Unions are not happy with Obamacare

[usmcstinger]

Unions supported Obama's election and reelection.

Unions have suddenly discovered Obamacare's negative impact on them.

Last month, the president of the 22,000-member United Union of Roofers, Waterproofers and Allied Workers went so far as to issue a statement calling for the full repeal of Obamacare, saying it destroys the "protections" workers now have.

A Reason for Conservatives to Love Obamacare

 

[Greenbeard]

The idea of universal health care means different things to different kinds of unions: namely, unions representing a number of uninsured workers (e.g. SEIU) vs. unions that secure very good benefits for their members from employers. The latter has always been less apt than the former to be thrilled about universal health care proposals.

The reason should be pretty obvious: landing decent health benefits for their members through collective bargaining agreements was a significant part of their function and appeal in the last century. If everyone has access to good benefits regardless of union membership, then union influence erodes. The ACA is less of a threat to those groups because it still strives to preserve the employer-based system of insurance that allows unions a role (which is why the kinds of griping documented in the OP remain the exception, not the rule).

That said, the ACA is eliminating the disparity that has made getting insurance through an employer or group--say, in a union-negotiated plan--so much more appealing than shopping for a plan on one's own.

Now that people are going to be able to look for an affordable plan of their choosing with good benefits in a competitive marketplace that protects their rights as consumers and levels the playing field between them and the insurers, this notion (which has historically been true) that if you want good health insurance you need to get it through someone else--an employer or union--is going to start to dissipate. Which means in the long run, one more traditional function of unions is going to become unnecessary. So it's not all that surprising to see mixed emotions on their part.

 

[Claudette]

Unions supported Obama's election and reelection.

Unions have suddenly discovered Obamacare's negative impact on them.

Last month, the president of the 22,000-member United Union of Roofers, Waterproofers and Allied Workers went so far as to issue a statement calling for the full repeal of Obamacare, saying it destroys the "protections" workers now have.

A Reason for Conservatives to Love Obamacare

Oh I think your going to find that loads of people aren't going to be happy with Obamacare.

 

[usmcstinger]

The idea of universal health care means different things to different kinds of unions: namely, unions representing a number of uninsured workers (e.g. SEIU) vs. unions that secure very good benefits for their members from employers. The latter has always been less apt than the former to be thrilled about universal health care proposals.

The reason should be pretty obvious: landing decent health benefits for their members through collective bargaining agreements was a significant part of their function and appeal in the last century. If everyone has access to good benefits regardless of union membership, then union influence erodes. The ACA is less of a threat to those groups because it still strives to preserve the employer-based system of insurance that allows unions a role (which is why the kinds of griping documented in the OP remain the exception, not the rule).

That said, the ACA is eliminating the disparity that has made getting insurance through an employer or group--say, in a union-negotiated plan--so much more appealing than shopping for a plan on one's own.

Now that people are going to be able to look for an affordable plan of their choosing with good benefits in a competitive marketplace that protects their rights as consumers and levels the playing field between them and the insurers, this notion (which has historically been true) that if you want good health insurance you need to get it through someone else--an employer or union--is going to start to dissipate. Which means in the long run, one more traditional function of unions is going to become unnecessary. So it's not all that surprising to see mixed emotions on their part.

Good Obamacare talking points.

The link I provided tells a different story.

More for you to chew on.

The International Union of Operating Engineers Local 150 of Countryside, Ill., which represents construction workers and insures about 65,000 people, is also examining whether some lower-earning workers would eventually be better off leaving the union-sponsored plan and instead getting federally subsidized insurance.

To offset that, the nation's largest labor groups want their lower-paid members to be able to get federal insurance subsidies while remaining on their plans. In the law, these subsidies were designed only for low-income workers without employer coverage as a way to help them buy private insurance

Labor Unions Finally Read Obamacare Fine Print, Realize Costs Set To Spike, "Turn Sour" On Obama | Zero Hedge

Their emotions are not mixed. They are angry!

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Screw the Affordable Health Care Act. It sucks. It's compromised bullshit.

There's no reason on this planet why we can't have universal healthcare. It's absurd that insurance corporations, whose only duty and responsibility is to create a profit for its shareholders, SHOULD NOT BE DICTATING MY MEDICAL CARE.

The citizens of other First World countries are aghast at our allowing insurance companies to rule our lives. I don't mean government RUN health care, I mean government FUNDED by our tax dollars. Big difference.

 

[namvet]

Pislosi: sign the bill then read it

 

[The Rabbi]

Screw the Affordable Health Care Act. It sucks. It's compromised bullshit.

There's no reason on this planet why we can't have universal healthcare. It's absurd that insurance corporations, whose only duty and responsibility is to create a profit for its shareholders, SHOULD NOT BE DICTATING MY MEDICAL CARE.

The citizens of other First World countries are aghast at our allowing insurance companies to rule our lives. I don't mean government RUN health care, I mean government FUNDED by our tax dollars. Big difference.

Well, there's a good reason why we dont have single payer. I'll let Slobbering Barney tell you about. Oh yeah, that and the fact that it's beena disaster everywhere. Exploding costs and second rate care.

 

[namvet]

Screw the Affordable Health Care Act. It sucks. It's compromised bullshit.

There's no reason on this planet why we can't have universal healthcare. It's absurd that insurance corporations, whose only duty and responsibility is to create a profit for its shareholders, SHOULD NOT BE DICTATING MY MEDICAL CARE.

The citizens of other First World countries are aghast at our allowing insurance companies to rule our lives. I don't mean government RUN health care, I mean government FUNDED by our tax dollars. Big difference.

Well, there's a good reason why we dont have single payer. I'll let Slobbering Barney tell you about. Oh yeah, that and the fact that it's beena disaster everywhere. Exploding costs and second rate care.

the master of the housing crash

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Screw the Affordable Health Care Act. It sucks. It's compromised bullshit.

There's no reason on this planet why we can't have universal healthcare. It's absurd that insurance corporations, whose only duty and responsibility is to create a profit for its shareholders, SHOULD NOT BE DICTATING MY MEDICAL CARE.

The citizens of other First World countries are aghast at our allowing insurance companies to rule our lives. I don't mean government RUN health care, I mean government FUNDED by our tax dollars. Big difference.

Well, there's a good reason why we dont have single payer. I'll let Slobbering Barney tell you about. Oh yeah, that and the fact that it's beena disaster everywhere. Exploding costs and second rate care.

Do you want to back up that ridiculous comment with facts? Have you ever been treated outside the U.S. for any medical procedure? I have received medical treatment in Mexico, Canada and Switzerland. Try going to Canada and telling them their health care is a "disaster".

The U.S. is now ranked 38th by the World Health Organization. So we're not second-rate here, we are waaaaay below second rate.

 

[francoHFW]

The usual Pubcrappe- any lie to protect their ridiculously expensive and cruel scam...

 

[Redfish]

Screw the Affordable Health Care Act. It sucks. It's compromised bullshit.

There's no reason on this planet why we can't have universal healthcare. It's absurd that insurance corporations, whose only duty and responsibility is to create a profit for its shareholders, SHOULD NOT BE DICTATING MY MEDICAL CARE.

The citizens of other First World countries are aghast at our allowing insurance companies to rule our lives. I don't mean government RUN health care, I mean government FUNDED by our tax dollars. Big difference.

Well, there's a good reason why we dont have single payer. I'll let Slobbering Barney tell you about. Oh yeah, that and the fact that it's beena disaster everywhere. Exploding costs and second rate care.

Do you want to back up that ridiculous comment with facts? Have you ever been treated outside the U.S. for any medical procedure? I have received medical treatment in Mexico, Canada and Switzerland. Try going to Canada and telling them their health care is a "disaster".

The U.S. is now ranked 38th by the World Health Organization. So we're not second-rate here, we are waaaaay below second rate.

canadians and brits come here for serious medical needs, where will they go when obama finishes ruining our medical system?

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

Screw the Affordable Health Care Act. It sucks. It's compromised bullshit.

There's no reason on this planet why we can't have universal healthcare. It's absurd that insurance corporations, whose only duty and responsibility is to create a profit for its shareholders, SHOULD NOT BE DICTATING MY MEDICAL CARE.

The citizens of other First World countries are aghast at our allowing insurance companies to rule our lives. I don't mean government RUN health care, I mean government FUNDED by our tax dollars. Big difference.

Fuck you Communist! Ultimately, you and the rest of you douchebags DO mean government run healthcare!

 

[Redfish]

Screw the Affordable Health Care Act. It sucks. It's compromised bullshit.

There's no reason on this planet why we can't have universal healthcare. It's absurd that insurance corporations, whose only duty and responsibility is to create a profit for its shareholders, SHOULD NOT BE DICTATING MY MEDICAL CARE.
The citizens of other First World countries are aghast at our allowing insurance companies to rule our lives. I don't mean government RUN health care, I mean government FUNDED by our tax dollars. Big difference.

But you would be OK with a minimally intelligent GS 9 dictating your healthcare? Are you really that dumb?

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

Screw the Affordable Health Care Act. It sucks. It's compromised bullshit.

There's no reason on this planet why we can't have universal healthcare. It's absurd that insurance corporations, whose only duty and responsibility is to create a profit for its shareholders, SHOULD NOT BE DICTATING MY MEDICAL CARE.
The citizens of other First World countries are aghast at our allowing insurance companies to rule our lives. I don't mean government RUN health care, I mean government FUNDED by our tax dollars. Big difference.

But you would be OK with a minimally intelligent GS 9 dictating your healthcare? Are you really that dumb?

he's a Leftwing Communist loser. What do you expect from a Bolshevik?

 

[bripat9643]

Now that people are going to be able to look for an affordable plan of their choosing with good benefits in a competitive marketplace that protects their rights as consumers and levels the playing field between them and the insurers, this notion (which has historically been true) that if you want good health insurance you need to get it through someone else--an employer or union--is going to start to dissipate.

You actually believe that?!!

Man, it's incredible how gullible some people are.

 

[bripat9643]

Screw the Affordable Health Care Act. It sucks. It's compromised bullshit.

There's no reason on this planet why we can't have universal healthcare. It's absurd that insurance corporations, whose only duty and responsibility is to create a profit for its shareholders, SHOULD NOT BE DICTATING MY MEDICAL CARE.

The citizens of other First World countries are aghast at our allowing insurance companies to rule our lives. I don't mean government RUN health care, I mean government FUNDED by our tax dollars. Big difference.

There's no difference. If government pays all the bills, then it decides what to pay for and how much to pay. That puts in total control of healthcare.

 

[The Rabbi]

Screw the Affordable Health Care Act. It sucks. It's compromised bullshit.

There's no reason on this planet why we can't have universal healthcare. It's absurd that insurance corporations, whose only duty and responsibility is to create a profit for its shareholders, SHOULD NOT BE DICTATING MY MEDICAL CARE.

The citizens of other First World countries are aghast at our allowing insurance companies to rule our lives. I don't mean government RUN health care, I mean government FUNDED by our tax dollars. Big difference.

Well, there's a good reason why we dont have single payer. I'll let Slobbering Barney tell you about. Oh yeah, that and the fact that it's beena disaster everywhere. Exploding costs and second rate care.

Do you want to back up that ridiculous comment with facts? Have you ever been treated outside the U.S. for any medical procedure? I have received medical treatment in Mexico, Canada and Switzerland. Try going to Canada and telling them their health care is a "disaster".

The U.S. is now ranked 38th by the World Health Organization. So we're not second-rate here, we are waaaaay below second rate.

That you got treated for clap in Mexico is not proof of anything other than your stupidity. That the WHO ranks the US something is not proof of anything either.
Britain's system is a disaster with exploding costs and poor treatment. Germany's the same. Mexico I wont even talk about. The whole country is FUBAR.
The US ranks first where it counts--when people get sick our healthcare system delivers timely and first rate treatment.

 

[Greenbeard]

Good Obamacare talking points.

The link I provided tells a different story.

More for you to chew on.

The International Union of Operating Engineers Local 150 of Countryside, Ill., which represents construction workers and insures about 65,000 people, is also examining whether some lower-earning workers would eventually be better off leaving the union-sponsored plan and instead getting federally subsidized insurance.

These links tell exactly the same story I just did. The unions that are now complaining are the ones that feel that their members are going to get an equivalent, or even better, deal shopping for insurance on their own, independent of the union. You explicitly quoted a union saying its members would be "better off" buying their own insurance rather than sticking with the union negotiated plan (you even bolded it!).

That's what I'm saying. By creating opportunities for people to secure good coverage independent of a union, Obamacare does present something of a threat to certain unions (particularly those whose primary utility to their membership lies in negotiating good insurance coverage). Their power over their membership and a--for some, key--benefit of membership in them erodes a little bit when members can get good health benefits without them.

This is a situation that's good for the individuals, but bad for the union itself.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Well, there's a good reason why we dont have single payer. I'll let Slobbering Barney tell you about. Oh yeah, that and the fact that it's beena disaster everywhere. Exploding costs and second rate care.

Do you want to back up that ridiculous comment with facts? Have you ever been treated outside the U.S. for any medical procedure? I have received medical treatment in Mexico, Canada and Switzerland. Try going to Canada and telling them their health care is a "disaster".

The U.S. is now ranked 38th by the World Health Organization. So we're not second-rate here, we are waaaaay below second rate.

canadians and brits come here for serious medical needs, where will they go when obama finishes ruining our medical system?

Probably Costa Rica...like rich Americans will!

 

[usmcstinger]

Screw the Affordable Health Care Act. It sucks. It's compromised bullshit.

There's no reason on this planet why we can't have universal healthcare. It's absurd that insurance corporations, whose only duty and responsibility is to create a profit for its shareholders, SHOULD NOT BE DICTATING MY MEDICAL CARE.

The citizens of other First World countries are aghast at our allowing insurance companies to rule our lives. I don't mean government RUN health care, I mean government FUNDED by our tax dollars. Big difference.

Well, there's a good reason why we dont have single payer. I'll let Slobbering Barney tell you about. Oh yeah, that and the fact that it's beena disaster everywhere. Exploding costs and second rate care.

Do you want to back up that ridiculous comment with facts? Have you ever been treated outside the U.S. for any medical procedure? I have received medical treatment in Mexico, Canada and Switzerland. Try going to Canada and telling them their health care is a "disaster".

The U.S. is now ranked 38th by the World Health Organization. So we're not second-rate here, we are waaaaay below second rate.

I see you do not back up your statements with a viable source. It is more probable than not that you did not do any research

Let's talk about the Canadian Health Care Model.

In 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada heard Dr. Chaouilli’s appeal, and ruled that the Canadian single-payer system led to situations whereby patients suffer and die on government waiting lists, in violation of their rights guaranteed by both the Canadian and the Quebec Charters of Rights and Freedoms. The Supreme Court ruled as unconstitutional the prohibition of a parallel private medical system in addition to the government mandated single-payer system.


In an interview in 2009 by the Los Angeles Times, Dr. Day said, in justifying the proliferation of private clinics, "What we have in Canada is access to a government, state-mandated wait list… You cannot force a citizen in a free and democratic society to simply wait for healthcare, and outlaw their ability to extricate themselves from a wait list."

In the meantime, demand for health care continues to rise, as 10,000 baby boomers become Medicare beneficiaries every day—and will continue to do so for the next 18 years. Emergency rooms continue to be overcrowded, as many people use them to obtain services that would otherwise be given by primary care providers, because they can’t get in for appointments.
The Depressing Future of American Health Care - Reason.com