Utah's Gay Marriage Ban struck down

[bodecea]

In my lifetime we have gone from "honor thy father and mother", to "honor thy father and the guy who is pretending to be your mother". Some call that progress.

Get out and get to know some gay people, especially gay parents, I beg you. Nobody is pretending to be a mother or a father in families with SS parents.

That's the biggest lie of bullshit I've ever heard. I've known several lesbian parents in my time dealing with public schools. In each situation there was a bull dyke officiating as the "father" and a lipstick lesbian who was inexplicably attracted to "him". As seasoned adults we often would discuss out of ear shot of these bizarre "couples" why it is that the lipstick lesbian is attracted to men; how this didn't perk the radar of the bulldyke. None of us could and still cannot explain that blatant cry for help. Imagine how confused their kids were?

True story, and a very poor harbinger for gays claiming their behaviors are innate. One of those lesbian couples had identical twins from the lipstick lesbian having been with men for years before she thought she'd try something new. We knew these twin girls and watched them grow up with the bulldyke/"dad" and the lipstick mom. One of the identical twin girls became a lesbian. The other identical twin girl is straight, married and having kids of her own. Both were rather shy, reclusive and obviously disturbed mentally. Since identical twins grew up to take on different sexual orientations, you need not one more study to know sexual orientation is not innate but is learned. And of course animal studies bear this out to exhaustion. At or near puberty, you can train any species of warm blooded animal to sexually orient to anything under the sun if you use conditioning and pairing of stimuli with sexual release. Two or three times is sufficient to imprint a permanent artificial orientation..

So yes, I've met gay couples and no, they are not anything but role playing dads and moms when one of them is missing the equipment and actual factual status as a real man or woman. Even Rachael Maddow gets her period and has to squat to pee. She has a terrible time hiding those wide female hips under the baggy jeans she's always wearing. She isn't a man. She'll never be a man. No man will ever be a woman and no woman will ever be a man. No matter how much they mutilate their bodies or try to deform themselves. Reality is. Yet gay couples strive their whole lives to un-make reality and this takes a real toll on children raised in these homes.

Bullshit.

 

[bodecea]

Exactly, so the notion that gays should be allowed marriage licenses because they were born that way is a faulty argument. Individuals can be born with engrained proclivities that society does not have to accept.

Which is why no one is making such an ‘argument.’

Same-sex couples have always been eligible to enter into marriage contracts, the issue concerns states refusing to obey the 14th Amendment, where the states lack the authority to refuse issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

In addition to 14th Amendment jurisprudence, the 5th Amendment’s Liberty Clause guarantees each person the right to free expression as an individual, whether one is a homosexual as a consequence of birth or choice is of no matter, the individual retains his equal protection rights in either case.

Fuck the Constitution. I don't really see that as a viable argument. The Constitution is irrelevant today anyways. I oppose gay marriage for other reasons, independent of the Constitution.

There you have it.

 

[kaz]

What question? If the incomplete self-made grouping of "LGBT" will pass as a comprehensive and complete class of deviant sexualists to qualify for the 14th? Or if the 14th's guarantee for protection but not privelege is the question? Or the question if marriage is a guarantee or a privelege needing qualifiers, like a driver's license?

Begging the question means that she was assuming the truth of her own position in her argument, it's a logical fallacy.

I have no issue with gays, my issue is with leftists and with government. I don't see any possible way that gay sex between two consenting adults affects me or is in any way bad. I was born straight, they were born gay. Why should someone force themselves to spend their lives unhappily in a straight relationship when there is a consenting gay who wants to be with them? On the other hand, don't think they need government to validate them or give them party favors like seawytch demands. Leftists are divisive and government is discriminatory, that is what I oppose.

Don't you mean "don't think they need government to validate them or give them party favors like I get"

Here's the world's smallest violin and it's playing just for you...



And yes, you keep mentioning that gay marriage is isn't equal to straight yet because you oppose my giving my wife her way on anything even if it's far more important to her than me. I got it already. Straight marriage doesn't work that way, we often give in to our partners. We don't have to always win. I don't even know why you want that. In the end, you get so much more our way. Try it sometime.

 

[bodecea]

You said the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia is that one is a crime one isn't. that is not the case, both are crimes in certain countries. So that is a stupid comparison.



By the way, did you know the initial gay rights platform in 1972 called for the removal of age of consent laws? Look it up.

Consent, look it up.

I know what consent means. Initially, removing age of consent laws was part of the agenda of the homosexual lobby. They supported legalizing pedophilia.

Bullshit.

 

[bodecea]

Its not unconstitutional. Every person had a chance to vote for it including faggots. It passed.Now some activist scum bag judge of course appointed by Obama overturns the will of the people. Its time for open revolt. Plain and simple.Guillotine time.

Tough talk.

 

[bodecea]

This is a lie: "but there is no one willing to perform the marriage ceremony."

More than 150 were performed late Friday afternoon and more are being done today.

Katzndogz lied? Say it isn't so!

 

[JakeStarkey]

This is a lie: "but there is no one willing to perform the marriage ceremony."

More than 150 were performed late Friday afternoon and more are being done today.

Then gays can line up behind whichever few are willing. And those who are willing, like everyone else, will face whatever public judgment the public decides to administer. As the gay gestapo is so happy to say, there's the court and the court of public opinion.

There is only a far right reactionary social con gestapo that is pointing fingers.

The court of public opinion, even among very active LDS, is that "we disagree but we are glad they are happy."

 

[Katzndogz]

No one knows what's going to happen with this kind of law in a state like Utah. Those who bend and perform same sex marriages could find themselves subject to a whole other set of ostracism. Just because a judge said this is the law doesn't mean that people aren't going to find their own ways of following or avoiding it.

Not even a judge can compel someone to make nice.

 

[kaz]

I don't see any possible way that gay sex between two consenting adults affects me or is in any way bad. I was born straight, they were born gay. Why should someone force themselves to spend their lives unhappily in a straight relationship when there is a consenting gay who wants to be with them? On the other hand, don't think they need government to validate them or give them party favors like seawytch demands. Leftists are divisive and government is discriminatory, that is what I oppose.

The jury is leaning heavily on gay being an acquired behavior. We know we can teach permanent artificial sexual orientations to all other warm blooded species. Why would homo sapiens be the singular exception to the rule? And of the identical twin girls I knew raised by a lesbian pair. One grew up to become lesbian. The other grew up to become hetero and is happily married to a man and having kids. Then there's Anne Heche.

It isn't a question of whether or not mainstreaming gay behaviors affects YOU as YOU are already well grounded in your orientation. It's how it affects kids who are still experimenting with their sexuality. Particularly alarming is the sharp rise in HIV/AIDS cases in boys ages 13-29 just since the new gay-marriage-media blitz has started. This lines up perfectly with what we already know about all other warm blooded species: that artificial sexual orientation can be learned and fixated to anything under the sun other than a reproductive partner.

Here's an article that discusses how sexual preference is affected even in animals by social cues instead of innate instructions. Homo sapiens is the paramount example in the animal kingdom of a species that learns and fixates from social cues:

Conditioning and Sexual Behavior: A Review

http://www.pphp.concordia.ca/fac/pfaus/Pfaus-Kippin-Centeno(2001).pdf

Teaching kids through the vehicle of marriage that homosexuality & particularly the anal sex that is part and parcel of it on the male side of the coin, is a very potent and deadly social cue to be flaunting in front of them...as they line up to try out the new fad and march in a sharp upswing in numbers to an early and horrible grave.

I have no firm belief on the environment versus genes. However, for the sake of argument, even if gay is something that is environmental, there is no evidence that it's actually gay people who cause gayness, it could be their relationship with their parents, how much broccoli they eat or any other factor. In fact because it emerges at such an early age, it seems rather doubtful that even if it is acquired by the environment that seeing gayness is the environmental factor that causes gayness. They are so young when it emerges, they don't really grasp sexuality yet.

There may not be a "gay gene," but clearly genes do set up gays to be gay. I'm struggling still with why it's an issue if they are gay as long as they don't demand tribute and worship for it. To me being left alone from government means they stay the hell away from me, which is what I want. To seawytch, it means they pat her on the back, tell her it's OK, she's as important as anyone else, then they reach into other people's pockets and give her wads of money.

 

[Katzndogz]

This is a lie: "but there is no one willing to perform the marriage ceremony."

More than 150 were performed late Friday afternoon and more are being done today.

Katzndogz lied? Say it isn't so!

I didn't lie, I was wrong because of the overwhelming number of people who are refusing to perform those marriages. There are some who are willing and they will have their own punishments to endure.

 

[bodecea]

No one knows what's going to happen with this kind of law in a state like Utah. Those who bend and perform same sex marriages could find themselves subject to a whole other set of ostracism. Just because a judge said this is the law doesn't mean that people aren't going to find their own ways of following or avoiding it.

Not even a judge can compel someone to make nice.

No one has to make nice. Some people still don't make nice with interracial couples. Some people still don't make nice with interfaith couples.

 

[Katzndogz]

No one knows what's going to happen with this kind of law in a state like Utah. Those who bend and perform same sex marriages could find themselves subject to a whole other set of ostracism. Just because a judge said this is the law doesn't mean that people aren't going to find their own ways of following or avoiding it.

Not even a judge can compel someone to make nice.

No one has to make nice. Some people still don't make nice with interracial couples. Some people still don't make nice with interfaith couples.

True acceptance isn't as easy to get as you thought it was is it? The civil rights act didn't end racism. Some would say there's more racism today than there was in 1965. The best gays can hope for is the same result, a superficial and nominal legal acceptance and an underlying social rejection. It might be somewhat worse for gays since being black is not sinful, being gay is.

 

[Iceman]

Age of consent laws have only gone up in the United States. And, no, gays in a majority do no support lowering age of consent laws. Keep up the homophobic hyperbole though...it only helps the marriage equality side.

Just because they weren't effective at removing such laws and dropped these positions as they gained more mainstream traction, doesn't mean they didn't hold those views initially. As late as the 70s, pedophile rights and homosexual rights were one in the same politically.

Only in the minds of the perverted far right reactionaries.

No, this is according to the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention in 1972.

"7. Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent."
The 1972 Gay Rights Platform Platform created at the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention held in Chicago in 1972

 

[JakeStarkey]

Just because they weren't effective at removing such laws and dropped these positions as they gained more mainstream traction, doesn't mean they didn't hold those views initially. As late as the 70s, pedophile rights and homosexual rights were one in the same politically.

Only in the minds of the perverted far right reactionaries.

No, this is according to the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention in 1972.

"7. Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent."
The 1972 Gay Rights Platform Platform created at the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention held in Chicago in 1972

41 years ago? Live in the past much? Do you still quote figures out of context on the Civil Rights and Voting acts?

Grow up.

 

[Asclepias]

No one knows what's going to happen with this kind of law in a state like Utah. Those who bend and perform same sex marriages could find themselves subject to a whole other set of ostracism. Just because a judge said this is the law doesn't mean that people aren't going to find their own ways of following or avoiding it.

Not even a judge can compel someone to make nice.

No one has to make nice. Some people still don't make nice with interracial couples. Some people still don't make nice with interfaith couples.

True acceptance isn't as easy to get as you thought it was is it? The civil rights act didn't end racism. Some would say there's more racism today than there was in 1965. The best gays can hope for is the same result, a superficial and nominal legal acceptance and an underlying social rejection. It might be somewhat worse for gays since being black is not sinful, being gay is.

The good thing about legally making it a crime to discriminate is that you can hurt the idiot doing the discriminating in the pocketbook. Eventually, the social norm becomes acceptance. Thats why no one really cares about mixed couples anymore. Soon it will be that way for gay people as well. Its called gradualism.

 

[Iceman]

Only in the minds of the perverted far right reactionaries.

No, this is according to the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention in 1972.

"7. Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent."
The 1972 Gay Rights Platform Platform created at the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention held in Chicago in 1972

41 years ago? Live in the past much? Do you still quote figures out of context on the Civil Rights and Voting acts?

Grow up.

So you admit the homosexual lobby used to advocate for the legalization of pedophilia?

Good to know.

 

[Katzndogz]

No, this is according to the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention in 1972.

"7. Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent."
The 1972 Gay Rights Platform Platform created at the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention held in Chicago in 1972

41 years ago? Live in the past much? Do you still quote figures out of context on the Civil Rights and Voting acts?

Grow up.

So you admit the homosexual lobby used to advocate for the legalization of pedophilia?

Good to know.

Has that every been changed? Disavowed? No. It's still in effect.

 

[Silhouette]

Only in the minds of the perverted far right reactionaries.

No, this is according to the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention in 1972.

"7. Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent."
The 1972 Gay Rights Platform Platform created at the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention held in Chicago in 1972

41 years ago? Live in the past much? Do you still quote figures out of context on the Civil Rights and Voting acts?

Grow up.

A law requiring children to celebrate the known and admitted pedophile Harvey Milk was just past a couple years ago and is being enforced year after year in late May in California. This isn't the distant past. And when I bring up this atrocity, gays jump in to defend Milk with rabid ferocity. He sodomized a minor teen boy and many other at-risk teen boys one after the other and discarded them when the meat became too old. Two of these boys later committed suicide.

This isn't the ancient past. This is the gay movement of today. Have a look:

SB 572, Leno. Harvey Milk Day: official designation.
SECTION 1.
The Legislature hereby finds and declares the following:
(a) Harvey Bernard Milk was born on May 22, 1930, in Woodmere, New York. He was the first openly gay man to be elected to public office in a major city of the United States. He was assassinated in 1978 at San Francisco’s City Hall by a political rival. Perhaps more than any other modern figure, Harvey Milk’s life and political career embody the rise of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) civil rights movement in California, across the nation, and throughout the world.... Bill Text - SB-572 Harvey Milk Day: official designation.

Harvey Bernard Milk, according to his biography, had a "penchant for young waifs with substance abuse problems" and more:

"...sixteen-year-old McKinley was looking for some kind of father figure...At 33, Milk was launching a new life, though he could hardly have imagined the unlikely direction toward which his new lover would pull him." (pages 30-31)

"It would be to boyish-looking men in their late teens and early 20's that Milk would be attracted for the rest of his life." (page 24)

"Harvey always had a penchant for young waifs with substance abuse problems." (page 180)

"Harvey confided one night that at twenty-four, Doug was the oldest man Harvey had ever started an affair with." (page 237)..

“…sixteen-year-old old McKinley was
looking for some kind of father figure…within a few weeks, McKinley moved
into Harvey Milk’s Upper West Side apartment…and settled into a middleclass
domestic marriage..

Coldly agreed with a former lover’s suicide threat
“…the phone rang. As soon as Harvey heard the voice, he rolled his eyes
impatiently at Jim. ‘It’s Jack McKinley,’ he said. He paused and listened
further. ‘He says he’s going to kill himself.’…‘Tell him not to make a mess,’
Harvey deadpanned. Jack hung up.” (Source: Randy Shilts, The Mayor of
Castro Street, p. 126)

As we speak they are printing commemorative postage stamps to honor his accomplishments. The only thing he "accomplished" out of the ordinary was to announce he was gay, secure a public office out of San Francisco [shocker!] and unapologetically prey on young boys to sodomize. Those are his sum total of "notable" accomplishments.

In essence, what gays celebrate in Harvey Milk and require children to celebrate as well is that he was a promiscuous gay man who liked 'em young and vulnerable and decided to flaunt that to the world and flip the world the middle finger by using a public office to do so. This theme is being repeated all across the country as we sit here debating this...well, "across the nation and the world" actually. The loonies have escaped and are running the mental ward.

 

[JakeStarkey]

This is a lie: "but there is no one willing to perform the marriage ceremony."

More than 150 were performed late Friday afternoon and more are being done today.

Then gays can line up behind whichever few are willing. And those who are willing, like everyone else, will face whatever public judgment the public decides to administer. As the gay gestapo is so happy to say, there's the court and the court of public opinion.

There is only a far right reactionary social con gestapo that is pointing fingers.

The court of public opinion, even among very active LDS, is that "we disagree but we are glad they are happy."

The judge, as I predicted, told the guv's attorneys "why are you asking for a stay on the same grounds I overruled on Friday. Denied."

Marriages will continue.

And the far right perverts will talk about polygamy, bestiality, pedophilia, and MMs.

I bet the ruling will not be overturned and the age of consent not lowered.

 

[Iceman]

Polygamy isn't sick, historically speaking, polygamy has been around since the dawn of time. Homosexual Marriage is an invention of modern society.

No reason to oppose polygamy at this point. If you can marry someone of the same sex, why shouldn't you be able to marry and commit to multiple partners?