Trump failed - so will he now try to sabotage Obamacare?

[frigidweirdo]

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Apples are bad, I know apples are bad because my last apple was bad.

But what about all the other apples?

Nope, we can only look at the last apple I ate.

You're damn right because that's the only one that counts.

My life was fine until the Commies voted for that big-eared punk. Never has one human (or sub-human in this case) done so much personal damage to my life. I wish the worst on him and his family for what he and the other Commies have done to me and my life. It's unforgivable, and it certainly reinforces my hatred of government involvement in any part of my life.

Then why don't you want to go for a system where the costs would be reduced massively? You then shout out that it's communism too, but would save you a packet.

How left of you. Be able to identify a problem, and expect the entity that is the problem to also be the solution.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

How right of you, to simply dismiss everything and anything because you don't see how it can work, when it can.

As I've said before, there are many problems in the US and most stem from how the govt is elected, but at every stage you have a reason for why it should never change.

Oh, govt healthcare can't work because the govt is bad.

Well change the govt.

No you can't do that.....

Like you actually want a system that leeches off of you, however you'll complain when the leech is one you don't like, you want the leech you do like.

 

[frigidweirdo]

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yep. When your OOP & deductible is so high you will never hit them, you effectively have no insurance.

Exactly. What good would an auto policy be if you had a 10K deductible before the insurance paid anything into your auto wreck? Especially if you are paying 8K a year into the plan? It's worthless.

And let us not forget THIS salient point: I should have a choice about what insurance I get, and I should be the one making the choice.

You really can't reiterate the importance of choice to leftists too often, because their minds simply don't work that way.

The problem that I see is this. Choice is one of those key words that the right love to explain away their screwing you over.

Like school vouchers. The right tell us we need school vouchers to have choice. I tell them that in the UK the govt school system has as much choice as any voucher system and it doesn't have vouchers.

The same with health.

Why not have a public system that has enough money to do well, and allow people to choose, within reason, whichever hospital they can get into? Hey, it's simple. But no, you won't like this because this will take away from your ability to pretend you give a fuck about choice.

 

[Flopper]

What exactly does all that have to do with whether or not Obamacare sucks? It's not an either/or proposition. It's possible for BOTH plans to be terrible.

But... if you're a democrat, Obamacare is the best shit since sliced penis pie, and if you're a republican, it's the worst shit since sliced penis pie.

In reality it is neither. People that get their insurance through their employer, Medicaid, or Medicare which is about 85% of the insured, it has had no major impact. Employer provided insurance premiums have only increased 3% to 4% a year, just about equal to the increase in healthcare cost. Medicare coverage and premiums for all but the wealthy has changed little. Medicaid is the same but more people are illegible.

The people that are really effected, about 14% of the insured are the people that buy individual insurance through brokers or through the exchanges. Those that get large subsidies or had serious pre-existing conditions are benefiting. Those with higher incomes and little no subsides are generally paying a lot more for their insurance.

When we are talking about who benefits from Obamacare, it has nothing to do with party lines. People in both parties have benefited and have been hurt by the law.

This is so wrong because the less you have, the easier Commie Care plans can be afforded. Lower income people tend to vote Democrat compared to middle-class to higher income people. So it's clear that this plot was designed to cater to Democrat voters. I'm your typical middle-class person with middle-class income, and there is no way in hell I could ever afford one of these disastrous plans.

Like so many on the right you put ideological beliefs ahead of facts. The vast majority of the insured, about 85% have seen little change in the cost of their insurance plans and millions more people now have coverage. People can now leave their employment to start a business or retire with the assurance that insurance can not be denied because of preexisting conditions. Parents no longer have have to worry about whether their kids will have insurance when they go out on their own. And no one needs to worry about whether their insurance carrier will cut them off if they have major health problems. And over 20 million uninsured now have insurance. Most people have benefited from Obamacare but not all.

Republicans could have used the American Healthcare bill to fix some serious problems in Obamacare but instead they used the bill to change Obamacare in way that it increased the cost of individual insurance and would have left 24 million uninsured. And even if that bill would have passed Obamacare would not have been repealed or replaced.

Commie Care was designed to give likely Democrat voters easier access to healthcare at the expense to likely Republican voters which are the middle-class, upper-middle-class and wealthy. The french fry makers in our country never had such cheap options. But for us working people, we got screwed.

Most of the people on Commie Care are on Medicaid, and a smaller percentage of Americans have private insurance coverage today than in 2007. The only reason "some" did not experience huge rate increases is because those increases are being paid for by everybody else.

The plot was a complete and utter failure. It was also designed that way. We Republicans predicted this tragedy since day one and we are right on track with our predictions. Commie Care is exactly what happens when you mix politics with healthcare.

Obamacare was a pushed back against inequality, essentially redistributing income in the form of health insurance or insurance subsidies to many of the groups that have fared poorly over the last few decades.

The American Healthcare bill sought to reverse Obamacare by making it harder for the poor to get health insurance while making it easier for those with higher incomes.

For those that saw higher costs, Obamacare was a failure. For those that saw lower cost it was a success. For those that didn't want to buy health insurance, it was a failure. For those with prexisting conditions worried about getting health insurance it was a success. etc....

It should be clear to everyone, that any healthcare bill short of true universal coverage will favor certain groups. Obamacare favored those least able to afford healthcare insurance.

We will fight over this forever or at least until we adopt a single payer plan such as Medicare for All which would end the debate as it has in so many countries.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But... if you're a democrat, Obamacare is the best shit since sliced penis pie, and if you're a republican, it's the worst shit since sliced penis pie.

In reality it is neither. People that get their insurance through their employer, Medicaid, or Medicare which is about 85% of the insured, it has had no major impact. Employer provided insurance premiums have only increased 3% to 4% a year, just about equal to the increase in healthcare cost. Medicare coverage and premiums for all but the wealthy has changed little. Medicaid is the same but more people are illegible.

The people that are really effected, about 14% of the insured are the people that buy individual insurance through brokers or through the exchanges. Those that get large subsidies or had serious pre-existing conditions are benefiting. Those with higher incomes and little no subsides are generally paying a lot more for their insurance.

When we are talking about who benefits from Obamacare, it has nothing to do with party lines. People in both parties have benefited and have been hurt by the law.

This is so wrong because the less you have, the easier Commie Care plans can be afforded. Lower income people tend to vote Democrat compared to middle-class to higher income people. So it's clear that this plot was designed to cater to Democrat voters. I'm your typical middle-class person with middle-class income, and there is no way in hell I could ever afford one of these disastrous plans.

Like so many on the right you put ideological beliefs ahead of facts. The vast majority of the insured, about 85% have seen little change in the cost of their insurance plans and millions more people now have coverage. People can now leave their employment to start a business or retire with the assurance that insurance can not be denied because of preexisting conditions. Parents no longer have have to worry about whether their kids will have insurance when they go out on their own. And no one needs to worry about whether their insurance carrier will cut them off if they have major health problems. And over 20 million uninsured now have insurance. Most people have benefited from Obamacare but not all.

Republicans could have used the American Healthcare bill to fix some serious problems in Obamacare but instead they used the bill to change Obamacare in way that it increased the cost of individual insurance and would have left 24 million uninsured. And even if that bill would have passed Obamacare would not have been repealed or replaced.

Commie Care was designed to give likely Democrat voters easier access to healthcare at the expense to likely Republican voters which are the middle-class, upper-middle-class and wealthy. The french fry makers in our country never had such cheap options. But for us working people, we got screwed.

Most of the people on Commie Care are on Medicaid, and a smaller percentage of Americans have private insurance coverage today than in 2007. The only reason "some" did not experience huge rate increases is because those increases are being paid for by everybody else.

The plot was a complete and utter failure. It was also designed that way. We Republicans predicted this tragedy since day one and we are right on track with our predictions. Commie Care is exactly what happens when you mix politics with healthcare.

Obamacare was a pushed back against inequality, essentially redistributing income in the form of health insurance or insurance subsidies to many of the groups that have fared poorly over the last few decades.

The American Healthcare bill sought to reverse Obamacare by making it harder for the poor to get health insurance while making it easier for those with higher incomes.

For those that saw higher costs, Obamacare was a failure. For those that saw lower cost it was a success. For those that didn't want to buy health insurance, it was a failure. For those with prexisting conditions worried about getting health insurance it was a success. etc....

It should be clear to everyone, that any healthcare bill short of true universal coverage will favor certain groups. Obamacare favored those least able to afford healthcare insurance.

We will fight over this forever or at least until we adopt a single payer plan such as Medicare for All which would end the debate as it has in so many countries.

Which is exactly as I said. It favored Democrat voters at the expense of Republican voters.

Medicare for all? You are kidding, correct? You do realize that government programs only pay about 2/3 of the cost for their patients. Without private insurance, those hospitals would have to close down because there would be no place to make up the losses. And in fact, facilities that have mostly government dependents do close down because government doesn't play it's bill.

When you help or subsidize any group of people, you place a value on them. And what Commie Care did was place a higher value on non-producers and a lesser value on producers. It's your typical leftist rewarding failure and penalizing success.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Apples are bad, I know apples are bad because my last apple was bad.

But what about all the other apples?

Nope, we can only look at the last apple I ate.

You're damn right because that's the only one that counts.

My life was fine until the Commies voted for that big-eared punk. Never has one human (or sub-human in this case) done so much personal damage to my life. I wish the worst on him and his family for what he and the other Commies have done to me and my life. It's unforgivable, and it certainly reinforces my hatred of government involvement in any part of my life.

Then why don't you want to go for a system where the costs would be reduced massively? You then shout out that it's communism too, but would save you a packet.

How left of you. Be able to identify a problem, and expect the entity that is the problem to also be the solution.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

How right of you, to simply dismiss everything and anything because you don't see how it can work, when it can.

As I've said before, there are many problems in the US and most stem from how the govt is elected, but at every stage you have a reason for why it should never change.

Oh, govt healthcare can't work because the govt is bad.

Well change the govt.

No you can't do that.....

Like you actually want a system that leeches off of you, however you'll complain when the leech is one you don't like, you want the leech you do like.

Let me tell you, there is only one capitalist conservative United States of America.

Whether you're a liberal, a socialist, a Communist, you can always go elsewhere and live your utopia if that's what you desire. if you want to live with socialized healthcare, have at it. If you want to live in a country where only the police and criminals have guns, there are plenty of places like that. If you want to live where wealth is limited and a garbage man makes almost as much as a doctor, there are places like that.

But when you finally realize what a mistake you made, you can always come back to the US of A. Because we will still be capitalist pigs, still have our insurance healthcare system, still be armed and ready to protect ourselves as well as our country.

But once you destroy our capitalistic and free system, there is no place to turn back to when things don't work out like you planned. We will be just like any other Socialist/ Communist country.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yep. When your OOP & deductible is so high you will never hit them, you effectively have no insurance.

Exactly. What good would an auto policy be if you had a 10K deductible before the insurance paid anything into your auto wreck? Especially if you are paying 8K a year into the plan? It's worthless.

And let us not forget THIS salient point: I should have a choice about what insurance I get, and I should be the one making the choice.

You really can't reiterate the importance of choice to leftists too often, because their minds simply don't work that way.

Liberals don't like choice--they never have. Choice means freedom--particularly freedom from the government. Choice confuses liberals. They don't want to be confused, so they depend on government to make all their choices for them.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yep. When your OOP & deductible is so high you will never hit them, you effectively have no insurance.

Exactly. What good would an auto policy be if you had a 10K deductible before the insurance paid anything into your auto wreck? Especially if you are paying 8K a year into the plan? It's worthless.

And let us not forget THIS salient point: I should have a choice about what insurance I get, and I should be the one making the choice.

You really can't reiterate the importance of choice to leftists too often, because their minds simply don't work that way.

Liberals don't like choice--they never have. Choice means freedom--particularly freedom from the government. Choice confuses liberals. They don't want to be confused, so they depend on government to make all their choices for them.

Liberals are all about choice.

Left wingers love choice too.....as long as it is their choice. They'll love you till you disagree...then they call you a racist because they actually think we care about abaout what they say.

 

[Flopper]

In reality it is neither. People that get their insurance through their employer, Medicaid, or Medicare which is about 85% of the insured, it has had no major impact. Employer provided insurance premiums have only increased 3% to 4% a year, just about equal to the increase in healthcare cost. Medicare coverage and premiums for all but the wealthy has changed little. Medicaid is the same but more people are illegible.

The people that are really effected, about 14% of the insured are the people that buy individual insurance through brokers or through the exchanges. Those that get large subsidies or had serious pre-existing conditions are benefiting. Those with higher incomes and little no subsides are generally paying a lot more for their insurance.

When we are talking about who benefits from Obamacare, it has nothing to do with party lines. People in both parties have benefited and have been hurt by the law.

This is so wrong because the less you have, the easier Commie Care plans can be afforded. Lower income people tend to vote Democrat compared to middle-class to higher income people. So it's clear that this plot was designed to cater to Democrat voters. I'm your typical middle-class person with middle-class income, and there is no way in hell I could ever afford one of these disastrous plans.

Like so many on the right you put ideological beliefs ahead of facts. The vast majority of the insured, about 85% have seen little change in the cost of their insurance plans and millions more people now have coverage. People can now leave their employment to start a business or retire with the assurance that insurance can not be denied because of preexisting conditions. Parents no longer have have to worry about whether their kids will have insurance when they go out on their own. And no one needs to worry about whether their insurance carrier will cut them off if they have major health problems. And over 20 million uninsured now have insurance. Most people have benefited from Obamacare but not all.

Republicans could have used the American Healthcare bill to fix some serious problems in Obamacare but instead they used the bill to change Obamacare in way that it increased the cost of individual insurance and would have left 24 million uninsured. And even if that bill would have passed Obamacare would not have been repealed or replaced.

Commie Care was designed to give likely Democrat voters easier access to healthcare at the expense to likely Republican voters which are the middle-class, upper-middle-class and wealthy. The french fry makers in our country never had such cheap options. But for us working people, we got screwed.

Most of the people on Commie Care are on Medicaid, and a smaller percentage of Americans have private insurance coverage today than in 2007. The only reason "some" did not experience huge rate increases is because those increases are being paid for by everybody else.

The plot was a complete and utter failure. It was also designed that way. We Republicans predicted this tragedy since day one and we are right on track with our predictions. Commie Care is exactly what happens when you mix politics with healthcare.

Obamacare was a pushed back against inequality, essentially redistributing income in the form of health insurance or insurance subsidies to many of the groups that have fared poorly over the last few decades.

The American Healthcare bill sought to reverse Obamacare by making it harder for the poor to get health insurance while making it easier for those with higher incomes.

For those that saw higher costs, Obamacare was a failure. For those that saw lower cost it was a success. For those that didn't want to buy health insurance, it was a failure. For those with prexisting conditions worried about getting health insurance it was a success. etc....

It should be clear to everyone, that any healthcare bill short of true universal coverage will favor certain groups. Obamacare favored those least able to afford healthcare insurance.

We will fight over this forever or at least until we adopt a single payer plan such as Medicare for All which would end the debate as it has in so many countries.

Which is exactly as I said. It favored Democrat voters at the expense of Republican voters.

Medicare for all? You are kidding, correct? You do realize that government programs only pay about 2/3 of the cost for their patients. Without private insurance, those hospitals would have to close down because there would be no place to make up the losses. And in fact, facilities that have mostly government dependents do close down because government doesn't play it's bill.

When you help or subsidize any group of people, you place a value on them. And what Commie Care did was place a higher value on non-producers and a lesser value on producers. It's your typical leftist rewarding failure and penalizing success.

Medicare pays 80%, not 2/3. In a Medicare for All plan, there would still be health insurance it would be secondary insurance for those who wanted it, much like Medicare supplements.

The major advantages of Medicare for All would be lower costs and it would cover everyone. Several analysis have put cost reduction at between 300 and 350 billion a year but some have reached as high as 40%.

Canada's government-run insurance system has much less bureaucracy and much lower administrative costs than our largely private system. Medicare has much lower administrative costs than private insurance. The reason is that single-payer systems do not devote large resources to screening out high-risk clients or charging them higher fees.

Rolling together Medicare, Medicaid, and State Children Health Systems would be a significant savings particular at the state level.

Employee sponsored insurance would no longer be needed. Many have estimated that this would be a bigger cost reduction for most business than the proposed corporate tax reduction.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This is so wrong because the less you have, the easier Commie Care plans can be afforded. Lower income people tend to vote Democrat compared to middle-class to higher income people. So it's clear that this plot was designed to cater to Democrat voters. I'm your typical middle-class person with middle-class income, and there is no way in hell I could ever afford one of these disastrous plans.

Like so many on the right you put ideological beliefs ahead of facts. The vast majority of the insured, about 85% have seen little change in the cost of their insurance plans and millions more people now have coverage. People can now leave their employment to start a business or retire with the assurance that insurance can not be denied because of preexisting conditions. Parents no longer have have to worry about whether their kids will have insurance when they go out on their own. And no one needs to worry about whether their insurance carrier will cut them off if they have major health problems. And over 20 million uninsured now have insurance. Most people have benefited from Obamacare but not all.

Republicans could have used the American Healthcare bill to fix some serious problems in Obamacare but instead they used the bill to change Obamacare in way that it increased the cost of individual insurance and would have left 24 million uninsured. And even if that bill would have passed Obamacare would not have been repealed or replaced.

Commie Care was designed to give likely Democrat voters easier access to healthcare at the expense to likely Republican voters which are the middle-class, upper-middle-class and wealthy. The french fry makers in our country never had such cheap options. But for us working people, we got screwed.

Most of the people on Commie Care are on Medicaid, and a smaller percentage of Americans have private insurance coverage today than in 2007. The only reason "some" did not experience huge rate increases is because those increases are being paid for by everybody else.

The plot was a complete and utter failure. It was also designed that way. We Republicans predicted this tragedy since day one and we are right on track with our predictions. Commie Care is exactly what happens when you mix politics with healthcare.

Obamacare was a pushed back against inequality, essentially redistributing income in the form of health insurance or insurance subsidies to many of the groups that have fared poorly over the last few decades.

The American Healthcare bill sought to reverse Obamacare by making it harder for the poor to get health insurance while making it easier for those with higher incomes.

For those that saw higher costs, Obamacare was a failure. For those that saw lower cost it was a success. For those that didn't want to buy health insurance, it was a failure. For those with prexisting conditions worried about getting health insurance it was a success. etc....

It should be clear to everyone, that any healthcare bill short of true universal coverage will favor certain groups. Obamacare favored those least able to afford healthcare insurance.

We will fight over this forever or at least until we adopt a single payer plan such as Medicare for All which would end the debate as it has in so many countries.

Which is exactly as I said. It favored Democrat voters at the expense of Republican voters.

Medicare for all? You are kidding, correct? You do realize that government programs only pay about 2/3 of the cost for their patients. Without private insurance, those hospitals would have to close down because there would be no place to make up the losses. And in fact, facilities that have mostly government dependents do close down because government doesn't play it's bill.

When you help or subsidize any group of people, you place a value on them. And what Commie Care did was place a higher value on non-producers and a lesser value on producers. It's your typical leftist rewarding failure and penalizing success.

Medicare pays 80%, not 2/3. In a Medicare for All plan, there would still be health insurance it would be secondary insurance for those who wanted it, much like Medicare supplements.

The major advantages of Medicare for All would be lower costs and it would cover everyone. Several analysis have put cost reduction at between 300 and 350 billion a year but some have reached as high as 40%.

Canada's government-run insurance system has much less bureaucracy and much lower administrative costs than our largely private system. Medicare has much lower administrative costs than private insurance. The reason is that single-payer systems do not devote large resources to screening out high-risk clients or charging them higher fees.

Rolling together Medicare, Medicaid, and State Children Health Systems would be a significant savings particular at the state level.

Employee sponsored insurance would no longer be needed. Many have estimated that this would be a bigger cost reduction for most business than the proposed corporate tax reduction.

Yes, Medicare pays about 80% of what "they" determine a procedure is worth--not the hospital or doctor. If you have surgery for $80,000, Medicare will only pay about $50,000 and the rest they lose out on. Why do you suppose it's getting harder and harder for government patients to find caregivers? Nobody wants government patients because they lose too much money on them.

Yes, employers would save a lot of money by getting out of the healthcare business. Then that cost would get shifted to our federal government now over 20 trillion in debt. That's solving a problem???

When Will The Government Start Forcing Doctors To See Obamacare Patients?

More Physicians Are Refusing to Accept Any Third Party Insurance

https://www.usnews.com/news/article...itals-wont-accept-obamacare-marketplace-plans

 

[frigidweirdo]

Apples are bad, I know apples are bad because my last apple was bad.

But what about all the other apples?

Nope, we can only look at the last apple I ate.

You're damn right because that's the only one that counts.

My life was fine until the Commies voted for that big-eared punk. Never has one human (or sub-human in this case) done so much personal damage to my life. I wish the worst on him and his family for what he and the other Commies have done to me and my life. It's unforgivable, and it certainly reinforces my hatred of government involvement in any part of my life.

Then why don't you want to go for a system where the costs would be reduced massively? You then shout out that it's communism too, but would save you a packet.

How left of you. Be able to identify a problem, and expect the entity that is the problem to also be the solution.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

How right of you, to simply dismiss everything and anything because you don't see how it can work, when it can.

As I've said before, there are many problems in the US and most stem from how the govt is elected, but at every stage you have a reason for why it should never change.

Oh, govt healthcare can't work because the govt is bad.

Well change the govt.

No you can't do that.....

Like you actually want a system that leeches off of you, however you'll complain when the leech is one you don't like, you want the leech you do like.

Let me tell you, there is only one capitalist conservative United States of America.

Whether you're a liberal, a socialist, a Communist, you can always go elsewhere and live your utopia if that's what you desire. if you want to live with socialized healthcare, have at it. If you want to live in a country where only the police and criminals have guns, there are plenty of places like that. If you want to live where wealth is limited and a garbage man makes almost as much as a doctor, there are places like that.

But when you finally realize what a mistake you made, you can always come back to the US of A. Because we will still be capitalist pigs, still have our insurance healthcare system, still be armed and ready to protect ourselves as well as our country.

But once you destroy our capitalistic and free system, there is no place to turn back to when things don't work out like you planned. We will be just like any other Socialist/ Communist country.

Oh Ray, what kind of argument is that?

So everything must stay the same because it's what it is and if you want change you can fuck off. Very enlightening. But I'm getting bored.

Let's sum this up.

You're annoyed because you have to pay lots of money for healthcare. The only reason you have to pay lots of money is because of an uber-capitalist healthcare system that allows leeches to take their slice of YOUR MONEY for doing unnecessary things. And you will bitch and moan about this.

But then people say, well hey, the system is broken, it needs to change and evidence shows that there is a cheaper system which works better.

And you'll say, no, we can't have this because I want the system of leeches.

It's a circular argument, and it's ridiculous. Each part contradicts the former, you refuse to see this, and you will argue each side separately to avoid this contradiction.

 

[Flopper]

Like so many on the right you put ideological beliefs ahead of facts. The vast majority of the insured, about 85% have seen little change in the cost of their insurance plans and millions more people now have coverage. People can now leave their employment to start a business or retire with the assurance that insurance can not be denied because of preexisting conditions. Parents no longer have have to worry about whether their kids will have insurance when they go out on their own. And no one needs to worry about whether their insurance carrier will cut them off if they have major health problems. And over 20 million uninsured now have insurance. Most people have benefited from Obamacare but not all.

Republicans could have used the American Healthcare bill to fix some serious problems in Obamacare but instead they used the bill to change Obamacare in way that it increased the cost of individual insurance and would have left 24 million uninsured. And even if that bill would have passed Obamacare would not have been repealed or replaced.

Commie Care was designed to give likely Democrat voters easier access to healthcare at the expense to likely Republican voters which are the middle-class, upper-middle-class and wealthy. The french fry makers in our country never had such cheap options. But for us working people, we got screwed.

Most of the people on Commie Care are on Medicaid, and a smaller percentage of Americans have private insurance coverage today than in 2007. The only reason "some" did not experience huge rate increases is because those increases are being paid for by everybody else.

The plot was a complete and utter failure. It was also designed that way. We Republicans predicted this tragedy since day one and we are right on track with our predictions. Commie Care is exactly what happens when you mix politics with healthcare.

Obamacare was a pushed back against inequality, essentially redistributing income in the form of health insurance or insurance subsidies to many of the groups that have fared poorly over the last few decades.

The American Healthcare bill sought to reverse Obamacare by making it harder for the poor to get health insurance while making it easier for those with higher incomes.

For those that saw higher costs, Obamacare was a failure. For those that saw lower cost it was a success. For those that didn't want to buy health insurance, it was a failure. For those with prexisting conditions worried about getting health insurance it was a success. etc....

It should be clear to everyone, that any healthcare bill short of true universal coverage will favor certain groups. Obamacare favored those least able to afford healthcare insurance.

We will fight over this forever or at least until we adopt a single payer plan such as Medicare for All which would end the debate as it has in so many countries.

Which is exactly as I said. It favored Democrat voters at the expense of Republican voters.

Medicare for all? You are kidding, correct? You do realize that government programs only pay about 2/3 of the cost for their patients. Without private insurance, those hospitals would have to close down because there would be no place to make up the losses. And in fact, facilities that have mostly government dependents do close down because government doesn't play it's bill.

When you help or subsidize any group of people, you place a value on them. And what Commie Care did was place a higher value on non-producers and a lesser value on producers. It's your typical leftist rewarding failure and penalizing success.

Medicare pays 80%, not 2/3. In a Medicare for All plan, there would still be health insurance it would be secondary insurance for those who wanted it, much like Medicare supplements.

The major advantages of Medicare for All would be lower costs and it would cover everyone. Several analysis have put cost reduction at between 300 and 350 billion a year but some have reached as high as 40%.

Canada's government-run insurance system has much less bureaucracy and much lower administrative costs than our largely private system. Medicare has much lower administrative costs than private insurance. The reason is that single-payer systems do not devote large resources to screening out high-risk clients or charging them higher fees.

Rolling together Medicare, Medicaid, and State Children Health Systems would be a significant savings particular at the state level.

Employee sponsored insurance would no longer be needed. Many have estimated that this would be a bigger cost reduction for most business than the proposed corporate tax reduction.

Yes, Medicare pays about 80% of what "they" determine a procedure is worth--not the hospital or doctor. If you have surgery for $80,000, Medicare will only pay about $50,000 and the rest they lose out on. Why do you suppose it's getting harder and harder for government patients to find caregivers? Nobody wants government patients because they lose too much money on them.

Yes, employers would save a lot of money by getting out of the healthcare business. Then that cost would get shifted to our federal government now over 20 trillion in debt. That's solving a problem???

When Will The Government Start Forcing Doctors To See Obamacare Patients?

More Physicians Are Refusing to Accept Any Third Party Insurance

https://www.usnews.com/news/article...itals-wont-accept-obamacare-marketplace-plans

When you say it's getting harder and harder for government patients to find doctors, they certainly aren't Medicare patients I know. I have 4 members of my family on Medicare in 3 states, Washington, Louisiana, and Florida. I have never heard of any one of them having a problem finding a doctor that accepts Medicare. In my area there are 12 general hospitals, and everyone of them takes Medicare and accepts assignment which means the provider accepts the Medicare-approved amount as full payment for services.

Today, more doctors and hospitals accept Medicare than any other form of insurance. 72% of all doctors, (667,000) are accepting new Medicare patients 91% of all doctors are treating Medicare patients. 59% of all hospital patients are covered by either Medicare or Medicaid. No insurance company's network can match that.

Hospitals and other providers grossly overcharge, knowing that insurers both private and government will pay only a faction of the cost.

I just had a sputum culture done. The sample is put on a plate with a dozen other patient samples and nutrients allowing bacteria to grow for 3 days. The samples are checked automatically for growth and the ones that grow out are checked under a microscope for bacteria type. Most bacteria can be identified in 5 mins. The bill is $750. The Medicare approved amount is $87 which is accepted as payment.

I see a doctor every month for about 15 mins. The bill is $140. The Medicare approved amount is $78 which is accepted as payment which is very close to the amount most insurance companies pay.

The healthcare business is a volume business. Surgeons operate 3 days a week. Some will do 5 or more surgeries in a day. Most doctors see 20 patients a day, some a lot more. At $78 an office visit, that's a gross of $390,000/yr. less expenses. Add to that consultation fees, surgery fees, and hospital fees and you have a very comfortable income.

The idea that the healthcare industry can't survive on Medicare payments is ridiculous. Hell, many places in Florida, Medicare is paying 90% of the bills.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You're damn right because that's the only one that counts.

My life was fine until the Commies voted for that big-eared punk. Never has one human (or sub-human in this case) done so much personal damage to my life. I wish the worst on him and his family for what he and the other Commies have done to me and my life. It's unforgivable, and it certainly reinforces my hatred of government involvement in any part of my life.

Then why don't you want to go for a system where the costs would be reduced massively? You then shout out that it's communism too, but would save you a packet.

How left of you. Be able to identify a problem, and expect the entity that is the problem to also be the solution.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

How right of you, to simply dismiss everything and anything because you don't see how it can work, when it can.

As I've said before, there are many problems in the US and most stem from how the govt is elected, but at every stage you have a reason for why it should never change.

Oh, govt healthcare can't work because the govt is bad.

Well change the govt.

No you can't do that.....

Like you actually want a system that leeches off of you, however you'll complain when the leech is one you don't like, you want the leech you do like.

Let me tell you, there is only one capitalist conservative United States of America.

Whether you're a liberal, a socialist, a Communist, you can always go elsewhere and live your utopia if that's what you desire. if you want to live with socialized healthcare, have at it. If you want to live in a country where only the police and criminals have guns, there are plenty of places like that. If you want to live where wealth is limited and a garbage man makes almost as much as a doctor, there are places like that.

But when you finally realize what a mistake you made, you can always come back to the US of A. Because we will still be capitalist pigs, still have our insurance healthcare system, still be armed and ready to protect ourselves as well as our country.

But once you destroy our capitalistic and free system, there is no place to turn back to when things don't work out like you planned. We will be just like any other Socialist/ Communist country.

Oh Ray, what kind of argument is that?

So everything must stay the same because it's what it is and if you want change you can fuck off. Very enlightening. But I'm getting bored.

Let's sum this up.

You're annoyed because you have to pay lots of money for healthcare. The only reason you have to pay lots of money is because of an uber-capitalist healthcare system that allows leeches to take their slice of YOUR MONEY for doing unnecessary things. And you will bitch and moan about this.

But then people say, well hey, the system is broken, it needs to change and evidence shows that there is a cheaper system which works better.

And you'll say, no, we can't have this because I want the system of leeches.

It's a circular argument, and it's ridiculous. Each part contradicts the former, you refuse to see this, and you will argue each side separately to avoid this contradiction.

All I'm saying is if you think socialism works (healthcare or otherwise) move to one of those countries and try it out first instead of ruining things here. If I thought there was something more valuable than what the US has to offer, I would move myself. But there is no more capitalist or conservative government than the US.

This is it. This is all the world has when it comes to this system of government. It's why people are leaving those Socialist, Dictatorship and Communist governments TO come here. We have a huge problem trying to keep those people out.

If you think doing things other ways is good, then why is it you people never move to those wonderful countries? I'm sure they would welcome you with open arms. You can come back here and tell us how wonderful life is not being an Americans or doing things the American way. But for some reason, you people never do. Instead, you preach about how our society should be---a society you would never think of joining.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Then why don't you want to go for a system where the costs would be reduced massively? You then shout out that it's communism too, but would save you a packet.

How left of you. Be able to identify a problem, and expect the entity that is the problem to also be the solution.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

How right of you, to simply dismiss everything and anything because you don't see how it can work, when it can.

As I've said before, there are many problems in the US and most stem from how the govt is elected, but at every stage you have a reason for why it should never change.

Oh, govt healthcare can't work because the govt is bad.

Well change the govt.

No you can't do that.....

Like you actually want a system that leeches off of you, however you'll complain when the leech is one you don't like, you want the leech you do like.

Let me tell you, there is only one capitalist conservative United States of America.

Whether you're a liberal, a socialist, a Communist, you can always go elsewhere and live your utopia if that's what you desire. if you want to live with socialized healthcare, have at it. If you want to live in a country where only the police and criminals have guns, there are plenty of places like that. If you want to live where wealth is limited and a garbage man makes almost as much as a doctor, there are places like that.

But when you finally realize what a mistake you made, you can always come back to the US of A. Because we will still be capitalist pigs, still have our insurance healthcare system, still be armed and ready to protect ourselves as well as our country.

But once you destroy our capitalistic and free system, there is no place to turn back to when things don't work out like you planned. We will be just like any other Socialist/ Communist country.

Oh Ray, what kind of argument is that?

So everything must stay the same because it's what it is and if you want change you can fuck off. Very enlightening. But I'm getting bored.

Let's sum this up.

You're annoyed because you have to pay lots of money for healthcare. The only reason you have to pay lots of money is because of an uber-capitalist healthcare system that allows leeches to take their slice of YOUR MONEY for doing unnecessary things. And you will bitch and moan about this.

But then people say, well hey, the system is broken, it needs to change and evidence shows that there is a cheaper system which works better.

And you'll say, no, we can't have this because I want the system of leeches.

It's a circular argument, and it's ridiculous. Each part contradicts the former, you refuse to see this, and you will argue each side separately to avoid this contradiction.

All I'm saying is if you think socialism works (healthcare or otherwise) move to one of those countries and try it out first instead of ruining things here. If I thought there was something more valuable than what the US has to offer, I would move myself. But there is no more capitalist or conservative government than the US.

This is it. This is all the world has when it comes to this system of government. It's why people are leaving those Socialist, Dictatorship and Communist governments TO come here. We have a huge problem trying to keep those people out.

If you think doing things other ways is good, then why is it you people never move to those wonderful countries? I'm sure they would welcome you with open arms. You can come back here and tell us how wonderful life is not being an Americans or doing things the American way. But for some reason, you people never do. Instead, you preach about how our society should be---a society you would never think of joining.

So you don't think any kind of socialized system works?

Like for example a socialized armed forces? A socialized police force? Socialized infrastructure?

So you want to do away with this? Make people pay for the police when they use the police? Or make them take out police insurance? Make all infrastructure pay as you use it? You want to get your car out of your driveway, you have to pay when you use it? How about the armed forces? Pay when you use it? So, only pay for it when you're being invaded?

Actually you say there is no more capitalist or conservative govt than the US, I disagree. It's a silly statement to make in the first place, because I doubt you have the knowledge of other countries to make such a statement.

So, I'm going to ask this. Is the US more conservative and capitalist than A) Somalia, B) North Korea, C) Pakistan, D) Saudi Arabia, E) Andorra, F) DRC????

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How left of you. Be able to identify a problem, and expect the entity that is the problem to also be the solution.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

How right of you, to simply dismiss everything and anything because you don't see how it can work, when it can.

As I've said before, there are many problems in the US and most stem from how the govt is elected, but at every stage you have a reason for why it should never change.

Oh, govt healthcare can't work because the govt is bad.

Well change the govt.

No you can't do that.....

Like you actually want a system that leeches off of you, however you'll complain when the leech is one you don't like, you want the leech you do like.

Let me tell you, there is only one capitalist conservative United States of America.

Whether you're a liberal, a socialist, a Communist, you can always go elsewhere and live your utopia if that's what you desire. if you want to live with socialized healthcare, have at it. If you want to live in a country where only the police and criminals have guns, there are plenty of places like that. If you want to live where wealth is limited and a garbage man makes almost as much as a doctor, there are places like that.

But when you finally realize what a mistake you made, you can always come back to the US of A. Because we will still be capitalist pigs, still have our insurance healthcare system, still be armed and ready to protect ourselves as well as our country.

But once you destroy our capitalistic and free system, there is no place to turn back to when things don't work out like you planned. We will be just like any other Socialist/ Communist country.

Oh Ray, what kind of argument is that?

So everything must stay the same because it's what it is and if you want change you can fuck off. Very enlightening. But I'm getting bored.

Let's sum this up.

You're annoyed because you have to pay lots of money for healthcare. The only reason you have to pay lots of money is because of an uber-capitalist healthcare system that allows leeches to take their slice of YOUR MONEY for doing unnecessary things. And you will bitch and moan about this.

But then people say, well hey, the system is broken, it needs to change and evidence shows that there is a cheaper system which works better.

And you'll say, no, we can't have this because I want the system of leeches.

It's a circular argument, and it's ridiculous. Each part contradicts the former, you refuse to see this, and you will argue each side separately to avoid this contradiction.

All I'm saying is if you think socialism works (healthcare or otherwise) move to one of those countries and try it out first instead of ruining things here. If I thought there was something more valuable than what the US has to offer, I would move myself. But there is no more capitalist or conservative government than the US.

This is it. This is all the world has when it comes to this system of government. It's why people are leaving those Socialist, Dictatorship and Communist governments TO come here. We have a huge problem trying to keep those people out.

If you think doing things other ways is good, then why is it you people never move to those wonderful countries? I'm sure they would welcome you with open arms. You can come back here and tell us how wonderful life is not being an Americans or doing things the American way. But for some reason, you people never do. Instead, you preach about how our society should be---a society you would never think of joining.

So you don't think any kind of socialized system works?

Like for example a socialized armed forces? A socialized police force? Socialized infrastructure?

So you want to do away with this? Make people pay for the police when they use the police? Or make them take out police insurance? Make all infrastructure pay as you use it? You want to get your car out of your driveway, you have to pay when you use it? How about the armed forces? Pay when you use it? So, only pay for it when you're being invaded?

Actually you say there is no more capitalist or conservative govt than the US, I disagree. It's a silly statement to make in the first place, because I doubt you have the knowledge of other countries to make such a statement.

So, I'm going to ask this. Is the US more conservative and capitalist than A) Somalia, B) North Korea, C) Pakistan, D) Saudi Arabia, E) Andorra, F) DRC????

Oh please, those countries represent more of your utopia than conservatism or capitalism. There is no country on earth that surpasses capitalism and conservatism of the Unites States.

Those places are perfect for your kind. Nobody has guns except government. Nobody has money except government. All have government medical care. All people outside of government are equal--equally poor. How you were born is where you will be at for the rest of your life because there are no opportunities.

What our government is supposed to provide is in the US Constitution. Guess what? Healthcare isn't in there, and neither is Cash for Clunkers, government cell phones, or government provided food.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yep. When your OOP & deductible is so high you will never hit them, you effectively have no insurance.

Exactly. What good would an auto policy be if you had a 10K deductible before the insurance paid anything into your auto wreck? Especially if you are paying 8K a year into the plan? It's worthless.

And let us not forget THIS salient point: I should have a choice about what insurance I get, and I should be the one making the choice.

You really can't reiterate the importance of choice to leftists too often, because their minds simply don't work that way.

Liberals don't like choice--they never have. Choice means freedom--particularly freedom from the government. Choice confuses liberals. They don't want to be confused, so they depend on government to make all their choices for them.

Well, admittedly, they aren't exactly equipped for making choices themselves.

 

[frigidweirdo]

How right of you, to simply dismiss everything and anything because you don't see how it can work, when it can.

As I've said before, there are many problems in the US and most stem from how the govt is elected, but at every stage you have a reason for why it should never change.

Oh, govt healthcare can't work because the govt is bad.

Well change the govt.

No you can't do that.....

Like you actually want a system that leeches off of you, however you'll complain when the leech is one you don't like, you want the leech you do like.

Let me tell you, there is only one capitalist conservative United States of America.

Whether you're a liberal, a socialist, a Communist, you can always go elsewhere and live your utopia if that's what you desire. if you want to live with socialized healthcare, have at it. If you want to live in a country where only the police and criminals have guns, there are plenty of places like that. If you want to live where wealth is limited and a garbage man makes almost as much as a doctor, there are places like that.

But when you finally realize what a mistake you made, you can always come back to the US of A. Because we will still be capitalist pigs, still have our insurance healthcare system, still be armed and ready to protect ourselves as well as our country.

But once you destroy our capitalistic and free system, there is no place to turn back to when things don't work out like you planned. We will be just like any other Socialist/ Communist country.

Oh Ray, what kind of argument is that?

So everything must stay the same because it's what it is and if you want change you can fuck off. Very enlightening. But I'm getting bored.

Let's sum this up.

You're annoyed because you have to pay lots of money for healthcare. The only reason you have to pay lots of money is because of an uber-capitalist healthcare system that allows leeches to take their slice of YOUR MONEY for doing unnecessary things. And you will bitch and moan about this.

But then people say, well hey, the system is broken, it needs to change and evidence shows that there is a cheaper system which works better.

And you'll say, no, we can't have this because I want the system of leeches.

It's a circular argument, and it's ridiculous. Each part contradicts the former, you refuse to see this, and you will argue each side separately to avoid this contradiction.

All I'm saying is if you think socialism works (healthcare or otherwise) move to one of those countries and try it out first instead of ruining things here. If I thought there was something more valuable than what the US has to offer, I would move myself. But there is no more capitalist or conservative government than the US.

This is it. This is all the world has when it comes to this system of government. It's why people are leaving those Socialist, Dictatorship and Communist governments TO come here. We have a huge problem trying to keep those people out.

If you think doing things other ways is good, then why is it you people never move to those wonderful countries? I'm sure they would welcome you with open arms. You can come back here and tell us how wonderful life is not being an Americans or doing things the American way. But for some reason, you people never do. Instead, you preach about how our society should be---a society you would never think of joining.

So you don't think any kind of socialized system works?

Like for example a socialized armed forces? A socialized police force? Socialized infrastructure?

So you want to do away with this? Make people pay for the police when they use the police? Or make them take out police insurance? Make all infrastructure pay as you use it? You want to get your car out of your driveway, you have to pay when you use it? How about the armed forces? Pay when you use it? So, only pay for it when you're being invaded?

Actually you say there is no more capitalist or conservative govt than the US, I disagree. It's a silly statement to make in the first place, because I doubt you have the knowledge of other countries to make such a statement.

So, I'm going to ask this. Is the US more conservative and capitalist than A) Somalia, B) North Korea, C) Pakistan, D) Saudi Arabia, E) Andorra, F) DRC????

Oh please, those countries represent more of your utopia than conservatism or capitalism. There is no country on earth that surpasses capitalism and conservatism of the Unites States.

Those places are perfect for your kind. Nobody has guns except government. Nobody has money except government. All have government medical care. All people outside of government are equal--equally poor. How you were born is where you will be at for the rest of your life because there are no opportunities.

What our government is supposed to provide is in the US Constitution. Guess what? Healthcare isn't in there, and neither is Cash for Clunkers, government cell phones, or government provided food.

Oh, right, I get it. You just say it's so, so it's so.

Bullshit. You're just living in your own little world, telling yourself that you are right and no one can ever get past that. So what's the point? I don't know, which is why I'm not going to bother right now.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yep. When your OOP & deductible is so high you will never hit them, you effectively have no insurance.

Exactly. What good would an auto policy be if you had a 10K deductible before the insurance paid anything into your auto wreck? Especially if you are paying 8K a year into the plan? It's worthless.

And let us not forget THIS salient point: I should have a choice about what insurance I get, and I should be the one making the choice.

You really can't reiterate the importance of choice to leftists too often, because their minds simply don't work that way.

Liberals don't like choice--they never have. Choice means freedom--particularly freedom from the government. Choice confuses liberals. They don't want to be confused, so they depend on government to make all their choices for them.

Another "I'll just make something up to justify the crap I spew"