Those kids ain't hunting a bear with a switch...no surprise since their friends are dead...

[OKTexas]

A few weeks back I wrote:

I do fear the only other thing, besides what I've described above, that will move Congress members irrevocably out of the political quagmire into which they've set themselves is the 2018 plebiscite outcome sending a clear message that a material share of the citizenry's GOP has abandoned the NRA.

Another question is whether GOP (would-be) elected office holders will pull on the NRA the same "lip service"/bait and switch stunt it pulls with the general electorate. How might they do so? Simply toe the line until it's too late for incumbents to be "primaried" in advance of the 2018 general election. That is, after all, the only thing GOP incumbents have to fear from the NRA. After that, they can quickly pass whatever gun control they can come up with and watch for two years as the NRA tries to convince people that whatever got passed should be repealed. That's two years to put the NRA on the defensive, two years to watch the NRA challenge the legislation in the SCOTUS (a really risky gambit, especially if it comes before 2020, because Dems and Progressive Indies have a material headcount advantage), etc.

My conservative friends are finally catching on to what I'd alluded to when I wrote those remarks. Why it took them so long to do so is beyond me. They all have kids and they know how "fired up" kids behave.

Speaking with a conservative yesterday, I finally heard from her that this weekend's March for Life rally strongly indicated to her that the students who've taken ownership of the gun control debate are the very opposite of all hat and no cattle. On the contrary, seeing for herself the abundance of voter registration booths and people with voter registration forms, etc., she was as surprised as if sheep had bit her.

For my friend, it was an "oh, sh*t, these kids are serious" moment. She in turn conceded what she'd not before: Democrats have a damn fine chance of obtaining not just a change in the balance of Congressional power, but a dramatic change, that of obtaining a supermajority in at least one chamber. She's finally realizing that the two-pronged impetus of utter disdain for Trump (without regard to what party he belongs) and the gun issue and its boost in liberal leaning millennial voter registrations will likely spell doom for the GOP's status in Congress.

I don't know about doom for the GOP--I don't think enough people in the country would be single issue voters over guns. But I DO agree with you that anyone running for office is going to have to keep a very serious chunk of their constituency in mind from now on. For so long, even people who really want gun control legislation have not made their voices heard. Now they are.

Bull, the last time commiecrats ran on gun control they got the asses handed to them. Bring it on.


.

That was long ago and far away, and that old threat ain't gonna work anymore.

I think you're underestimating Americans disdain for legal restrictions on people who have done nothing wrong. Your totalitarian dreams still won't fly.


.

 

[OldLady]

...
I'm very glad our kids are learning to be tolerant of other kids who are different.

...

I agree with a lot of things you mention ... But this is a sticking point.

Kids are not becoming more tolerant the way you suggest.
They are becoming more compliant with your particular desires and the programmed expectations.

As an example ... The kids protesting are not tolerant of those they oppose ... They are simply compliant with the message people like you support.

.

The kids protesting are not tolerant of those they oppose .
That takes skill and practice. Years of practice.

But I wasn't speaking of political tolerance. I was speaking of social tolerance.

 

[OldLady]

Why don’t people teach their kids to be inclusive and to not bully! The common denominator in many school shootings is that the kid felt isolated, ridiculed, and bullied. Is it easier to grab guns than it is to parent? Why don’t we try going back to raising children in a two parent household?

Maybe we need to do all of the above, including controlling who has lethal weapons and which lethal weapons are legal.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

I can only speak for myself and the liberals I know, but none of us are extremists, certainly not communists. Anytime someone pulls out that argument I immediately place a tinfoil hat on their head.

Why would you put a mental tinfoil hat on an idea which has merit? You cannot find a correlation between socialist principles and the modern US left?
Is modern Europe not lined with social democracies? Are those not based upon socialist ideals? Where then is the drastic leap? As for Communism, didn't Marx refer to it as perfected socialism? These are all shades of the same color pallet.

I am also a teacher, and a mother, and I know what goes on in schools. Some teachers are liberal; a lot are not. It is not at all what the propagandists have told you.

I know that certain subjects (hard science and mathematics) may be exempt, however when we delve into the social sciences (social studies) and history there is a wide berth which may be taken. I do realize that at the K-12 level teachers are often state mandated to teach certain topics (teaching plan/program). This does not preclude any instructor from 'steering' discussion a certain way.

 

[BlackSand]

The kids protesting are not tolerant of those they oppose .
That takes skill and practice. Years of practice.

But I wasn't speaking of political tolerance. I was speaking of social tolerance.

Kids aren't as socially tolerant as it looks at times.
They have benefitted were we couldn't have though.

They are simply burned out on social dogma.
They still have their views ... They have their prejudices ... They have simply realized what "tolerance" is ... Compliance with a message.

I am happy for them ... They are not burdened with the garbage.
I am just suggesting they see it all for what it is (at least the smart ones do).

.

 

[OldLady]

I can only speak for myself and the liberals I know, but none of us are extremists, certainly not communists. Anytime someone pulls out that argument I immediately place a tinfoil hat on their head.

Why would you put a mental tinfoil hat on an idea which has merit? You cannot find a correlation between socialist principles and the modern US left?
Is modern Europe not lined with social democracies? Are those not based upon socialist ideals? Where then is the drastic leap? As for Communism, didn't Marx refer to it as perfected socialism? These are all shades of the same color pallet.

I am also a teacher, and a mother, and I know what goes on in schools. Some teachers are liberal; a lot are not. It is not at all what the propagandists have told you.

I know that certain subjects (hard science and mathematics) may be exempt, however when we delve into the social sciences (social studies) and history there is a wide berth which may be taken. I do realize that at the K-12 level teachers are often state mandated to teach certain topics (teaching plan/program). This does not preclude any instructor from 'steering' discussion a certain way.

I have to go, but even if I didn't, I don't think you and I can take this discussion much further.
You are seeing a commie behind every tree. I have a healthy disrespect for communist dictatorships and I have never seen one be successful in the long term.

 

[WillowTree]

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The protest crowds were hugely - exaggerated. That, along with the propensity of paying crowd sourcing agencies to have thousands show up would seem like this protest kind of bombed out.

I hope the democrats run on gun control and open borders. Then the GOP has nothing to worry about.

 

[BlackSand]

View attachment 184658

What do you expect ... She's a child ...

.

 

[Pogo]

The protest crowds were hugely - exaggerated. That, along with the propensity of paying crowd sourcing agencies to have thousands show up would seem like this protest kind of bombed out.

I hope the democrats run on gun control and open borders. Then the GOP has nothing to worry about.

Yeah 200,000 people is nothing. With an AR-15 you could shoot 'em ALL in the face.

See that Bo boedicca --- this ^^ is the caliber of wig-wag I would have expected to use the Ratings Fallacy. Consider your company. You're better than that.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

I can only speak for myself and the liberals I know, but none of us are extremists, certainly not communists. Anytime someone pulls out that argument I immediately place a tinfoil hat on their head.

Why would you put a mental tinfoil hat on an idea which has merit? You cannot find a correlation between socialist principles and the modern US left?
Is modern Europe not lined with social democracies? Are those not based upon socialist ideals? Where then is the drastic leap? As for Communism, didn't Marx refer to it as perfected socialism? These are all shades of the same color pallet.

I am also a teacher, and a mother, and I know what goes on in schools. Some teachers are liberal; a lot are not. It is not at all what the propagandists have told you.

I know that certain subjects (hard science and mathematics) may be exempt, however when we delve into the social sciences (social studies) and history there is a wide berth which may be taken. I do realize that at the K-12 level teachers are often state mandated to teach certain topics (teaching plan/program). This does not preclude any instructor from 'steering' discussion a certain way.

I have to go, but even if I didn't, I don't think you and I can take this discussion much further.
You are seeing a commie behind every tree. I have a healthy disrespect for communist dictatorships and I have never seen one be successful in the long term.

There is nothing wrong with your feelings but the US adopted many communist principles many years ago. We are already socialist in many respects. We are just moving further left.
http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

I can only speak for myself and the liberals I know, but none of us are extremists, certainly not communists. Anytime someone pulls out that argument I immediately place a tinfoil hat on their head.

Why would you put a mental tinfoil hat on an idea which has merit? You cannot find a correlation between socialist principles and the modern US left?
Is modern Europe not lined with social democracies? Are those not based upon socialist ideals? Where then is the drastic leap? As for Communism, didn't Marx refer to it as perfected socialism? These are all shades of the same color pallet.

I am also a teacher, and a mother, and I know what goes on in schools. Some teachers are liberal; a lot are not. It is not at all what the propagandists have told you.

I know that certain subjects (hard science and mathematics) may be exempt, however when we delve into the social sciences (social studies) and history there is a wide berth which may be taken. I do realize that at the K-12 level teachers are often state mandated to teach certain topics (teaching plan/program). This does not preclude any instructor from 'steering' discussion a certain way.

I have to go, but even if I didn't, I don't think you and I can take this discussion much further.
You are seeing a commie behind every tree. I have a healthy disrespect for communist dictatorships and I have never seen one be successful in the long term.

There is nothing wrong with your feelings but the US adopted many communist principles many years ago. We are already socialist in many respects. We are just moving further left.
http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

I can only speak for myself and the liberals I know, but none of us are extremists, certainly not communists. Anytime someone pulls out that argument I immediately place a tinfoil hat on their head.

Why would you put a mental tinfoil hat on an idea which has merit? You cannot find a correlation between socialist principles and the modern US left?
Is modern Europe not lined with social democracies? Are those not based upon socialist ideals? Where then is the drastic leap? As for Communism, didn't Marx refer to it as perfected socialism? These are all shades of the same color pallet.

I am also a teacher, and a mother, and I know what goes on in schools. Some teachers are liberal; a lot are not. It is not at all what the propagandists have told you.

I know that certain subjects (hard science and mathematics) may be exempt, however when we delve into the social sciences (social studies) and history there is a wide berth which may be taken. I do realize that at the K-12 level teachers are often state mandated to teach certain topics (teaching plan/program). This does not preclude any instructor from 'steering' discussion a certain way.

I have to go, but even if I didn't, I don't think you and I can take this discussion much further.
You are seeing a commie behind every tree. I have a healthy disrespect for communist dictatorships and I have never seen one be successful in the long term.

There is nothing wrong with your feelings but the US adopted many communist principles many years ago. We are already socialist in many respects. We are just moving further left.
http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

I can only speak for myself and the liberals I know, but none of us are extremists, certainly not communists. Anytime someone pulls out that argument I immediately place a tinfoil hat on their head.

Why would you put a mental tinfoil hat on an idea which has merit? You cannot find a correlation between socialist principles and the modern US left?
Is modern Europe not lined with social democracies? Are those not based upon socialist ideals? Where then is the drastic leap? As for Communism, didn't Marx refer to it as perfected socialism? These are all shades of the same color pallet.

I am also a teacher, and a mother, and I know what goes on in schools. Some teachers are liberal; a lot are not. It is not at all what the propagandists have told you.

I know that certain subjects (hard science and mathematics) may be exempt, however when we delve into the social sciences (social studies) and history there is a wide berth which may be taken. I do realize that at the K-12 level teachers are often state mandated to teach certain topics (teaching plan/program). This does not preclude any instructor from 'steering' discussion a certain way.

I have to go, but even if I didn't, I don't think you and I can take this discussion much further.
You are seeing a commie behind every tree. I have a healthy disrespect for communist dictatorships and I have never seen one be successful in the long term.

There is nothing wrong with your feelings but the US adopted many communist principles many years ago. We are already socialist in many respects. We are just moving further left.
http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

I can only speak for myself and the liberals I know, but none of us are extremists, certainly not communists. Anytime someone pulls out that argument I immediately place a tinfoil hat on their head.

Why would you put a mental tinfoil hat on an idea which has merit? You cannot find a correlation between socialist principles and the modern US left?
Is modern Europe not lined with social democracies? Are those not based upon socialist ideals? Where then is the drastic leap? As for Communism, didn't Marx refer to it as perfected socialism? These are all shades of the same color pallet.

I am also a teacher, and a mother, and I know what goes on in schools. Some teachers are liberal; a lot are not. It is not at all what the propagandists have told you.

I know that certain subjects (hard science and mathematics) may be exempt, however when we delve into the social sciences (social studies) and history there is a wide berth which may be taken. I do realize that at the K-12 level teachers are often state mandated to teach certain topics (teaching plan/program). This does not preclude any instructor from 'steering' discussion a certain way.

I have to go, but even if I didn't, I don't think you and I can take this discussion much further.
You are seeing a commie behind every tree. I have a healthy disrespect for communist dictatorships and I have never seen one be successful in the long term.

There is nothing wrong with your feelings but the US adopted many communist principles many years ago. We are already socialist in many respects. We are just moving further left.
http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

I can only speak for myself and the liberals I know, but none of us are extremists, certainly not communists. Anytime someone pulls out that argument I immediately place a tinfoil hat on their head.

Why would you put a mental tinfoil hat on an idea which has merit? You cannot find a correlation between socialist principles and the modern US left?
Is modern Europe not lined with social democracies? Are those not based upon socialist ideals? Where then is the drastic leap? As for Communism, didn't Marx refer to it as perfected socialism? These are all shades of the same color pallet.

I am also a teacher, and a mother, and I know what goes on in schools. Some teachers are liberal; a lot are not. It is not at all what the propagandists have told you.

I know that certain subjects (hard science and mathematics) may be exempt, however when we delve into the social sciences (social studies) and history there is a wide berth which may be taken. I do realize that at the K-12 level teachers are often state mandated to teach certain topics (teaching plan/program). This does not preclude any instructor from 'steering' discussion a certain way.

I have to go, but even if I didn't, I don't think you and I can take this discussion much further.
You are seeing a commie behind every tree. I have a healthy disrespect for communist dictatorships and I have never seen one be successful in the long term.

There is nothing wrong with your feelings but the US adopted many communist principles many years ago. We are already socialist in many respects. We are just moving further left.
http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

 

[usmbguest5318]

Between the kids and Mueller, things are looking pretty grim for the GOP come November.
And they certainly deserve a spanking, after their groveling acceptance of the Orange Idiot.

I don't know about grim. All the predictions about the 2016 election were wrong. I think it is actually stiffening the resolve of a lot of Republicans who otherwise would skip the voting booth on election day.

That's not so, not even close. The predictions about the POTUS election's outcome is what was most noticeably errant, but that miss cannot be used as an extrapolative proxy for predicting, well, anything.

Why? Well because a key feature of publicly shared pre-election polls ("broad brush" polls) is that those polls are politics' survey equivalent to performing surgery with steak knife. The polling results that have the precision of scalpels and lasers don't make it into the public realm; those polls are the ones campaigns use to target their spending and messaging. That kind of very precise polling -- the stuff that identifies with really small margins of error whether, say, the north, south, east, west, center, etc. of a county or city is wherefrom a candidate, including national-level candidates, will draw votes -- is far too expensive to perform for the pollsters to do that work and then publish the results for free.

Also, POTUS-race pollsters didn't factor in the extent to which cynicism had pervaded the electorate. Prior to Trump's election, for instance, nobody would have

• Included a factor that accounts for voter's forbearance of inveterate paltering about anything and everything.
• Included a factor to account for a POTUS candidate's saying the things Trump did on the Access Hollywood bus and receive any material share of voter's forbearance after having done so.

Those are but two examples of what could have been "built into" the polls' methodologies, but that weren't. Quite simply, the polls were based on "traditional" pollee behavioral, emotional and cognitive traits/processes. Now one can say that it'll be the same voters in 2018, but that's only partly true. Some quantity of the kids who were in 2016 16-18 years-old will vote this fall. The big question too is whether the Parkland kids and their peers can push the 18-24 year-old voter turnout above it's "modern" 1964 high of just under 51%. (In recent years, the national average for voter turnout for that age cohort has been about 43%.)

2016 POTUS election polling mistakes notwithstanding, I'd expect that between then and now, "broad brush" pollsters have refined their methodologies so they won't be blindsided again.

I don't know about grim. All the predictions about the 2016 election were wrong. I think it is actually stiffening the resolve of a lot of Republicans who otherwise would skip the voting booth on election day.

Well, you're welcome to think that, and I respect that you do.

I don't think that. I think that voters -- Rep or Dem -- who are inclined to skip voting in the mid-term aren't even paying attention to politics beyond at the most cursory level. I think that for purely anecdotal reasons; the folks I've known who miss opportunities to vote are of the mind that, save for specific local measures about which they care, their vote won't change anything, so "why spend all that time in line waiting to vote." FWIW, my answer to that question is, "Because there's a great 'tailgate' party going on down the street, so you go have a drink or two and chat with your neighbors before heading home for the night. It kinda makes up for waiting in line."

 

[usmbguest5318]

The older I get, the more like Dad I get--he always took the pessimistic view when he really cared about something. LOL I'm sure he did it so he wouldn't be disappointed IF things didn't go his way.

When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.
-- Mark Twain​