US politicians should not punish Russian people. Because when the USA invaded Iraq Americans were not punished.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Who do you think I am?

View attachment 924822

Is that someone Obama killed with a drone strike?

 

[sealybobo]

Is that someone Obama killed with a drone strike?

President Obama deserves credit for even acknowledging the existence of the targeted killing program (something his predecessor did not do), and for increasing transparency into the internal processes that purportedly guided the authorization of drone strikes. However, many needed reforms were left undone—in large part because there was zero pressure from congressional members, who, with few exceptions, were the biggest cheerleaders of drone strikes.

Since Mr Trump was elected in 2016, there have been 2,243 drone strikes. The Republican president has also made some of the operations, the ones outside of war zones, more secretive. As a result, things have different today: under Mr Trump, there are more drone strikes - and less transparency.

 

[Dragonlady]

Because Biden supporters are often uneducated and have a short attention span I will put this in the first paragraph. Please keep in mind when the United States invaded Iraq in 2003 … American people were not sanctioned by Russia or the international world. Americans were free to travel where they wanted. They could go to Spain or have a good time in Asia and use their credit card and debit cards.

News Wrap: Biden to impose major sanctions on Russia in response to Navalny's death

In our news wrap Tuesday, President Biden says the U.S. will impose major new sanctions on Russia after Alexei Navalny's death, the U.S. vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, two men are charged with murder for Super Bowl parade shootings in Kansas...

www.pbs.org

The various sanctions that the United States has influenced on Russia has had a dramatic effect on the Russian people.

Along with Belarusians, for example.

For example, a Russian or Belarusian has a difficult time traveling now. And they cannot use their debit or credit cards in foreign countries. They’re blocked.

I was informed of this by a Belarusian here in Cambodia along with some Russians in Thailand. This is disgraceful. As an American hearing them telling me “yeah man we can’t use our credit or debit cards When we travel we have to bring a bunch of cash.”

The Russians and Belarusians are our fellow Christians. These are beautiful people. They also have diverse cultures. There are Jews and Muslims within their ranks. Such wonderful people. Of course they stood tall in World War II on our side.

A lot of our fellow Americans don’t travel anywhere. They’re not aware of the world around them. Whatever they are told by CNN or Fox News is what they believe…..They should explore the world learn about different countries or at least read a book or watch documentaries about the Russian people … that’s actually the liberal way.

Defending Putin’s genocide of the Ukrainian people????

 

[cnm]

Only a sadistic, black-hearted, Anti-Semite, with no respect for international law, or indeed human morals or ethics could support such an inhuman terrorist attack, killing civilian men, women, children and indeed babies.

Or anyone who supported Shock and Awe.

 

[AntonToo]

Because Biden supporters are often uneducated and have a short attention span I will put this in the first paragraph. Please keep in mind when the United States invaded Iraq in 2003 … American people were not sanctioned by Russia or the international world. Americans were free to travel where they wanted. They could go to Spain or have a good time in Asia and use their credit card and debit cards.

News Wrap: Biden to impose major sanctions on Russia in response to Navalny's death

In our news wrap Tuesday, President Biden says the U.S. will impose major new sanctions on Russia after Alexei Navalny's death, the U.S. vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, two men are charged with murder for Super Bowl parade shootings in Kansas...

www.pbs.org

The various sanctions that the United States has influenced on Russia has had a dramatic effect on the Russian people.

Along with Belarusians, for example.

For example, a Russian or Belarusian has a difficult time traveling now. And they cannot use their debit or credit cards in foreign countries. They’re blocked.

I was informed of this by a Belarusian here in Cambodia along with some Russians in Thailand. This is disgraceful. As an American hearing them telling me “yeah man we can’t use our credit or debit cards When we travel we have to bring a bunch of cash.”

The Russians and Belarusians are our fellow Christians. These are beautiful people. They also have diverse cultures. There are Jews and Muslims within their ranks. Such wonderful people. Of course they stood tall in World War II on our side.

A lot of our fellow Americans don’t travel anywhere. They’re not aware of the world around them. Whatever they are told by CNN or Fox News is what they believe…..They should explore the world learn about different countries or at least read a book or watch documentaries about the Russian people … that’s actually the liberal way.

Russia is sanctioned by 50 countries for its invasion and land grabs in Ukraine.

No developed country recognized Russia’s illicit annexations of Ukrainian territories.

Small Russian economy doesn’t produce anything that is not under their feet and has nothing to “sanction” America and its allies with.

 

[ESay]

But some have said that Russia is doing just fine. Their economy is doing good actually. And US involvement in Ukraine is more a negative for us than it is bad for Russia

Then what is the reason of this thread? If Russian economy is fine and the American sanctions have almost zero impact on it, then Russian people aren't 'punished'.

 

[Rigby5]

You have to remember that most of those deaths were caused by Irans proxies. Sure we killed civilians, but we tried not to. War is hell.

Wrong.
Don't you remember that our attack was called "Shock and Awe"?
It was a deliberate attack on the civilian infrastructure, like water, power, food, etc.
In a desert like Iraq, that is fatal.
We forced civilians to resort to drinking from swamps.

There were no deaths from "Irans proxies".
We deliberately targeted civilians.
Like when we wiped out all the civilians in Halabjah.

 

[Rigby5]

Thats isnt true. Israel has the lowest civilian to soldier death ratio in world history in their current war in Gaza. Its a fact that no one seems to recognize.

That is just a lie.
Israel has always deliberately murdered civilians.
It has been that was since they blew up the British peacekeepers in the King David Hotel, in 1948, so that no one could stop them from wiping out hundreds of native villages like Deir Yassin.

 

[Rigby5]

Russia is sanctioned by 50 countries for its invasion and land grabs in Ukraine.

No developed country recognized Russia’s illicit annexations of Ukrainian territories.

Small Russian economy doesn’t produce anything that is not under their feet and has nothing to “sanction” America and its allies with.

Economic sanctions are and always have been totally illegal since the Hague Convention of 1906.

The legal reality is that the Ukraine government in Kyiv committed repeated acts of war, like trying to prevent Russian use of Sevastopol, murdering 30k ethnic Russian natives, trying to join NATO, etc.
But the current Kyiv government is not even legal, since the legal government elected in 2012 was illegally murdered, arrested, or exiled.

Since the Crimea, Donetsk, etc., were traditionally part of Russia and not the Ukraine until Khrushchev the Ukrainian gave them to the Ukraine in 1954, then it is NOT an "illicit annexation".

 

[Rigby5]

Then what is the reason of this thread? If Russian economy is fine and the American sanctions have almost zero impact on it, then Russian people aren't 'punished'.

The point is still that economic sanctions on civilian commerce is totally illegal.

 

[ESay]

The point is still that economic sanctions on civilian commerce is totally illegal.

This illegality is based on what? A sovereign nation can impose any restrictions on other nations or some of their representatives anytime it wants.

 

[Yarddog]

Yes, I understand your point. But we could both acknowledge the similarities and differences.

And we can both acknowledge the USA has intervened or invaded more countries in the 20th century than any other country during that time.

But we can also discuss what if Mexico join some anti-American alliance and they’re right on our border. I mean, there is a very important thing to note here Ukraine was once a part of the Soviet union, so even even if you look at it as a landgrab it’s important to know that because then it opens up the conversation to realizing that it’s perhaps not necessary to call it a land grab, but something that some portion of Ukrainians and Russians want to happen.


He is also important to note that some portion of Iraqi people actually wanted an American intervention in 2003, even if it’s a small portion.

But I enjoy the conversation. It’s thought provoking and I appreciate your points and honesty. Of course look at what the Biden supporters say. They hate freedom of speech. They’re against American values so when they see topics like this, all they can say is

“Russian propaganda”

Other words they’re trying to shut down speech. The attempt to get as many like-minded people together to drown somebody out as a “propagandist.”

Yeah well also remember that at one point the Russians starved over a million Ukraininans to death back around WW2 era.
So I would figure there's also a very large contingent of Ukranians who feel no love for Russia nor want to get together and share bread.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Because Biden supporters are often uneducated and have a short attention span I will put this in the first paragraph. Please keep in mind when the United States invaded Iraq in 2003 … American people were not sanctioned by Russia or the international world. Americans were free to travel where they wanted. They could go to Spain or have a good time in Asia and use their credit card and debit cards.

News Wrap: Biden to impose major sanctions on Russia in response to Navalny's death

In our news wrap Tuesday, President Biden says the U.S. will impose major new sanctions on Russia after Alexei Navalny's death, the U.S. vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, two men are charged with murder for Super Bowl parade shootings in Kansas...

www.pbs.org

The various sanctions that the United States has influenced on Russia has had a dramatic effect on the Russian people.

Along with Belarusians, for example.

For example, a Russian or Belarusian has a difficult time traveling now. And they cannot use their debit or credit cards in foreign countries. They’re blocked.

I was informed of this by a Belarusian here in Cambodia along with some Russians in Thailand. This is disgraceful. As an American hearing them telling me “yeah man we can’t use our credit or debit cards When we travel we have to bring a bunch of cash.”

The Russians and Belarusians are our fellow Christians. These are beautiful people. They also have diverse cultures. There are Jews and Muslims within their ranks. Such wonderful people. Of course they stood tall in World War II on our side.

A lot of our fellow Americans don’t travel anywhere. They’re not aware of the world around them. Whatever they are told by CNN or Fox News is what they believe…..They should explore the world learn about different countries or at least read a book or watch documentaries about the Russian people … that’s actually the liberal way.

But I thought you said you were neutral on Russia, comrade.

That was a lie.

 

[sparky]

And we can both acknowledge the USA has intervened or invaded more countries in the 20th century than any other country during that time.

and as soon as the dust clears on our departure, fall back into depressed despot led states.....

~S~

 

[XponentialChaos]

Luiza disagrees. Luiza is one if the many Russobots here.

Luiza refers to Putin as “Dear Uncle P”.

Luiza and Franklin are both Russobots.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

Then what is the reason of this thread? If Russian economy is fine and the American sanctions have almost zero impact on it, then Russian people aren't 'punished'.

Still a problem that Russian folks have to carry cash with them on vacations they can’t use their debit or credit cards. The American people did not have to experience that issue when we invaded Iraq. So it’s a bad foreign policy by the US power makers.

And there is clearly a big difference now western nations treated the USA in their invasion of Iraq, compared to how those same countries are treating Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Sure there was international criticism of the US invasion of Iraq, but there was no sort of major sanctions from western countries toward the USA in 2003 so it is a clear cut sign of hypocrisy and poor foreign leadership.

If anything, it’s also a symbolic issue. And it’s not the right thing to do because Russia did not invade the USA. They invaded a third-party just like we have done many times.

I think there is many similarities between the Russians and Americans, including their resiliency. This was clearly the case in World War II. That’s why Russias economy is weathering the storm. At least that’s what I’ve heard from Russian people while traveling abroad and they would know because they’re from the country. They say that their prices are fine. People joining their military are buying new apartments and new cars.

But the western media perspective that Russia is this big bad evil country is perhaps laughable it is certainly not the case according to people who live in Russia. It’s kind of an embarrassment that the media does this.


Also, there seems to be a big difference in how the US media covered the two wars. Initially, the US media was very friendly toward the American military, even embedding themselves with US soldiers in the 2003 Iraq war. Perhaps only a portion of the media was critical of the war. As for Russia invading Ukraine for their is no US media embedded with the Russians. They’re mostly in Ukraine Feeding us news from an authoritarian state. Although I did see a few CNN journalist recently in Moscow, which is all the more interesting I mean are they supposed to be not allowed there but here they are in Russia reporting. There was at least one reporter from CNN in Russia recently. But nothing like what they have in Ukraine still.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

Yeah well also remember that at one point the Russians starved over a million Ukraininans to death back around WW2 era.
So I would figure there's also a very large contingent of Ukranians who feel no love for Russia nor want to get together and share bread.

That’s part of the bigger subject of World War II when the US government and the American people stood by the cause of the Russians. There’s a number of Hollywood produced movies and documentaries documenting Russia’s fight in World War II and their liberation of the concentration camps.

I have no interest or support for communism. But I am more interested in the men and women of the USA during the World War II era. During this time, the USA and the Soviets were allies.

In World War II it was a different story of how the American public but more important maybe the American media and government viewed Russians.

Some Have suggested that after World War II there was Nazi infiltration of the history of the Soviet union, and all sorts of lies were created about the Russians.

if people support Israel and they can then be honest and thank the Russians for the heroic courage in World War II to liberate the camps.
many people in Israel today support Russia. There’s over 1 million Russian Jews living in Israel.

This information is easily accessible. Just look up the many Ukrainians of World War II that happily supported the Soviet Union. While some of the Western Ukrainians supported the third Reich, and worked in the concentration camps and fought for the SS.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Economic sanctions are and always have been totally illegal since the Hague Convention of 1906.

The legal reality is that the Ukraine government in Kyiv committed repeated acts of war, like trying to prevent Russian use of Sevastopol, murdering 30k ethnic Russian natives, trying to join NATO, etc.
But the current Kyiv government is not even legal, since the legal government elected in 2012 was illegally murdered, arrested, or exiled.

Since the Crimea, Donetsk, etc., were traditionally part of Russia and not the Ukraine until Khrushchev the Ukrainian gave them to the Ukraine in 1954, then it is NOT an "illicit annexation".

Thosde are not acts of war dumbass

 

[Soupnazi630]

The point is still that economic sanctions on civilian commerce is totally illegal.

No they are not

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.
Don't you remember that our attack was called "Shock and Awe"?
It was a deliberate attack on the civilian infrastructure, like water, power, food, etc.
In a desert like Iraq, that is fatal.
We forced civilians to resort to drinking from swamps.

There were no deaths from "Irans proxies".
We deliberately targeted civilians.
Like when we wiped out all the civilians in Halabjah.

Shockand awe was not targeted on civilains it was directed against military targets.

We wiped out no civialins in Halabjah you dishonest fool.