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I'll. Look maybe not 50% but many many are not kids.View attachment 164037
Even McDonald's acknowledges that their business was intended for children.
Holding businesses that are created with the employment of kids & college students responsible for the poor choices people make in life is wrong. If you're in your mid to late 20's or higher & working for minimum wage you have no one to blame but yourself. You're poor choices should not result in a 10.00 Big Mac or 4 dollar fry.
Have you no idea that 50% of the employees are single parent women.
Still believing the myth it's an entry level job?
I presume mr high and mighty is sucking off his socialist VA SS Medicare benefits?
$15 in Seattle led to 10c in hamburger prices.
Do you just spew knees news and never research?
Sure it only increases hamburgers 10 cents, that's because places like McDonald's sells a thousand or more hamburgers a day, 800 fries, 1200 soft drinks and so on.
But Bert's hardware store doesn't sell 1,000 hammers a day. Bert has to increase his prices much more than McDonald's to pass on his losses.
And where did you get this figure that 50% of minimum wage workers are single parent women? Certainly not from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
. Not good to waist time in prison if going to be let back out on the street. I would rather a good candidate for rehabilitation get that education in order to cope upon release, and yes with a job skill to boot if possible. Ray, do you realize that to a bum in prison, it is punishment for him or her to get education then forced upon them, and to make them work on a job skill to boot while on the inside.. Ohhh the horror's it must be for a buck wild bum to then be forced to get educated, and then to learn a job skill instead of running around selling drugs and impregnating your daughters. Wake up Ray.And how do you propose we do that, by forcing employers to hire ex-cons?
I rented to ex-cons twice since I became a landlord almost 25 years ago. One almost burned down one of my houses to the ground. Over 80K in damages. My insurance company dropped my policies on all my rental units and I couldn't get insurance for 3 years. I had to use a state program during that time.
Another one was a remodeler who was locked up because of drugs. A very talented man who wanted to do some remodeling in his rental unit. He ripped down a wall, tore the plumbing out of the bathroom, went back on drugs and left it that way until I evicted him because of non-payment of rent. That was a pricy problem to fix.
So now because of experience, I won't rent to a convicted felon. They are nothing but problems I don't need in my life. I'm sure employers who gave jobs to convicted felons had the same results.
If I'm not mistaken, I have reiterated my position more than twice. Do you have some reason that your ideology cannot stand on its own merits?
I HAVE NOT AND DO NOT NOR HAVE I EVER ADVOCATED FORCING EMPLOYERS TO DO A DAMN THING
I currently have an idea floating around at the state level in Georgia to do away with early release of any prisoner in Georgia unless they undergo a rehabilitation program that includes, but is not limited to getting a GED, transferable job skills, and taking seminars in real life subject matter (like how to apply for a job, balance their checkbook, get a house / apartment, build up their credit rating, etc.)
Then I would advocate that the state give tax incentives for employers to give those people a second chance. The employer would, of course, have the advantage of hiring a bonded worker and the government would make good for any damages an employer might incur if that employee did any of what you are talking about. BUT, AT NO TIME WOULD ANY EMPLOYER BE REQUIRED TO HIRE SOMEONE WITH A CRIMINAL BACKGROUND.
That would be a failure too. We did that here in Ohio. In fact one of the places I deliver too participated in the program. They were getting money from the state to hire felons.
It didn't take long before fights broke out between the felon workers and some being carted away in an ambulance. So the owner hired private security to keep them tame. That didn't work either as they attacked the security guard, so the security company refused to do business with the company unless they could provide an ample amount of officers to discourage violence and attacks on them. It ended up costing so much money for all the security that the owner got out of the program.
You can't say that what I propose is a failure, Ray. What I propose has never been tried.
You want to measure some half assed ideas against a complete program that has never been tried. There is no prison system , state or federal, that has the rehabilitation program I'm suggesting.
Ray, admit it. You like to argue, but like the Democrats, your ideology has a history of abject failure. You are afraid to explore new ideas and so what works and what don't is irrelevant. It's now about who has the most votes to stay in power. You don't want any solutions. You simply want your side to have power. That is made evident by your efforts to misrepresent me... much like the board troll on this thread does. It's dishonest, son.
Seems you have a problem with everybody misrepresenting you, so I"m in good company.
Prison is not a vocational school, prison is punishment.
Ray, I've answered this so many times for you that it is getting monotonous. Let's try this one more time, using a case that I'm familiar with:
Currently: Our prisons are so full that my wife has a son that was sent to prison for EIGHT years on a felony and, after FOUR plus years, he has not served more than six weeks in jail.
Under my proposal: He would have been sent to jail. There would be no early release of ANY kind without him applying himself.
So, on day one he enters prison. There he is met by someone who says:
"It's as simple as this. You've been found guilty of a crime. You can do eight years living in misery OR you can prove yourself and get out of here and live your life according to the rules of society.
You will work eight hours a day and you can sign up for GED classes. While taking GED classes you are required to begin removing tattos (beginning with prison tats, gang tats, etc.) Once you have a GED, you will be eligible for a two year reduction in your sentence. From there you will qualify to take training in some skill set that is in demand. You could qualify for another year - possibly two years toward early release, depending upon what jobs you will qualify for once you leave. Once you have those two things out of your way, you will be subject to drug / alcohol rehab classes (that you can take at any time) if applicable AND undergo a series of seminars for applying for a job, credit and getting an apartment / house, balancing a budget, setting priorities, maintaining a home, etc.
All said, you can leave in 28 to thirty months. OR you can stay the course.
While in prison, there is NO coffee, tea, cigarettes, candy, cookies, sodas, cake, ice cream, and you will have three hours of Internet / phone privileges / visitors per week to conduct any business you need.
Breaking any rule will result in a loss of that time.
Now, Ray, a guy goes to prison and gets a GED, alcohol / drug abuse counseling, training for the job he is going after upon release and has had seminars in basic life skills plus is bonded by the state so an employer doesn't lose money by hiring him. It's a win / win for everybody with no appreciable cost to taxpayers.
Those who choose to stay will, most likely keep returning. Add time for the recidivism upon a third prison stint and they will most likely die there after the third conviction since a third conviction would mean NO early release and a serve time of one year beyond their sentence.
So you are taking away coffee, tea, cigarettes, candy, cookies, sodas, cake, ice cream. Other than cigarettes it sounds like grade school. Again, school is already available the sad fact is the percentage of them changing is slim to none. You can’t force someone to do something against their will, they have to want it. Bribing them to change behavior has never been successful.
Bribing them? I'm not bribing anyone. I'd remove the luxuries of life and allow them to be exactly where they want to be without access to the things we enjoy in life.
Prison time should be for short stints and then to punish people while allowing them to get their excrement together and go back to society, make restitution, and rejoin society.
If they choose to stay in prison, there should not be one, single, solitary thing that is enjoyable about it.
You pretend like everybody goes to prison and that's how they planned their life. But, prisons are where we banish the emotionally disadvantaged, those suffering mental retardation, and those who were brought up by people imparting values foreign to what you feel are normal.
Sometimes people are raised where the most abnormal things you can imagine are considered normal. If they don't adjust to your values, you want to punish them and then turn them back into society with them still unprepared to live what you think is a normal life.
You have to remember I grew up in such an environment. My father had a low regard for life and when he was around, he would beat my mother. The only advantage I had over my siblings and cousins is that when the old man was in the hoosegow, my mother got sick (they thought it was TB at the time) and the cops found out that I was taking care of my siblings alone at the ripe old age of 11. We ended up in a neighbor's house and I got my first taste of normal. That didn't last but for a few months, but it was enough for me to prefer it over what I had been brought up in.
Other people tell me how "lucky" I am, but I wonder if it had not been for the right circumstances I'd be like the people I grew up around: drunks, drug addicts, cigarette smokers, law-breakers, the heathen. If somebody had not shown me a better lifestyle and got through that I too could have it if I sacrificed, applied myself and worked hard, this might be an entirely different conversation.
The bottom line is, you are not going to fix all of America's problems with low wage jobs and punishment. If that's all you got, this country is pretty well screwed.
Rehab doesn't work, never has. What you will get is a bunch of cons who will work the system so they can get out and then go back to what they were doing and have a bigger network of friends that the met in prison.
Again, the program I'm discussing has never been tried. We are just now beginning to implement it here:
Georgia opens first prison charter school
Education at heart of Georgia’s next wave of change in criminal justice
You can get a degree or certifications from prison as it now stands. It's not required they go however if they are not motivated to learn, they won't. If they want to get out early then they will do what they need to, to get released but no guarantee they will go straight after they are released. It's a start however, I am not confident that the motivation to change will be there. You can work a day as a welder make $280 or you can make a five minute drug deal and make $2000 and then go home and smoke weed for the rest of the day.
So you are taking away coffee, tea, cigarettes, candy, cookies, sodas, cake, ice cream. Other than cigarettes it sounds like grade school. Again, school is already available the sad fact is the percentage of them changing is slim to none. You can’t force someone to do something against their will, they have to want it. Bribing them to change behavior has never been successful.
Bribing them? I'm not bribing anyone. I'd remove the luxuries of life and allow them to be exactly where they want to be without access to the things we enjoy in life.
Prison time should be for short stints and then to punish people while allowing them to get their excrement together and go back to society, make restitution, and rejoin society.
If they choose to stay in prison, there should not be one, single, solitary thing that is enjoyable about it.
You pretend like everybody goes to prison and that's how they planned their life. But, prisons are where we banish the emotionally disadvantaged, those suffering mental retardation, and those who were brought up by people imparting values foreign to what you feel are normal.
Sometimes people are raised where the most abnormal things you can imagine are considered normal. If they don't adjust to your values, you want to punish them and then turn them back into society with them still unprepared to live what you think is a normal life.
You have to remember I grew up in such an environment. My father had a low regard for life and when he was around, he would beat my mother. The only advantage I had over my siblings and cousins is that when the old man was in the hoosegow, my mother got sick (they thought it was TB at the time) and the cops found out that I was taking care of my siblings alone at the ripe old age of 11. We ended up in a neighbor's house and I got my first taste of normal. That didn't last but for a few months, but it was enough for me to prefer it over what I had been brought up in.
Other people tell me how "lucky" I am, but I wonder if it had not been for the right circumstances I'd be like the people I grew up around: drunks, drug addicts, cigarette smokers, law-breakers, the heathen. If somebody had not shown me a better lifestyle and got through that I too could have it if I sacrificed, applied myself and worked hard, this might be an entirely different conversation.
The bottom line is, you are not going to fix all of America's problems with low wage jobs and punishment. If that's all you got, this country is pretty well screwed.
Rehab doesn't work, never has. What you will get is a bunch of cons who will work the system so they can get out and then go back to what they were doing and have a bigger network of friends that the met in prison.
Again, the program I'm discussing has never been tried. We are just now beginning to implement it here:
Georgia opens first prison charter school
Education at heart of Georgia’s next wave of change in criminal justice
You can get a degree or certifications from prison as it now stands. It's not required they go however if they are not motivated to learn, they won't. If they want to get out early then they will do what they need to, to get released but no guarantee they will go straight after they are released. It's a start however, I am not confident that the motivation to change will be there. You can work a day as a welder make $280 or you can make a five minute drug deal and make $2000 and then go home and smoke weed for the rest of the day.
What you're saying may hold true for federal prison, but it is not that way in the state prisons.
People become better criminals in prison because all they have to do is swap stories and network with each other until they get released. If a man were working eight hours a day and in his spare time learning how to succeed on the outside, a lot of them will take the training and rehabilitation opportunities.
When they're spending 12 hours a day working and studying, they will tend to get away from the criminal mindset. Couple that with the knowledge that a three strike you're out policy that will mandate they do all their sentence upon a third conviction AND at least a year, plus additional time if they break the rules in prison, ... if that don't scare it out of them, they will rot in prison while those who want to become productive will be given a second chance.
. It isn't a guarantee that they would become smarter criminals either. They might just turn it around hopefully. Is there really ever any guarantee's ? Plenty of hope, but not always guarantee's. Can't give up.What makes you believe these reformed prisoners won't simply become smarter criminals? Learning a skill etc while in prison is nice, but it is not any guarantee they won't be repeat offenders.You can't say that what I propose is a failure, Ray. What I propose has never been tried.
You want to measure some half assed ideas against a complete program that has never been tried. There is no prison system , state or federal, that has the rehabilitation program I'm suggesting.
Ray, admit it. You like to argue, but like the Democrats, your ideology has a history of abject failure. You are afraid to explore new ideas and so what works and what don't is irrelevant. It's now about who has the most votes to stay in power. You don't want any solutions. You simply want your side to have power. That is made evident by your efforts to misrepresent me... much like the board troll on this thread does. It's dishonest, son.
Seems you have a problem with everybody misrepresenting you, so I"m in good company.
Prison is not a vocational school, prison is punishment.
And rehabilitation doesn’t happen, it works for a few but the vast majority of the prison population isn’t wanting to rehab, they want to make sure they aren’t caught the next time.
Exactly. How does one rehab an extremely violent person or one who dedicated their life to drugs?
What kind of society sends that caliber of people back onto the streets after they are caught? Perhaps YOUR kind of society?
All that talk about losing liberties, yet here you are advocating more laws that will remove a parents liberty to help their own child and increase the size of govt. SMFHThere are things society can do. When parents are enabling their kids and the taxpayers are left holding the bag, you have an addressable situation. Since we're both agreed, when parents are aiding in this kind of destructive behavior, we should put the proposal out there to make it a crime wherein we label it abuse of some sort or another.
At the other end of the spectrum, we can do something when people get incarcerated by taking that opportunity to give those dependent upon the system the ability to become self sufficient.
You are nothing more than a libertarian socialist.
If they get their GED or Diploma while in prison, how does that not make them smarter? The question is will the recidivism rate go down. If they go on to commit new crimes, what new crimes may they attempt. If they actually go on to lead a normal life afterwards, then by all means, congrats. Now the question becomes the costs involved being worth the percentage of those that just might make it. There are many questions left unanswered and many that are unanswerable. The people of the individual states should be allowed to vote on it as it will increase their taxes, which in turn puts less money in peoples pockets and more in the govt coffer. Are the people of each state now working to pay for more social engineering.. It isn't a guarantee that they would become smarter criminals either. They might just turn it around hopefully. Is there really ever any guarantee's ? Plenty of hope, but not always guarantee's. Can't give up.What makes you believe these reformed prisoners won't simply become smarter criminals? Learning a skill etc while in prison is nice, but it is not any guarantee they won't be repeat offenders.Seems you have a problem with everybody misrepresenting you, so I"m in good company.
Prison is not a vocational school, prison is punishment.
And rehabilitation doesn’t happen, it works for a few but the vast majority of the prison population isn’t wanting to rehab, they want to make sure they aren’t caught the next time.
Exactly. How does one rehab an extremely violent person or one who dedicated their life to drugs?
What kind of society sends that caliber of people back onto the streets after they are caught? Perhaps YOUR kind of society?
There are many factions of Libertarian-ism. Not all Libertarians are capitalists.All that talk about losing liberties, yet here you are advocating more laws that will remove a parents liberty to help their own child and increase the size of govt. SMFHThere are things society can do. When parents are enabling their kids and the taxpayers are left holding the bag, you have an addressable situation. Since we're both agreed, when parents are aiding in this kind of destructive behavior, we should put the proposal out there to make it a crime wherein we label it abuse of some sort or another.
At the other end of the spectrum, we can do something when people get incarcerated by taking that opportunity to give those dependent upon the system the ability to become self sufficient.
You are nothing more than a libertarian socialist.
Which means a Socialist.
Libertarians are Capitalists.
Bribing them? I'm not bribing anyone. I'd remove the luxuries of life and allow them to be exactly where they want to be without access to the things we enjoy in life.
Prison time should be for short stints and then to punish people while allowing them to get their excrement together and go back to society, make restitution, and rejoin society.
If they choose to stay in prison, there should not be one, single, solitary thing that is enjoyable about it.
You pretend like everybody goes to prison and that's how they planned their life. But, prisons are where we banish the emotionally disadvantaged, those suffering mental retardation, and those who were brought up by people imparting values foreign to what you feel are normal.
Sometimes people are raised where the most abnormal things you can imagine are considered normal. If they don't adjust to your values, you want to punish them and then turn them back into society with them still unprepared to live what you think is a normal life.
You have to remember I grew up in such an environment. My father had a low regard for life and when he was around, he would beat my mother. The only advantage I had over my siblings and cousins is that when the old man was in the hoosegow, my mother got sick (they thought it was TB at the time) and the cops found out that I was taking care of my siblings alone at the ripe old age of 11. We ended up in a neighbor's house and I got my first taste of normal. That didn't last but for a few months, but it was enough for me to prefer it over what I had been brought up in.
Other people tell me how "lucky" I am, but I wonder if it had not been for the right circumstances I'd be like the people I grew up around: drunks, drug addicts, cigarette smokers, law-breakers, the heathen. If somebody had not shown me a better lifestyle and got through that I too could have it if I sacrificed, applied myself and worked hard, this might be an entirely different conversation.
The bottom line is, you are not going to fix all of America's problems with low wage jobs and punishment. If that's all you got, this country is pretty well screwed.
Rehab doesn't work, never has. What you will get is a bunch of cons who will work the system so they can get out and then go back to what they were doing and have a bigger network of friends that the met in prison.
Again, the program I'm discussing has never been tried. We are just now beginning to implement it here:
Georgia opens first prison charter school
Education at heart of Georgia’s next wave of change in criminal justice
You can get a degree or certifications from prison as it now stands. It's not required they go however if they are not motivated to learn, they won't. If they want to get out early then they will do what they need to, to get released but no guarantee they will go straight after they are released. It's a start however, I am not confident that the motivation to change will be there. You can work a day as a welder make $280 or you can make a five minute drug deal and make $2000 and then go home and smoke weed for the rest of the day.
What you're saying may hold true for federal prison, but it is not that way in the state prisons.
People become better criminals in prison because all they have to do is swap stories and network with each other until they get released. If a man were working eight hours a day and in his spare time learning how to succeed on the outside, a lot of them will take the training and rehabilitation opportunities.
When they're spending 12 hours a day working and studying, they will tend to get away from the criminal mindset. Couple that with the knowledge that a three strike you're out policy that will mandate they do all their sentence upon a third conviction AND at least a year, plus additional time if they break the rules in prison, ... if that don't scare it out of them, they will rot in prison while those who want to become productive will be given a second chance.
There are several states that have schooling in prison. California, Maine, Washington, Texas, New York and Colorado to name a couple.
Training, educating and so on are not guarantees, 7 out 10 re-offend and 5 out of ten wind up back in prison. Just the way it is. Not a knock on your idea however that is the reality of that group. Easy to tow the line in prison when everything is provided, tougher when you have to make it on your own.
I also think about the message, want a free education? Don't join the service, commit a crime!
All that talk about losing liberties, yet here you are advocating more laws that will remove a parents liberty to help their own child and increase the size of govt. SMFHThere are things society can do. When parents are enabling their kids and the taxpayers are left holding the bag, you have an addressable situation. Since we're both agreed, when parents are aiding in this kind of destructive behavior, we should put the proposal out there to make it a crime wherein we label it abuse of some sort or another.
At the other end of the spectrum, we can do something when people get incarcerated by taking that opportunity to give those dependent upon the system the ability to become self sufficient.
You are nothing more than a libertarian socialist.
Which means a Socialist.
Libertarians are Capitalists.
Rehab doesn't work, never has. What you will get is a bunch of cons who will work the system so they can get out and then go back to what they were doing and have a bigger network of friends that the met in prison.
Again, the program I'm discussing has never been tried. We are just now beginning to implement it here:
Georgia opens first prison charter school
Education at heart of Georgia’s next wave of change in criminal justice
You can get a degree or certifications from prison as it now stands. It's not required they go however if they are not motivated to learn, they won't. If they want to get out early then they will do what they need to, to get released but no guarantee they will go straight after they are released. It's a start however, I am not confident that the motivation to change will be there. You can work a day as a welder make $280 or you can make a five minute drug deal and make $2000 and then go home and smoke weed for the rest of the day.
What you're saying may hold true for federal prison, but it is not that way in the state prisons.
People become better criminals in prison because all they have to do is swap stories and network with each other until they get released. If a man were working eight hours a day and in his spare time learning how to succeed on the outside, a lot of them will take the training and rehabilitation opportunities.
When they're spending 12 hours a day working and studying, they will tend to get away from the criminal mindset. Couple that with the knowledge that a three strike you're out policy that will mandate they do all their sentence upon a third conviction AND at least a year, plus additional time if they break the rules in prison, ... if that don't scare it out of them, they will rot in prison while those who want to become productive will be given a second chance.
There are several states that have schooling in prison. California, Maine, Washington, Texas, New York and Colorado to name a couple.
Training, educating and so on are not guarantees, 7 out 10 re-offend and 5 out of ten wind up back in prison. Just the way it is. Not a knock on your idea however that is the reality of that group. Easy to tow the line in prison when everything is provided, tougher when you have to make it on your own.
I also think about the message, want a free education? Don't join the service, commit a crime!
Again, you keep harping on stuff that the government tried that did not work. My experiences are not with the government. Knock the idea all you like. Until it's been tried, it has not failed. Uncle Scam has his ideas; those with experience have theirs.
Rehab doesn't work, never has. What you will get is a bunch of cons who will work the system so they can get out and then go back to what they were doing and have a bigger network of friends that the met in prison.
Again, the program I'm discussing has never been tried. We are just now beginning to implement it here:
Georgia opens first prison charter school
Education at heart of Georgia’s next wave of change in criminal justice
You can get a degree or certifications from prison as it now stands. It's not required they go however if they are not motivated to learn, they won't. If they want to get out early then they will do what they need to, to get released but no guarantee they will go straight after they are released. It's a start however, I am not confident that the motivation to change will be there. You can work a day as a welder make $280 or you can make a five minute drug deal and make $2000 and then go home and smoke weed for the rest of the day.
What you're saying may hold true for federal prison, but it is not that way in the state prisons.
People become better criminals in prison because all they have to do is swap stories and network with each other until they get released. If a man were working eight hours a day and in his spare time learning how to succeed on the outside, a lot of them will take the training and rehabilitation opportunities.
When they're spending 12 hours a day working and studying, they will tend to get away from the criminal mindset. Couple that with the knowledge that a three strike you're out policy that will mandate they do all their sentence upon a third conviction AND at least a year, plus additional time if they break the rules in prison, ... if that don't scare it out of them, they will rot in prison while those who want to become productive will be given a second chance.
There are several states that have schooling in prison. California, Maine, Washington, Texas, New York and Colorado to name a couple.
Training, educating and so on are not guarantees, 7 out 10 re-offend and 5 out of ten wind up back in prison. Just the way it is. Not a knock on your idea however that is the reality of that group. Easy to tow the line in prison when everything is provided, tougher when you have to make it on your own.
I also think about the message, want a free education? Don't join the service, commit a crime!
Again, you keep harping on stuff that the government tried that did not work. My experiences are not with the government. Knock the idea all you like. Until it's been tried, it has not failed. Uncle Scam has his ideas; those with experience have theirs.
Again, the program I'm discussing has never been tried. We are just now beginning to implement it here:
Georgia opens first prison charter school
Education at heart of Georgia’s next wave of change in criminal justice
You can get a degree or certifications from prison as it now stands. It's not required they go however if they are not motivated to learn, they won't. If they want to get out early then they will do what they need to, to get released but no guarantee they will go straight after they are released. It's a start however, I am not confident that the motivation to change will be there. You can work a day as a welder make $280 or you can make a five minute drug deal and make $2000 and then go home and smoke weed for the rest of the day.
What you're saying may hold true for federal prison, but it is not that way in the state prisons.
People become better criminals in prison because all they have to do is swap stories and network with each other until they get released. If a man were working eight hours a day and in his spare time learning how to succeed on the outside, a lot of them will take the training and rehabilitation opportunities.
When they're spending 12 hours a day working and studying, they will tend to get away from the criminal mindset. Couple that with the knowledge that a three strike you're out policy that will mandate they do all their sentence upon a third conviction AND at least a year, plus additional time if they break the rules in prison, ... if that don't scare it out of them, they will rot in prison while those who want to become productive will be given a second chance.
There are several states that have schooling in prison. California, Maine, Washington, Texas, New York and Colorado to name a couple.
Training, educating and so on are not guarantees, 7 out 10 re-offend and 5 out of ten wind up back in prison. Just the way it is. Not a knock on your idea however that is the reality of that group. Easy to tow the line in prison when everything is provided, tougher when you have to make it on your own.
I also think about the message, want a free education? Don't join the service, commit a crime!
Again, you keep harping on stuff that the government tried that did not work. My experiences are not with the government. Knock the idea all you like. Until it's been tried, it has not failed. Uncle Scam has his ideas; those with experience have theirs.
They have schooling in several states. I hope it works but I for reasons stated don’t believe it will.
You can get a degree or certifications from prison as it now stands. It's not required they go however if they are not motivated to learn, they won't. If they want to get out early then they will do what they need to, to get released but no guarantee they will go straight after they are released. It's a start however, I am not confident that the motivation to change will be there. You can work a day as a welder make $280 or you can make a five minute drug deal and make $2000 and then go home and smoke weed for the rest of the day.
What you're saying may hold true for federal prison, but it is not that way in the state prisons.
People become better criminals in prison because all they have to do is swap stories and network with each other until they get released. If a man were working eight hours a day and in his spare time learning how to succeed on the outside, a lot of them will take the training and rehabilitation opportunities.
When they're spending 12 hours a day working and studying, they will tend to get away from the criminal mindset. Couple that with the knowledge that a three strike you're out policy that will mandate they do all their sentence upon a third conviction AND at least a year, plus additional time if they break the rules in prison, ... if that don't scare it out of them, they will rot in prison while those who want to become productive will be given a second chance.
There are several states that have schooling in prison. California, Maine, Washington, Texas, New York and Colorado to name a couple.
Training, educating and so on are not guarantees, 7 out 10 re-offend and 5 out of ten wind up back in prison. Just the way it is. Not a knock on your idea however that is the reality of that group. Easy to tow the line in prison when everything is provided, tougher when you have to make it on your own.
I also think about the message, want a free education? Don't join the service, commit a crime!
Again, you keep harping on stuff that the government tried that did not work. My experiences are not with the government. Knock the idea all you like. Until it's been tried, it has not failed. Uncle Scam has his ideas; those with experience have theirs.
They have schooling in several states. I hope it works but I for reasons stated don’t believe it will.
It's not the same thing.
In the course of this thread I have not advocated NOR supported an laws that would impose a requirement that an employer pay an employee any kind of wage. Giving employers a chance to reduce their taxes by more than half (and it is clearly THEIR choice) is not socialism in any way, shape, fashion or form.
They are the ones against a free market. BTW, why protect jobs if you're only going to force people to work for slave wages?
In the course of this thread I have not advocated NOR supported an laws that would impose a requirement that an employer pay an employee any kind of wage. Giving employers a chance to reduce their taxes by more than half (and it is clearly THEIR choice) is not socialism in any way, shape, fashion or form.
Great, then why not offer such tax breaks to employers that provide employees with healthcare insurance instead? I'd be all for that.
They are the ones against a free market. BTW, why protect jobs if you're only going to force people to work for slave wages?
Can you name me one person who is "forced" to work for anybody for any wage? I've had several jobs in my life, and nobody ever forced me to take any of them. I took those jobs by my own choice.
In the course of this thread I have not advocated NOR supported an laws that would impose a requirement that an employer pay an employee any kind of wage. Giving employers a chance to reduce their taxes by more than half (and it is clearly THEIR choice) is not socialism in any way, shape, fashion or form.
Great, then why not offer such tax breaks to employers that provide employees with healthcare insurance instead? I'd be all for that.
They are the ones against a free market. BTW, why protect jobs if you're only going to force people to work for slave wages?
Can you name me one person who is "forced" to work for anybody for any wage? I've had several jobs in my life, and nobody ever forced me to take any of them. I took those jobs by my own choice.
In the course of this thread I have not advocated NOR supported an laws that would impose a requirement that an employer pay an employee any kind of wage. Giving employers a chance to reduce their taxes by more than half (and it is clearly THEIR choice) is not socialism in any way, shape, fashion or form.
Great, then why not offer such tax breaks to employers that provide employees with healthcare insurance instead? I'd be all for that.
They are the ones against a free market. BTW, why protect jobs if you're only going to force people to work for slave wages?
Can you name me one person who is "forced" to work for anybody for any wage? I've had several jobs in my life, and nobody ever forced me to take any of them. I took those jobs by my own choice.
In the course of this thread I have not advocated NOR supported an laws that would impose a requirement that an employer pay an employee any kind of wage. Giving employers a chance to reduce their taxes by more than half (and it is clearly THEIR choice) is not socialism in any way, shape, fashion or form.
Great, then why not offer such tax breaks to employers that provide employees with healthcare insurance instead? I'd be all for that.
They are the ones against a free market. BTW, why protect jobs if you're only going to force people to work for slave wages?
Can you name me one person who is "forced" to work for anybody for any wage? I've had several jobs in my life, and nobody ever forced me to take any of them. I took those jobs by my own choice.
I agree, although when you consider many of the liberals out there, they feel having to show up on time for work is forcing them....and terribly difficult.
Humornut isn’t a liberal, he is a lefty.
You are a liar and a retard.
