Trump Tower Toady Natalia Veselnitskaya had much closer ties to Putin than she let on

[OldLady]

You don't want my opinion, because if what Don Jr. did at Trump Tower wasn't illegal, it should have been. Not because they were Russian, obviously, but because of what they were advertising for sale.

Thanks for the doc to bolster my argument. Westwall won't let the facts slow him down, though.

There is no getting around this one - and their feeble attempts are becoming tiresome.

To me, this "set up" is the closest to real evidence of collusion by the Trump team, that we've heard of, anyway. HOWEVER, I am keeping in mind that the Russians are sly and that the Trump team was totally inexperienced and that the email we are all relying on for evidence is one hell of a stupid move by a REAL spy. It could have been a set up to use later for blackmail against the Trump team, except that Jr. wouldn't play ball and sent the damned thing out to the four winds.
If you think about it honestly, WHO would send an email like that? It stinks in more ways than one. Either way you look at it, it could lead to more than is on the surface.
Just sayin.

Unless one is under the age of 12, inexperience is not a defense. In fact, Trump Jr.s "love it" comment is prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he had an intention of wrong doing, i.e. conspiring with a foreign power to have an impact on the election.

Men's rea is a legal term defined as: the intention or knowledge of wrongdoing that constitutes part of a crime, as opposed to the action or conduct of the accused.

Yes. I am just keeping in mind that possibly (1) the email was a bogus set up, or (2) that this was all on Jr., not Dad. I agree he probably learned about it afterward, but whether he was involved in setting it up or knew about this Russian "help" offer ahead of time isn't clear to me from what we know.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I don't see anywhere in the campaign finance laws that it is illegal to look at official documents from another country.

It is a felony to take anything of value to a campaign from a foreign government let alone a HOSTILE foreign government.

Something of value, lol.

How do you know the Trump campaign wouldn't have paid for the documents?
And since none of this happened it's moot anyway.

WRONG ^^^

 

[Wry Catcher]

Thanks for the doc to bolster my argument. Westwall won't let the facts slow him down, though.

There is no getting around this one - and their feeble attempts are becoming tiresome.

To me, this "set up" is the closest to real evidence of collusion by the Trump team, that we've heard of, anyway. HOWEVER, I am keeping in mind that the Russians are sly and that the Trump team was totally inexperienced and that the email we are all relying on for evidence is one hell of a stupid move by a REAL spy. It could have been a set up to use later for blackmail against the Trump team, except that Jr. wouldn't play ball and sent the damned thing out to the four winds.
If you think about it honestly, WHO would send an email like that? It stinks in more ways than one. Either way you look at it, it could lead to more than is on the surface.
Just sayin.

Unless one is under the age of 12, inexperience is not a defense. In fact, Trump Jr.s "love it" comment is prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he had an intention of wrong doing, i.e. conspiring with a foreign power to have an impact on the election.

Men's rea is a legal term defined as: the intention or knowledge of wrongdoing that constitutes part of a crime, as opposed to the action or conduct of the accused.

Yes. I am just keeping in mind that possibly (1) the email was a bogus set up, or (2) that this was all on Jr., not Dad. I agree he probably learned about it afterward, but whether he was involved in setting it up or knew about this Russian "help" offer ahead of time isn't clear to me from what we know.

"from what we know". Mr. Mueller knows more, much more of this I'm certain, than has been expressed in the media.

 

[Defiant1]

I don't see anywhere in the campaign finance laws that it is illegal to look at official documents from another country.

It is a felony to take anything of value to a campaign from a foreign government let alone a HOSTILE foreign government.

Something of value, lol.

How do you know the Trump campaign wouldn't have paid for the documents?
And since none of this happened it's moot anyway.

I'm not sure about that. She supposedly left a "folder" which no one has ever seen the contents of. We may never see it.

And I'm sure there was a price tag on the folder, lol.
Maybe it was a blue light special....

Something of value, lol, again.

Your desperation is palpable.

What's desperate about stating facts?

Other than the woman who does exist, I haven't seen any facts.

Care to share your "facts?"

 

[Wry Catcher]

Unless one is under the age of 12, inexperience is not a defense. In fact, Trump Jr.s "love it" comment is prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he had an intention of wrong doing, i.e. conspiring with a foreign power to have an impact on the election.

Men's rea is a legal term defined as: the intention or knowledge of wrongdoing that constitutes part of a crime, as opposed to the action or conduct of the accused.

Can you cite that statute?

Are you suggesting that only American citizens can work on candidate campaigns?

52 U.S. Code § 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals


(a) ProhibitionIt shall be unlawful for—
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or

That doesn't mean they can't work or provide information and advice to campaigns.

Nonsense - Please stop

I don't consider my certification as an election professional nonsense.

It's shocking, that's the issue.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It is a felony to take anything of value to a campaign from a foreign government let alone a HOSTILE foreign government.

Something of value, lol.

How do you know the Trump campaign wouldn't have paid for the documents?
And since none of this happened it's moot anyway.

I'm not sure about that. She supposedly left a "folder" which no one has ever seen the contents of. We may never see it.

And I'm sure there was a price tag on the folder, lol.
Maybe it was a blue light special....

Something of value, lol, again.

Your desperation is palpable.

What's desperate about stating facts?

Other than the woman who does exist, I haven't seen any facts.

Care to share your "facts?"

The facts of a conspiracy are already known, those who continue to obstruct justice would vbe wise to recant any lies or misleading statements before Mueller has completed his work, and or, before he brings them under oath to testify before a grand jury.

For those who claim this entire investigation is a witch hunt. what has been reported and adjudicated thus far makes any claim of that sort a product of naivety, wishful thinking and/or denial.

 

[Defiant1]

Can you cite that statute?

Are you suggesting that only American citizens can work on candidate campaigns?

52 U.S. Code § 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals


(a) ProhibitionIt shall be unlawful for—
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or

That doesn't mean they can't work or provide information and advice to campaigns.

Nonsense - Please stop

I don't consider my certification as an election professional nonsense.

It's shocking, that's the issue.

Damn dude, it's been over a year, the shock from that bitch hillary losing should have worn off by now.

 

[Wry Catcher]

52 U.S. Code § 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals


(a) ProhibitionIt shall be unlawful for—
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or

That doesn't mean they can't work or provide information and advice to campaigns.

Nonsense - Please stop

I don't consider my certification as an election professional nonsense.

It's shocking, that's the issue.

Damn dude, it's been over a year, the shock from that bitch hillary losing should have worn off by now.

Off topic, irrelevant and not responsive to my answer to your question.

 

[Defiant1]

Something of value, lol.

How do you know the Trump campaign wouldn't have paid for the documents?
And since none of this happened it's moot anyway.

I'm not sure about that. She supposedly left a "folder" which no one has ever seen the contents of. We may never see it.

And I'm sure there was a price tag on the folder, lol.
Maybe it was a blue light special....

Something of value, lol, again.

Your desperation is palpable.

What's desperate about stating facts?

Other than the woman who does exist, I haven't seen any facts.

Care to share your "facts?"

The facts of a conspiracy are already known, those who continue to obstruct justice would vbe wise to recant any lies or misleading statements before Mueller has completed his work, and or, before he brings them under oath to testify before a grand jury.

For those who claim this entire investigation is a witch hunt. what has been reported and adjudicated thus far makes any claim of that sort a product of naivety, wishful thinking and/or denial.

Conspiring to win an election is called campaigning. It's done all the time.

 

[Defiant1]

That doesn't mean they can't work or provide information and advice to campaigns.

Nonsense - Please stop

I don't consider my certification as an election professional nonsense.

It's shocking, that's the issue.

Damn dude, it's been over a year, the shock from that bitch hillary losing should have worn off by now.

Off topic, irrelevant and not responsive to my answer to your question.

I couldn't see anything else that would have been shocking to you.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Nonsense - Please stop

I don't consider my certification as an election professional nonsense.

It's shocking, that's the issue.

Damn dude, it's been over a year, the shock from that bitch hillary losing should have worn off by now.

Off topic, irrelevant and not responsive to my answer to your question.

I couldn't see anything else that would have been shocking to you.

Myopia is not a safe malady in an electrician.

 

[westwall]

oldlady, are you forgetting it was obummer who was TOLD by comey of all people, that the russians were interfering with the election process and obummer told comey to stand down. That is a fact.


FACT CHECK: Why Didn't Obama Stop Russia's Election Interference In 2016?

"So why didn't Obama's administration do more?
That isn't clear. Some former administration officials who have talked about it publicly have reproached themselves for not acting more aggressively. There also was a long-standing criticism of Obama that his foreign-policy making amounted to endless process with no outcomes — hours of meetings that yielded more meetings but no ultimate action.

Plus, the relationship between the United States and Russia is multifaceted and often intensely complicated:

• 
  
  
  • Obama scaled back missile defense plans in Europe to placate Moscow.
  • Obama wanted Russia to play a role in the international agreement under which Iran agreed to restrict its nuclear program — and Putin went along.
  • Obama spent the end of his presidency trying to bring Russia into a multilateral agreement to end the Syrian civil war, but Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov ultimately never committed.

So Obama's team had to manage many spinning plates in addition to the active measures campaign it detected by the middle of 2016. One question Obama may address in his book is why he calibrated his choices in the way he did — whether he looked the other way on election interference to keep open other options elsewhere."



FACT CHECK: Why Didn't Obama Stop Russia's Election Interference In 2016?

Obama thought too much. But the basic answer to your question is the same one I already gave you. It was so he would not be seen as interfering in the 2016 election. Him spouting off about Russians nosing around the Trump campaign?
What part of that do you not understand? Or am I missing something?

"Thought too much"? What the heck does that mean? He felt sure that hillary would win the election so he did nothing that could possibly rock the boat. The video of obummer telling medvedev he will be more free to help pootin after the election is very telling. Why is it that you don't follow occams razor as del apparently can't seem to and acknowledge that obummer was a willing conspirator with the russians.

That is pretty obvious based on the totality of the evidence that we actually have in hand.

Obama thought too much and was sometimes indecisive in foreign policy, is what I meant. I said that because you mentioned some of that as an issue in your post.

Westwall, you and I can look at exactly the same pile of facts and see something completely different. I'm not going to change your mind. But, TRUST ME, there is another way to look at all of this which does not make Obama a conspirator with the Russians. I'm also not saying Trump was. I'll wait for Mueller on that.

I totally agree with you on the looking at facts differently part, but this video is hard to ignore. Don't you think?

Yet when Obama left office, our relations with the Russians were worse than they have been in decades. So what did that comment actually signify?

In what way were they "worse". Be specific please.

 

[xyz]

Who cares about Veselnitskaya? It was just one of many meetings with Russian officials. Russian officials themselves have said they've kept in contact.

More interesting than Veselnitskaya is Trump's lifting of the aluminum embargo.
Trump Administration Eases Sanctions on Russian Metal Giant

You should. She is the go-between!

View attachment 190356

Pretty much any of the meetings with Russians are going to involve people working for the Russian government somehow. More interesting are the communications with DJT about the meeting.

Who cares about Veselnitskaya? It was just one of many meetings with Russian officials. Russian officials themselves have said they've kept in contact.

More interesting than Veselnitskaya is Trump's lifting of the aluminum embargo.
Trump Administration Eases Sanctions on Russian Metal Giant

Yep, and all in all there were over 50 meetings with 12 different high level Trump folks - ALL of whom denied having them.

And then you can multiply that several times to estimate the number of low level meetings for the usual communication between Trump and Russia.