Trump pulling out of Paris Climate Accord

[TNHarley]

If you think we need some agreement with other countries to tell us what to do and how to do it, you're the stupid one. You want America to be like that guy with a good paying job that patrons a bar. Everybody runs up to him shaking his hand, giving him a hug, knowing he will buy them drinks all night long because he has the money.

Our country is 20 trillion dollars in debt. We are broke. Do you know what the word "broke" means? Broke means no money. Broke means in debt. Broke means failure. Why you leftists would choose failure all the time is beyond any reasonable persons ability to understand.

We can't afford to spend God knows how many billions (of money we don't have) on some stupid fairy tale like MMGW. You on the left always tell us to keep our religion in our church or at home, you should do the same with your beliefs. Don't involve our country in your stupid religion. If you want to lower your idiotic carbon footprint, buy a bike and ride it everywhere you go. Buy a windmill for your backyard. Take the bus everywhere you need to go. And in a hundred years from now, you can sit back and enjoy that .02% of cooler air.

God you people are dense.

In the Paris Agreement, each country determines, it's own contribution it will make in order to mitigate global warming. There is no mechanism to force a country to meet any specific target or by any specific date. So what the fuck is their to negotiate.

And what's lost by pulling out?

We lose being a world leader in fighting climate change. We increase the possibilities of a more difficult future for our children & grandchildren. We lost credibility. We lost respect for our Presidency. We risk ending a unified global effort.

I understand that you assholes either don't have kids or just hate your children. Must be the case as you choose to believe a orange uninformed POS instead of scientists.

How do you fight climate change? Climate change is a NATURAL occurrence.

A "natural" occurrence driven by man made pollutants.

Ahhh. Yes, I forgot we have been causing Earths natural evolution for billions of years.
YOU WIN

 

[OldLady]

US is the second worst polluters. We are the leader not a backward follower. We now at level of Syria and Nicaragua. Even China the worst polluters sign on to this accord.

Maybe you should get your facts right:

Air pollution from industrial activity isn’t just an environmental concern—it’s a major public health problem, too.

In a report (pdf) released Tuesday (Sept. 27), the World Health Organization (WHO) found that 92% of the population breathes air with unhealthy levels of pollutants. WHO collected air quality data from 3,000 locations across the globe and looked for concentrations of fine particulate matter, including sulfates, nitrates, mineral dust, and black carbon, which are less than 2.5 micrometers in diameter—about 1/1000 of a millimeter, or the width of a credit card. Both indoors and outdoors, these particles work their way into the lungs when we breathe, and can cause cardiovascular disease like lung cancer, stroke, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

Every country has terrible air pollution, but these are the world’s worst

Now, if you click on the link (and I doubt you will) you can scroll down to the bottom of the page where they list the countries from worst to best. Just so you don't waste too much of your precious time, I suggest you scroll quickly to find the US.

Of course China signed onto it. They don't have to do shit until 2030, and even then, who knows if they'd honor it.

You are very funny Ray. LOL. You are telling me that air is polluted. So we need to do something. Correct? What are you trying to tell me? You need to look at this real link and the problem Ray.

List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions - Wikipedia

View attachment 130754

China. They don't do shit till 2030 is a lame and dumb excuse from Trump as a good example of LYING to Americans.
Technically yes they don't do anything till 2030 because that is the allowance they negotiated with the accord. But in REALITY that is incorrect. They are choking to death right now. What made you and Trump think they are not doing anything right now?
If someone has a cancer (China) is this person going to wait 13 years to get treatments? Wrong. If they waited 13 years to do something------- What do you think will happen to them? Chinese are not that stupid.
They are building several hydro electric dam like in Brahmaputra, three gorges dam and others. This year they scrapped 103 coal power plant which I heard this news in 2015 when they are still in planning stage. They are also doing a lot of improvements about smog from cars and other factory polluters. That is just the start.

The End of Coal Is Near: China Just Scrapped 103 Power Plants

Correct, the Chinese are not stupid, thats why they take advantage of our stupid like Dumbama.

You say that the Chinese are going more green all by themselves, and then try to make the case why WE should sign the Paris Accord? The Chinese are doing such a good job in your opinion without any international agreement.

You people on the left never learn anything about these agreements or treaties. It's like when Saddam signed an agreement to stop us from tearing his country apart, or when Russia signed on to nuclear disarmament, or when Iran said they will stop advancing their nuclear technology. These leaders can barely hold back their laughter when they sign these things because they know we are stupid enough to believe they will abide by them. They sign these treaties and then take them into the toilet and use them to wipe up with.

What Trump did was stop a gang of countries from making fools out of us again. And during this entire discussion since I joined in, not one of you on the left are able to tell me why we need to gang up with all these other countries. Not one of you can tell me what would be accomplished by this that we can't accomplish ourselves without the agreement.

We are the #2 emitter of greenhouse gases. We are also the richest country in the world. So does it make sense that we, and other developed, successful countries, would agree to help less developed countries in making efforts to save the planet from disastrous climate change?
I've read the arguments here. I know the current agreement would not meet the goal. I know the regulations we agreed to are costing the business community $ (that's always a good reason for the Republicans to chime in, yes?) and I know it is not enforceable. I've read all those things here and I believe them, so you don't have to bring them up again. I want to ask you this:
Why do we not need to own our shit? We are the #2 polluter and the #1 richest in the world. And we say we won't get involved in a global effort because we don't want to pay. Is that responsible? I don't think so.

richest country is terms of what?
We owe a third of how much money is in the world. A whole third.
We have unfunded liabilities that are DOUBLE how much money is in the world. You believe it.

We have the largest economy. I misspoke. We do have the largest economy, but you're right, we may be mishandling it.

 

[OldLady]

kicked, screamed, prophesied doom and otherwise whined. .

Funny, that describes perfectly what the other side did. ESPECIALLY the "prophesied doom"

Both sides get passionate. Your side about losing a buck, the green side about losing clean air or water.
Don't say the Republicans don't scream economic doom every single time a regulation is imposed on their manufacturing or drilling. Yet we seem to have survived and the economy is supposedly "booming" according to Thunder Mouth.

 

[TNHarley]

kicked, screamed, prophesied doom and otherwise whined. .

Funny, that describes perfectly what the other side did. ESPECIALLY the "prophesied doom"

Both sides get passionate. Your side about losing a buck, the green side about losing clean air or water.
Don't say the Republicans don't scream economic doom every single time a regulation is imposed on their manufacturing or drilling. Yet we seem to have survived and the economy is supposedly "booming" according to Thunder Mouth.

Oh absolutely. The republicans are fucking idiots.
Its a lot more than clean air and water. A dem president has gone as far as to blame it for his daughters asthma and Islamic extremism.. No shit.

 

[RealDave]

In the Paris Agreement, each country determines, it's own contribution it will make in order to mitigate global warming. There is no mechanism to force a country to meet any specific target or by any specific date. So what the fuck is their to negotiate.

And what's lost by pulling out?

We lose being a world leader in fighting climate change. We increase the possibilities of a more difficult future for our children & grandchildren. We lost credibility. We lost respect for our Presidency. We risk ending a unified global effort.

I understand that you assholes either don't have kids or just hate your children. Must be the case as you choose to believe a orange uninformed POS instead of scientists.

How do you fight climate change? Climate change is a NATURAL occurrence.

A "natural" occurrence driven by man made pollutants.

Ahhh. Yes, I forgot we have been causing Earths natural evolution for billions of years.
YOU WIN

Yet another dumbass who thinks that since the climate changes natually that man can not have an effect on it.

 

[Wyatt earp]

If the whole world signed onto this farce, why the need for the US to do it too? Seems like those countries will do just fine without us.

US is the second worst polluters. We are the leader not a backward follower. We now at level of Syria and Nicaragua. Even China the worst polluters sign on to this accord.

Maybe you should get your facts right:

Air pollution from industrial activity isn’t just an environmental concern—it’s a major public health problem, too.

In a report (pdf) released Tuesday (Sept. 27), the World Health Organization (WHO) found that 92% of the population breathes air with unhealthy levels of pollutants. WHO collected air quality data from 3,000 locations across the globe and looked for concentrations of fine particulate matter, including sulfates, nitrates, mineral dust, and black carbon, which are less than 2.5 micrometers in diameter—about 1/1000 of a millimeter, or the width of a credit card. Both indoors and outdoors, these particles work their way into the lungs when we breathe, and can cause cardiovascular disease like lung cancer, stroke, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

Every country has terrible air pollution, but these are the world’s worst

Now, if you click on the link (and I doubt you will) you can scroll down to the bottom of the page where they list the countries from worst to best. Just so you don't waste too much of your precious time, I suggest you scroll quickly to find the US.

Of course China signed onto it. They don't have to do shit until 2030, and even then, who knows if they'd honor it.

You are very funny Ray. LOL. You are telling me that air is polluted. So we need to do something. Correct? What are you trying to tell me? You need to look at this real link and the problem Ray.

List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions - Wikipedia

View attachment 130754

China. They don't do shit till 2030 is a lame and dumb excuse from Trump as a good example of LYING to Americans.
Technically yes they don't do anything till 2030 because that is the allowance they negotiated with the accord. But in REALITY that is incorrect. They are choking to death right now. What made you and Trump think they are not doing anything right now?
If someone has a cancer (China) is this person going to wait 13 years to get treatments? Wrong. If they waited 13 years to do something------- What do you think will happen to them? Chinese are not that stupid.
They are building several hydro electric dam like in Brahmaputra, three gorges dam and others. This year they scrapped 103 coal power plant which I heard this news in 2015 when they are still in planning stage. They are also doing a lot of improvements about smog from cars and other factory polluters. That is just the start.

The End of Coal Is Near: China Just Scrapped 103 Power Plants

Correct, the Chinese are not stupid, thats why they take advantage of our stupid like Dumbama.

You say that the Chinese are going more green all by themselves, and then try to make the case why WE should sign the Paris Accord? The Chinese are doing such a good job in your opinion without any international agreement.

You people on the left never learn anything about these agreements or treaties. It's like when Saddam signed an agreement to stop us from tearing his country apart, or when Russia signed on to nuclear disarmament, or when Iran said they will stop advancing their nuclear technology. These leaders can barely hold back their laughter when they sign these things because they know we are stupid enough to believe they will abide by them. They sign these treaties and then take them into the toilet and use them to wipe up with.

What Trump did was stop a gang of countries from making fools out of us again. And during this entire discussion since I joined in, not one of you on the left are able to tell me why we need to gang up with all these other countries. Not one of you can tell me what would be accomplished by this that we can't accomplish ourselves without the agreement.

We are the #2 emitter of greenhouse gases. We are also the richest country in the world. So does it make sense that we, and other developed, successful countries, would agree to help less developed countries in making efforts to save the planet from disastrous climate change?
I've read the arguments here. I know the current agreement would not meet the goal. I know the regulations we agreed to are costing the business community $ (that's always a good reason for the Republicans to chime in, yes?) and I know it is not enforceable. I've read all those things here and I believe them, so you don't have to bring them up again. I want to ask you this:
Why do we not need to own our shit? We are the #2 polluter and the #1 richest in the world. And we say we won't get involved in a global effort because we don't want to pay. Is that responsible? I don't think so.

It doesn't have anything to do with pollution..
.

 

[Wyatt earp]

And what's lost by pulling out?

We lose being a world leader in fighting climate change. We increase the possibilities of a more difficult future for our children & grandchildren. We lost credibility. We lost respect for our Presidency. We risk ending a unified global effort.

I understand that you assholes either don't have kids or just hate your children. Must be the case as you choose to believe a orange uninformed POS instead of scientists.

How do you fight climate change? Climate change is a NATURAL occurrence.

A "natural" occurrence driven by man made pollutants.

Ahhh. Yes, I forgot we have been causing Earths natural evolution for billions of years.
YOU WIN

Yet another dumbass who thinks that since the climate changes natually that man can not have an effect on it.

So tell us fool what's the effect?

5%

25%


50%

75%

100%?

 

[OldLady]

kicked, screamed, prophesied doom and otherwise whined. .

Funny, that describes perfectly what the other side did. ESPECIALLY the "prophesied doom"

Both sides get passionate. Your side about losing a buck, the green side about losing clean air or water.
Don't say the Republicans don't scream economic doom every single time a regulation is imposed on their manufacturing or drilling. Yet we seem to have survived and the economy is supposedly "booming" according to Thunder Mouth.

Oh absolutely. The republicans are fucking idiots.
Its a lot more than clean air and water. A dem president has gone as far as to blame it for his daughters asthma and Islamic extremism.. No shit.

The republicans are fucking idiots.
They're rich SOB's who want every last nickel milked from what is making them rich. You can't blame them; this is how our country works. But when the brakes get put on for the public good--whoa Nelly! Let's even come up with dumb stuff like "A dem president has gone as far as to blame it for his daughters asthma and Islamic extremism." Well, air pollution does exacerbate asthma. Ask any doctor of whatever political persuasion, or better yet, anyone with asthma. And every national security expert I've heard has agreed that climate change IS a one of the top security issues facing our country. Due to disruption of natural resources and massive migration causing socio-economic disruption.
The dem president who said those things wasn't wrong. But the current Republican president who is saying a world wide climate agreement isn't good for the U.S. is.

 

[TNHarley]

And what's lost by pulling out?

We lose being a world leader in fighting climate change. We increase the possibilities of a more difficult future for our children & grandchildren. We lost credibility. We lost respect for our Presidency. We risk ending a unified global effort.

I understand that you assholes either don't have kids or just hate your children. Must be the case as you choose to believe a orange uninformed POS instead of scientists.

How do you fight climate change? Climate change is a NATURAL occurrence.

A "natural" occurrence driven by man made pollutants.

Ahhh. Yes, I forgot we have been causing Earths natural evolution for billions of years.
YOU WIN

Yet another dumbass who thinks that since the climate changes natually that man can not have an effect on it.

Watch what you say, genius.
I think we hurt our planet, absolutely.

 

[TNHarley]

kicked, screamed, prophesied doom and otherwise whined. .

Funny, that describes perfectly what the other side did. ESPECIALLY the "prophesied doom"

Both sides get passionate. Your side about losing a buck, the green side about losing clean air or water.
Don't say the Republicans don't scream economic doom every single time a regulation is imposed on their manufacturing or drilling. Yet we seem to have survived and the economy is supposedly "booming" according to Thunder Mouth.

Oh absolutely. The republicans are fucking idiots.
Its a lot more than clean air and water. A dem president has gone as far as to blame it for his daughters asthma and Islamic extremism.. No shit.

The republicans are fucking idiots.
They're rich SOB's who want every last nickel milked from what is making them rich. You can't blame them; this is how our country works. But when the brakes get put on for the public good--whoa Nelly! Let's even come up with dumb stuff like "A dem president has gone as far as to blame it for his daughters asthma and Islamic extremism." Well, air pollution does exacerbate asthma. Ask any doctor of whatever political persuasion, or better yet, anyone with asthma. And every national security expert I've heard has agreed that climate change IS a one of the top security issues facing our country. Due to disruption of natural resources and massive migration causing socio-economic disruption.
The dem president who said those things wasn't wrong. But the current Republican president who is saying a world wide climate agreement isn't good for the U.S. is.

You are going to sit there and tell me dry, hot climates cause Islamic terrorism in the middle east when they have been living in that EXACT climate for thousands of years?
Give me a fucking break old lady. I know its Monday but damn..
You sit there and talk trash about "rich republicans" when rich dems pushing this shit when they fly around in private jets. Leo decaprio flew halfway around the world to accept an environment award and he let out more co2 from that SOLE trip than my family will do in six months.
Again, give me a fucking break.
This stupid partisanship you all are stuck on is regressive. You people need to grow the fuck up.
And I guess you have a point with the asthma. The dem city of Chicago STILL hasn't met basic air quality standards
They don't really care. And until you care enough to look for reality, you are just as bad as the duopoly.

 

[easyt65]

NEWSFLASH: THE UNITED STATES WAS NEVER 'IN' THE PARIS ACCORDS
*** See separate Thread about this (that will potentially combine with this one)

The Paris Accords is a TREATY. Barry made yet another Un-Constitutional Decision on his own to Sign the United States up to this TREATY - He NEVER followed the Constitution, NEVER presented it to Congress, and Congress NEVER ratified the TREATY.

Just like with his 'Iran Deal', the agreement Barry made with the Paris Accords is nothing more than agreement between Barry - who is now gone - and the International Community.

Trump isn't 'pulling out' of anything - we were never 'in'.

 

[OldLady]

kicked, screamed, prophesied doom and otherwise whined. .

Funny, that describes perfectly what the other side did. ESPECIALLY the "prophesied doom"

Both sides get passionate. Your side about losing a buck, the green side about losing clean air or water.
Don't say the Republicans don't scream economic doom every single time a regulation is imposed on their manufacturing or drilling. Yet we seem to have survived and the economy is supposedly "booming" according to Thunder Mouth.

Oh absolutely. The republicans are fucking idiots.
Its a lot more than clean air and water. A dem president has gone as far as to blame it for his daughters asthma and Islamic extremism.. No shit.

The republicans are fucking idiots.
They're rich SOB's who want every last nickel milked from what is making them rich. You can't blame them; this is how our country works. But when the brakes get put on for the public good--whoa Nelly! Let's even come up with dumb stuff like "A dem president has gone as far as to blame it for his daughters asthma and Islamic extremism." Well, air pollution does exacerbate asthma. Ask any doctor of whatever political persuasion, or better yet, anyone with asthma. And every national security expert I've heard has agreed that climate change IS a one of the top security issues facing our country. Due to disruption of natural resources and massive migration causing socio-economic disruption.
The dem president who said those things wasn't wrong. But the current Republican president who is saying a world wide climate agreement isn't good for the U.S. is.

You are going to sit there and tell me dry, hot climates cause Islamic terrorism in the middle east when they have been living in that EXACT climate for thousands of years?
Give me a fucking break old lady. I know its Monday but damn..
You sit there and talk trash about "rich republicans" when rich dems pushing this shit when they fly around in private jets. Leo decaprio flew halfway around the world to accept an environment award and he let out more co2 from that SOLE trip than my family will do in six months.
Again, give me a fucking break.
This stupid partisanship you all are stuck on is regressive. You people need to grow the fuck up.
And I guess you have a point with the asthma. The dem city of Chicago STILL hasn't met basic air quality standards
They don't really care. And until you care enough to look for reality, you are just as bad as the duopoly.

This stupid partisanship you all are stuck on is regressive.
Take a look in the mirror, TN. The conservative argument here (if you can really call an argument based on bullshit an "argument"), wants to roll back the clock and make things the way they used to be. Despite that the world is changing and the world is moving on. We need to find out how to roll with the change, not allow our power plants and factories pollute more, just like the good old days. Thank God Presidents only get a four year term. If he lasts that long.

 

[toobfreak]

Still, only words. A non-binding agreement. Just talk is all it is. No accountability, no enforcement, no way to verify.

Then all the better that we step out of it! Still the same bad idea no matter, just another attempt to globalize socialize one-worldize our country.

Yep! First, we are not the #2 polluter, don't know where you got that crap, and if all the other countries still want to do it, NOTHING STOPPING THEM! JUST QUIT TRYING TO STICK ME WITH THE BILL! The US Taxpayer is SICK AND TIRED of carry the world on our shoulders. The Accord won't make a damn bit of an effect, it would cost us hugely, and besides, Trump made it clear he would be all open to it if it can be worked out different that we aren't screwed in the ass. DAMN PROUD TO HAVE A PRESIDENT stand up for me like that and take it in the chin because it was the right thing to do for the USA.

First, we are not the #2 polluter, don't know where you got that crap,
I don't know where you've been that you DIDN'T know we were the #2 polluter. I've heard some places say we're #1, but I'll go with the EPA and what is said in my local paper this morning.

Global Greenhouse Gas Emissions Data | US EPA

Yes but is that adjusted for population???

It's one planet, one atmosphere. Explain why the populations matter as to the amount of greenhouse gasses entering the atmosphere.

The data is skewed against the USA due to its size and number of people! Of course we appear a bigger polluter than we are, if we didn't have such good technology, we would pollute much more. And India while contributing 7% is a much bigger polluter considering the small size of the country and population.

View attachment 130663

China produces nearly a THIRD of the world CO2 emission yet is GROWING and not affected by the ACCORD.
India, despite its small size producers almost as much as all the countries of the EU combined.
Yes, we produce 14%, considering our population and size, pretty damned good compared to the tiny EU (look at a map).
Tiny Japan producers almost as much as all of Russia!
If you want to say 14% is still 14%, fine, but to cut our CO2 by 20% would be DEVASTATING to our economy, MASSIVELY EXPENSIVE. Now is not the time with our economy already weak and when the benefits of doing so are HIGHLY debatable. Even the PA predicts only a minuscule improvement over a century!
Not a good deal to CRIPPLE ourselves while China and India run away Scott free producing nearly 40% of the total global amount and INCREASING.

Let's take a look at air quality in BEIJING CHINA:


View attachment 130664



Now let us take a look at New Delhi India:


View attachment 130665


Now, let us take a look at an American City like Chicago, one of our largest:


View attachment 130667


Any questions? Pure numbers and statistical data can be deceiving.

Pure numbers and statistical data can be deceiving.
I realize that, and you took pure numbers and twisted them into a whine that China and India pollute more than we do. (Which India does not, btw) So why should there be an agreement that encourages them to pollute less, you ask? Shit, I CAN NOT understand where your logic comes from.

you took pure numbers and twisted them into a whine that China and India pollute more than we do

I twisted nothing. That is the opinion of every person I have listened to on critiquing the Paris Accord, including the President! Their comments are always about the massive pollution of China and India, which is far more than the CO2 chart you display indicates! Paris allows them to run rampant, indeed, encourages them to step up their pollution ahead of 2030 while we finance them and hold our own industry back? It just ain't going to happen.

 

[RealDave]

US is the second worst polluters. We are the leader not a backward follower. We now at level of Syria and Nicaragua. Even China the worst polluters sign on to this accord.

Maybe you should get your facts right:

Air pollution from industrial activity isn’t just an environmental concern—it’s a major public health problem, too.

In a report (pdf) released Tuesday (Sept. 27), the World Health Organization (WHO) found that 92% of the population breathes air with unhealthy levels of pollutants. WHO collected air quality data from 3,000 locations across the globe and looked for concentrations of fine particulate matter, including sulfates, nitrates, mineral dust, and black carbon, which are less than 2.5 micrometers in diameter—about 1/1000 of a millimeter, or the width of a credit card. Both indoors and outdoors, these particles work their way into the lungs when we breathe, and can cause cardiovascular disease like lung cancer, stroke, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

Every country has terrible air pollution, but these are the world’s worst

Now, if you click on the link (and I doubt you will) you can scroll down to the bottom of the page where they list the countries from worst to best. Just so you don't waste too much of your precious time, I suggest you scroll quickly to find the US.

Of course China signed onto it. They don't have to do shit until 2030, and even then, who knows if they'd honor it.

You are very funny Ray. LOL. You are telling me that air is polluted. So we need to do something. Correct? What are you trying to tell me? You need to look at this real link and the problem Ray.

List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions - Wikipedia

View attachment 130754

China. They don't do shit till 2030 is a lame and dumb excuse from Trump as a good example of LYING to Americans.
Technically yes they don't do anything till 2030 because that is the allowance they negotiated with the accord. But in REALITY that is incorrect. They are choking to death right now. What made you and Trump think they are not doing anything right now?
If someone has a cancer (China) is this person going to wait 13 years to get treatments? Wrong. If they waited 13 years to do something------- What do you think will happen to them? Chinese are not that stupid.
They are building several hydro electric dam like in Brahmaputra, three gorges dam and others. This year they scrapped 103 coal power plant which I heard this news in 2015 when they are still in planning stage. They are also doing a lot of improvements about smog from cars and other factory polluters. That is just the start.

The End of Coal Is Near: China Just Scrapped 103 Power Plants

Correct, the Chinese are not stupid, thats why they take advantage of our stupid like Dumbama.

You say that the Chinese are going more green all by themselves, and then try to make the case why WE should sign the Paris Accord? The Chinese are doing such a good job in your opinion without any international agreement.

You people on the left never learn anything about these agreements or treaties. It's like when Saddam signed an agreement to stop us from tearing his country apart, or when Russia signed on to nuclear disarmament, or when Iran said they will stop advancing their nuclear technology. These leaders can barely hold back their laughter when they sign these things because they know we are stupid enough to believe they will abide by them. They sign these treaties and then take them into the toilet and use them to wipe up with.

What Trump did was stop a gang of countries from making fools out of us again. And during this entire discussion since I joined in, not one of you on the left are able to tell me why we need to gang up with all these other countries. Not one of you can tell me what would be accomplished by this that we can't accomplish ourselves without the agreement.

We are the #2 emitter of greenhouse gases. We are also the richest country in the world. So does it make sense that we, and other developed, successful countries, would agree to help less developed countries in making efforts to save the planet from disastrous climate change?
I've read the arguments here. I know the current agreement would not meet the goal. I know the regulations we agreed to are costing the business community $ (that's always a good reason for the Republicans to chime in, yes?) and I know it is not enforceable. I've read all those things here and I believe them, so you don't have to bring them up again. I want to ask you this:
Why do we not need to own our shit? We are the #2 polluter and the #1 richest in the world. And we say we won't get involved in a global effort because we don't want to pay. Is that responsible? I don't think so.

It doesn't have anything to do with pollution..
.

pol·lu·tion
pəˈlo͞oSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: pollution
the presence in or introduction into the environment of a substance or thing that has harmful or poisonous effects.

Greenhouse gases => warming Warming=> Climate change

 

[Wyatt earp]

Maybe you should get your facts right:

Air pollution from industrial activity isn’t just an environmental concern—it’s a major public health problem, too.

In a report (pdf) released Tuesday (Sept. 27), the World Health Organization (WHO) found that 92% of the population breathes air with unhealthy levels of pollutants. WHO collected air quality data from 3,000 locations across the globe and looked for concentrations of fine particulate matter, including sulfates, nitrates, mineral dust, and black carbon, which are less than 2.5 micrometers in diameter—about 1/1000 of a millimeter, or the width of a credit card. Both indoors and outdoors, these particles work their way into the lungs when we breathe, and can cause cardiovascular disease like lung cancer, stroke, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

Every country has terrible air pollution, but these are the world’s worst

Now, if you click on the link (and I doubt you will) you can scroll down to the bottom of the page where they list the countries from worst to best. Just so you don't waste too much of your precious time, I suggest you scroll quickly to find the US.

Of course China signed onto it. They don't have to do shit until 2030, and even then, who knows if they'd honor it.

You are very funny Ray. LOL. You are telling me that air is polluted. So we need to do something. Correct? What are you trying to tell me? You need to look at this real link and the problem Ray.

List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions - Wikipedia

View attachment 130754

China. They don't do shit till 2030 is a lame and dumb excuse from Trump as a good example of LYING to Americans.
Technically yes they don't do anything till 2030 because that is the allowance they negotiated with the accord. But in REALITY that is incorrect. They are choking to death right now. What made you and Trump think they are not doing anything right now?
If someone has a cancer (China) is this person going to wait 13 years to get treatments? Wrong. If they waited 13 years to do something------- What do you think will happen to them? Chinese are not that stupid.
They are building several hydro electric dam like in Brahmaputra, three gorges dam and others. This year they scrapped 103 coal power plant which I heard this news in 2015 when they are still in planning stage. They are also doing a lot of improvements about smog from cars and other factory polluters. That is just the start.

The End of Coal Is Near: China Just Scrapped 103 Power Plants

Correct, the Chinese are not stupid, thats why they take advantage of our stupid like Dumbama.

You say that the Chinese are going more green all by themselves, and then try to make the case why WE should sign the Paris Accord? The Chinese are doing such a good job in your opinion without any international agreement.

You people on the left never learn anything about these agreements or treaties. It's like when Saddam signed an agreement to stop us from tearing his country apart, or when Russia signed on to nuclear disarmament, or when Iran said they will stop advancing their nuclear technology. These leaders can barely hold back their laughter when they sign these things because they know we are stupid enough to believe they will abide by them. They sign these treaties and then take them into the toilet and use them to wipe up with.

What Trump did was stop a gang of countries from making fools out of us again. And during this entire discussion since I joined in, not one of you on the left are able to tell me why we need to gang up with all these other countries. Not one of you can tell me what would be accomplished by this that we can't accomplish ourselves without the agreement.

We are the #2 emitter of greenhouse gases. We are also the richest country in the world. So does it make sense that we, and other developed, successful countries, would agree to help less developed countries in making efforts to save the planet from disastrous climate change?
I've read the arguments here. I know the current agreement would not meet the goal. I know the regulations we agreed to are costing the business community $ (that's always a good reason for the Republicans to chime in, yes?) and I know it is not enforceable. I've read all those things here and I believe them, so you don't have to bring them up again. I want to ask you this:
Why do we not need to own our shit? We are the #2 polluter and the #1 richest in the world. And we say we won't get involved in a global effort because we don't want to pay. Is that responsible? I don't think so.

It doesn't have anything to do with pollution..
.

pol·lu·tion
pəˈlo͞oSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: pollution
the presence in or introduction into the environment of a substance or thing that has harmful or poisonous effects.

Greenhouse gases => warming Warming=> Climate change

Once again we a need C02 you moron.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Maybe you should get your facts right:

Air pollution from industrial activity isn’t just an environmental concern—it’s a major public health problem, too.

In a report (pdf) released Tuesday (Sept. 27), the World Health Organization (WHO) found that 92% of the population breathes air with unhealthy levels of pollutants. WHO collected air quality data from 3,000 locations across the globe and looked for concentrations of fine particulate matter, including sulfates, nitrates, mineral dust, and black carbon, which are less than 2.5 micrometers in diameter—about 1/1000 of a millimeter, or the width of a credit card. Both indoors and outdoors, these particles work their way into the lungs when we breathe, and can cause cardiovascular disease like lung cancer, stroke, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

Every country has terrible air pollution, but these are the world’s worst

Now, if you click on the link (and I doubt you will) you can scroll down to the bottom of the page where they list the countries from worst to best. Just so you don't waste too much of your precious time, I suggest you scroll quickly to find the US.

Of course China signed onto it. They don't have to do shit until 2030, and even then, who knows if they'd honor it.

You are very funny Ray. LOL. You are telling me that air is polluted. So we need to do something. Correct? What are you trying to tell me? You need to look at this real link and the problem Ray.

List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions - Wikipedia

View attachment 130754

China. They don't do shit till 2030 is a lame and dumb excuse from Trump as a good example of LYING to Americans.
Technically yes they don't do anything till 2030 because that is the allowance they negotiated with the accord. But in REALITY that is incorrect. They are choking to death right now. What made you and Trump think they are not doing anything right now?
If someone has a cancer (China) is this person going to wait 13 years to get treatments? Wrong. If they waited 13 years to do something------- What do you think will happen to them? Chinese are not that stupid.
They are building several hydro electric dam like in Brahmaputra, three gorges dam and others. This year they scrapped 103 coal power plant which I heard this news in 2015 when they are still in planning stage. They are also doing a lot of improvements about smog from cars and other factory polluters. That is just the start.

The End of Coal Is Near: China Just Scrapped 103 Power Plants

Correct, the Chinese are not stupid, thats why they take advantage of our stupid like Dumbama.

You say that the Chinese are going more green all by themselves, and then try to make the case why WE should sign the Paris Accord? The Chinese are doing such a good job in your opinion without any international agreement.

You people on the left never learn anything about these agreements or treaties. It's like when Saddam signed an agreement to stop us from tearing his country apart, or when Russia signed on to nuclear disarmament, or when Iran said they will stop advancing their nuclear technology. These leaders can barely hold back their laughter when they sign these things because they know we are stupid enough to believe they will abide by them. They sign these treaties and then take them into the toilet and use them to wipe up with.

What Trump did was stop a gang of countries from making fools out of us again. And during this entire discussion since I joined in, not one of you on the left are able to tell me why we need to gang up with all these other countries. Not one of you can tell me what would be accomplished by this that we can't accomplish ourselves without the agreement.

We are the #2 emitter of greenhouse gases. We are also the richest country in the world. So does it make sense that we, and other developed, successful countries, would agree to help less developed countries in making efforts to save the planet from disastrous climate change?
I've read the arguments here. I know the current agreement would not meet the goal. I know the regulations we agreed to are costing the business community $ (that's always a good reason for the Republicans to chime in, yes?) and I know it is not enforceable. I've read all those things here and I believe them, so you don't have to bring them up again. I want to ask you this:
Why do we not need to own our shit? We are the #2 polluter and the #1 richest in the world. And we say we won't get involved in a global effort because we don't want to pay. Is that responsible? I don't think so.

It doesn't have anything to do with pollution..
.

pol·lu·tion
pəˈlo͞oSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: pollution
the presence in or introduction into the environment of a substance or thing that has harmful or poisonous effects.

Greenhouse gases => warming Warming=> Climate change

And why you so confused that the Paris accord has nothing to do with pollution?


.

 

[RealDave]

We lose being a world leader in fighting climate change. We increase the possibilities of a more difficult future for our children & grandchildren. We lost credibility. We lost respect for our Presidency. We risk ending a unified global effort.

I understand that you assholes either don't have kids or just hate your children. Must be the case as you choose to believe a orange uninformed POS instead of scientists.

How do you fight climate change? Climate change is a NATURAL occurrence.

A "natural" occurrence driven by man made pollutants.

Ahhh. Yes, I forgot we have been causing Earths natural evolution for billions of years.
YOU WIN

Yet another dumbass who thinks that since the climate changes natually that man can not have an effect on it.

So tell us fool what's the effect?

5%

25%


50%

75%

100%?

Straw. Camel. Back.

Once our CO2 additions push the total CO2 emissions beyond what the planet can handle, the ppm increases.

 

[TNHarley]

Funny, that describes perfectly what the other side did. ESPECIALLY the "prophesied doom"

Both sides get passionate. Your side about losing a buck, the green side about losing clean air or water.
Don't say the Republicans don't scream economic doom every single time a regulation is imposed on their manufacturing or drilling. Yet we seem to have survived and the economy is supposedly "booming" according to Thunder Mouth.

Oh absolutely. The republicans are fucking idiots.
Its a lot more than clean air and water. A dem president has gone as far as to blame it for his daughters asthma and Islamic extremism.. No shit.

The republicans are fucking idiots.
They're rich SOB's who want every last nickel milked from what is making them rich. You can't blame them; this is how our country works. But when the brakes get put on for the public good--whoa Nelly! Let's even come up with dumb stuff like "A dem president has gone as far as to blame it for his daughters asthma and Islamic extremism." Well, air pollution does exacerbate asthma. Ask any doctor of whatever political persuasion, or better yet, anyone with asthma. And every national security expert I've heard has agreed that climate change IS a one of the top security issues facing our country. Due to disruption of natural resources and massive migration causing socio-economic disruption.
The dem president who said those things wasn't wrong. But the current Republican president who is saying a world wide climate agreement isn't good for the U.S. is.

You are going to sit there and tell me dry, hot climates cause Islamic terrorism in the middle east when they have been living in that EXACT climate for thousands of years?
Give me a fucking break old lady. I know its Monday but damn..
You sit there and talk trash about "rich republicans" when rich dems pushing this shit when they fly around in private jets. Leo decaprio flew halfway around the world to accept an environment award and he let out more co2 from that SOLE trip than my family will do in six months.
Again, give me a fucking break.
This stupid partisanship you all are stuck on is regressive. You people need to grow the fuck up.
And I guess you have a point with the asthma. The dem city of Chicago STILL hasn't met basic air quality standards
They don't really care. And until you care enough to look for reality, you are just as bad as the duopoly.

This stupid partisanship you all are stuck on is regressive.
Take a look in the mirror, TN. The conservative argument here (if you can really call an argument based on bullshit an "argument"), wants to roll back the clock and make things the way they used to be. Despite that the world is changing and the world is moving on. We need to find out how to roll with the change, not allow our power plants and factories pollute more, just like the good old days. Thank God Presidents only get a four year term. If he lasts that long.

I ask for proof and use logic and REALITY and you call me a partisan? I am sitting here calling for regulations on shit that we can ACTUALLY CHANGE like waterway and ocean pollution and you call ME a partisan?
Lol get real old lady. You are full of shit. Seriously.
FIVE PERCENT. Our co2 imprint is miniscule and until I can see FACT, all this will ever be is partisan bullshit. ESPECIALLY when you call people science deniers for not being in your collective while you cant offer a SHRED of ACTUAL evidence.
Al Gore will tell you all this shit and you suck it up. Then, the son of a bitch boards his private jumbo jet, lands and gets in an SUV that get 12 miles a gallon and goes to an environmental rally and tells us we need to cut back on emissions and the air conditioner. Then, all the people that attended the event leaves 2 tons of fucking trash behind
All of you are a fucking JOKE when it comes to this.
Call me a partisan

 

[RealDave]

First, we are not the #2 polluter, don't know where you got that crap,
I don't know where you've been that you DIDN'T know we were the #2 polluter. I've heard some places say we're #1, but I'll go with the EPA and what is said in my local paper this morning.

Global Greenhouse Gas Emissions Data | US EPA

Yes but is that adjusted for population???

It's one planet, one atmosphere. Explain why the populations matter as to the amount of greenhouse gasses entering the atmosphere.

The data is skewed against the USA due to its size and number of people! Of course we appear a bigger polluter than we are, if we didn't have such good technology, we would pollute much more. And India while contributing 7% is a much bigger polluter considering the small size of the country and population.

View attachment 130663

China produces nearly a THIRD of the world CO2 emission yet is GROWING and not affected by the ACCORD.
India, despite its small size producers almost as much as all the countries of the EU combined.
Yes, we produce 14%, considering our population and size, pretty damned good compared to the tiny EU (look at a map).
Tiny Japan producers almost as much as all of Russia!
If you want to say 14% is still 14%, fine, but to cut our CO2 by 20% would be DEVASTATING to our economy, MASSIVELY EXPENSIVE. Now is not the time with our economy already weak and when the benefits of doing so are HIGHLY debatable. Even the PA predicts only a minuscule improvement over a century!
Not a good deal to CRIPPLE ourselves while China and India run away Scott free producing nearly 40% of the total global amount and INCREASING.

Let's take a look at air quality in BEIJING CHINA:


View attachment 130664



Now let us take a look at New Delhi India:


View attachment 130665


Now, let us take a look at an American City like Chicago, one of our largest:


View attachment 130667


Any questions? Pure numbers and statistical data can be deceiving.

Pure numbers and statistical data can be deceiving.
I realize that, and you took pure numbers and twisted them into a whine that China and India pollute more than we do. (Which India does not, btw) So why should there be an agreement that encourages them to pollute less, you ask? Shit, I CAN NOT understand where your logic comes from.

you took pure numbers and twisted them into a whine that China and India pollute more than we do

I twisted nothing. That is the opinion of every person I have listened to on critiquing the Paris Accord, including the President! Their comments are always about the massive pollution of China and India, which is far more than the CO2 chart you display indicates! Paris allows them to run rampant, indeed, encourages them to step up their pollution ahead of 2030 while we finance them and hold our own industry back? It just ain't going to happen.

Dude, they have more people.


More People => more need food, industry, power => More emissions.

China & India each have about 4 times the number of people, so certainly we should expect their emissions to be higher.

 

[toobfreak]

Which is why they don't even want to hear anything about renegotiations. Like the UN, Trump will say America will do their part, but other countries have to do theirs. We will not do their part for them, and that's something they don't even want to discuss. They just want our money with a nice name like Paris Accord attached to it.

My God, you are that fucking stupid to believe Trump wants to renegotiate it when it can't be renegotiated?

Trump & you are too God damn stupid to know the Accord was all voluntary. If Trump is going to follow through on our commitment to lower our emissions, why pull out.

You & Trump are too God damn stupid top know that the leading country responsible for the high levels that exist today.

You & Trump are too God damn stupid top know that reducing emissions globally is better than just lowering ours ( Like the orange POS wants to lower our emissions).

Trump & you are too God damn stupid to get that providing these countries the technology & equipment is business for US corporations.

You & Trump are two of the dumbest people on the planet.

If you think we need some agreement with other countries to tell us what to do and how to do it, you're the stupid one. You want America to be like that guy with a good paying job that patrons a bar. Everybody runs up to him shaking his hand, giving him a hug, knowing he will buy them drinks all night long because he has the money.

Our country is 20 trillion dollars in debt. We are broke. Do you know what the word "broke" means? Broke means no money. Broke means in debt. Broke means failure. Why you leftists would choose failure all the time is beyond any reasonable persons ability to understand.

We can't afford to spend God knows how many billions (of money we don't have) on some stupid fairy tale like MMGW. You on the left always tell us to keep our religion in our church or at home, you should do the same with your beliefs. Don't involve our country in your stupid religion. If you want to lower your idiotic carbon footprint, buy a bike and ride it everywhere you go. Buy a windmill for your backyard. Take the bus everywhere you need to go. And in a hundred years from now, you can sit back and enjoy that .02% of cooler air.

God you people are dense.

In the Paris Agreement, each country determines, it's own contribution it will make in order to mitigate global warming. There is no mechanism to force a country to meet any specific target or by any specific date. So what the fuck is their to negotiate.

And what's lost by pulling out?

We lose being a world leader in fighting climate change. We increase the possibilities of a more difficult future for our children & grandchildren. We lost credibility. We lost respect for our Presidency. We risk ending a unified global effort.

I understand that you assholes either don't have kids or just hate your children. Must be the case as you choose to believe a orange uninformed POS instead of scientists.

We lose being a world leader in fighting climate change. We increase the possibilities of a more difficult future for our children & grandchildren. We lost credibility. We lost respect for our Presidency. We risk ending a unified global effort. I understand that you assholes either don't have kids or just hate your children. Must be the case as you choose to believe a orange uninformed POS instead of scientists.

What is the value in losing being the leader of an empty and futile cause that only serves to greatly burden us? What is the loss in losing "credibility" with people who have no credibility themselves? And according to many here, our president already has no respect. If the cause is so worthy, then the rest of the globe will dare not end their efforts on account of our "folly." If they change the Accord to include China ans India, they can achieve the same results without us. But then, like you say we are just a bunch of assholes who hate kids, unlike you who just patronize silly stereotypes. At least we listen to the burgeoning number of scientists and evidence which dare step out from the sheep-think to all say the climate change thing is natural, not man-made and nothing we can change anyway.