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Joe is typical of the union mentality: give me mine, everyone else can get screwed.
Protectionism makes for inefficient outmoded industries that cannot compete and demand more and more gov't guarantees to stay in business. This is not theory but fact. It is bad for everyone except the few union employees. And ultimately bad for them too once the gov't decides it's had enough leaching.
That is simply false. The US has used trade protection on a wide range of products, such as steel, softwood lumber, media, defense, etc.
You've had enough of free trade because it hurts you. But to protect you, everybody else would have to pay.
No, I'm against free trade because of this...
That's how much wealth we've been bleeding out since the 1970's.
Free trade hurts nearly everyone.
That is simply false. The US has used trade protection on a wide range of products, such as steel, softwood lumber, media, defense, etc.
You've had enough of free trade because it hurts you. But to protect you, everybody else would have to pay.
No, I'm against free trade because of this...
That's how much wealth we've been bleeding out since the 1970's.
Free trade hurts nearly everyone.
Mercantilism is a discredited concept in economics.
Sorry.
Joe is typical of the union mentality: give me mine, everyone else can get screwed.
Protectionism makes for inefficient outmoded industries that cannot compete and demand more and more gov't guarantees to stay in business. This is not theory but fact. It is bad for everyone except the few union employees. And ultimately bad for them too once the gov't decides it's had enough leaching.
Guy, the Japanese have protectionism and stronger unions than we do. So do the Germans.
What they don't have are executives who make 8 figure salaries for failing.
That's a uniquely AMerican thing.
Union Boss salaries- They have a lot in common with the people they represent
yes the 1%
Michael J. Sullivan, general president of the Sheet Metal Workers International Association
Salary: $1,043,023
Robert A. Scardelletti, international president of the Transportation Communications Union
Salary: $748,531
Newton B. Jones, president of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers
Salary: $607,022
Terence M. OSullivan, general president of the Laborers International Union of North America
Salary: $589,124
John T. Niccollai, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union, Local 464A
Salary: $532,752
Gerald McEntee, international president of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees
Salary: $512,369
Compared to CEO salaries, you mean?
The Pay at the Top - The New York Times
Viacom Philippe P. Dauman $84,000,000
Occidental Petroleum Ray R. Irani $76,000,000
Oracle Lawrence J. Ellison $70.1 million.
No, I'm against free trade because of this...
That's how much wealth we've been bleeding out since the 1970's.
Free trade hurts nearly everyone.
Mercantilism is a discredited concept in economics.
Sorry.
So says the Wall Street Bloodsucker...
Frankly, I'm just not seeing how running trillions in trade deficits is good for the country.
Just. Not. Seeing. It.
Not to mention completely losing the ability to manufacture certain things at all.
We won WWII because of our ability to manufacture on an unprecedented scale. Today, could we do that, if let's say, China completely lost its mind like Nazi Germany and attempted global domination?
And this is the problem. You aren't even a freakin' American, lecturing to me about what is good for America.
The mercantilist era has passed. Modern economists accept Adam Smith’s insight that free trade leads to international specialization of labor and, usually, to greater economic well-being for all nations.
Joe is typical of the union mentality: give me mine, everyone else can get screwed.
Protectionism makes for inefficient outmoded industries that cannot compete and demand more and more gov't guarantees to stay in business. This is not theory but fact. It is bad for everyone except the few union employees. And ultimately bad for them too once the gov't decides it's had enough leaching.
Guy, the Japanese have protectionism and stronger unions than we do. So do the Germans.
What they don't have are executives who make 8 figure salaries for failing.
That's a uniquely AMerican thing.
And the Japanese economy has sucked for 2 decades. The German economy woefully underperformed ours for 3 decades.
Those aren't models I want to follow.
Your point?
[
Interesting that you bring up WWII, because it was the advent of both world wars that nations decided they had to pursue free trade to increase wealth and avoid such disastrous wars again. Your model - the failed model of inward looking isolationism, mercantilism and autarky - preceded both WWI and WWII. Economists and historians rightly concluded that the movement away from globalization was a contributing factor to both wars, with Smoot-Hawley being the most egregious example, driving the United States further into the Depression. Since WWII, it is the countries which have opened their borders the fastest which have also grown the fastest, and those countries that pursued your failed policies which stagnated or worse. Read up on the economic history of Argentina to find how a rich, prosperous nation turned inward to protect its industries - and labour unions - leading it to second world status. There are several examples like this.
Guy, the Japanese have protectionism and stronger unions than we do. So do the Germans.
What they don't have are executives who make 8 figure salaries for failing.
That's a uniquely AMerican thing.
And the Japanese economy has sucked for 2 decades. The German economy woefully underperformed ours for 3 decades.
Those aren't models I want to follow.
Your point?
It depends how you define "Underperforming". Unemployment in Japan right now is 5%. Germany has a lower unemployment rate than ours and is carrying the rest of Europe these days.
Now, true, people aren't making obscene money, but for the average person, things are a lot better.
EEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKK Socialism!!!!!!!!
[
Interesting that you bring up WWII, because it was the advent of both world wars that nations decided they had to pursue free trade to increase wealth and avoid such disastrous wars again. Your model - the failed model of inward looking isolationism, mercantilism and autarky - preceded both WWI and WWII. Economists and historians rightly concluded that the movement away from globalization was a contributing factor to both wars, with Smoot-Hawley being the most egregious example, driving the United States further into the Depression. Since WWII, it is the countries which have opened their borders the fastest which have also grown the fastest, and those countries that pursued your failed policies which stagnated or worse. Read up on the economic history of Argentina to find how a rich, prosperous nation turned inward to protect its industries - and labour unions - leading it to second world status. There are several examples like this.
Again, horseshit.
First, the cause of the world war was that those nations in Europe and Japan persued practices of imperialism. Finding places to conquer to have captive markets and cheap sources of raw material and establishing the First World/THird World divide that still exists today.
The US did well in the aftermath of the war because we avoided that stupidity. We dipped our tow in the imperialism pool in the Philippines, and immediately realized how wrong it was.
Second, Smoot Hawley is often brought up by the Free Traders as a bogeyman, but the world was already in the throws of the great depression . At the time, we were an export economy, and the world was already throwing up tariffs against our exports and turning inward.
The thing is, every time we sign another treaty, two things happen. 1) Our Trade deficit increases and 2) we loose a shitload of jobs.
If Outsourcing were such a good deal, then the Bloodsuckers wouldn't need tax breaks to do it... why we give it to them is the mystery, but that's what happens when you let them buy your government.
"The best government money can buy" isn't good enough anymore.
I wonder what universe you live in.[
Interesting that you bring up WWII, because it was the advent of both world wars that nations decided they had to pursue free trade to increase wealth and avoid such disastrous wars again. Your model - the failed model of inward looking isolationism, mercantilism and autarky - preceded both WWI and WWII. Economists and historians rightly concluded that the movement away from globalization was a contributing factor to both wars, with Smoot-Hawley being the most egregious example, driving the United States further into the Depression. Since WWII, it is the countries which have opened their borders the fastest which have also grown the fastest, and those countries that pursued your failed policies which stagnated or worse. Read up on the economic history of Argentina to find how a rich, prosperous nation turned inward to protect its industries - and labour unions - leading it to second world status. There are several examples like this.
Again, horseshit.
First, the cause of the world war was that those nations in Europe and Japan persued practices of imperialism. Finding places to conquer to have captive markets and cheap sources of raw material and establishing the First World/THird World divide that still exists today.
The US did well in the aftermath of the war because we avoided that stupidity. We dipped our tow in the imperialism pool in the Philippines, and immediately realized how wrong it was.
Second, Smoot Hawley is often brought up by the Free Traders as a bogeyman, but the world was already in the throws of the great depression . At the time, we were an export economy, and the world was already throwing up tariffs against our exports and turning inward.
The thing is, every time we sign another treaty, two things happen. 1) Our Trade deficit increases and 2) we loose a shitload of jobs.
If Outsourcing were such a good deal, then the Bloodsuckers wouldn't need tax breaks to do it... why we give it to them is the mystery, but that's what happens when you let them buy your government.
"The best government money can buy" isn't good enough anymore.
And the Japanese economy has sucked for 2 decades. The German economy woefully underperformed ours for 3 decades.
Those aren't models I want to follow.
Your point?
It depends how you define "Underperforming". Unemployment in Japan right now is 5%. Germany has a lower unemployment rate than ours and is carrying the rest of Europe these days.
Now, true, people aren't making obscene money, but for the average person, things are a lot better.
EEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKK Socialism!!!!!!!!
You really are pretty ignorant, aren't you?
GDP growth in both countries has lagged the US for about 30 years. That is underperforming. Unemployment really doesn't have much to do with the picture.
One of the hardest things to get in this world is a truthful, or at least a somewhat realistic, or at the very least a not totally fabricated unemployment number, but every country has its own bureaucratic madness in pursuing obfuscation.
And Germany is no exception. Official unemployment—3,081,706 unemployed and an unemployment rate of 7.3%—dropped to a two-decade low in January, but a recreational dive into the Federal Labor Agency’s monthly report (Monatsbericht) reveals another story. . . .
. . . .Turns out, certain groups of unemployed people are systematically excluded from the official unemployment numbers, though they’re listed in the monthly report and are known—unlike the inscrutable statistical adjustments meted out in the bowels of the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. On second thought, statistical adjustments must also be taking place in Germany because the numbers still don’t add up. These are the excluded groups:
• Participants in “select measures of active labor market policies,” such as obtaining qualifications and professional training: 1,075,004.
• Participants in “activation” and “job integration” programs: 127,742
• Those in “preretirement-like ruling (special status)”: 106,973
• Participants in government-paid job training: 154,648
• People who are called in inimitable German, "1-Euro-Jobbers." They perform tasks that are deigned communally useful, such as clearing snow from city streets in Leipzig: 133,298.
• Participants in language courses, integration courses, and other programs that are funded by agencies other than the Federal Labor Agency: 72,513
• Participants in citizens jobs programs: 21,823
• People who are difficult to find jobs for: 9,533
• Unemployed who are temporarily sick: 68,202
In total: 1,701,534.
Added to the headline number of the officially unemployed (3,081,706), we get a total of 4,783,2
Added to the headline number of the officially unemployed (3,081,706), we get a total of 4,783,240. And it does not include the underemployed who are stuck in part-time jobs but are looking for full-time jobs.
Alas, in January, 5,394,064 people actually received unemployment compensation. So clearly, I must have missed a few categories.
But it gets even worse: People 58 and older are excluded from the official unemployment numbers, even if they're desperately looking for a job. They don’t receive unemployment compensation but, conveniently, pre-retirement compensation. So they don't count for the simple reason that they're too old to count. That’s the German baby-boom generation. They're turning 58 in massive numbers and fall unceremoniously off the unemployment lists. In September 2011, the last month for which official numbers were available: 374,592.
Read more: Germany Really Looks Like It's Fudging Those Unemployment Numbers - Business Insider
And Japan is really fucked if they don't do something dramatic soon.
Just to keep the record straight re those low unemployment numbers in Germany that JoeB uses to further blugeon American capitalism:
One of the hardest things to get in this world is a truthful, or at least a somewhat realistic, or at the very least a not totally fabricated unemployment number, but every country has its own bureaucratic madness in pursuing obfuscation.
And Germany is no exception. Official unemployment3,081,706 unemployed and an unemployment rate of 7.3%dropped to a two-decade low in January, but a recreational dive into the Federal Labor Agencys monthly report (Monatsbericht) reveals another story. . . .
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And Japan is really fucked if they don't do something dramatic soon.
But not for the reason you bloodsuckers say.
Japan's problem is that it's demographically aging, and it's not letting in immigrants to make up the difference.
And Japan is really fucked if they don't do something dramatic soon.
But not for the reason you bloodsuckers say.
Japan's problem is that it's demographically aging, and it's not letting in immigrants to make up the difference.
And debt to GDP of 220%.
You union parasites get part of it.
And Japan is really fucked if they don't do something dramatic soon.
But not for the reason you bloodsuckers say.
Japan's problem is that it's demographically aging, and it's not letting in immigrants to make up the difference.
And debt to GDP of 220%.
You union parasites get part of it.
