The unspoken moral dilemma of socialists

Well lets get past the Government GIVEN liberties. Then lets hear about the FREEDOM. The simple fact that Government is supposed to HOLD your liberty in check is a problem. The idea is for you to have the complete spectrum of personal liberty with NO interference from government That is FREEDOM. Liberal is Not even close to a correct description of the people it is supposed to describe. Moreover socialist is not even a REAL economic model. Dictatorship is the model of a socialist society. A modified Monarchy with a Group of ruling class dictators that take what they wish from society and distribute what they do not take for themselves to whom they choose. Easy to follow just read Animal Farm, [( assuming you are able to read and comprehend) something todays schools reject as counterproductive] it is the same historical story for all of time. SO as Freedom is NOT given by governments, and liberty is the ability to ACT on ones FREEDOMS. Neither of which rely on governments permission but of your actual ability to carry out the action itself Where does that leave government unless it is controlled BY the holders of the FREEDOMS as it should be. Governments purpose is NOT to "level the playing field", it is to assure no one blocks, or takes control OF the playing field.
Good post....but I question your idea of Liberty....Liberty is a construct of what freedoms a free people are willing to give up in order to protect other freedoms they hold important.....

Our government does indeed level the playing field....it makes sure life, liberty, and the pursuit of property are equally available TO all (not for all). Animal Farm is indeed a good read to demonstrate the preversion of this concept...Four legs good, two legs better....
 
Socialism everywhere but GOP world is defined as democratic...so that;s all crap. Anarchy is not a choice- totally unworkable like communism. Human nature.
 
Socialism is simple well regulated capitalism with a good safety net. Right now we have a pander to the rich GOP mess ongoing. The OP is garbage.
middle class people bust their asses to hand money over to lazy stay at home slobs who make babies and commit crime. That's the issue in America. nothing more nothing less.
 
Socialism everywhere but GOP world is defined as democratic...so that;s all crap. Anarchy is not a choice- totally unworkable like communism. Human nature.
the GOP is no different than the Democrats. they both believe in taxes for services outside those intended. Welfare, was never part of taxes. The fact we ask nothing from those who receive said welfare drags society into the tank. It is indeed the Democrats and their followers who believe in something for nothing and fk those who provide the something. Just remember that.
 
Socialism is simple well regulated capitalism with a good safety net. Right now we have a pander to the rich GOP mess ongoing. The OP is garbage.
middle class people bust their asses to hand money over to lazy stay at home slobs who make babies and commit crime. That's the issue in America. nothing more nothing less.
You're a perfect (80% chance racist) dupe of the greedy idiot GOP...After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVER, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole? :cuckoo:

I know- a tax cut for the rich!- The big orange idiot.
 
Socialism everywhere but GOP world is defined as democratic...so that;s all crap. Anarchy is not a choice- totally unworkable like communism. Human nature.
the GOP is no different than the Democrats. they both believe in taxes for services outside those intended. Welfare, was never part of taxes. The fact we ask nothing from those who receive said welfare drags society into the tank. It is indeed the Democrats and their followers who believe in something for nothing and fk those who provide the something. Just remember that.
You have no idea what welfare is.They have to prove they're looking for work, are screened for drugs, work for benefits at minimum wage, all kinds of meetings and counseling. Idiot. No one wants to be on welfare. Thanks for wrecking the middle class and the country, New BS GOP.
 
Socialism is simple well regulated capitalism with a good safety net. Right now we have a pander to the rich GOP mess ongoing. The OP is garbage.
middle class people bust their asses to hand money over to lazy stay at home slobs who make babies and commit crime. That's the issue in America. nothing more nothing less.
You're a perfect (80% chance racist) dupe of the greedy idiot GOP...After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVER, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole? :cuckoo:

I know- a tax cut for the rich!- The big orange idiot.
I gave you exactly what was wrong and you go right back at the rich. What the fk is wrong with you. The middle class is paying for people who aren't expected to give back to their own society and you're ok with that. That my friend is the problem. has nothing to do with the .01%ers.
 
Socialism everywhere but GOP world is defined as democratic...so that;s all crap. Anarchy is not a choice- totally unworkable like communism. Human nature.
the GOP is no different than the Democrats. they both believe in taxes for services outside those intended. Welfare, was never part of taxes. The fact we ask nothing from those who receive said welfare drags society into the tank. It is indeed the Democrats and their followers who believe in something for nothing and fk those who provide the something. Just remember that.
You have no idea what welfare is.They have to prove they're looking for work, are screened for drugs, work for benefits at minimum wage, all kinds of meetings and counseling. Idiot. No one wants to be on welfare. Thanks for wrecking the middle class and the country, New BS GOP.
oh bullshit. Dude, i had a sister in law on it. Don't feed me that lefturd line.

I know, I know, standard protocol.

BTW, why are you afraid to ask the welfare tankers for an effort?
 
Socialism everywhere but GOP world is defined as democratic...so that;s all crap. Anarchy is not a choice- totally unworkable like communism. Human nature.
the GOP is no different than the Democrats. they both believe in taxes for services outside those intended. Welfare, was never part of taxes. The fact we ask nothing from those who receive said welfare drags society into the tank. It is indeed the Democrats and their followers who believe in something for nothing and fk those who provide the something. Just remember that.
You have no idea what welfare is.They have to prove they're looking for work, are screened for drugs, work for benefits at minimum wage, all kinds of meetings and counseling. Idiot. No one wants to be on welfare. Thanks for wrecking the middle class and the country, New BS GOP.
oh bullshit. Dude, i had a sister in law on it. Don't feed me that lefturd line.

I know, I know, standard protocol.
That's the way it is in NY. You must live in a dumbass red state with stupid GOP budget cuts.
 
Socialism everywhere but GOP world is defined as democratic...so that;s all crap. Anarchy is not a choice- totally unworkable like communism. Human nature.
the GOP is no different than the Democrats. they both believe in taxes for services outside those intended. Welfare, was never part of taxes. The fact we ask nothing from those who receive said welfare drags society into the tank. It is indeed the Democrats and their followers who believe in something for nothing and fk those who provide the something. Just remember that.
You have no idea what welfare is.They have to prove they're looking for work, are screened for drugs, work for benefits at minimum wage, all kinds of meetings and counseling. Idiot. No one wants to be on welfare. Thanks for wrecking the middle class and the country, New BS GOP.
oh bullshit. Dude, i had a sister in law on it. Don't feed me that lefturd line.

I know, I know, standard protocol.
That's the way it is in NY. You must live in a dumbass red state with stupid GOP budget cuts.
I live in Chicago, in one of the worst welfare states in the country. People on welfare are not required to look for work. that's lefturd protocols in attempt to deflect. haahahahahaahahaha. Dude post up a link with information in it to make your point valid. Ok? I'll wait for the crickets.
 
Not a bro. Don't drink and here is exactly what I described:
Capitalism
an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth. An economic system featuring the private ownership of business wealth and the free and unfettered operation of trade markets.

Dumbass, I know quite well what capitalism is, which is exactly why understand it's limitations and you do not.

I also know that "where you are" there is plenty of government run laws, regulations, enforcement, judicial system, infrastructure, entitlements, education etc. etc. etc. etc. that are missing in your fantastical representation of how "where you are" actually manages to function. It is far from "pure capitalism" that is being discussed.
 
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Socialism everywhere but GOP world is defined as democratic...so that;s all crap. Anarchy is not a choice- totally unworkable like communism. Human nature.
the GOP is no different than the Democrats. they both believe in taxes for services outside those intended. Welfare, was never part of taxes. The fact we ask nothing from those who receive said welfare drags society into the tank. It is indeed the Democrats and their followers who believe in something for nothing and fk those who provide the something. Just remember that.
You have no idea what welfare is.They have to prove they're looking for work, are screened for drugs, work for benefits at minimum wage, all kinds of meetings and counseling. Idiot. No one wants to be on welfare. Thanks for wrecking the middle class and the country, New BS GOP.
oh bullshit. Dude, i had a sister in law on it. Don't feed me that lefturd line.

I know, I know, standard protocol.
That's the way it is in NY. You must live in a dumbass red state with stupid GOP budget cuts.
I live in Chicago, in one of the worst welfare states in the country. People on welfare are not required to look for work. that's lefturd protocols in attempt to deflect. haahahahahaahahaha. Dude post up a link with information in it to make your point valid. Ok? I'll wait for the crickets.
If they're not disabled, they are. Blaming our woes on the poor is ridiculous after 35 years of GOP pander to the rich policies AND a corrupt GOP world depression. We basically have a flat tax now, despite your propaganda, dupe, and almost all the new wealth stays with the rich. Great job, New BS GOP and silly hater dupes. Get the hell out of the way of reform.

I know, a tax cut for the rich- Big Orange Idiot.
 
Here franco,

http://www.princeton.edu/futureofchildren/publications/docs/07_01_02.pdf

"Abstract
The best known of the nation’s welfare programs, Aid to Families with Dependent
Children (AFDC), has from its inception reflected a tension between the desire to support
children in poor, lone-parent families and the belief that parents should be held
responsible for providing for themselves and their children. Against that backdrop,
this article reviews the history of the AFDC program and traces the emergence of policies
and programs intended to encourage employment of the parents (almost exclusively
mothers) who receive benefits. The article examines in detail the Work Incentive
Program (WIN) launched in 1967 and the Family Support Act of 1988, comparing
these to each other and to the outlines of welfare reform signed into law in 1996. The
article emphasizes the importance of sustained attention to the implementation of
policy goals in concrete programs and shows that the merits of those early programs
have not been fully tested because they were never funded or implemented at the scale
intended. The article also outlines ways in which welfare-to-work programs can be used
to assist children as well as parents, and urges that children’s well-being remain the
core purpose of welfare policy."

You see, the policy was updated to make a welfare to work work. but no one monitors it. D'OH. Why not is the next question. But read the document, good stuff.
 
the GOP is no different than the Democrats. they both believe in taxes for services outside those intended. Welfare, was never part of taxes. The fact we ask nothing from those who receive said welfare drags society into the tank. It is indeed the Democrats and their followers who believe in something for nothing and fk those who provide the something. Just remember that.
You have no idea what welfare is.They have to prove they're looking for work, are screened for drugs, work for benefits at minimum wage, all kinds of meetings and counseling. Idiot. No one wants to be on welfare. Thanks for wrecking the middle class and the country, New BS GOP.
oh bullshit. Dude, i had a sister in law on it. Don't feed me that lefturd line.

I know, I know, standard protocol.
That's the way it is in NY. You must live in a dumbass red state with stupid GOP budget cuts.
I live in Chicago, in one of the worst welfare states in the country. People on welfare are not required to look for work. that's lefturd protocols in attempt to deflect. haahahahahaahahaha. Dude post up a link with information in it to make your point valid. Ok? I'll wait for the crickets.
If they're not disabled, they are. Blaming our woes on the poor is ridiculous after 35 years of GOP pander to the rich policies AND a corrupt GOP world depression. We basically have a flat tax now, despite your propaganda, dupe, and almost all the new wealth stays with the rich. Great job, New BS GOP and silly hater dupes. Get the hell out of the way of reform.

I know, a tax cut for the rich- Big Orange Idiot.
It is the poor that commit most crime. statistics don't lie.

The Poverty-Crime Connection

"High Crime Rates Among Poor: Why
It is a fact that neighborhoods where the poor are concentrated are more prone to high crime rates, and poor residents are the most common victims of crimes. Beyond a simplistic answer of "poor people want/need more stuff so they have to take it," what are other, more researched answers? Oscar Newman offered several in "Creating Defensible Space" (U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, 1996, $15):#• A one-parent household headed by a female is more vulnerable to criminal attack.
• Families with only one adult present are less able to control their teenage children.
• Young teenage mothers are often victimized by their boyfriends.
• The criminal activity by the poor is tolerated, if not condoned, among the poor.
• The poor, and particularly the poor members of racial minorities, are unable to demand as much police protection.
• Committing crimes against residents in rundown and "ghetto" areas requires minimal skill and risk."
 
No, it's not fascism...it's chaos and lawlessness.

Sorry, I misread this post earlier.

My ideology does not = chaos. That is just propaganda.

I believe in rules. I believe in order. I believe in organization. I believe in peace..

Most of all, I believe in killing violent thugs. That is including the ones in power within the framework of the state.

Rules? Who formalizes and enforces the rules? What is the point of rules if people can elect to no follow them.

You can "believe in them" all you want, but they cannot function in your elective anarchy.
 
Here franco,

http://www.princeton.edu/futureofchildren/publications/docs/07_01_02.pdf

"Abstract
The best known of the nation’s welfare programs, Aid to Families with Dependent
Children (AFDC), has from its inception reflected a tension between the desire to support
children in poor, lone-parent families and the belief that parents should be held
responsible for providing for themselves and their children. Against that backdrop,
this article reviews the history of the AFDC program and traces the emergence of policies
and programs intended to encourage employment of the parents (almost exclusively
mothers) who receive benefits. The article examines in detail the Work Incentive
Program (WIN) launched in 1967 and the Family Support Act of 1988, comparing
these to each other and to the outlines of welfare reform signed into law in 1996. The
article emphasizes the importance of sustained attention to the implementation of
policy goals in concrete programs and shows that the merits of those early programs
have not been fully tested because they were never funded or implemented at the scale
intended. The article also outlines ways in which welfare-to-work programs can be used
to assist children as well as parents, and urges that children’s well-being remain the
core purpose of welfare policy."

You see, the policy was updated to make a welfare to work work. but no one monitors it. D'OH. Why not is the next question. But read the document, good stuff.
Not here. How bout a living wage and tax cuts that could bring back the middle class, DEMAND, and the country. Vote DEM, dupe. Later. Stop obsessing on blacks. lol
 
No, it's not fascism...it's chaos and lawlessness.

Sorry, I misread this post earlier.

My ideology does not = chaos. That is just propaganda.

I believe in rules. I believe in order. I believe in organization. I believe in peace..

Most of all, I believe in killing violent thugs. That is including the ones in power within the framework of the state.

Rules? Who formalizes and enforces the rules? What is the point of rules if people can elect to no follow them.

You can "believe in them" all you want, but they cannot function in your elective anarchy.
the dude is a nut job and a half. he doesn't believe in leaders and rules and then claims he agrees with governance. Well, Dah, how can there be a governance without rules and a leadre? He lives in a cyclical world
 
Here franco,

http://www.princeton.edu/futureofchildren/publications/docs/07_01_02.pdf

"Abstract
The best known of the nation’s welfare programs, Aid to Families with Dependent
Children (AFDC), has from its inception reflected a tension between the desire to support
children in poor, lone-parent families and the belief that parents should be held
responsible for providing for themselves and their children. Against that backdrop,
this article reviews the history of the AFDC program and traces the emergence of policies
and programs intended to encourage employment of the parents (almost exclusively
mothers) who receive benefits. The article examines in detail the Work Incentive
Program (WIN) launched in 1967 and the Family Support Act of 1988, comparing
these to each other and to the outlines of welfare reform signed into law in 1996. The
article emphasizes the importance of sustained attention to the implementation of
policy goals in concrete programs and shows that the merits of those early programs
have not been fully tested because they were never funded or implemented at the scale
intended. The article also outlines ways in which welfare-to-work programs can be used
to assist children as well as parents, and urges that children’s well-being remain the
core purpose of welfare policy."

You see, the policy was updated to make a welfare to work work. but no one monitors it. D'OH. Why not is the next question. But read the document, good stuff.
Not here. How bout a living wage and tax cuts that could bring back the middle class, DEMAND, and the country. Vote DEM, dupe. Later. Stop obsessing on blacks. lol
Dems don't want poverty fixed, where have you been? OMG. duped I guess. They love low income voters, and will keep them low income to get their votes. It works. Can you believe it? Someone not expected to work voting for someone who doesn't want them to work. Wow, what a country! Put their sorry asses out on the street to pick up and clean up our cities for their money, let's get them off their lazy asses and working. Giving back for the freebies. But alas, you don't want them violated like that cause you feel so sorry for them. Right? That is the lefturd way. Keep them suppressed is the best democrat idea ever created back in the 60s.

BTW, the typical tactic of the left is to call out racist to anyone like me mentioning the welfarers work to receive their money. Hilarious.
 
Here franco,

http://www.princeton.edu/futureofchildren/publications/docs/07_01_02.pdf

"Abstract
The best known of the nation’s welfare programs, Aid to Families with Dependent
Children (AFDC), has from its inception reflected a tension between the desire to support
children in poor, lone-parent families and the belief that parents should be held
responsible for providing for themselves and their children. Against that backdrop,
this article reviews the history of the AFDC program and traces the emergence of policies
and programs intended to encourage employment of the parents (almost exclusively
mothers) who receive benefits. The article examines in detail the Work Incentive
Program (WIN) launched in 1967 and the Family Support Act of 1988, comparing
these to each other and to the outlines of welfare reform signed into law in 1996. The
article emphasizes the importance of sustained attention to the implementation of
policy goals in concrete programs and shows that the merits of those early programs
have not been fully tested because they were never funded or implemented at the scale
intended. The article also outlines ways in which welfare-to-work programs can be used
to assist children as well as parents, and urges that children’s well-being remain the
core purpose of welfare policy."

You see, the policy was updated to make a welfare to work work. but no one monitors it. D'OH. Why not is the next question. But read the document, good stuff.
Not here. How bout a living wage and tax cuts that could bring back the middle class, DEMAND, and the country. Vote DEM, dupe. Later. Stop obsessing on blacks. lol
and there it is the racist comment. hahahahahahaha it is the only response. You all hate facts. FACT, FACT, FACT.
 
Saying the word black does not make one a racist. If he had said stop obsessing about cantaloupes, does that mean he has a bias against cantaloupes? The word is so over used it has lost any impact. Everyone is a racist now.
Nobody hates facts facts facts, they just think your wrong wrong wrong.
 

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