Trump failed - so will he now try to sabotage Obamacare?

[Ray From Cleveland]

In other words, surrender to Socialism.

Sorry, we are not to that desperate point just yet. Before we ruin the healthcare system we have, let's make sure there is no way to save the market based system that's worked so well for us all these years until Commie Care came along.

Oh, so, it's unfair if the middle class has to pay more, namely you, but if people get to have healthcare no matter what their situation, then it's surrendering to Socialism?

I'm not a Socialist at all, but healthcare is something I believe should be socialized.

Now, before you go thinking you're real smart coming out with the surrender to Socialism claim, how about the police, infrastructure, the armed forces, they surrendered to socialism too.

Actually, I prefer to think of it as stopping corruption and unnecessary leeching.

No, the US isn't "that desperate yet", the rich still control the country and still control your mind.... they don't want socialized healthcare, so you don't want it either.

I don't want it because I don't want government having more control over my life. Government (particularly the left) have been trying to get more and more control over people. The two things they have yet to conquer to have that control are healthcare and energy. Once they have total control over those two things, they will then have total control over the people.

The police are local, having a police force is funded by local taxpayers, but not a necessity. Having a police force is optional.

Infrastructure and national security are covered in the US Constitution.

There is no requirement by any government agency to provide healthcare or a healthcare system.

So, you prefer having private companies having control over your life, AND controlling government? Great.

How does the left benefit from having Socialized healthcare exactly?

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Flopper]

This is what is screwed up with this country. we have someone being paid to investigate why the government isn't advertising for health insurance when they have no business advertising for health insurance to begin with.

Oh and ACA has been a failure since day 1. It has always been a failure. It is still a failure. In fact it was deliberately designed to be a failure. There is is nothing Donald trump or anyone else could do to make it any more of a failure.

But of course now the kool aid drinkers like lakhota and the rest of the low information Democrat are going to blame Republicans for this crappy legislation they had to force on the people with fraud and cheating.

Lives have been destroyed so democrats can have more power.

Really? Why did about 34 House Republicans say they would NOT vote for Trumpcare? Why does Trumpcare only have a 17% approval rating? Why did over 50 organizations oppose Trumpcare - including AARP, AMA, American Hospital Association, and American Cancer Society? Why?

Groups opposing the American Health Care Act

What exactly does all that have to do with whether or not Obamacare sucks? It's not an either/or proposition. It's possible for BOTH plans to be terrible.

But... if you're a democrat, Obamacare is the best shit since sliced penis pie, and if you're a republican, it's the worst shit since sliced penis pie.

In reality it is neither. People that get their insurance through their employer, Medicaid, or Medicare which is about 85% of the insured, it has had no major impact. Employer provided insurance premiums have only increased 3% to 4% a year, just about equal to the increase in healthcare cost. Medicare coverage and premiums for all but the wealthy has changed little. Medicaid is the same but more people are illegible.

The people that are really effected, about 14% of the insured are the people that buy individual insurance through brokers or through the exchanges. Those that get large subsidies or had serious pre-existing conditions are benefiting. Those with higher incomes and little no subsides are generally paying a lot more for their insurance.

When we are talking about who benefits from Obamacare, it has nothing to do with party lines. People in both parties have benefited and have been hurt by the law.

This is so wrong because the less you have, the easier Commie Care plans can be afforded. Lower income people tend to vote Democrat compared to middle-class to higher income people. So it's clear that this plot was designed to cater to Democrat voters. I'm your typical middle-class person with middle-class income, and there is no way in hell I could ever afford one of these disastrous plans.

Like so many on the right you put ideological beliefs ahead of facts. The vast majority of the insured, about 85% have seen little change in the cost of their insurance plans and millions more people now have coverage. People can now leave their employment to start a business or retire with the assurance that insurance can not be denied because of preexisting conditions. Parents no longer have have to worry about whether their kids will have insurance when they go out on their own. And no one needs to worry about whether their insurance carrier will cut them off if they have major health problems. And over 20 million uninsured now have insurance. Most people have benefited from Obamacare but not all.

Republicans could have used the American Healthcare bill to fix some serious problems in Obamacare but instead they used the bill to change Obamacare in way that it increased the cost of individual insurance and would have left 24 million uninsured. And even if that bill would have passed Obamacare would not have been repealed or replaced.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Oh, so, it's unfair if the middle class has to pay more, namely you, but if people get to have healthcare no matter what their situation, then it's surrendering to Socialism?

I'm not a Socialist at all, but healthcare is something I believe should be socialized.

Now, before you go thinking you're real smart coming out with the surrender to Socialism claim, how about the police, infrastructure, the armed forces, they surrendered to socialism too.

Actually, I prefer to think of it as stopping corruption and unnecessary leeching.

No, the US isn't "that desperate yet", the rich still control the country and still control your mind.... they don't want socialized healthcare, so you don't want it either.

I don't want it because I don't want government having more control over my life. Government (particularly the left) have been trying to get more and more control over people. The two things they have yet to conquer to have that control are healthcare and energy. Once they have total control over those two things, they will then have total control over the people.

The police are local, having a police force is funded by local taxpayers, but not a necessity. Having a police force is optional.

Infrastructure and national security are covered in the US Constitution.

There is no requirement by any government agency to provide healthcare or a healthcare system.

So, you prefer having private companies having control over your life, AND controlling government? Great.

How does the left benefit from having Socialized healthcare exactly?

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yep. When your OOP & deductible is so high you will never hit them, you effectively have no insurance.

 

[Flopper]

I don't want it because I don't want government having more control over my life. Government (particularly the left) have been trying to get more and more control over people. The two things they have yet to conquer to have that control are healthcare and energy. Once they have total control over those two things, they will then have total control over the people.

The police are local, having a police force is funded by local taxpayers, but not a necessity. Having a police force is optional.

Infrastructure and national security are covered in the US Constitution.

There is no requirement by any government agency to provide healthcare or a healthcare system.

So, you prefer having private companies having control over your life, AND controlling government? Great.

How does the left benefit from having Socialized healthcare exactly?

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yep. When your OOP & deductible is so high you will never hit them, you effectively have no insurance.

That's a pretty dumb statement. As we all know, insurance is intended to cover serious medical conditions. Even with a high deductible, there are many preventive services available during the deductible phase with no copay. A few thousand dollars for the deductible is only the beginning of the costs for most serious health problems. In fact, republicans have been beating the drum for high deductible insurance for years claiming it put more responsibility for healthcare on the person.

 

[Lakhota]

So, you prefer having private companies having control over your life, AND controlling government? Great.

How does the left benefit from having Socialized healthcare exactly?

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yep. When your OOP & deductible is so high you will never hit them, you effectively have no insurance.

That's a pretty dumb statement. As we all know, insurance is intended to cover serious medical conditions. Even with a high deductible, there are many preventive services available during the deductible phase with no copay. A few thousand dollars for the deductible is only the beginning of the costs for most serious health problems. In fact, republicans have been beating the drum for high deductible insurance for years claiming it put more responsibility for healthcare on the person.

Thank you! Trumpcare would have been a disaster - which is why many major groups opposed it.

Groups opposing the American Health Care Act

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't want it because I don't want government having more control over my life. Government (particularly the left) have been trying to get more and more control over people. The two things they have yet to conquer to have that control are healthcare and energy. Once they have total control over those two things, they will then have total control over the people.

The police are local, having a police force is funded by local taxpayers, but not a necessity. Having a police force is optional.

Infrastructure and national security are covered in the US Constitution.

There is no requirement by any government agency to provide healthcare or a healthcare system.

So, you prefer having private companies having control over your life, AND controlling government? Great.

How does the left benefit from having Socialized healthcare exactly?

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yep. When your OOP & deductible is so high you will never hit them, you effectively have no insurance.

Exactly. What good would an auto policy be if you had a 10K deductible before the insurance paid anything into your auto wreck? Especially if you are paying 8K a year into the plan? It's worthless.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Really? Why did about 34 House Republicans say they would NOT vote for Trumpcare? Why does Trumpcare only have a 17% approval rating? Why did over 50 organizations oppose Trumpcare - including AARP, AMA, American Hospital Association, and American Cancer Society? Why?

Groups opposing the American Health Care Act

What exactly does all that have to do with whether or not Obamacare sucks? It's not an either/or proposition. It's possible for BOTH plans to be terrible.

But... if you're a democrat, Obamacare is the best shit since sliced penis pie, and if you're a republican, it's the worst shit since sliced penis pie.

In reality it is neither. People that get their insurance through their employer, Medicaid, or Medicare which is about 85% of the insured, it has had no major impact. Employer provided insurance premiums have only increased 3% to 4% a year, just about equal to the increase in healthcare cost. Medicare coverage and premiums for all but the wealthy has changed little. Medicaid is the same but more people are illegible.

The people that are really effected, about 14% of the insured are the people that buy individual insurance through brokers or through the exchanges. Those that get large subsidies or had serious pre-existing conditions are benefiting. Those with higher incomes and little no subsides are generally paying a lot more for their insurance.

When we are talking about who benefits from Obamacare, it has nothing to do with party lines. People in both parties have benefited and have been hurt by the law.

This is so wrong because the less you have, the easier Commie Care plans can be afforded. Lower income people tend to vote Democrat compared to middle-class to higher income people. So it's clear that this plot was designed to cater to Democrat voters. I'm your typical middle-class person with middle-class income, and there is no way in hell I could ever afford one of these disastrous plans.

Like so many on the right you put ideological beliefs ahead of facts. The vast majority of the insured, about 85% have seen little change in the cost of their insurance plans and millions more people now have coverage. People can now leave their employment to start a business or retire with the assurance that insurance can not be denied because of preexisting conditions. Parents no longer have have to worry about whether their kids will have insurance when they go out on their own. And no one needs to worry about whether their insurance carrier will cut them off if they have major health problems. And over 20 million uninsured now have insurance. Most people have benefited from Obamacare but not all.

Republicans could have used the American Healthcare bill to fix some serious problems in Obamacare but instead they used the bill to change Obamacare in way that it increased the cost of individual insurance and would have left 24 million uninsured. And even if that bill would have passed Obamacare would not have been repealed or replaced.

Commie Care was designed to give likely Democrat voters easier access to healthcare at the expense to likely Republican voters which are the middle-class, upper-middle-class and wealthy. The french fry makers in our country never had such cheap options. But for us working people, we got screwed.

Most of the people on Commie Care are on Medicaid, and a smaller percentage of Americans have private insurance coverage today than in 2007. The only reason "some" did not experience huge rate increases is because those increases are being paid for by everybody else.

The plot was a complete and utter failure. It was also designed that way. We Republicans predicted this tragedy since day one and we are right on track with our predictions. Commie Care is exactly what happens when you mix politics with healthcare.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Oh, so, it's unfair if the middle class has to pay more, namely you, but if people get to have healthcare no matter what their situation, then it's surrendering to Socialism?

I'm not a Socialist at all, but healthcare is something I believe should be socialized.

Now, before you go thinking you're real smart coming out with the surrender to Socialism claim, how about the police, infrastructure, the armed forces, they surrendered to socialism too.

Actually, I prefer to think of it as stopping corruption and unnecessary leeching.

No, the US isn't "that desperate yet", the rich still control the country and still control your mind.... they don't want socialized healthcare, so you don't want it either.

I don't want it because I don't want government having more control over my life. Government (particularly the left) have been trying to get more and more control over people. The two things they have yet to conquer to have that control are healthcare and energy. Once they have total control over those two things, they will then have total control over the people.

The police are local, having a police force is funded by local taxpayers, but not a necessity. Having a police force is optional.

Infrastructure and national security are covered in the US Constitution.

There is no requirement by any government agency to provide healthcare or a healthcare system.

So, you prefer having private companies having control over your life, AND controlling government? Great.

How does the left benefit from having Socialized healthcare exactly?

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Apples are bad, I know apples are bad because my last apple was bad.

But what about all the other apples?

Nope, we can only look at the last apple I ate.

 

[12icer]

Really? Why did about 34 House Republicans say they would NOT vote for Trumpcare? Why does Trumpcare only have a 17% approval rating? Why did over 50 organizations oppose Trumpcare - including AARP, AMA, American Hospital Association, and American Cancer Society? Why?

Groups opposing the American Health Care Act

What exactly does all that have to do with whether or not Obamacare sucks? It's not an either/or proposition. It's possible for BOTH plans to be terrible.

But... if you're a democrat, Obamacare is the best shit since sliced penis pie, and if you're a republican, it's the worst shit since sliced penis pie.

In reality it is neither. People that get their insurance through their employer, Medicaid, or Medicare which is about 85% of the insured, it has had no major impact. Employer provided insurance premiums have only increased 3% to 4% a year, just about equal to the increase in healthcare cost. Medicare coverage and premiums for all but the wealthy has changed little. Medicaid is the same but more people are illegible.

The people that are really effected, about 14% of the insured are the people that buy individual insurance through brokers or through the exchanges. Those that get large subsidies or had serious pre-existing conditions are benefiting. Those with higher incomes and little no subsides are generally paying a lot more for their insurance.

When we are talking about who benefits from Obamacare, it has nothing to do with party lines. People in both parties have benefited and have been hurt by the law.

This is so wrong because the less you have, the easier Commie Care plans can be afforded. Lower income people tend to vote Democrat compared to middle-class to higher income people. So it's clear that this plot was designed to cater to Democrat voters. I'm your typical middle-class person with middle-class income, and there is no way in hell I could ever afford one of these disastrous plans.

Like so many on the right you put ideological beliefs ahead of facts. The vast majority of the insured, about 85% have seen little change in the cost of their insurance plans and millions more people now have coverage. People can now leave their employment to start a business or retire with the assurance that insurance can not be denied because of preexisting conditions. Parents no longer have have to worry about whether their kids will have insurance when they go out on their own. And no one needs to worry about whether their insurance carrier will cut them off if they have major health problems. And over 20 million uninsured now have insurance. Most people have benefited from Obamacare but not all.

Republicans could have used the American Healthcare bill to fix some serious problems in Obamacare but instead they used the bill to change Obamacare in way that it increased the cost of individual insurance and would have left 24 million uninsured. And even if that bill would have passed Obamacare would not have been repealed or replaced.

All of the above is either lies fantasy or conjecture. There is nothing in it that is even remotely close to reality. AND GUESS WHAT NEXT YEAR the cost of healthcare policies is going up under oshitcare by ANOTHER 30 percent. You liberals are the stupidest piles of molecules to ever breathe air.

Your ideology statement is so damn funny I almost fell out of my chair. Your vast majority must be of snails in the gutters, because everyone who had decent insurance has seen their plans go to shit and they are paying much more than they were before. Of course SOME have a PREMIUM that is just about 10 percent higher, but their OP, deductible, and drug costs have gone up ten fold. SO you can pick a statement and lie that it hasn't gone up much, But the actual cost is MUCH HIGHER ACROSS the board unless you are a damn illegal.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What exactly does all that have to do with whether or not Obamacare sucks? It's not an either/or proposition. It's possible for BOTH plans to be terrible.

But... if you're a democrat, Obamacare is the best shit since sliced penis pie, and if you're a republican, it's the worst shit since sliced penis pie.

In reality it is neither. People that get their insurance through their employer, Medicaid, or Medicare which is about 85% of the insured, it has had no major impact. Employer provided insurance premiums have only increased 3% to 4% a year, just about equal to the increase in healthcare cost. Medicare coverage and premiums for all but the wealthy has changed little. Medicaid is the same but more people are illegible.

The people that are really effected, about 14% of the insured are the people that buy individual insurance through brokers or through the exchanges. Those that get large subsidies or had serious pre-existing conditions are benefiting. Those with higher incomes and little no subsides are generally paying a lot more for their insurance.

When we are talking about who benefits from Obamacare, it has nothing to do with party lines. People in both parties have benefited and have been hurt by the law.

This is so wrong because the less you have, the easier Commie Care plans can be afforded. Lower income people tend to vote Democrat compared to middle-class to higher income people. So it's clear that this plot was designed to cater to Democrat voters. I'm your typical middle-class person with middle-class income, and there is no way in hell I could ever afford one of these disastrous plans.

Like so many on the right you put ideological beliefs ahead of facts. The vast majority of the insured, about 85% have seen little change in the cost of their insurance plans and millions more people now have coverage. People can now leave their employment to start a business or retire with the assurance that insurance can not be denied because of preexisting conditions. Parents no longer have have to worry about whether their kids will have insurance when they go out on their own. And no one needs to worry about whether their insurance carrier will cut them off if they have major health problems. And over 20 million uninsured now have insurance. Most people have benefited from Obamacare but not all.

Republicans could have used the American Healthcare bill to fix some serious problems in Obamacare but instead they used the bill to change Obamacare in way that it increased the cost of individual insurance and would have left 24 million uninsured. And even if that bill would have passed Obamacare would not have been repealed or replaced.

Commie Care was designed to give likely Democrat voters easier access to healthcare at the expense to likely Republican voters which are the middle-class, upper-middle-class and wealthy. The french fry makers in our country never had such cheap options. But for us working people, we got screwed.

Most of the people on Commie Care are on Medicaid, and a smaller percentage of Americans have private insurance coverage today than in 2007. The only reason "some" did not experience huge rate increases is because those increases are being paid for by everybody else.

The plot was a complete and utter failure. It was also designed that way. We Republicans predicted this tragedy since day one and we are right on track with our predictions. Commie Care is exactly what happens when you mix politics with healthcare.

Well, you can keep spouting what your masters have told you to spout.....

 

[petro]

Oh, so, it's unfair if the middle class has to pay more, namely you, but if people get to have healthcare no matter what their situation, then it's surrendering to Socialism?

I'm not a Socialist at all, but healthcare is something I believe should be socialized.

Now, before you go thinking you're real smart coming out with the surrender to Socialism claim, how about the police, infrastructure, the armed forces, they surrendered to socialism too.

Actually, I prefer to think of it as stopping corruption and unnecessary leeching.

No, the US isn't "that desperate yet", the rich still control the country and still control your mind.... they don't want socialized healthcare, so you don't want it either.

I don't want it because I don't want government having more control over my life. Government (particularly the left) have been trying to get more and more control over people. The two things they have yet to conquer to have that control are healthcare and energy. Once they have total control over those two things, they will then have total control over the people.

The police are local, having a police force is funded by local taxpayers, but not a necessity. Having a police force is optional.

Infrastructure and national security are covered in the US Constitution.

There is no requirement by any government agency to provide healthcare or a healthcare system.

So, you prefer having private companies having control over your life, AND controlling government? Great.

How does the left benefit from having Socialized healthcare exactly?

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Exactly the boat I have been in for 8 years. Had to opt of of Obummer care, MNSure here. Pay out of pocket and damned if I was signing on to crap insurance with NO care. Best part is a self exemption is allowed on tax return and have never paid the fine. Pelosi should have read that part before it passed.
There is no market as only 3 insurers are left here with large tracts of the country with no choice. The 3 here are all same high premiums, same high deductibles. Some market, some choice. Bankrupt with or without.
Lucky in my case when I marry my gal this summer I can get on her good coverage. How long will that last though with the continued distortion to the market created by government?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't want it because I don't want government having more control over my life. Government (particularly the left) have been trying to get more and more control over people. The two things they have yet to conquer to have that control are healthcare and energy. Once they have total control over those two things, they will then have total control over the people.

The police are local, having a police force is funded by local taxpayers, but not a necessity. Having a police force is optional.

Infrastructure and national security are covered in the US Constitution.

There is no requirement by any government agency to provide healthcare or a healthcare system.

So, you prefer having private companies having control over your life, AND controlling government? Great.

How does the left benefit from having Socialized healthcare exactly?

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Exactly the boat I have been in for 8 years. Had to opt of of Obummer care, MNSure here. Pay out of pocket and damned if I was signing on to crap insurance with NO care. Best part is a self exemption is allowed on tax return and have never paid the fine. Pelosi should have read that part before it passed.
There is no market as only 3 insurers are left here with large tracts of the country with no choice. The 3 here are all same high premiums, same high deductibles. Some market, some choice. Bankrupt with or without.
Lucky in my case when I marry my gal this summer I can get on her good coverage. How long will that last though with the continued distortion to the market created by government?

Like you I've met the exemption every year so I've paid them nothing as of yet. But it's still a pain in the ass to get an exemption and have to copy all that paperwork to send to them. Last year, the US federal government collected over 1.5 billion dollars in fines. Think of that, 1.5 billion dollars sucked out of our economy and given to the filthy federal government.

At my age every year is a gamble to see if I can stay healthy enough not to get buried in medical bills. Until Commie Care came along, I was covered by entire life with preexisting conditions. Leave it to Democrats to once again ruin things for people in order to create as many new government dependents as possible.

All Democrats care about is their power. The people can go to hell as far as they are concerned.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't want it because I don't want government having more control over my life. Government (particularly the left) have been trying to get more and more control over people. The two things they have yet to conquer to have that control are healthcare and energy. Once they have total control over those two things, they will then have total control over the people.

The police are local, having a police force is funded by local taxpayers, but not a necessity. Having a police force is optional.

Infrastructure and national security are covered in the US Constitution.

There is no requirement by any government agency to provide healthcare or a healthcare system.

So, you prefer having private companies having control over your life, AND controlling government? Great.

How does the left benefit from having Socialized healthcare exactly?

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Apples are bad, I know apples are bad because my last apple was bad.

But what about all the other apples?

Nope, we can only look at the last apple I ate.

You're damn right because that's the only one that counts.

My life was fine until the Commies voted for that big-eared punk. Never has one human (or sub-human in this case) done so much personal damage to my life. I wish the worst on him and his family for what he and the other Commies have done to me and my life. It's unforgivable, and it certainly reinforces my hatred of government involvement in any part of my life.

 

[petro]

Speaking of exemptions, the fact that those elites who passed Obummercare felt the need to exempt themselves from the mandate should speak volumes. When you got taxpayer funded prime care, screw those footing the bill. Hell, offer it to non citizens while we are at it. Those who supported this bill are either not affected by its costs and/or are getting a subsidy from it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, you prefer having private companies having control over your life, AND controlling government? Great.

How does the left benefit from having Socialized healthcare exactly?

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Exactly the boat I have been in for 8 years. Had to opt of of Obummer care, MNSure here. Pay out of pocket and damned if I was signing on to crap insurance with NO care. Best part is a self exemption is allowed on tax return and have never paid the fine. Pelosi should have read that part before it passed.
There is no market as only 3 insurers are left here with large tracts of the country with no choice. The 3 here are all same high premiums, same high deductibles. Some market, some choice. Bankrupt with or without.
Lucky in my case when I marry my gal this summer I can get on her good coverage. How long will that last though with the continued distortion to the market created by government?

Like you I've met the exemption every year so I've paid them nothing as of yet. But it's still a pain in the ass to get an exemption and have to copy all that paperwork to send to them. Last year, the US federal government collected over 1.5 billion dollars in fines. Think of that, 1.5 billion dollars sucked out of our economy and given to the filthy federal government.

At my age every year is a gamble to see if I can stay healthy enough not to get buried in medical bills. Until Commie Care came along, I was covered by entire life with preexisting conditions. Leave it to Democrats to once again ruin things for people in order to create as many new government dependents as possible.

All Democrats care about is their power. The people can go to hell as far as they are concerned.

Complaining about $1.5 billion dollars sucked out of the economy, and yet you don't care that insurance companies alone cost 7% of healthcare spending and healthcare spending costs 17% of US GDP. That's about 1.1% of GDP going to health insurance companies alone.

But you don't have a problem with that. But you do have a problem with less money being sucked out of the economy.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, you prefer having private companies having control over your life, AND controlling government? Great.

How does the left benefit from having Socialized healthcare exactly?

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Apples are bad, I know apples are bad because my last apple was bad.

But what about all the other apples?

Nope, we can only look at the last apple I ate.

You're damn right because that's the only one that counts.

My life was fine until the Commies voted for that big-eared punk. Never has one human (or sub-human in this case) done so much personal damage to my life. I wish the worst on him and his family for what he and the other Commies have done to me and my life. It's unforgivable, and it certainly reinforces my hatred of government involvement in any part of my life.

Then why don't you want to go for a system where the costs would be reduced massively? You then shout out that it's communism too, but would save you a packet.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Apples are bad, I know apples are bad because my last apple was bad.

But what about all the other apples?

Nope, we can only look at the last apple I ate.

You're damn right because that's the only one that counts.

My life was fine until the Commies voted for that big-eared punk. Never has one human (or sub-human in this case) done so much personal damage to my life. I wish the worst on him and his family for what he and the other Commies have done to me and my life. It's unforgivable, and it certainly reinforces my hatred of government involvement in any part of my life.

Then why don't you want to go for a system where the costs would be reduced massively? You then shout out that it's communism too, but would save you a packet.

How left of you. Be able to identify a problem, and expect the entity that is the problem to also be the solution.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Cecilie1200]

So, you prefer having private companies having control over your life, AND controlling government? Great.

How does the left benefit from having Socialized healthcare exactly?

In the private sector people have choices. If you don't like the insurance company you have, you can always hire another one. If you don't like the kind of services you receive when you get treatment, you can always choose another provider.

Government healthcare is just that--government. There are no choices, there are no alternatives if you're not happy. You take the healthcare they give you or none at all. If they tell you you're not getting treated unless you lose weight, then you better plan on not eating for a while. If they tell you that you will no longer have coverage unless you quit smoking---something you may have been trying to do your entire life, too bad, you're going to quit or die. If it becomes political again like with Commie Care, and you are Republican, then you're going to spend every last dollar you have getting treatment for yourself and for the Democrats you're also paying healthcare for.

Yes, I do trust private industry far more than government. Private entities strive to earn your business. Government just makes your business--theirs.

Oh, great, people have choices. You can choose between too expensive and way too expensive. That's a choice?

Did you know in the UK people have choices? Yeah, they could potentially choose to go to any doctor in the area, they could also choose which hospital to go to, AND they could choose to go private if they could afford to do so.

You don't seem to know much about government healthcare outside of the US. But hey, you could learn.

Instead you'll just find some phrases that suit your aims, like "choice" and harp on about it as if you can't have choice in the government sector.

Fair enough challenge, so why not use the most recent example--commie care?

So the government took over one-sixth of our economy. Promises ranging from quality coverage to reduced healthcare costs. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your facility, life will never offer more.

Fast forward to today, commie care only offers ONE plan to keep my doctor. They want 25 percent of my net pay to get the plan. It comes with a 7K deductible and a 7.1 out of pocket. In other words, hardly insurance at all.

So there you have it. There is your wonderful government you sing praises for. No thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yep. When your OOP & deductible is so high you will never hit them, you effectively have no insurance.

Exactly. What good would an auto policy be if you had a 10K deductible before the insurance paid anything into your auto wreck? Especially if you are paying 8K a year into the plan? It's worthless.

And let us not forget THIS salient point: I should have a choice about what insurance I get, and I should be the one making the choice.

You really can't reiterate the importance of choice to leftists too often, because their minds simply don't work that way.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Speaking of exemptions, the fact that those elites who passed Obummercare felt the need to exempt themselves from the mandate should speak volumes. When you got taxpayer funded prime care, screw those footing the bill. Hell, offer it to non citizens while we are at it. Those who supported this bill are either not affected by its costs and/or are getting a subsidy from it.

A very good point. As a matter of principle (you leftists in the audience will need to look that up, I know), I oppose any bill that Congress exempts itself from.

 

[MarcATL]

The Department of Health and Human Services inspector general has launched an investigation into the Trump administration’s decision to pull ads encouraging people to sign up for the Affordable Care Act during the enrollment period. By shutting down such outreach, the action could be seen as a stealth way to starve the health plan without legislative authority, critics say.

President Donald Trump’s administration said the ads were a waste of money, but Democrats have characterized the action as sabotage.

More: Inspector General Probes Trump Administration's Move To Pull Obamacare Enrollment Ads

Trump should put his pettiness aside and work with Democrats to fix the glitches in Obamacare. Potitics should be removed from American healthcare. If Trump tries to sabotage Obamacare - then HE will be responsible for its failure!

The Republicans have told us that Obamacare is "imploding" and/or "exploding." The minute I heard that I knew that that was what they were set on making a reality.

Good luck to them.

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