Ukraine wants in to NATO

[MaryL]

Really? Proof?

Proof? Of what? Ukraine ISN'T in NATO, they only apply NOW . And Why is Russia so paranoid of NATO? If they have the best of intensions, what difference does it make?

 

[airplanemechanic]

Proof? Of what? Ukraine ISN'T in NATO, they only apply NOW . And Why is Russia so paranoid of NATO? If they have the best of intensions, what difference does it make?

PROOF THAT THEY COULD HAVE JOINED YEARS AGO.

You made the fucking claim, back it up.

 

[1srelluc]

 

[MaryL]

Secondary side question: Why does Russia fear NATO so much? Is that oligarchy old school ex Soviet leader of the KGB Putin afraid of something?

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Sure the Ukraine joins and the United States gets out.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Mac-7]

Question is: Should we?

Before putin invaded I would have said no

but if russia is forced to withdraw then there no need to worry about provoking them

because they are already provoked

yes, let them in

 

[Sunni Man]

Russia is paranoid about the Ukrainian government, which is very pro western, allowing the EU orNATO or the U.S. putting medium range missiles on Ukraine land.
That if Ukraine became a NATO member, they could and would put nuclear missiles basically on Russia's border.
Russia wouldn't stand for that and now you're talking WW3

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

You shouldn't have to endure bombardments into civilian areas because you are not a NATO signatory....yes confronting Russia would risk a huge war...but if the free nations of the world could come together and enforce a no-fly zone to defend civilians Russia would rethink their position on targeting civilian dwellings...
I can't guarantee they would back down if we stood up to them but I can guarantee what will happen if he is allowed to proceed...and that could be him eventually invading a member of NATO....with bases all throughout Ukraine....

This is why we should never elect a senile old man ever again....

You're an idiot.

 

[excalibur]

Question is: Should we?

No.

 

[MaryL]

Why did Russia invade Afghanistan, Crimea or...funny can't find the name of the last country, its been mysteriously scubbed. Oh, yes: Gerogia. No threats to Russia nor NATO countries.

 

[excalibur]

Russia is paranoid about the Ukrainian government, which is very pro western, allowing the EU orNATO or the U.S. putting medium range missiles on Ukraine land.
That if Ukraine became a NATO member, they could and would put nuclear missiles basically on Russia's border.
Russia wouldn't stand for that and now you're talking WW3

The Ukrainian government is a mess.

Hell, we blather about "democracy" now for Ukraine yet when a democratically elected President of Ukraine upset people we and the EU rigged an insurrection against him in 2014.

... when a series of violent events involving protesters, riot police, and unknown shooters in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv culminated in the ousting of elected President Viktor Yanukovych and the overthrow of the Ukrainian government.​

Wikiwand - Revolution of Dignity

The Revolution of Dignity, also known as the Maidan Revolution or the Ukrainian Revolution, took place in Ukraine in February 2014 at the end of the Euromaidan protests, when deadly clashes between protesters and state forces in the capital Kyiv culminated in the ousting of elected President...

www.wikiwand.com

 

[Flopper]

The people of Crimea voted to join with Russia years ago.
Ukraine must never be allow to join NATO.
Russians are paranoid about them doing so and would go to war with NATO members if they allowed it.

Russia believes Ukraine is part of Russia as it had been for hundreds of years. When the Russian Empire failed, Ukraine declared independence but Russia brought it back into the fold in a year. And when the USSR failed Russia's claim remains. Ukraine independence and joining NATO would be equivalent to Puerto Rico declaring it's independence from the US and allying itself with Cuba.

When Putin laid out his terms for avoiding war, the war became inevitable as will be Ukraine return to Russia. The reason is the terms to avoid war were far more than just a promise of no Ukraine NATO membership. He also demanded that NATO return to a pre-1997 military status in Europe and remove all strike weapons near Russian borders, a demand that was dead in the water.

 

[excalibur]

From the same link as above.

In December 2013, Republican Senator John McCain in company with Democratic senator Chris Murphy visited Yatsenyuk and Tyahnybok and later addressed the crowds:

Ukraine will make Europe better and Europe will make Ukraine better, we are here to support your just cause, the sovereign right of Ukraine to determine its own destiny freely and independently. And the destiny you seek lies in Europe, What we're trying to do is try to bring about a peaceful transition here, that would stop the violence and give the Ukrainian people what they unfortunately have not had, with different revolutions that have taken place – a real society.

This is a grassroots revolution here – it's been peaceful except when the government tried to crack down on them, and the government hasn't tried that since. I'm praising their ability and their desire to demonstrate peacefully for change that I think they deserve. These people love the United States of America, they love freedom – and I don't think you could view this as anything other than our traditional support for people who want free and democratic society

McCain's hands are all over the mess that is Ukraine.​

 

[Sunni Man]

Some people here think Russia is just being over the top paranoid about having NATO missiles in Ukraine pointing at them.
But in the early 1960's we were preparing for all out nuclear war over Russia having nuclear missiles 90 miles from our border in Cuba.

 

[HappyJoy]

Question is: Should we?

Not in the moment, of course not.

In the future, maybe. Looks like Finland and Sweden will be next in line and currently they don't have any border conflicts/wars going on that would automatically invalidate the possibility like Ukraine has had to deal with.

Russia has never attacked a NATO country and there is very good reason as to why.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Secondary side question: Why does Russia fear NATO so much? Is that oligarchy old school ex Soviet leader of the KGB Putin afraid of something?

Yeah. Being exposed for all the shitty stuff NATO does on the daily is going to be kind of a bummer to the morale of the citizens that openly support these narcissistic shit heels currently ruling NATO as illegitimate. Nothing can equalize this nonsense.

 

[MaryL]

Russia believes Ukraine is part of Russia as it had been for hundreds of years. When the Russian Empire failed, Ukraine declared independence but Russia brought it back into the fold in a year. And when the USSR failed Russia's claim remains. Ukraine independence and joining NATO would be equivalent to Puerto Rico declaring it's independence from the US and allying itself with Cuba.

When Putin laid out his terms for avoiding war, the war became inevitable as will be Ukraine return to Russia. The reason is the terms to avoid war were far more than just a promise of no Ukraine NATO membership. He also demanded that NATO return to a pre-1997 military status in Europe and remove all strike weapons near Russian borders, a demand that was dead in the water.

Let's let the Ukrainians decide that, her Hitler said germany owned 2/3 of Europe. Because he said so. On that same note: Putin isn't the decider of what's what.

 

[Esdraelon]

Interesting piece. I respect Greenwald's work, immensely. The world is at a real and dangerous inflection -point.

 

[HappyJoy]

Let's let the Ukrainians decide that, her Hitler said germany owned 2/3 of Europe. Because he said so. On that same note: Putin isn't the decider of what's what.

It appears Ukraine made it's decision, hence Putin's reaction.

"her Hitler"? Jesus Christ.

 

[White 6]

Not in the moment, of course not.

In the future, maybe. Looks like Finland and Sweden will be next in line and currently they don't have any border conflicts/wars going on that would automatically invalidate the possibility like Ukraine has had to deal with.

Russia has never attacked a NATO country and there is very good reason as to why.

Thanks. Saved me a lot of typing.