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Nobody I know is doing better than their parents, dumbass. That's the point.
This is what 30 years of war on working folks have brought us.
A hollowed out middle class...
You mustn't know many people then.
And you took a shot at PC for not having any friends. Tsk, tsk.
Wow, stalking me on other threads... you know the neighbors are complaining about the tissues you keep leaving in their bushes.
I know a lot of people. Nearly all of them say the same thing... More debt, less oppurtunity. Don't know if they will ever get their kids into college.
And frankly, I'm not a young guy. I see the generation that is following mine having an even harder time of it.
I am squarely middle class--well probably more on the low end of middle class--and I have had jobs I loved, jobs I hated, have earned wages that I thought were not commensurate with my abilities and contributions to a company, but I've never earned less than I agreed to work for. Because I chose to accept a crappy job when nothing else was available, was not the fault of the system. But we have also been willing to change jobs when we needed to and were able to, to move when we needed to in order to better our position, and we both have always given better than what our jobs required of us which has allowed us to move up to better circumstances.
Unlike what the union mentality would have us believe, most Americans willingh to work for what they receive and willing to do what they need to do to get ahead, are doing pretty well. Those stuck in the "I deserve more of what you have" mentality very often don't prosper as well because it shows up in their work ethic, their atttitude, and their outlook on life in general.
I remember everyone saying the same thing to me in the early 90s when I started looking for work. The 1990s boomed. Which were a time, BTW, of declining union membership.
Nonetheless, your claim that living standards are the same as they were in 1980 for the middle class is simply flat out wrong.
I am squarely middle class--well probably more on the low end of middle class--and I have had jobs I loved, jobs I hated, have earned wages that I thought were not commensurate with my abilities and contributions to a company, but I've never earned less than I agreed to work for. Because I chose to accept a crappy job when nothing else was available, was not the fault of the system. But we have also been willing to change jobs when we needed to and were able to, to move when we needed to in order to better our position, and we both have always given better than what our jobs required of us which has allowed us to move up to better circumstances.
Unlike what the union mentality would have us believe, most Americans willingh to work for what they receive and willing to do what they need to do to get ahead, are doing pretty well. Those stuck in the "I deserve more of what you have" mentality very often don't prosper as well because it shows up in their work ethic, their atttitude, and their outlook on life in general.
Oh, please, I'm probably better educated and make more money than you do, and frankly, it's still unacceptable.
If you want to suffer from Stoklholm Syndrome and sympathize with your abusers, go right ahead. I think it's a bit pathetic and sad.
I don't tolerate abuse at all, I don't have a clue which of us is better educated, and you almost certainly make more money than I do since we have retired. Stockholm syndrome? Hardly. The reason we chose to go into business for ourselves some years ago was because hubby was burned out in his profession and I was working for a grade A asshole who was making my life miserable despite the fact that because I was working on straight commission, and was willing to work weekend and sometimes 12 to 16 hr days, I was earning more than he was. Making really good money in fact.
But the difference between you and me is that I don't see myself as being entitled to what somebody else earns. Nor do I begrudge those who earn great money. I expect what I contract with an employer to pay. No more no less. If I feel that my work in undervalued, I sell my labor to somebody else. It is as simple as that.
I don't tolerate abuse at all, I don't have a clue which of us is better educated, and you almost certainly make more money than I do since we have retired. Stockholm syndrome? Hardly. The reason we chose to go into business for ourselves some years ago was because hubby was burned out in his profession and I was working for a grade A asshole who was making my life miserable despite the fact that because I was working on straight commission, and was willing to work weekend and sometimes 12 to 16 hr days, I was earning more than he was. Making really good money in fact.
But the difference between you and me is that I don't see myself as being entitled to what somebody else earns. Nor do I begrudge those who earn great money. I expect what I contract with an employer to pay. No more no less. If I feel that my work in undervalued, I sell my labor to somebody else. It is as simple as that.
I have some silly idea that if I don't lie to or cheat my employer, he owes me the same courtesy.
Sadly, haven't worked for that employer yet...
But your oh so fine with the ones that do because, hey, you were a boss once and god knows what your employees would say about you if we heard their side of the story.
I wasn't talking about LIVING STANDARDS, you dumbass. I was talking about real wages.
Purchasing Power, which Jake has been cleaning the floor with you on.
I wasn't talking about LIVING STANDARDS, you dumbass. I was talking about real wages.
Purchasing Power, which Jake has been cleaning the floor with you on.
Real income has risen since 1970, 1980 and 1990. That is what I posted. What you posted at the beginning of this thread I confirmed but explained why using Households skews the data to look like income has not risen as fast as it has.
You nor Jake understand what purchasing power is in the context of real wages. I have discovered that Jake isn't very bright. You might be a bigoted thug but you're not an idiot. You might want to think again before tossing your hat into the ring with him regarding empirical data he doesn't understand.
You saying the purchasing power has increased is flat out wrong, Toro. Your own graphs proves your lie.
I wasn't talking about LIVING STANDARDS, you dumbass. I was talking about real wages.
Purchasing Power, which Jake has been cleaning the floor with you on.
Real income has risen since 1970, 1980 and 1990. That is what I posted. What you posted at the beginning of this thread I confirmed but explained why using Households skews the data to look like income has not risen as fast as it has.
You nor Jake understand what purchasing power is in the context of real wages. I have discovered that Jake isn't very bright. You might be a bigoted thug but you're not an idiot. You might want to think again before tossing your hat into the ring with him regarding empirical data he doesn't understand.
Guy, I understand it very well.
I understand that I don't have the purchasing power I had when I was a Staff Sergeant in the Army or what my father had.
And it's pretty much true for everyone I know.
You saying the purchasing power has increased is flat out wrong, Toro. Your own graphs proves your lie.
In our conversation, I have discovered you don't understand what you are talking about. Here is why.
- You didn't understand the meaning of purchasing power yet you continue to argue
- You didn't realize that you posted the same graph I did, except the data went out another 4 years
- I have posted multiple times that incomes have risen since 1970, 1980 and 1990. The graph you posted confirms that.
- You asked for a graph that I already posted, and that I not explain it.
- You apparently don't understand the concept of "households" and "per capita."
I can only conclude you aren't very sharp.
Nothing personal.
Real income has risen since 1970, 1980 and 1990. That is what I posted. What you posted at the beginning of this thread I confirmed but explained why using Households skews the data to look like income has not risen as fast as it has.
You nor Jake understand what purchasing power is in the context of real wages. I have discovered that Jake isn't very bright. You might be a bigoted thug but you're not an idiot. You might want to think again before tossing your hat into the ring with him regarding empirical data he doesn't understand.
Guy, I understand it very well.
I understand that I don't have the purchasing power I had when I was a Staff Sergeant in the Army or what my father had.
And it's pretty much true for everyone I know.
It's not true for everyone even if it is true for everyone you know.
It's not true for everyone even if it is true for everyone you know.
It's not true for everyone even if it is true for everyone you know.
I would say I represent a better slice of Middle America than you do.
And I live in Chicago. We've actually done pretty well compared to the rest of the Midwest.
Went to Cleveland a couple months ago, and man, was that depressing as shit.
It's not true for everyone even if it is true for everyone you know.
I would say I represent a better slice of Middle America than you do.
And I live in Chicago. We've actually done pretty well compared to the rest of the Midwest.
Went to Cleveland a couple months ago, and man, was that depressing as shit.
It isn't a question of who represents the middle class. It is a question of what the stats say.
And the middle class of this country does not consist of pathetic high school drop out losers like you.
It's not true for everyone even if it is true for everyone you know.
I would say I represent a better slice of Middle America than you do.
And I live in Chicago. We've actually done pretty well compared to the rest of the Midwest.
Went to Cleveland a couple months ago, and man, was that depressing as shit.
