Trump is THE model for a leader (Reuters poll result)

[SavannahMann]

It must break your heart, that the conservative base of the country is flushing the Cheneys, Bushes, Romney & McCain types down the toilet.

We need leaders who will fight for what is best for this country. Leaders who will stand up to China instead of selling us out. Leaders that prefer peace and trade to warmongering. Leaders that love our country instead of preaching it’s racist and evil.

Trump is fine if you like congenital liars, thieves, nepotism, cronyism, rabblerousers, reckless abandonment of their oath to support the constitution, and willing to overthrow elections to win even if they didn't get the votes, and that attack anybody with an opinion different than theirs as the strive for a top down autocratic government model so they can hold their head up with their favorite totalitarian leaders they wish to emulate.
Of course if you believe in the constitution and rule of law, people like him totally blow.

Trump was a completely mainstream politician with completely mainstream policies.


Your hysterical reaction is evidence of how radical you have become, no reflection on him.

Your turning your back on reality and how he operated is evidence of why nobody will trust a trumper in the white house for 8 or 12 years, while they wander in the desert waiting for the meaning of committment constitutional foundations of this country to be re-revealed to them. They may stumble over it someday, but right now they are not even looking for it. They are lost.

"How he operated"? You mean, other than having an odd style, completely fucking normally?

Let's see. He pushed a little harder on trade issues, and deported a little more than norman.


omg.

View attachment 494074

Honestly, my problem with Trump wasn’t so much his achievements, of which there were not many. It was his technique.

Let’s talk about how things are done in the White House. Or really any National Leadership function around the world.

First an idea is proposed. Either to the President, or by the President. At that time the Staff gets busy. They start the research. Lawyers scour books to determine if the proposal would be illegal, or worse Unconstitutional. Political Staffers start talking to Congress, to see how they feel about the proposal in general knowing that most of these things can’t happen without Congressional Action.

Other staffers talk to departments. State for international agreements. Again Lawyers get started to determine if the proposal would violate any Treaty or agreement we have in place. Experts in regions begin to discuss what the proposal might mean to our friends, allies, and enemies. How will they react? Will it cause problems?

Now, all of this takes time. Finally when the proposal has been checked, double checked, considered and lengthy briefings have taken place, the announcement is made. The Press Secretary announces that the Proposal is being made. It will become policy. Delicate and considered leaks have already gotten the press leaning that way.

The President might make a statement, but usually it is handled through the Press Secretary. The Press Secretary is an expert in spinning the news to the advantage of the President.

Here is how Trump worked. Trump made a proposal. The Staff started to research and reported back that it couldn’t work exactly the way Trump wanted. So they would give him what they could. Trump would agree. But before the announcement could be made, Trump was on Twitter announcing the original policy would be enacted.

I always felt sorry for the Press Secretary. They must have felt like they spent all their time in a leaking boat bailing water out as fast as they could.

Trump’s big achievements were not big, and hardly qualified as achievements.

Take Trade. NAFTA was renamed USMC. But what changed? Cars are still being manufactured in Mexico and shipped into the US by rail. Everything manufactured in Mexico before the name change is still being manufactured today. In fact, Manufacturing was and is increasing in Mexico. Just as it was before the name change.

The changes to NAFTA in becoming the USMCA were minor. You would have thought that Trump had negotiated an end to war the way the damned thing was celebrated by in your face rightists.

This was the four years of Trump. His achievements were not all that impressive, and his polarization was enormous. After his first month in office, I told the wife somebody has to go and smash his phone to get him off of Twitter. Getting his message out is exactly what the Press Secretary is supposed to do.

Now, look at the Right today. Celebrating those cities, and states, that declare that they will not enforce Federal Firearms laws. Those same idiots were demanding that cities that refused to enforce Federal Immigration law be tried as Traitors and hung.

Their argument on weapons is accurate. For some reason that accuracy and truth did not sway them one bit in their war against illegal immigrants.

I told people before the election. No matter who wins there will be trouble. Because both sides had declared that the only way they could lose is if the other side cheated.

I’ve made this prediction before too. After the midterms, we’re going to have President Harris. Biden is going to step down, and give Harris two years to become the incumbent, and allow her to serve as President for ten years.

 

[jknowgood]

It must break your heart, that the conservative base of the country is flushing the Cheneys, Bushes, Romney & McCain types down the toilet.

We need leaders who will fight for what is best for this country. Leaders who will stand up to China instead of selling us out. Leaders that prefer peace and trade to warmongering. Leaders that love our country instead of preaching it’s racist and evil.

Yup. It's a cult alright.

Complete with Dear Leader.

Have you removed Obama's pens from your mouth yet? Trump looked out for all Americans, obama spent his first year flying around the world apologizing for our Greatness.

 

[Correll]

And the Trumpsters bitch and moan when we discuss him.

Their TDS is intense, like nothing this country has ever seen.

I have no problem with discussing Trump. I do have a problem when you people say crazy shit or smear good people as fucking nazis based on bullshit.

But I don't call you people Nazis.

Maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you don't understand my posts. But it's not my job to explain them to you.

I understand perfectly. You smear us as nazis and then pretend you didn't when called on it.

Pretty standard for your side.

There is no way for us to have our interests or concerns discussed in any public debate.


We are constantly shouted down by people screaming slurs at us like retarded assholes.

QUESTION: Did I call you a retarded asshole or did I not?

That is what talking to you is like. THat is understanding you.

 

[surada]

It must break your heart, that the conservative base of the country is flushing the Cheneys, Bushes, Romney & McCain types down the toilet.

We need leaders who will fight for what is best for this country. Leaders who will stand up to China instead of selling us out. Leaders that prefer peace and trade to warmongering. Leaders that love our country instead of preaching it’s racist and evil.

Trump is fine if you like congenital liars, thieves, nepotism, cronyism, rabblerousers, reckless abandonment of their oath to support the constitution, and willing to overthrow elections to win even if they didn't get the votes, and that attack anybody with an opinion different than theirs as the strive for a top down autocratic government model so they can hold their head up with their favorite totalitarian leaders they wish to emulate.
Of course if you believe in the constitution and rule of law, people like him totally blow.

Trump was a completely mainstream politician with completely mainstream policies.


Your hysterical reaction is evidence of how radical you have become, no reflection on him.

Your turning your back on reality and how he operated is evidence of why nobody will trust a trumper in the white house for 8 or 12 years, while they wander in the desert waiting for the meaning of committment constitutional foundations of this country to be re-revealed to them. They may stumble over it someday, but right now they are not even looking for it. They are lost.

"How he operated"? You mean, other than having an odd style, completely fucking normally?

Let's see. He pushed a little harder on trade issues, and deported a little more than norman.


omg.

View attachment 494074

Honestly, my problem with Trump wasn’t so much his achievements, of which there were not many. It was his technique.

Let’s talk about how things are done in the White House. Or really any National Leadership function around the world.

First an idea is proposed. Either to the President, or by the President. At that time the Staff gets busy. They start the research. Lawyers scour books to determine if the proposal would be illegal, or worse Unconstitutional. Political Staffers start talking to Congress, to see how they feel about the proposal in general knowing that most of these things can’t happen without Congressional Action.

Other staffers talk to departments. State for international agreements. Again Lawyers get started to determine if the proposal would violate any Treaty or agreement we have in place. Experts in regions begin to discuss what the proposal might mean to our friends, allies, and enemies. How will they react? Will it cause problems?

Now, all of this takes time. Finally when the proposal has been checked, double checked, considered and lengthy briefings have taken place, the announcement is made. The Press Secretary announces that the Proposal is being made. It will become policy. Delicate and considered leaks have already gotten the press leaning that way.

The President might make a statement, but usually it is handled through the Press Secretary. The Press Secretary is an expert in spinning the news to the advantage of the President.

Here is how Trump worked. Trump made a proposal. The Staff started to research and reported back that it couldn’t work exactly the way Trump wanted. So they would give him what they could. Trump would agree. But before the announcement could be made, Trump was on Twitter announcing the original policy would be enacted.

I always felt sorry for the Press Secretary. They must have felt like they spent all their time in a leaking boat bailing water out as fast as they could.

Trump’s big achievements were not big, and hardly qualified as achievements.

Take Trade. NAFTA was renamed USMC. But what changed? Cars are still being manufactured in Mexico and shipped into the US by rail. Everything manufactured in Mexico before the name change is still being manufactured today. In fact, Manufacturing was and is increasing in Mexico. Just as it was before the name change.

The changes to NAFTA in becoming the USMCA were minor. You would have thought that Trump had negotiated an end to war the way the damned thing was celebrated by in your face rightists.

This was the four years of Trump. His achievements were not all that impressive, and his polarization was enormous. After his first month in office, I told the wife somebody has to go and smash his phone to get him off of Twitter. Getting his message out is exactly what the Press Secretary is supposed to do.

Now, look at the Right today. Celebrating those cities, and states, that declare that they will not enforce Federal Firearms laws. Those same idiots were demanding that cities that refused to enforce Federal Immigration law be tried as Traitors and hung.

Their argument on weapons is accurate. For some reason that accuracy and truth did not sway them one bit in their war against illegal immigrants.

I told people before the election. No matter who wins there will be trouble. Because both sides had declared that the only way they could lose is if the other side cheated.

I’ve made this prediction before too. After the midterms, we’re going to have President Harris. Biden is going to step down, and give Harris two years to become the incumbent, and allow her to serve as President for ten years.

Well done.. This post deserves it's own thread.

 

[Correll]

It must break your heart, that the conservative base of the country is flushing the Cheneys, Bushes, Romney & McCain types down the toilet.

We need leaders who will fight for what is best for this country. Leaders who will stand up to China instead of selling us out. Leaders that prefer peace and trade to warmongering. Leaders that love our country instead of preaching it’s racist and evil.

Trump is fine if you like congenital liars, thieves, nepotism, cronyism, rabblerousers, reckless abandonment of their oath to support the constitution, and willing to overthrow elections to win even if they didn't get the votes, and that attack anybody with an opinion different than theirs as the strive for a top down autocratic government model so they can hold their head up with their favorite totalitarian leaders they wish to emulate.
Of course if you believe in the constitution and rule of law, people like him totally blow.

Trump was a completely mainstream politician with completely mainstream policies.


Your hysterical reaction is evidence of how radical you have become, no reflection on him.

Your turning your back on reality and how he operated is evidence of why nobody will trust a trumper in the white house for 8 or 12 years, while they wander in the desert waiting for the meaning of committment constitutional foundations of this country to be re-revealed to them. They may stumble over it someday, but right now they are not even looking for it. They are lost.

"How he operated"? You mean, other than having an odd style, completely fucking normally?

Let's see. He pushed a little harder on trade issues, and deported a little more than norman.


omg.

View attachment 494074

Norman who? Trump didn't deport as many as Obama. Not sure he even came up to Bush. If deportation is your thing, I have read that Joe deported around 300,000 in his first 100 days.

Kind of telling that you did not try to support your pretense that "how he operated" was so bad. You really quick to move on to some other subject.

Did you try a few times, and realize that you couldn't do it, at all?

I can cite about a million examples, from "unimportant" to "holy shit". I'll start with this one.

He tried to get the results of the last election decertified. This despite losing every election challenge and without any rational reason to do so. Going as far as saying during a rally that his supporters should go to the capitol to try to stop it. Something that turned violent.

I think that is both an unprecedented and wholly undemocratic way to operate.

That election, with it's insane level of absentee ballots, was unprecedented and questionable.

From what I heard, the courts refused to listen to the evidence and threw the challenges out on procedural grounds or legalistic technical reasons, not because the evidence failed to prove anything.

Calling for a protest to put political pressure on Congress, to take action he supported, ie decertify, is not unprecedented or undemocratic.


Trump is a fighter. That is unusual in modern times, at least on the right. But other than his style, he is a mainstream politician with mainstream political positions.

 

[Mr Natural]

Yeah, Trump was a real Alpha Male. I guess that's obvious, huh?

Complete with makeup and hairspray.

 

[surada]

It must break your heart, that the conservative base of the country is flushing the Cheneys, Bushes, Romney & McCain types down the toilet.

We need leaders who will fight for what is best for this country. Leaders who will stand up to China instead of selling us out. Leaders that prefer peace and trade to warmongering. Leaders that love our country instead of preaching it’s racist and evil.

Trump is fine if you like congenital liars, thieves, nepotism, cronyism, rabblerousers, reckless abandonment of their oath to support the constitution, and willing to overthrow elections to win even if they didn't get the votes, and that attack anybody with an opinion different than theirs as the strive for a top down autocratic government model so they can hold their head up with their favorite totalitarian leaders they wish to emulate.
Of course if you believe in the constitution and rule of law, people like him totally blow.

Trump was a completely mainstream politician with completely mainstream policies.


Your hysterical reaction is evidence of how radical you have become, no reflection on him.

Your turning your back on reality and how he operated is evidence of why nobody will trust a trumper in the white house for 8 or 12 years, while they wander in the desert waiting for the meaning of committment constitutional foundations of this country to be re-revealed to them. They may stumble over it someday, but right now they are not even looking for it. They are lost.

"How he operated"? You mean, other than having an odd style, completely fucking normally?

Let's see. He pushed a little harder on trade issues, and deported a little more than norman.


omg.

View attachment 494074

Norman who? Trump didn't deport as many as Obama. Not sure he even came up to Bush. If deportation is your thing, I have read that Joe deported around 300,000 in his first 100 days.

Kind of telling that you did not try to support your pretense that "how he operated" was so bad. You really quick to move on to some other subject.

Did you try a few times, and realize that you couldn't do it, at all?

I can cite about a million examples, from "unimportant" to "holy shit". I'll start with this one.

He tried to get the results of the last election decertified. This despite losing every election challenge and without any rational reason to do so. Going as far as saying during a rally that his supporters should go to the capitol to try to stop it. Something that turned violent.

I think that is both an unprecedented and wholly undemocratic way to operate.

That election, with it's insane level of absentee ballots, was unprecedented and questionable.

From what I heard, the courts refused to listen to the evidence and threw the challenges out on procedural grounds or legalistic technical reasons, not because the evidence failed to prove anything.

Calling for a protest to put political pressure on Congress, to take action he supported, ie decertify, is not unprecedented or undemocratic.


Trump is a fighter. That is unusual in modern times, at least on the right. But other than his style, he is a mainstream politician with mainstream political positions.

Trump is dumb, uneducated, lazy and belligerent. He not much of a man. He's always done things half-assed on a whim.. Look at his track record over the past 40 years.

 

[surada]

Yeah, Trump was a real Alpha Male. I guess that's obvious, huh?

Complete with makeup and hairspray.

And diapers since Celebrity Apprentise.

 

[Correll]

It must break your heart, that the conservative base of the country is flushing the Cheneys, Bushes, Romney & McCain types down the toilet.

We need leaders who will fight for what is best for this country. Leaders who will stand up to China instead of selling us out. Leaders that prefer peace and trade to warmongering. Leaders that love our country instead of preaching it’s racist and evil.

Trump is fine if you like congenital liars, thieves, nepotism, cronyism, rabblerousers, reckless abandonment of their oath to support the constitution, and willing to overthrow elections to win even if they didn't get the votes, and that attack anybody with an opinion different than theirs as the strive for a top down autocratic government model so they can hold their head up with their favorite totalitarian leaders they wish to emulate.
Of course if you believe in the constitution and rule of law, people like him totally blow.

Trump was a completely mainstream politician with completely mainstream policies.


Your hysterical reaction is evidence of how radical you have become, no reflection on him.

Your turning your back on reality and how he operated is evidence of why nobody will trust a trumper in the white house for 8 or 12 years, while they wander in the desert waiting for the meaning of committment constitutional foundations of this country to be re-revealed to them. They may stumble over it someday, but right now they are not even looking for it. They are lost.

"How he operated"? You mean, other than having an odd style, completely fucking normally?

Let's see. He pushed a little harder on trade issues, and deported a little more than norman.


omg.

View attachment 494074

Honestly, my problem with Trump wasn’t so much his achievements, of which there were not many. It was his technique.

Let’s talk about how things are done in the White House. Or really any National Leadership function around the world.

First an idea is proposed. Either to the President, or by the President. At that time the Staff gets busy. They start the research. Lawyers scour books to determine if the proposal would be illegal, or worse Unconstitutional. Political Staffers start talking to Congress, to see how they feel about the proposal in general knowing that most of these things can’t happen without Congressional Action.

Other staffers talk to departments. State for international agreements. Again Lawyers get started to determine if the proposal would violate any Treaty or agreement we have in place. Experts in regions begin to discuss what the proposal might mean to our friends, allies, and enemies. How will they react? Will it cause problems?

Now, all of this takes time. Finally when the proposal has been checked, double checked, considered and lengthy briefings have taken place, the announcement is made. The Press Secretary announces that the Proposal is being made. It will become policy. Delicate and considered leaks have already gotten the press leaning that way.

The President might make a statement, but usually it is handled through the Press Secretary. The Press Secretary is an expert in spinning the news to the advantage of the President.

Here is how Trump worked. Trump made a proposal. The Staff started to research and reported back that it couldn’t work exactly the way Trump wanted. So they would give him what they could. Trump would agree. But before the announcement could be made, Trump was on Twitter announcing the original policy would be enacted.

I always felt sorry for the Press Secretary. They must have felt like they spent all their time in a leaking boat bailing water out as fast as they could.

Trump’s big achievements were not big, and hardly qualified as achievements.

Take Trade. NAFTA was renamed USMC. But what changed? Cars are still being manufactured in Mexico and shipped into the US by rail. Everything manufactured in Mexico before the name change is still being manufactured today. In fact, Manufacturing was and is increasing in Mexico. Just as it was before the name change.

The changes to NAFTA in becoming the USMCA were minor. You would have thought that Trump had negotiated an end to war the way the damned thing was celebrated by in your face rightists.

This was the four years of Trump. His achievements were not all that impressive, and his polarization was enormous. After his first month in office, I told the wife somebody has to go and smash his phone to get him off of Twitter. Getting his message out is exactly what the Press Secretary is supposed to do.

Now, look at the Right today. Celebrating those cities, and states, that declare that they will not enforce Federal Firearms laws. Those same idiots were demanding that cities that refused to enforce Federal Immigration law be tried as Traitors and hung.

Their argument on weapons is accurate. For some reason that accuracy and truth did not sway them one bit in their war against illegal immigrants.

I told people before the election. No matter who wins there will be trouble. Because both sides had declared that the only way they could lose is if the other side cheated.

I’ve made this prediction before too. After the midterms, we’re going to have President Harris. Biden is going to step down, and give Harris two years to become the incumbent, and allow her to serve as President for ten years.

Except the trend of increasing partisanship was well established before Trump.

Antifa was using violence to shut down conservatives speakers long before Trump. WITH THE SUPPORT OF MAINSTREAM DEMS AND LIBERALS.


And the violent resistance, the DEEP STATE shit by the feds with the Steele Dossier? That was all up and running BEFORE Trump even stepped into the oval office.


Your complaints might be valid. They are certainly not hysterical like most, and I appreciate that.

BUT, they do not match up with the timeline.

 

[Correll]

Yeah, Trump was a real Alpha Male. I guess that's obvious, huh?

Complete with makeup and hairspray.

All politicians do that shit. Attacking Trump for it, is not reasonable.

 

[Correll]

It must break your heart, that the conservative base of the country is flushing the Cheneys, Bushes, Romney & McCain types down the toilet.

We need leaders who will fight for what is best for this country. Leaders who will stand up to China instead of selling us out. Leaders that prefer peace and trade to warmongering. Leaders that love our country instead of preaching it’s racist and evil.

Trump is fine if you like congenital liars, thieves, nepotism, cronyism, rabblerousers, reckless abandonment of their oath to support the constitution, and willing to overthrow elections to win even if they didn't get the votes, and that attack anybody with an opinion different than theirs as the strive for a top down autocratic government model so they can hold their head up with their favorite totalitarian leaders they wish to emulate.
Of course if you believe in the constitution and rule of law, people like him totally blow.

Trump was a completely mainstream politician with completely mainstream policies.


Your hysterical reaction is evidence of how radical you have become, no reflection on him.

Your turning your back on reality and how he operated is evidence of why nobody will trust a trumper in the white house for 8 or 12 years, while they wander in the desert waiting for the meaning of committment constitutional foundations of this country to be re-revealed to them. They may stumble over it someday, but right now they are not even looking for it. They are lost.

"How he operated"? You mean, other than having an odd style, completely fucking normally?

Let's see. He pushed a little harder on trade issues, and deported a little more than norman.


omg.

View attachment 494074

Norman who? Trump didn't deport as many as Obama. Not sure he even came up to Bush. If deportation is your thing, I have read that Joe deported around 300,000 in his first 100 days.

Kind of telling that you did not try to support your pretense that "how he operated" was so bad. You really quick to move on to some other subject.

Did you try a few times, and realize that you couldn't do it, at all?

I can cite about a million examples, from "unimportant" to "holy shit". I'll start with this one.

He tried to get the results of the last election decertified. This despite losing every election challenge and without any rational reason to do so. Going as far as saying during a rally that his supporters should go to the capitol to try to stop it. Something that turned violent.

I think that is both an unprecedented and wholly undemocratic way to operate.

That election, with it's insane level of absentee ballots, was unprecedented and questionable.

From what I heard, the courts refused to listen to the evidence and threw the challenges out on procedural grounds or legalistic technical reasons, not because the evidence failed to prove anything.

Calling for a protest to put political pressure on Congress, to take action he supported, ie decertify, is not unprecedented or undemocratic.


Trump is a fighter. That is unusual in modern times, at least on the right. But other than his style, he is a mainstream politician with mainstream political positions.

Trump is dumb, uneducated, lazy and belligerent. He not much of a man. He's always done things half-assed on a whim.. Look at his track record over the past 40 years.

You mean where he has been a success in three incredibly competitive fields?

Looks pretty impressive to me.

"Dumb"? LOL!!! Only a liar or a fool would say something like that.

 

[forkup]

It must break your heart, that the conservative base of the country is flushing the Cheneys, Bushes, Romney & McCain types down the toilet.

We need leaders who will fight for what is best for this country. Leaders who will stand up to China instead of selling us out. Leaders that prefer peace and trade to warmongering. Leaders that love our country instead of preaching it’s racist and evil.

Trump is fine if you like congenital liars, thieves, nepotism, cronyism, rabblerousers, reckless abandonment of their oath to support the constitution, and willing to overthrow elections to win even if they didn't get the votes, and that attack anybody with an opinion different than theirs as the strive for a top down autocratic government model so they can hold their head up with their favorite totalitarian leaders they wish to emulate.
Of course if you believe in the constitution and rule of law, people like him totally blow.

Trump was a completely mainstream politician with completely mainstream policies.


Your hysterical reaction is evidence of how radical you have become, no reflection on him.

Your turning your back on reality and how he operated is evidence of why nobody will trust a trumper in the white house for 8 or 12 years, while they wander in the desert waiting for the meaning of committment constitutional foundations of this country to be re-revealed to them. They may stumble over it someday, but right now they are not even looking for it. They are lost.

"How he operated"? You mean, other than having an odd style, completely fucking normally?

Let's see. He pushed a little harder on trade issues, and deported a little more than norman.


omg.

View attachment 494074

Norman who? Trump didn't deport as many as Obama. Not sure he even came up to Bush. If deportation is your thing, I have read that Joe deported around 300,000 in his first 100 days.

Kind of telling that you did not try to support your pretense that "how he operated" was so bad. You really quick to move on to some other subject.

Did you try a few times, and realize that you couldn't do it, at all?

I can cite about a million examples, from "unimportant" to "holy shit". I'll start with this one.

He tried to get the results of the last election decertified. This despite losing every election challenge and without any rational reason to do so. Going as far as saying during a rally that his supporters should go to the capitol to try to stop it. Something that turned violent.

I think that is both an unprecedented and wholly undemocratic way to operate.

That election, with it's insane level of absentee ballots, was unprecedented and questionable.

From what I heard, the courts refused to listen to the evidence and threw the challenges out on procedural grounds or legalistic technical reasons, not because the evidence failed to prove anything.

Calling for a protest to put political pressure on Congress, to take action he supported, ie decertify, is not unprecedented or undemocratic.


Trump is a fighter. That is unusual in modern times, at least on the right. But other than his style, he is a mainstream politician with mainstream political positions.

Then you heard wrong. There was no actual evidence of voter fraud presented. "The Kraken" being a notable exception. All the other objection were procedural in nature and were dismissed across the board.

Saying the merit wasn't ruled upon is both untrue and very much irrelevant. Courts routinely dismiss cases for a host of reasons something that in itself is a ruling.

And even IF all of that wouldn't be true it still wouldn't change the fact that the President of the United States literally refused to accept the results of the election. And took steps to what amounts to an overthrowing of the legitimately elected president.

Give me one precedent at any time where that happened.

Hell even during Lincoln's election the South didn't argue he wasn't legitimately elected. They argued that if the US elected him they didn't want to be part of the US. And that resulted in civil war.

 

[surada]

It must break your heart, that the conservative base of the country is flushing the Cheneys, Bushes, Romney & McCain types down the toilet.

We need leaders who will fight for what is best for this country. Leaders who will stand up to China instead of selling us out. Leaders that prefer peace and trade to warmongering. Leaders that love our country instead of preaching it’s racist and evil.

Trump is fine if you like congenital liars, thieves, nepotism, cronyism, rabblerousers, reckless abandonment of their oath to support the constitution, and willing to overthrow elections to win even if they didn't get the votes, and that attack anybody with an opinion different than theirs as the strive for a top down autocratic government model so they can hold their head up with their favorite totalitarian leaders they wish to emulate.
Of course if you believe in the constitution and rule of law, people like him totally blow.

Trump was a completely mainstream politician with completely mainstream policies.


Your hysterical reaction is evidence of how radical you have become, no reflection on him.

Your turning your back on reality and how he operated is evidence of why nobody will trust a trumper in the white house for 8 or 12 years, while they wander in the desert waiting for the meaning of committment constitutional foundations of this country to be re-revealed to them. They may stumble over it someday, but right now they are not even looking for it. They are lost.

"How he operated"? You mean, other than having an odd style, completely fucking normally?

Let's see. He pushed a little harder on trade issues, and deported a little more than norman.


omg.

View attachment 494074

Norman who? Trump didn't deport as many as Obama. Not sure he even came up to Bush. If deportation is your thing, I have read that Joe deported around 300,000 in his first 100 days.

Kind of telling that you did not try to support your pretense that "how he operated" was so bad. You really quick to move on to some other subject.

Did you try a few times, and realize that you couldn't do it, at all?

I can cite about a million examples, from "unimportant" to "holy shit". I'll start with this one.

He tried to get the results of the last election decertified. This despite losing every election challenge and without any rational reason to do so. Going as far as saying during a rally that his supporters should go to the capitol to try to stop it. Something that turned violent.

I think that is both an unprecedented and wholly undemocratic way to operate.

That election, with it's insane level of absentee ballots, was unprecedented and questionable.

From what I heard, the courts refused to listen to the evidence and threw the challenges out on procedural grounds or legalistic technical reasons, not because the evidence failed to prove anything.

Calling for a protest to put political pressure on Congress, to take action he supported, ie decertify, is not unprecedented or undemocratic.


Trump is a fighter. That is unusual in modern times, at least on the right. But other than his style, he is a mainstream politician with mainstream political positions.

Trump is dumb, uneducated, lazy and belligerent. He not much of a man. He's always done things half-assed on a whim.. Look at his track record over the past 40 years.

You mean where he has been a success in three incredibly competitive fields?

Looks pretty impressive to me.

"Dumb"? LOL!!! Only a liar or a fool would say something like that.

His father bailed him out repeatedly because he's no good at construction and development. Trump NEVER does his due dilligence. He's had some success as a promoter, but he gets bored easily.

Building his casinos on the wrong side of town is an example. Trump university is another. He even cheated Veterans with his Trump Foundation.

He's cheated employees, contractors, vendors, investors and bankers and wives his whole life and has been involved in 4,000 lawsuits with second rate lawyers because he doesn't listen to them or pay his bills.

 

[SavannahMann]

It must break your heart, that the conservative base of the country is flushing the Cheneys, Bushes, Romney & McCain types down the toilet.

We need leaders who will fight for what is best for this country. Leaders who will stand up to China instead of selling us out. Leaders that prefer peace and trade to warmongering. Leaders that love our country instead of preaching it’s racist and evil.

Trump is fine if you like congenital liars, thieves, nepotism, cronyism, rabblerousers, reckless abandonment of their oath to support the constitution, and willing to overthrow elections to win even if they didn't get the votes, and that attack anybody with an opinion different than theirs as the strive for a top down autocratic government model so they can hold their head up with their favorite totalitarian leaders they wish to emulate.
Of course if you believe in the constitution and rule of law, people like him totally blow.

Trump was a completely mainstream politician with completely mainstream policies.


Your hysterical reaction is evidence of how radical you have become, no reflection on him.

Your turning your back on reality and how he operated is evidence of why nobody will trust a trumper in the white house for 8 or 12 years, while they wander in the desert waiting for the meaning of committment constitutional foundations of this country to be re-revealed to them. They may stumble over it someday, but right now they are not even looking for it. They are lost.

"How he operated"? You mean, other than having an odd style, completely fucking normally?

Let's see. He pushed a little harder on trade issues, and deported a little more than norman.


omg.

View attachment 494074

Honestly, my problem with Trump wasn’t so much his achievements, of which there were not many. It was his technique.

Let’s talk about how things are done in the White House. Or really any National Leadership function around the world.

First an idea is proposed. Either to the President, or by the President. At that time the Staff gets busy. They start the research. Lawyers scour books to determine if the proposal would be illegal, or worse Unconstitutional. Political Staffers start talking to Congress, to see how they feel about the proposal in general knowing that most of these things can’t happen without Congressional Action.

Other staffers talk to departments. State for international agreements. Again Lawyers get started to determine if the proposal would violate any Treaty or agreement we have in place. Experts in regions begin to discuss what the proposal might mean to our friends, allies, and enemies. How will they react? Will it cause problems?

Now, all of this takes time. Finally when the proposal has been checked, double checked, considered and lengthy briefings have taken place, the announcement is made. The Press Secretary announces that the Proposal is being made. It will become policy. Delicate and considered leaks have already gotten the press leaning that way.

The President might make a statement, but usually it is handled through the Press Secretary. The Press Secretary is an expert in spinning the news to the advantage of the President.

Here is how Trump worked. Trump made a proposal. The Staff started to research and reported back that it couldn’t work exactly the way Trump wanted. So they would give him what they could. Trump would agree. But before the announcement could be made, Trump was on Twitter announcing the original policy would be enacted.

I always felt sorry for the Press Secretary. They must have felt like they spent all their time in a leaking boat bailing water out as fast as they could.

Trump’s big achievements were not big, and hardly qualified as achievements.

Take Trade. NAFTA was renamed USMC. But what changed? Cars are still being manufactured in Mexico and shipped into the US by rail. Everything manufactured in Mexico before the name change is still being manufactured today. In fact, Manufacturing was and is increasing in Mexico. Just as it was before the name change.

The changes to NAFTA in becoming the USMCA were minor. You would have thought that Trump had negotiated an end to war the way the damned thing was celebrated by in your face rightists.

This was the four years of Trump. His achievements were not all that impressive, and his polarization was enormous. After his first month in office, I told the wife somebody has to go and smash his phone to get him off of Twitter. Getting his message out is exactly what the Press Secretary is supposed to do.

Now, look at the Right today. Celebrating those cities, and states, that declare that they will not enforce Federal Firearms laws. Those same idiots were demanding that cities that refused to enforce Federal Immigration law be tried as Traitors and hung.

Their argument on weapons is accurate. For some reason that accuracy and truth did not sway them one bit in their war against illegal immigrants.

I told people before the election. No matter who wins there will be trouble. Because both sides had declared that the only way they could lose is if the other side cheated.

I’ve made this prediction before too. After the midterms, we’re going to have President Harris. Biden is going to step down, and give Harris two years to become the incumbent, and allow her to serve as President for ten years.

Except the trend of increasing partisanship was well established before Trump.

Antifa was using violence to shut down conservatives speakers long before Trump. WITH THE SUPPORT OF MAINSTREAM DEMS AND LIBERALS.


And the violent resistance, the DEEP STATE shit by the feds with the Steele Dossier? That was all up and running BEFORE Trump even stepped into the oval office.


Your complaints might be valid. They are certainly not hysterical like most, and I appreciate that.

BUT, they do not match up with the timeline.

What you call Deep State is the system that has been used through the 20th Century. And since.

Let’s take a moment and explain that. The “Deep State” is nothing more than the established bureaucracy. But let’s ask ourselves how it got there.

Congress passes laws and leaves tons of work to the lower levels. It is often phrased as the Secretary of Treasury will determine and regulate the application of tax law. It is much more verbose. But this is the genesis of Regulations and Interpretation of law.

One quick example. Before the Vegas shooting the devices known as Bump Stocks were legal. The ATF had determined they were not fully automatic rifles. After the shooting. The ATF decided they were automatic rifles. They were instantly illegal. No act of Congress. No signing ceremony in the Rose Garden. Nothing. Just an administrative decision.

Now the Courts by similar laws have generally deferred to the various agencies. The argument is that they know more about the subject. So finding one of those rules illegal or unconstitutional is not easy. There was one victory a couple years ago where a man challenged the serial number requirement on an AR platform. The Judge agreed. The ATF rule had no basis in law.

This is where the regulations come from. And you can expect that the various departments will vigorously defend those regulations. Because they are based in law.

So the “Deep State” is someone defending his job and department.

Now on to what you really mean. The Steel dossier. The flawed warrant. All of it.

For decades people have complained about the FBI doing just that. The long history of abuses by the FBI is well documented. From junk science to flat out lies. They have not been the premier law enforcement agency of lore and legend during my five decades on earth.

What has the Right always maintained? If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. When the FBI was caught breaking into houses and businesses they created the FISA court to give the FBI the legal authority to do what they were already doing. We can’t let criminals escape justice.

What outraged the right was this system has been used against you. Not just them as was intended.

Look at the threads. Every time a Trumper or White Wing or Right Wing describes himself. It is always as a Good American. A Real American. If a majority disagree they aren’t Real Americans like us.

For a century we have written the laws to give the various departments power. Why are we surprised when that power is abused. It has been my entire life. It goes back to Hoover and the blackmail files he kept.

But you and others on the Right don’t want to end the “Deep State”. You want to use it against others. You want it to be a weapon in your arsenal. A tool at your disposal. Not used against you. You are a Real American. A Good American.

This very subject is one of the reasons I did not vote in 2020. I voted for Trump in 16. But I abstained in 2020.

Trump saw first hand the abuses that many citizens have endured. Instead of calling for an end to them. Instead of demanding legislation to prosecute Cops who provide lies to Judges on warrants. Instead of destroying the FBI and perhaps starting over with several smaller and less powerful agencies. He and you screamed Deep State.

Trump had the power to declassify entire programs. To release documents on millions of known abuses. Yet he merely put his own people in charge. It is a useful tool after all. One you can use against your enemies.

When Trump put these guys in charge. They were awesome. Brilliant. The kind of real Americans we needed. Then those people did not do what Trump wanted and they were Deep State plants.

Even now you and the Right won’t admit that every single Agent of these agencies does this sort of thing. You want to pretend it is a few. Democrats. Socialists. They are fucking it up.

Nobody on the Right wants to end the Deep State. They just want to have it to go after their political enemies. I would destroy it. I would end classified projects. I’d release them to the press. I’d let America know what their Government has been doing to them for decades. I’d demand the Congress disestablish the FBI. And I’d appoint the head of the ACLU to the Justice Department. I’d tell him he has one job. Establish iron clad protections for our Civil Rights.

The Deep State isn’t a couple people. It is a mindset that has existed for a century.

 

[Crepitus]

It must break your heart, that the conservative base of the country is flushing the Cheneys, Bushes, Romney & McCain types down the toilet.

It breaks the heart of anyone with half a brain and a love of their country to see one of the two major parties descending spiral of hatred, racism, violence, and backbiting.

 

[Jets]

Not exactly surprised that Donald Trump is the luminary for the Republican Party...

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Topline Findings from the latest Reuters/Ipsos poll

• Half of Republicans believe former President Donald Trump should be the role model for the Republican party.
• Sixty-two percent of Republicans said they had little or no interest in joining a conservative political party run by former Republican leaders who have been critical of Donald Trump.
• Meanwhile, 7 in 10 said they would be somewhat or very interested in hearing what Trump thinks about current events.
• These results are indicative of the influence that Trump continues to hold over the Republican party and why House Republicans felt that Liz Cheney, who was outwardly critical of Trump, needed to be removed.
• But not all Republicans agree with this; 61% agreed that the Republican party is stronger when it embraces both supporters and critics of Trump.

View attachment 494037

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-05/Reuters%20Ipsos%20News%20Issue%20Poll%20%234%20Topline%20%26%20Write-up%20-%20The%20GOP-%207%20May%20thru%2010%20May%202021_0.pdf

We discussed this before. Trump is CEO material. You're not. CEOs make tough decisions even if they aren't popular.

 

[surada]

Not exactly surprised that Donald Trump is the luminary for the Republican Party...

Sad, isn't it?

 

[surada]

Topline Findings from the latest Reuters/Ipsos poll

• Half of Republicans believe former President Donald Trump should be the role model for the Republican party.
• Sixty-two percent of Republicans said they had little or no interest in joining a conservative political party run by former Republican leaders who have been critical of Donald Trump.
• Meanwhile, 7 in 10 said they would be somewhat or very interested in hearing what Trump thinks about current events.
• These results are indicative of the influence that Trump continues to hold over the Republican party and why House Republicans felt that Liz Cheney, who was outwardly critical of Trump, needed to be removed.
• But not all Republicans agree with this; 61% agreed that the Republican party is stronger when it embraces both supporters and critics of Trump.

View attachment 494037

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-05/Reuters%20Ipsos%20News%20Issue%20Poll%20%234%20Topline%20%26%20Write-up%20-%20The%20GOP-%207%20May%20thru%2010%20May%202021_0.pdf

We discussed this before. Trump is CEO material. You're not. CEOs make tough decisions even if they aren't popular.

Nope, Trump is NOT CEO material. Trump was always a seat of the pants mom and pop shop.. Rex Tillerson was CEO material.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Topline Findings from the latest Reuters/Ipsos poll

• Half of Republicans believe former President Donald Trump should be the role model for the Republican party.
• Sixty-two percent of Republicans said they had little or no interest in joining a conservative political party run by former Republican leaders who have been critical of Donald Trump.
• Meanwhile, 7 in 10 said they would be somewhat or very interested in hearing what Trump thinks about current events.
• These results are indicative of the influence that Trump continues to hold over the Republican party and why House Republicans felt that Liz Cheney, who was outwardly critical of Trump, needed to be removed.
• But not all Republicans agree with this; 61% agreed that the Republican party is stronger when it embraces both supporters and critics of Trump.

View attachment 494037

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-05/Reuters%20Ipsos%20News%20Issue%20Poll%20%234%20Topline%20%26%20Write-up%20-%20The%20GOP-%207%20May%20thru%2010%20May%202021_0.pdf

We discussed this before. Trump is CEO material. You're not. CEOs make tough decisions even if they aren't popular.

Nope, Trump is NOT CEO material. Trump was always a seat of the pants mom and pop shop.. Rex Tillerson was CEO material.

Opinions vary, Islamist. You also didn't know Muhammad was a warlord.

https://www.amazon.com/review/R1WDBYI0HVOVC9#:~:text=From a man who had,evil we deal with today.&tag=ff0d01-20

Muhammad: The Warrior Prophet

Muhammad, Islam's prophet, was also a truly great general. In one decade he fought 8 major battles, led 18 raids, and planned 38 more military operations.

www.historynet.com