TULIP (God calls some to atheism)

[Grumblenuts]

1 Peter 3:1-6 ESV
Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct. Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, ...

Helpful or Not Helpful?
Peter should know, right? Bible ethics, baby! You just can't make this sh..

The whole chapter was intended to be instructional. There are roles and responsibilities in all marriages or at least there are in harmonious relationships where two are joined into one.

Duh! Wait.. Double Duh!

But yes, it begins reminding wives of their place, musses a few men's hair, and actually winds up talking about the crucifixion which we were also just discussing a bit:

18 For Christ also suffered[b] once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which[c] he went and proclaimed[d] to the spirits in prison, 20 because[e] they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

So, whether interpreted as "sacrifice" or "suffering," point was the old man either wanted his son to be the victim or his son committed suicide. Then the resurrection takes place which supposedly makes all that bloody horror show seem just fine and dandy. Totally.. worth it! Ethics "instruction" time! How to be a loving, submissive wife, swell husband, son, and super dad! Fun for the whole family!

Fantasy. Metaphor. Allegory. Symbolism. But most importantly, Instruction. Because without an instruction manual, fears, and incentives, the masses always scatter. The owners and war makers must appease the workers with bread and circuses of some sort. So "believe" in order to comply, submit, be a fart little smeller!

 

[Sunsettommy]

You finally understand where the contradiction is?

Thank you for finally making your fallacious argument manifest.

I learned to write simply for people like you who have an amazing difficulty understanding simple statements.

So you begin with ad hominem to set up your straw man, eh? Nice move . . . not.

Definition of faith:

Faith is defined as belief with strong conviction; firm belief in something for which there may be no tangible proof; complete trust, confidence, reliance, or devotion. Faith is the opposite of doubt.​

Let's syllogistically recap Sunsettommy's mindless argument:

1. Faith has only one context (the context arbitrarily selected, emboldened and imposed by Sunsettommy. The other contexts magically cease to exist.)​

​

2. Faith is the firm belief in something for which there may be no tangible proof.​

​

3. A firm belief in something cannot be predicated on tangible proof (or evidence) as that would entail a contradiction in terms.​

Well looky there! A totally fallacious argument whose conclusion would not follow even if the first premise weren't a bold face lie, and, of course, as we can all now see, the previously implied conclusion (the point Sunsettommy was trying to make all along) is what's contradictory, patently false, stupid, absurd. . . .

Yes because you can't accept simple statements at all, here is that definition again:

Faith is defined as belief with strong conviction; firm belief in something for which there may be no tangible proof; complete trust, confidence, reliance, or devotion. Faith is the opposite of doubt.

Faith and Belief are examples of a state of mind, not based on evidence, it is based on deciding this is what I will follow, absent of any concrete reason to do so. No mention of evidence needed to have faith, something you keep dodging over and over.

"Definition of belief

1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing"

=====

When I posted obvious bible contradictions, Chem Engineer replies with a stomping sneering undertone, then puts me on ignore, it sound like I created doubt in him because he who supposedly have strong faith in god ran away so fast, and made a few horrible laughable errors in the process.

I am not a threat to him yet he runs away.

My reply the coward doesn't address neither does anyone else in that thread who claims to have the spirit of god swirling in their bodies.

I quote:

Genesis Chapter 1 Verse 1-5:

The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

===

I made that full quote to show that life wasn't created in the first day, but coward Chem Engineer idiotic explanations here in the below destroyed his case:

"You quite incorrectly ASSUME that ONLY the sun and the stars are "light producing objects."

Let's see how you react to your egregious error.

1. Gases and solids can be heated and they glow brightly, such as neon lights, and incandescent lights.
2. Explosions produce light. The Big Bang was such an explosion.
3. Bioluminescence produces light.
4. Plasma produces light. "

=====

Can you spot the stupid errors?

#1 gases were never mentioned in Genesis at all. Just light........

#2 was already explained in verse one of Genesis BEFORE light was created of which it is said he made day and night out of in the first day.

#3 is stupid since life wasn't yet created in the first day, it was the 5th day before animal life came along that could generate Bioluminescence.

#4 is silly too since no mention of the sun until the 4th day.

His laughable efforts to make things up in his desperate attempt to explain away the nonsense is the best he could do.

=====

Here is my own reply that the coward ran away from to avoid reading it.

"It says that light was DAY and Darkness was NIGHT.

Sun is the only source to make day happen, night is simply the absence of the Sun being to the other side of Earth, darkness always exist by DEFAULT when there is no light generating source around.

Creates LIGHT and separates it from Darkness (remember the bible says god is HOVERING over the waters when he makes light) , no mention of a heating source for gases not mentioned in the first 5 verses. It was three days later when the sun and stars are finally mentioned. You are making things up without evidence...... that is a common Theists tactic.

"Big bang" is an unproved hypothesis, the verse doesn't mention an explosion at all, just light coming into existence. Meanwhile no SOURCE of generating light is mentioned at this point.

"1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That eliminated the big bang theory anyway since the Universe already exist BEFORE he makes light....

When was the universe created?
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." -- Genesis 1:1 Archbishop James Ussher: 22 October 4004 BCE The Universe's birthday party The full chronology

Bioluminescence doesn't exist on day one......, no life created....

No mention of plasma at all in verse one, no gases or electrical energy either..... Really I don't have to go any further since you make things up as you go........

Let's see how you react to your OWN egregious errors.'

 

[emilynghiem]

Has anyone ever spoken to God?

Indirectly and in different ways.

It is said that Christian prayer is like talking to God, and Buddhist meditation is listening and letting God answer.

When we receive insights, ideas,understanding, creative solutions, feelings of love or forgiveness increase our compassion, or we get an AHA revelation of truth or wisdom.
Any of these moments can be represented by God telling or guiding us from a higher spiritual level that reaches us.

God can mean the Source of truth, wisdom love or good will towards others.

Whatever your connection is to collective humanity and knowlegde, tapping into that is like connecting with God or the forces of Life which everyone may experience in different ways.

 

[presonorek]

Has anyone ever spoken to God?

Indirectly and in different ways.

It is said that Christian prayer is like talking to God, and Buddhist meditation is listening and letting God answer.

When we receive insights, ideas,understanding, creative solutions, feelings of love or forgiveness increase our compassion, or we get an AHA revelation of truth or wisdom.
Any of these moments can be represented by God telling or guiding us from a higher spiritual level that reaches us.

God can mean the Source of truth, wisdom love or good will towards others.

Whatever your connection is to collective humanity and knowlegde, tapping into that is like connecting with God or the forces of Life which everyone may experience in different ways.

God talked to me about 45 minutes ago. He told me that everybody on US Message Board should sent me $0.12 (twelve cents). I was like, “God, why are you telling me this? Wouldn’t it be easier for them to hear it directly from you than to hear it from me?” Then God just went all silent but I swear I heard Him chuckle a little bit but it was possibly just the thunder.

 

[emilynghiem]

I want to believe in God, and would if I could find the slightest reason to. That would be the greatest thing ever to have a personal relationship with an all knowing, all powerful God who cares about me, and comforts me in the hard times. I'm sure a real God would know how little it would take to convince me, and make me a follower forever, but, if he does exist, he doesn't seem to care about me enough to show he is real..

Scripture instructs us to seek God, not God to seek us, whom He already knows. Know God.

I spent years in church and honestly seeking God.

Dear BULLDOG
If your path in life is as a secular gentile by natural laws of reason and studying right and wrongful consequences to better establish truth and justice, that is just a separate fold and not against or in conflict with the church fold that responds to scriptural laws. Both are languages for the laws, and your native tongue may be more nontheist, while other people personify Jesus and God and speak religious languages

The truth can be expressed in either way.

The common values are to seek truth justice and peace for all people.

The common process is learning to forgive and let go, so we can receive better insights "from God" to correct problems.

 

[.oldschool]

Has anyone ever spoken to God?

Indirectly and in different ways.

It is said that Christian prayer is like talking to God, and Buddhist meditation is listening and letting God answer.

When we receive insights, ideas,understanding, creative solutions, feelings of love or forgiveness increase our compassion, or we get an AHA revelation of truth or wisdom.
Any of these moments can be represented by God telling or guiding us from a higher spiritual level that reaches us.

God can mean the Source of truth, wisdom love or good will towards others.

Whatever your connection is to collective humanity and knowlegde, tapping into that is like connecting with God or the forces of Life which everyone may experience in different ways.

Sorry Emily I have to disagree.

My understanding is that only through the Atman, Adam Kadmon , or The Holy Spirit is it possible.

Bible Gateway passage: Mark 1:9-11 - King James Version

And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[ding]

I want to believe in God, and would if I could find the slightest reason to. That would be the greatest thing ever to have a personal relationship with an all knowing, all powerful God who cares about me, and comforts me in the hard times. I'm sure a real God would know how little it would take to convince me, and make me a follower forever, but, if he does exist, he doesn't seem to care about me enough to show he is real..

How little it would take to convince you? Really? There is no evidence you will even consider.

But putting that aside, why is it the creator of existence's job to satisfy your demands? What is your obligation in all of this?

You're making some pretty big assumptions with nothing to back them up, aren't you? After spending most of my life telling myself that there has to be an omnipotent, loving God, and the only reason I couldn't make that connection was because I wasn't praying hard enough, or working hard enough to fulfill his plans for me, I finally realized I have no obligation. If a god really cares enough about me to have his son die for me, and he truly wants me to believe in him, he would at least give me some small reason to believe he exists.

What assumptions did I make? I could walk down the list for reasons for believing God exists and you would deny everyone of them. There is no evidence you will even consider.

You assume no evidence would convince me. However that is exactly what I have found. No evidence.

Because you have systematically denied all evidence. So it sounds like I didn't make an assumption after all.

 

[BULLDOG]

I want to believe in God, and would if I could find the slightest reason to. That would be the greatest thing ever to have a personal relationship with an all knowing, all powerful God who cares about me, and comforts me in the hard times. I'm sure a real God would know how little it would take to convince me, and make me a follower forever, but, if he does exist, he doesn't seem to care about me enough to show he is real..

How little it would take to convince you? Really? There is no evidence you will even consider.

But putting that aside, why is it the creator of existence's job to satisfy your demands? What is your obligation in all of this?

You're making some pretty big assumptions with nothing to back them up, aren't you? After spending most of my life telling myself that there has to be an omnipotent, loving God, and the only reason I couldn't make that connection was because I wasn't praying hard enough, or working hard enough to fulfill his plans for me, I finally realized I have no obligation. If a god really cares enough about me to have his son die for me, and he truly wants me to believe in him, he would at least give me some small reason to believe he exists.

What assumptions did I make? I could walk down the list for reasons for believing God exists and you would deny everyone of them. There is no evidence you will even consider.

You assume no evidence would convince me. However that is exactly what I have found. No evidence.

Because you have systematically denied all evidence. So it sounds like I didn't make an assumption after all.

Shut up Ding. You're just a dick.

 

[ding]

1 Peter 3:1-6 ESV
Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct. Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, ...

Helpful or Not Helpful?
Peter should know, right? Bible ethics, baby! You just can't make this sh..

The whole chapter was intended to be instructional. There are roles and responsibilities in all marriages or at least there are in harmonious relationships where two are joined into one.

Duh! Wait.. Double Duh!

But yes, it begins reminding wives of their place, musses a few men's hair, and actually winds up talking about the crucifixion which we were also just discussing a bit:

18 For Christ also suffered[b] once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which[c] he went and proclaimed[d] to the spirits in prison, 20 because[e] they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

So, whether interpreted as "sacrifice" or "suffering," point was the old man either wanted his son to be the victim or his son committed suicide. Then the resurrection takes place which supposedly makes all that bloody horror show seem just fine and dandy. Totally.. worth it! Ethics "instruction" time! How to be a loving, submissive wife, swell husband, son, and super dad! Fun for the whole family!

Fantasy. Metaphor. Allegory. Symbolism. But most importantly, Instruction. Because without an instruction manual, fears, and incentives, the masses always scatter. The owners and war makers must appease the workers with bread and circuses of some sort. So "believe" in order to comply, submit, be a fart little smeller!

Yes, instruction. Some people such as yourself may have a hard time understanding that successful behaviors naturally lead to success - which is what this instruction is ultimately saying - so they have to be reminded.

You are seeing what you want to see to avoid surrendering to God. I avoid surrendering to God too but at least I have a notion that I should.

 

[ding]

I want to believe in God, and would if I could find the slightest reason to. That would be the greatest thing ever to have a personal relationship with an all knowing, all powerful God who cares about me, and comforts me in the hard times. I'm sure a real God would know how little it would take to convince me, and make me a follower forever, but, if he does exist, he doesn't seem to care about me enough to show he is real..

How little it would take to convince you? Really? There is no evidence you will even consider.

But putting that aside, why is it the creator of existence's job to satisfy your demands? What is your obligation in all of this?

You're making some pretty big assumptions with nothing to back them up, aren't you? After spending most of my life telling myself that there has to be an omnipotent, loving God, and the only reason I couldn't make that connection was because I wasn't praying hard enough, or working hard enough to fulfill his plans for me, I finally realized I have no obligation. If a god really cares enough about me to have his son die for me, and he truly wants me to believe in him, he would at least give me some small reason to believe he exists.

What assumptions did I make? I could walk down the list for reasons for believing God exists and you would deny everyone of them. There is no evidence you will even consider.

You assume no evidence would convince me. However that is exactly what I have found. No evidence.

Because you have systematically denied all evidence. So it sounds like I didn't make an assumption after all.

Shut up Ding. You're just a dick.

Sometimes

 

[ding]

Has anyone ever spoken to God?

Indirectly and in different ways.

It is said that Christian prayer is like talking to God, and Buddhist meditation is listening and letting God answer.

When we receive insights, ideas,understanding, creative solutions, feelings of love or forgiveness increase our compassion, or we get an AHA revelation of truth or wisdom.
Any of these moments can be represented by God telling or guiding us from a higher spiritual level that reaches us.

God can mean the Source of truth, wisdom love or good will towards others.

Whatever your connection is to collective humanity and knowlegde, tapping into that is like connecting with God or the forces of Life which everyone may experience in different ways.

God talked to me about 45 minutes ago. He told me that everybody on US Message Board should sent me $0.12 (twelve cents). I was like, “God, why are you telling me this? Wouldn’t it be easier for them to hear it directly from you than to hear it from me?” Then God just went all silent but I swear I heard Him chuckle a little bit but it was possibly just the thunder.

That was effectively Karl Marx's position too.

 

[presonorek]

That was effectively Karl Marx's position too.

God didn’t give me any details on the matter. If I were you I would just send me the 12 cents or God will deduct $75.00 from your bank account automatically at an undetermined date in the future. Is it really worth the risk? You could have the financial assurance that your account is protected from the wrath of God. Wait. Hold up. I think my daughter might have 12 cents in her piggy bank. But do you accept her as a bunny rabbit with butterfly wings that shoots ice cream from her fingertips? If you will believe in her as the butterflied wing ice cream shooting bunny rabbit then I can steal the 12 cents from her on your behalf but only if you truly believe it. Do you accept or decline? I guess you have to decide how important that $75 is to you. There are only three options for you.

Option 1: Have God deduct $75 from your bank account.
Option 2: Send me 12 cents.
Option 3: Accept the 12 cents obtained from my daughter through theft as atonement for your blatant rebellion against God’s crystal clear command to give me 12 cents.

Chose this day how you will proceed. I bet you think I am making this up and God never spoke to me. Am I right?

 

[Meriweather]

there isn't any reason to believe they actually exist. You gotta explain how that works.

You can't find one reason to believe God exists? Perhaps begin with finding one reason to believe. I am guessing you do know the reasons to believe, but those reasons don't satisfy you, or meet the tests you have set for God. It is simple, really. If you cannot believe, you are an atheist. I see no problem with that.

 

[presonorek]

there isn't any reason to believe they actually exist. You gotta explain how that works.

You can't find one reason to believe God exists? Perhaps begin with finding one reason to believe. I am guessing you do know the reasons to believe, but those reasons don't satisfy you, or meet the tests you have set for God. It is simple, really. If you cannot believe, you are an atheist. I see no problem with that.

The “first cause” argument is very convincing for the existence of God. It is just when you try to name a specific god that makes things kinda tricky. Sure the god concept is logical but the Yahweh argument is not that strong.

As an atheist I try to limit my atheism to one god at a time. For the first 100 years or so I will be focusing my atheism on that god we know about from the Old Testament. If I have time I can focus my atheism on the other gods later.

 

[Meriweather]

So, whether interpreted as "sacrifice" or "suffering," point was the old man either wanted his son to be the victim or his son committed suicide. Then the resurrection takes place which supposedly makes all that bloody horror show seem just fine and dandy. Totally.. worth it!

Another perspective: Jesus' message: Sins are forgiven. (Note he was saying this while he was alive. Your sins are forgiven. Repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

This simple message alarmed religious leaders because it could affect Temple revenues, perhaps even Temple attendance. They told Jesus he had no authority to say such a thing. Only God could decide about the forgiveness of sins. Jesus responded by saying the was anointed by God, his Father, to spread this message. Religious leaders insisted there was no sign, no covenant that this message was true--therefore it came from the devil (or the Tempter).

Jesus insisted he came from God. It came to the point that it was obvious if Jesus kept declaring Sins are forgiven, he would be putting his life in danger. Religious leaders were that upset. Jesus' choice was to quietly retire and preserve his life, or choose obedience to God and continue telling people Your sins are forgiven. We know what he chose.

The result: The idea that sins are forgiven is no longer a shocking statement. In fact, it is almost taken for granted.

 

[Hollie]

So, whether interpreted as "sacrifice" or "suffering," point was the old man either wanted his son to be the victim or his son committed suicide. Then the resurrection takes place which supposedly makes all that bloody horror show seem just fine and dandy. Totally.. worth it!

Another perspective: Jesus' message: Sins are forgiven. (Note he was saying this while he was alive. Your sins are forgiven. Repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

This simple message alarmed religious leaders because it could affect Temple revenues, perhaps even Temple attendance. They told Jesus he had no authority to say such a thing. Only God could decide about the forgiveness of sins. Jesus responded by saying the was anointed by God, his Father, to spread this message. Religious leaders insisted there was no sign, no covenant that this message was true--therefore it came from the devil (or the Tempter).

Jesus insisted he came from God. It came to the point that it was obvious if Jesus kept declaring Sins are forgiven, he would be putting his life in danger. Religious leaders were that upset. Jesus' choice was to quietly retire and preserve his life, or choose obedience to God and continue telling people Your sins are forgiven. We know what he chose.

The result: The idea that sins are forgiven is no longer a shocking statement. In fact, it is almost taken for granted.

Heartwarming, but Jesus saying he came from God and sins are forgiven (<--- I neglected to add the dramatic bolding), is only obvious to someone who wants to believe it. Marshall Applewhite's claim to a spaceship following the Halle-Bopp comet was similarly heartfelt. Most people chose not to believe it. The point is, history is replete with people making grandiose claims of connections / communications with Gods, demons, supernatural entities etc., and none of them, none, ever, have been verifiable.

 

[Meriweather]

Ethics "instruction" time! How to be a loving, submissive wife, swell husband, son, and super dad! Fun for the whole family!

Let's start with a well known Proverb of the time. Recall there was no electricity, so no washing machines, not even a sewing machine.


The Virtues of a Noble Woman (Proverbs 31)

A wife of noble character, who can find?
She is far more precious than rubies.
The heart of her husband trusts in her,
and he lacks nothing of value.
She brings him good and not harm
all the days of her life.

She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.
She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.
She rises while it is still night
to provide food for her household
and portions for her maidservants.

She appraises a field and buys it;
from her earnings she plants a vineyard.
She girds herself with strength
and shows that her arms are strong.
She sees that her gain is good,
and her lamp is not extinguished at night.

She stretches out her hands to the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.
She opens her arms to the poor
and reaches out her hands to the needy.

When it snows, she has no fear for her household,
for they are all clothed in scarlet.
She makes coverings for her bed;
her clothing is fine linen and purple.

Her husband is known at the city gate,
where he sits among the elders of the land.
She makes linen garments and sells them;
she delivers sashes to the merchants.

Strength and honor are her clothing,
and she can laugh at the days to come.
She opens her mouth with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.

Her children rise up and call her blessed;
her husband praises her as well:
“Many daughters have done noble things,
but you surpass them all!”

Charm is deceptive and beauty is fleeting,
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
Give her the fruit of her hands,
and let her works praise her at the gates.

I noted previously that our word and definition for submissive and subject didn't come about until the fourteenth century; that Peter (and the audience of him time) understood what he was saying is that a wife should be selfless, voluntarily selfless. The Virtues of a Noble Woman (also from Biblical times) verifies the selflessness of a good wife, not today's definition of submissiveness.

Can you picture a time of no electricity and what it would take to manage a home? Modern Jews have told me that while it is true that in Biblical times women did have no say outside the home (in public), inside the home was her domain and she was certainly considered an equal of the husband. Two as one.

 

[Meriweather]

The “first cause” argument is very convincing for the existence of God.

I find that God in our midst, and God's interaction with people down through the ages, is convincing for the existence of God.

 

[Hollie]

Ethics "instruction" time! How to be a loving, submissive wife, swell husband, son, and super dad! Fun for the whole family!

Let's start with a well known Proverb of the time. Recall there was no electricity, so no washing machines, not even a sewing machine.


The Virtues of a Noble Woman (Proverbs 31)

A wife of noble character, who can find?
She is far more precious than rubies.
The heart of her husband trusts in her,
and he lacks nothing of value.
She brings him good and not harm
all the days of her life.

She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.
She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.
She rises while it is still night
to provide food for her household
and portions for her maidservants.

She appraises a field and buys it;
from her earnings she plants a vineyard.
She girds herself with strength
and shows that her arms are strong.
She sees that her gain is good,
and her lamp is not extinguished at night.

She stretches out her hands to the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.
She opens her arms to the poor
and reaches out her hands to the needy.

When it snows, she has no fear for her household,
for they are all clothed in scarlet.
She makes coverings for her bed;
her clothing is fine linen and purple.

Her husband is known at the city gate,
where he sits among the elders of the land.
She makes linen garments and sells them;
she delivers sashes to the merchants.

Strength and honor are her clothing,
and she can laugh at the days to come.
She opens her mouth with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.

Her children rise up and call her blessed;
her husband praises her as well:
“Many daughters have done noble things,
but you surpass them all!”

Charm is deceptive and beauty is fleeting,
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
Give her the fruit of her hands,
and let her works praise her at the gates.

I noted previously that our word and definition for submissive and subject didn't come about until the fourteenth century; that Peter (and the audience of him time) understood what he was saying is that a wife should be selfless, voluntarily selfless. The Virtues of a Noble Woman (also from Biblical times) verifies the selflessness of a good wife, not today's definition of submissiveness.

Can you picture a time of no electricity and what it would take to manage a home? Modern Jews have told me that while it is true that in Biblical times women did have no say outside the home (in public), inside the home was her domain and she was certainly considered an equal of the husband. Two as one.

On the other hand:


“They ask you about menstruation. Say: ‘It is an indisposition. Keep aloof from women during their menstrual periods and do not approach them until they are clean again; when they are clean, have intercourse with them whence God enjoined you….'” Quran 2:222, “The Cow,” Dawood, p. 34

“Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please.” Quran 2:223, “The Cow,” Dawood, p. 34

“Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them.” Quran 4:34, “Women,” Dawood, p. 83

“A male shall inherit twice as much as a female.” Quran 4:11, “Women,” Dawood, p. 77

“Call in two male witnesses from among you, but if two men cannot be found, then one man and two women whom you judge fit to act as witnesses…” Quran 2:282, “The Cow,” Dawood, p. 47

“Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women.” Quran 2:228, Dawood, p. 35


Let's remember that Muhammud was visited by the angel Gabriel who revealed God's final word and corrected the errors of Christianity.

Why would God have sent his angel if Christianity did not need revision and correction?

 

[Meriweather]

and none of them, none, ever, have been verifiable.

Most philosophies ideas, not physical realities. Only physical realities can be verified. Philosophies must be lived, and each individual should be able to note whether a philosophy is true and works in his/her unique life.

Believing what Jesus said about the Father, his obedience to the Father, and his relation to the Father varies from person to person. If the philosophy/idea that sins are forgiven works in their life, this is reason to believe what Jesus also said about God. If one sees no sin in life, and no need for forgiveness, they may have a different take.