The unspoken moral dilemma of socialists

Dude you're turning circles

On the contrary, you are.

I have a pretty consistent and well defined position.

I see you guys trying to fling everything at it trying to see what sticks. 90% of the shit you guys are flinging displays a lack of understanding on what I am advocating for.
 
WWII was Liberty stopping us from speaking German or Japanese.....:lol:

Okay, I am not talking to Owebo about this anymore, since most of what he says makes no sense whatsoever.
 
It goes to money, work and property family school food , you know everything.

So you are under the impression that without the state, no one would have a family, a job, an education, or property?

You really would be that helpless without the US federal government? Lol.

Chaos cause I'll come take yours or you mine and I'll have to take action and we have war. Chaos

Do you acknowledge this dillema exists on a large scale between states?

What do you think WW2 was?

Also the whole point in my ideology is that the good guys will outnumber the thugs, or at least have more advanced military technology and organization on the side of the good guys.
What exactly is this ideology? The one where you want free people in charge of free people so free people are free.....
 
It goes to money, work and property family school food , you know everything.

So you are under the impression that without the state, no one would have a family, a job, an education, or property?

You really would be that helpless without the US federal government? Lol.

Chaos cause I'll come take yours or you mine and I'll have to take action and we have war. Chaos

Do you acknowledge this dillema exists on a large scale between states?

What do you think WW2 was?

Also the whole point in my ideology is that the good guys will outnumber the thugs, or at least have more advanced military technology and organization on the side of the good guys.
Not without agreement with my neighbors and my enemies I have no Liberty, so I need others to do what I can't then it has to be organized somehow. Who controls all the chaos?
 
It goes to money, work and property family school food , you know everything.

So you are under the impression that without the state, no one would have a family, a job, an education, or property?

You really would be that helpless without the US federal government? Lol.

Chaos cause I'll come take yours or you mine and I'll have to take action and we have war. Chaos

Do you acknowledge this dillema exists on a large scale between states?

What do you think WW2 was?

Also the whole point in my ideology is that the good guys will outnumber the thugs, or at least have more advanced military technology and organization on the side of the good guys.
No without agreement with my neighbors and my enemies I have no Liberty, so I need others to do what I can't then it has to be organized somehow. Who controls all the chaos?
Free people in charge of free people do...duh.....:lol:
 
No without agreement with my neighbors and my enemies I have no Liberty, so I need others to do what I can't then it has to be organized somehow. Who controls all the chaos?

No rulers. Only fascist ***** believe they are helpless without electing an overlord.

Organization is fine. The militia operates on the principal of self defense. Anyone who uses aggression is met with aggression.

Violence begets violence. This is common sense.

And what is this about you and your neighbors being enemies? You have a dispute or something? Your neighbor spontaneously turns into a street thug?

You are letting your imagination run wild. Come back to reality mate.

BTW, I highlighted some buzzwords in your post. This kind of entitled and helpless attitude is why we need to force people into a situation in which they have to be self-reliant, self-sufficient, and accountable.

Freedom takes responsibility. Sorry that is hard for you to get behind.
 
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No without agreement with my neighbors and my enemies I have no Liberty, so I need others to do what I can't then it has to be organized somehow. Who controls all the chaos?

No rulers. Only fascist ***** believe they are helpless without electing an overlord.

Organization is fine. The militia operates on the principal of self defense. Anyone who uses aggression is met with aggression.

Violence begets violence. This is common sense.

And what is this about you and your neighbors being enemies? You have a dispute or something? Your neighbor spontaneously turns into a street thug?

You are letting your imagination run wild. Come back to reality mate.
The militia with no overlord....err..leader....huh.....
 
Well lets get past the Government GIVEN liberties. Then lets hear about the FREEDOM. The simple fact that Government is supposed to HOLD your liberty in check is a problem. The idea is for you to have the complete spectrum of personal liberty with NO interference from government That is FREEDOM. Liberal is Not even close to a correct description of the people it is supposed to describe. Moreover socialist is not even a REAL economic model. Dictatorship is the model of a socialist society. A modified Monarchy with a Group of ruling class dictators that take what they wish from society and distribute what they do not take for themselves to whom they choose. Easy to follow just read Animal Farm, [( assuming you are able to read and comprehend) something todays schools reject as counterproductive] it is the same historical story for all of time. SO as Freedom is NOT given by governments, and liberty is the ability to ACT on ones FREEDOMS. Neither of which rely on governments permission but of your actual ability to carry out the action itself Where does that leave government unless it is controlled BY the holders of the FREEDOMS as it should be. Governments purpose is NOT to "level the playing field", it is to assure no one blocks, or takes control OF the playing field.
 
I knew it was about time before I got a *libertarian to relieve me.
 
Governments purpose is NOT to "level the playing field", it is to assure no one blocks, or takes control OF the playing field.

That is not government. That is military.

The belief that the government protects people by instituting laws and documents is nonsense.

Force is what has always maintained order, and is what always will maintain order.

Anarchists believe in separating force from government. (force and government create the state) Some reject force altogether, although I disagree with that notion.

With modern libertarians and those scene kid minarchists , the traditional belief that a common protection force is anarchist has been devalued.

The Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine defended people. It was anarchist. It did nothing other than help communities defend themselves against both western liberal government and Soviet communism, so they could be free and practice voluntary organization.
 
Well lets get past the Government GIVEN liberties. Then lets hear about the FREEDOM. The simple fact that Government is supposed to HOLD your liberty in check is a problem. The idea is for you to have the complete spectrum of personal liberty with NO interference from government That is FREEDOM. Liberal is Not even close to a correct description of the people it is supposed to describe. Moreover socialist is not even a REAL economic model. Dictatorship is the model of a socialist society. A modified Monarchy with a Group of ruling class dictators that take what they wish from society and distribute what they do not take for themselves to whom they choose. Easy to follow just read Animal Farm, [( assuming you are able to read and comprehend) something todays schools reject as counterproductive] it is the same historical story for all of time. SO as Freedom is NOT given by governments, and liberty is the ability to ACT on ones FREEDOMS. Neither of which rely on governments permission but of your actual ability to carry out the action itself Where does that leave government unless it is controlled BY the holders of the FREEDOMS as it should be. Governments purpose is NOT to "level the playing field", it is to assure no one blocks, or takes control OF the playing field.
No you can't have people in constant dependence to tear down the village everyone must do something for all others in the village. It's where the Democratic Party fails, they love dependence
 
No you can't have people in constant dependence to tear down the village everyone must do something for all others in the village. It's where the Democratic Party fails, they love dependence

Brother...

You can't start flailing on dependence, when you were just ranting about how you could not survive without states and rulers.

The highlighted sounds like collectivist communism too.
 
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Governments purpose is NOT to "level the playing field", it is to assure no one blocks, or takes control OF the playing field.

That is not government. That is military.

The belief that the government protects people by instituting laws and documents is nonsense.

Force is what has always maintained order, and is what always will maintain order.

Anarchists believe in separating force from government. (force and government create the state) Some reject force altogether, although I disagree with that notion.

With modern libertarians and those scene kid minarchists , the traditional belief that a common protection force is anarchist has been devalued.

The Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine defended people. It was anarchist. It did nothing other than help communities defend themselves against both western liberal government and Soviet communism, so they could be free and practice voluntary organization.
Dude you're all over the fking place first you agree governance then you don't. There is always.....always the need for leadership. You have no military without. So you're screwy

It again is how we got a constitution
 
Dude you're all over the fking place

No.

The issue is that I tell you something and you do not pay attention, so I have to end up repeating what I had previously said.

first you agree governance then you don't.

My position has been consistent.

Where did I explicitly state "I do not agree with governance?"

There is always.....always the need for leadership.

As I said earlier, I believe in leaders and not rulers

Do you know the difference between a leader and a ruler?

A leader guides and inspires. A ruler controls and conditions.

You have no military without.

Without leadership, you are correct, but I believe in leadership.

Nestor Mahkno led the Revolutionary Army of Ukraine, and they did not try to control or condition anyone. They just fought the Soviets and White Army.
 
No you can't have people in constant dependence to tear down the village everyone must do something for all others in the village. It's where the Democratic Party fails, they love dependence

Brother...

You can't start flailing on dependence, when you were just ranting about how you could not survive without states and rulers.

The highlighted sounds like collectivist communism too.
What? LOL. People who don't participate in village are weights that bring down the village. Hear of Chicago Detroit Ferguson Baltimore etc. ? Take your state and cram it up your butt. You have no fking clue about society and capitalism
 
People who don't participate in village are weights that bring down the village.

Only when you adopt a collectivist attitude. The concept of the village itself is collectivist.

This sounds so much like the fascist creed "All for the state! Nothing against the state!"


Take your state and cram it up your butt.

Incredibly daft.

You keep arguing for statism and outcrying statism at the same time. No wonder you are confused.

Let me explain this very clearly to you - I oppose the state, which is an organized political community that controls a population within a set of abstract borders.

You support taxation. You support the constitution. You support the state.
 
Dude you're all over the fking place

No.

The issue is that I tell you something and you do not pay attention, so I have to end up repeating what I had previously said.

first you agree governance then you don't.

My position has been consistent.

Where did I explicitly state "I do not agree with governance?"

There is always.....always the need for leadership.

As I said earlier, I believe in leaders and not rulers

Do you know the difference between a leader and a ruler?

A leader guides and inspires. A ruler controls and conditions.

You have no military without.

Without leadership, you are correct, but I believe in leadership.

Nestor Mahkno led the Revolutionary Army of Ukraine, and they did not try to control or condition anyone. They just fought the Soviets and White Army.
Who the fk you talking to? You're a kook, admit it. Can you go round in circles? Yep, you're lapping yourself
 
Who the fk you talking to? You're a kook, admit it. Can you go round in circles? Yep, you're lapping yourself

I believe the problem is that I am discussing advanced political science and philosophy, and it is just going over your head.

Let me be super clear about what my position is.

I believe that a large group of people should go around defending others against aggression. I believe there should be no established law or rulers.

That is all there is to it.
 

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