Washing machines/dryers prices up 17% under Trump (thank you, tariffs)

[Ray From Cleveland]

We need the EU, Canada, Mexico, and the TPP countries.

More than they need us? I don't think so.

Last week I made a delivery to one of our customers we have been servicing for several years. The shipper told me I was not allowed to wait in my truck while getting loaded any longer; I must wait inside.

Slightly insulted at his hint I am not to be trusted in my truck while being loaded, he felt compelled to explain: he stated they got a huge new customer, and their new customer created guidelines for their shipping department. Regardless whether the shipper was dealing with their goods or not, they insisted that all drivers must be out of their trucks while loading or unloading.

We had another customer do a similar thing. They too created guidelines as to how the shipping department conduct their business whether the trucks are involved with their freight or not, and the company caved in.

I thought to myself, regardless how much business they gave me, I would tell them to F off. Certainly I could enforce guidelines on their freight or freight carriers, but not tell me how to run my shipping department for all.

It doesn't work that way unfortunately. Our second customer I mentioned makes us stop at the gate, tell them the order number and trailer, makes us come inside to sign a login sheet, and forces us to wait inside or drop the trailer while getting loaded or unloaded, all because Walmart made the rules.

The point I'm trying to make is this: your largest customers have a lot of leverage. The US is the largest customer of many of our trading partners. Sure, they will respond harshly to our tariffs, but given time, they will likely see a huge loss in exports and perhaps finally cave in.

 

[Flopper]

We need the EU, Canada, Mexico, and the TPP countries.

More than they need us? I don't think so.

Last week I made a delivery to one of our customers we have been servicing for several years. The shipper told me I was not allowed to wait in my truck while getting loaded any longer; I must wait inside.

Slightly insulted at his hint I am not to be trusted in my truck while being loaded, he felt compelled to explain: he stated they got a huge new customer, and their new customer created guidelines for their shipping department. Regardless whether the shipper was dealing with their goods or not, they insisted that all drivers must be out of their trucks while loading or unloading.

We had another customer do a similar thing. They too created guidelines as to how the shipping department conduct their business whether the trucks are involved with their freight or not, and the company caved in.

I thought to myself, regardless how much business they gave me, I would tell them to F off. Certainly I could enforce guidelines on their freight or freight carriers, but not tell me how to run my shipping department for all.

It doesn't work that way unfortunately. Our second customer I mentioned makes us stop at the gate, tell them the order number and trailer, makes us come inside to sign a login sheet, and forces us to wait inside or drop the trailer while getting loaded or unloaded, all because Walmart made the rules.

The point I'm trying to make is this: your largest customers have a lot of leverage. The US is the largest customer of many of our trading partners. Sure, they will respond harshly to our tariffs, but given time, they will likely see a huge loss in exports and perhaps finally cave in.

I think you grabbed my quote out of context to make your point. My point was that we need other nations in a trade agreement in order to deal with China. Simply saying we don't like this game so weren't not gonna play does nothing but cede leadership in world trade to China. If we do that, we loose.

 

[JBond]

Washington compost is pathetic. The cost of washing machines increased a little? That's the thing we all should be worried about? LOL

That's not a little. When was the last time it increased that much?

The leftists are bitching about washing machine pricing? You idiots doubled the cost of healthcare coverage. Leftists are retarded.

 

[Picaro]

It's contract work. If you ever picked up any Crane's business papers, you would see sections of CEO's who get new jobs all the time. The only reason one gets a new job is because something happened to the last one--usually something not very good.

Some CEO's do fail, but if they have a five year contract, what is the company supposed to do about it?

It's just like if a famous actress makes a bad movie. Her last parts drew millions into the movie theaters, but this one was a flop. She still gets her 10 million (or whatever agreed on) for doing the movie. Same holds true of a star pitcher, a famous country or rock band, or even a quarterback.

If she continues to make bad movies, the price of her services go down--way down.

I have not seen such accountability.


I've seen fools pass the buck and other fools nod their heads like brain damaged parrots.

The larger the organization and the easier it is to make money without producing an actual product, the easier it is to get away with nonsense.
One thing the ACA did was to make medicine very lucrative.
Yes, the first 3 years where physicians had to upgrade their offices and bring their case management up to date was a nightmare.

If you believe what you said is a good thing, then you can't complain about the cost of health care.

What large organization would you claim, does not produce a product or service, and yet makes tons of money easily, over a long period of time. Note, you can't cite a company with ties to the government.

For example, you can't cite ethanol, where the government mandates the use of ethanol. That's not a free-market system.

Financial Institutions are a joke; they ignore regulations left and right because they never pay the price.
7 CEOs and 0 Directors paid the price for the 2008 crash.

Well... the problem there is that government itself pushed for Sub-prime loans. Obama specifically, sued banks to force them to make sub-prime loans. Bill Clinton's Andrew Cuomo actually bragged about forcing banks to make sub-prime loans, and even admitted that these loans would have a higher default rate, which of course was true.

So claiming the banks should go to prison, because they were doing exactly what the government wanted, is a little hypocritical.

You do realize that out of all the financial institutions that failed, the most expensive bailout of the entire sub-prime crash..... was Freddie and Fannie. The government run corporations.

Additionally, I think it would be difficult to claim that these financial institutions produce nothing of value, given how many people use them routinely. 25 million use Bank of America, on a daily basis.

They must be doing something right.

the problem was Goldman Sachs putting together tranches of mortgages and then having them rated at higher ratings than they were actually worth, such as S &P rating them at AAA when at best the overall rating should have been a CCC- or something. The fake high ratings allowed institutional buyers who were restricted to what kinds of paper they could invest in to get stuck with a lot of bad paper on their books, or with paper they couldn't tell was bad or not and nobody else could, either.Trying to sort out the bad paper from the good paper became impossible, especially with firms like Countrywide running around generating billions in bad notes.

Fanny and Freddy didn't fall first, it was the big Swiss Euro bank, UBS or something, that stopped buying the American paper, setting off a drying up of market liquidity dominos falling. In the U.S the collapse of Thornburg Mortgage set off the collapse here; they only handled high end mortgages, with a default rate of .001 or so, high quality stuff. Suddenly literally overnight the other big boys quit buying each other's paper and AIG quit insuring the short term markets, Thornburg found itself short of cash to meet its paper, and the markets themselves found themselves all across the board facing the 'mark to market' rule, and Thornburg found itself facing massive margin calls, as did many other loan originators. Nobody could sort out where the bad paper was, who had it and how much because of the way it was sold. there was some $300 billion plus of it, and nobody knew where it was, thanks to Goldman's new invention.

You can deflect all you want, but it was the private companies that caused the problem, they wrote the bad paper, the ratings agencies deliberately lied about the quality of the paper, the big boys deliberately hid it in haystacks and made it impossible to trace in their packages. nobody forced Countrywide or anybody else to make bad loans to the degree the 'private markets did. The irony is the primary inventor and major peddler of the mixed paper, Goldman, figured out the risk level and covered their own asses before the market collapsed, and made out like bandits during the big bailout. they should have been sent to prison.

 

[Picaro]

I disagree- not all government clinics are trashy. Just take the VA- lots of bad service, but there are cities and states where the Vets have heard thru the grapevine the VA there is better and then lots of them relocate to that VA place. In addition, some clinics connected to the government that serve poor and homeless people or seniors are actually quite good. Many private medical places are excellent, yet some are not.

It seems the quality is all over the place; I have a friend with cancers and other health issues and he gets great service and care, goes to the Nashville VA, and my Texas friends using them are happy, too. And then you have the whining clowns in the Cadillacs who cry and snivel if they have to wait 20 minutes.

NY and LI have great health care.
If Health Care is a concern you have to be near a major city where physicians want to live.

Prety much, yes. you're not going to find world class neurosurgeons in WindBlow, Nv., pop. 32

 

[Picaro]

As ShockedCanadian has noted several times, China sends it's steel to other countries and they in turn send it to us making it look as though we're not getting totally screwed.

I told some guy about that the other day (and I know of it firsthand) and he called me a liar.[/QUOTE]

Quoted for truth. And Mexico is happy to do it for them, too.

 

[Picaro]

Wanna buy laundry equipment for your home? Good luck paying more than you used to, thanks to Donald J. Trump and his tariffs.
In this thread, we will come up with ideas as to how to lower said prices again:
Opinion | Trump’s tariffs are already backfiring

I'll pay the same price I always pay: No more than $120 apiece. Every 10 years or so.

These insane Liberals are talking like they make the same major purchase every year.
Who knows what the hell they're doing with their appliances.

I'm sure a lot of people have no respect for their own stuff and tear it up a long before it would go bad on its own. I get 20-30 years out of decent built appliances. I get new stuff because usually they don't make parts for the old stuff any more. I've got a 2001 Dodge PU, an '84 Olds cutlass Supreme, and an 2005 Jeep Cherokee you can't see the oil on the dipstick when you check them without holding at different angles to catch the light right. Other stuff has worn out and needed replacing, of course, seat covers, etc., some of the door handles, brakes, water pumps, rear axles, etc., etc., but no motors or trannies; I take care of stuff I spend my money on. That more than pays for itself even with the amount spent on maintenance is a lot comparatively. I will buy maybe one more vehicle in my life, maybe a BMW van.

 

[Picaro]

median family income is allegedly '50 Something K'. Minimum wage adjusted for real inflation would be a minimum of $17.65 an hour, or $36,712 a year full time all year round job.. So, a wife and hubby both working would make household income $73,424 a year, so '59 K a year' isn't even up to two full time minimum wage jobs. Whoopity do. And that is gross, not take home, so deduct Fed and state on other payroll taxes, and you have crap for ,median incomes.

Using the Gold Standard, a more realistic model, you need $27 an hour minimum wage to match inflation since 1972 or so, with the Viet Nam inflation cycle already factored into the calculations.

No, that is false.

The minimum wage, adjusted for inflation would be $4.43.

Further, any citation of any dollar amount adjusted for inflation, can't use the early 70s as a base. The Nixion shock caused a crash of values. You can't use a clearly messed up basis, to try and claim what values should be. That's insane.

No, that's pretty close to the differences in buying power. I realize the business press as well as every Party in power since the 1970's has a desperate need to lie about the real inflation rates, as people would be a lot angrier if they knew the real truth about how far the buying power of working people has dropped. It's a lot more politically viable to pretend it didn't happen.

The Peanut Gallery should use the calculators that shadowstats.com and SeekingAlpha use; they're much closer to the one banks, especially foreign banks use when analyzing the U.S. economy, and others use than the ridiculously fake ones the Fed has for the unwashed, some of which use the price of PCs for some odd reason as if that is worth 30%or some similarly ridiculous amount of average household costs, I guess because the dramatic price falls of those make inflation nearly non-existent to idiots who can't do arithmetic or have troubling things like memories.

This one for instance claims something that cost $10 in 1971 would only cost $62.12 in 2018, 521%, instead of a more representative $110 or so. Also there is the fact that inflation has a far more dramatic effect on low incomes than those of the top 1%'ers. A 30% increase in the price of food really hits those with incomes in the $20K range a hell of a lot harder than somebody whoe income is $10 million, who wouldn't even notice such an increase.

 

[Picaro]

Better economists than whoever taught your class. How long ago was this?

The US economy is all smoke and mirrors.

Huh? Wuh? Yeah, it's all a myth.... all that wealth we're creating, that other countries are not.... which is why no country wants to be in the US market...... you know.... except for all of them. They can clearly see the smoke and mirrors they want.

Then why do over 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour?
I was on Wall Street in the early 80s.
Reagan started fixing the economy to exclude minorities.
Now we have an albatross around our necks...a very expensive albatross.

I am hoping Trump's vision of bringing jobs and opportunities back to the US pays off.

Saint Ronald's worst policies was to ignore anti-trust restrictions and allow concentrations of industry to oligarchic and monopolistic levels not seen since the Gilded age of trusts, and this process is still going on. We've never had such a concentration of wealth in our history, and it has killed off small and mid-sized businesses and social mobility, and the sources of training for managerial and organizational talent.

Ronald Reagan proved that Wall Street works on cocaine.

And strippers and hookers. The Wolf Of Wall Street was indeed an accurate description of Wall Street.

 

[jc456]

There goes that tiny tax break ya got! Higher gas prices, higher prices on other consumer goods, higher health care costs. Yup, Trump is sure for the little guy!

still got it. 200 a check. every pay period. Nothing got taken from me. BTW, that's 400 a month. One can purchase a new car for around that much. And, even if car prices went up because of steel tariffs, I'd still get a loan and it would cost around 400 a month. so actually, nothing changed. so you and all discussing such nonsense are just talking nonsense. See what i did?

 

[jc456]

There goes that tiny tax break ya got! Higher gas prices, higher prices on other consumer goods, higher health care costs. Yup, Trump is sure for the little guy!

how you figure? you must be smoking something.

You don't seem able to understand. Probably just too stupid

I understand a lot. I understand you have nothing. Since you provided nothing. simple deduction.

 

[jc456]

Cash payments are common now, where have you been?

Wisconsin Senate approves $3 billion cash payment for Foxconn factory

The Wisconsin Senate approved nearly $3 billion in cash payments for Foxconn Technology Group on Tuesday.

It's hardly what I call welfare. The state is going to give them 3 billion over 15 years to get back 13,000 jobs that employees will be paying taxes on, and get a 10 billion dollar return on top of that.

There is a difference between welfare and investment.

It is giving them cash like i said. But you think government is good at this? Should they run the whole economy? Foxconn will probably be long gone before WI benefits.

Wisconsin wouldn't break even on Foxconn incentives for 25 years, analysis shows

If they weren't going to benefit they wouldn't be doing it. Forget about that leftist analysis.

hahaha. You think government can make a decision like that? Are you saying there is no government waste? That is too funny Ray! Sounds like your the lefty to me!

Why would they give money away to a company that wouldn't benefit their city? Did you bother to read your own article? To me this sounds like a huge advancement for their city. 1,300 (maybe more) is a lot of jobs and a lot of taxpayer contributions to the city, state and feds.

that someone laughed at this post is in itself hilarious. Ray, spot on dude.

 

[jc456]

Yep, before DumBama, during DumBama, and after DumBama.

So how is it all Obama's fault then!

I never said it was. But he sure didn't help any.

Actually he slowed it a bit not lots but a bit!

If they weren't going to benefit they wouldn't be doing it. Forget about that leftist analysis.

I bet solyndra was a good investment to you right?

I guess you don't understand the difference between giving taxpayer money to cronies that support your political agenda and an investment in your city that benefits everybody.

Choosing to give billions to a foreign company is cronyism. Sorry, but why else do you think they picked foxconn instead of any number of other companies? Sorry, but your faith in government picking winners and losers makes you a liberal.

Who's picking winners and losers? And what is crony about attracting businesses to your city or state?

If I lived in a city and my reps passed up such an opportunity, I would vote them out next election.

The government is picking winners and losers, are you really this dense? How does one company get picked over another? Isn't it a big advantage over competitors when you get huge amounts of government money?

they pick companies that give out jobs that increase the number of tax payers, which then helps subsidize services for the city and state. If you don't know this, then you friend are a lost soul.

 

[jc456]

Who's picking winners and losers? And what is crony about attracting businesses to your city or state?

If I lived in a city and my reps passed up such an opportunity, I would vote them out next election.

The government is picking winners and losers, are you really this dense? How does one company get picked over another? Isn't it a big advantage over competitors when you get huge amounts of government money?

So how many other companies gave that city a similar offer?

The offer was from the city. They offered to give them tax dollars. You realize the population is only 26,000? So most the employees will come from out of the village. They are also very close to Illinois, so employees may come from there too. And you do realize they are kicking people out of their homes for this project? You really are a big goverment guy, the right is so funny.

Do you realize that money earned (by anybody) in your city has to pay city taxes? Do you know what additional businesses may open up like restaurants, stores and perhaps hotels?

What tax is that Ray? Are you sure they have it in WI?

We are talking 3 billion, and you are talking a few restaurants and hotels that pay workers poorly?

They are kicking people out of their homes and you support that. Your are a big government liberal!

huh?

 

[jc456]

Let's see, 3, billion......10 billion. I don't know about new math, but to my knowledge, 10 billion is more than 3 billion.

Yes, but were does that 10 billion go? Not back to the state. Much of that will probably go out of state or even out of country given they are a foreign company. WI is guaranteed nothing.

I see. Would you like me to go back and quote your article?

Please do. You realize they are only starting with 3,000 employees right? For 3 billion...

Gladly:

Foxconn plans to invest as much as $10 billion to build a flat-screen production factory in Wisconsin that initially would have a workforce of 3,000 but the company said that could grow to 13,000.

Under the bill, Foxconn would receive $2.85 billion in cash payments over 15 years if it invests $10 billion in the state and employs 13,000 people. It could also qualify for $150 million in sales tax exemptions for construction equipment.

Foxconn is the largest contract maker of electronics, best known for making iPhones, but with a long list of customers including Sony Corp., Dell Inc. and BlackBerry Ltd.

Foxconn would be allowed to build in wetland and waterways and construct its 20-million-square-foot campus without first doing an environmental impact statement.

If it's one thing I didn't see in this article, it was an property tax abatement (which most cities and states use to attract businesses). Now I don't know how large a 20 million square foot campus is, but it certainly sounds huge and expensive when it comes to property taxes which goes to support cities and schools.

They won't be paying property taxes. And as you can see it says as much as $10 billion. That could be $1 million. There are no guarantees. And its only 3000 workforce for 3 billion. You have to be a real dumbass to think that is a good investment...

your reading skills ain't so good. here let me highlight the piece you obviously missed, since you miss quoted it.

here:
Foxconn would receive $2.85 billion in cash payments over 15 years if it invests $10 billion in the state and employs 13,000 people
not And as you can see it says as much as $10 billion

Son you're lost. It says If it invests 10 billion and employs 13,000 people. In other words, If they don't comply to those two conditions, they don't get no stinken 2.85 Billion in cash payments.

 

[jc456]

Face Liberal reality...As long as someone with an R next to their name does something it's evil.

Your a big supporter of giving tax dollars to corporations too eh?

I'm a big supporter of keeping jobs in America.
You know what I have?
A house.
And a mortgage.
I owe the bank more than I borrowed.
Get it?

Of course not.

So then how do you support spending 7 million in tax dollars and still losing jobs? We can lose jobs for free...

Because I don't expect to see anything happening in one day.
Liberals have itchy crotches When an R does anything.
And I don't see Trump running around, like Obama and GW did, offering incentives left and right.
If and when Trump feels he got screwed, he'll let everyone know it.

On the other hand, you seem to get off on the billions we lose to China and India every year.
When you can flowchart how selling our souls to China makes sense, get back to me.

Trump taxing us more isn't going to change that... Tariffs have been used many times, and they just cost us jobs.

then how do other countries succeed against tariffing our products?

 

[jc456]

The Koch brothers get it.

Koch brothers plan to spend millions to fight Trump tariffs

I don't see anywhere in that article what their alternative is to ending tariffs in Europe and China against us. hmmmm. How come?

 

[jc456]

I see. Would you like me to go back and quote your article?

Please do. You realize they are only starting with 3,000 employees right? For 3 billion...

Gladly:

Foxconn plans to invest as much as $10 billion to build a flat-screen production factory in Wisconsin that initially would have a workforce of 3,000 but the company said that could grow to 13,000.

Under the bill, Foxconn would receive $2.85 billion in cash payments over 15 years if it invests $10 billion in the state and employs 13,000 people. It could also qualify for $150 million in sales tax exemptions for construction equipment.

Foxconn is the largest contract maker of electronics, best known for making iPhones, but with a long list of customers including Sony Corp., Dell Inc. and BlackBerry Ltd.

Foxconn would be allowed to build in wetland and waterways and construct its 20-million-square-foot campus without first doing an environmental impact statement.

If it's one thing I didn't see in this article, it was an property tax abatement (which most cities and states use to attract businesses). Now I don't know how large a 20 million square foot campus is, but it certainly sounds huge and expensive when it comes to property taxes which goes to support cities and schools.

They won't be paying property taxes. And as you can see it says as much as $10 billion. That could be $1 million. There are no guarantees. And its only 3000 workforce for 3 billion. You have to be a real dumbass to think that is a good investment...

Comprehension problems I see. Why don't you go back to your article to fully understand what it said?

I am quite aware of what it said.

or not.

 

[jc456]

Please do. You realize they are only starting with 3,000 employees right? For 3 billion...

Gladly:

Foxconn plans to invest as much as $10 billion to build a flat-screen production factory in Wisconsin that initially would have a workforce of 3,000 but the company said that could grow to 13,000.

Under the bill, Foxconn would receive $2.85 billion in cash payments over 15 years if it invests $10 billion in the state and employs 13,000 people. It could also qualify for $150 million in sales tax exemptions for construction equipment.

Foxconn is the largest contract maker of electronics, best known for making iPhones, but with a long list of customers including Sony Corp., Dell Inc. and BlackBerry Ltd.

Foxconn would be allowed to build in wetland and waterways and construct its 20-million-square-foot campus without first doing an environmental impact statement.

If it's one thing I didn't see in this article, it was an property tax abatement (which most cities and states use to attract businesses). Now I don't know how large a 20 million square foot campus is, but it certainly sounds huge and expensive when it comes to property taxes which goes to support cities and schools.

They won't be paying property taxes. And as you can see it says as much as $10 billion. That could be $1 million. There are no guarantees. And its only 3000 workforce for 3 billion. You have to be a real dumbass to think that is a good investment...

Comprehension problems I see. Why don't you go back to your article to fully understand what it said?

Even neo-Cons don't get it through their heads that American employment is good.
All they care about is gains on investment.

Tariffs have always lost jobs. It seems you don't support American employment.

name somewhere jobs were lost due to tariffs today. and don't say HD. they were leaving before them.

 

[jc456]

The cost of container shipping is more than the cost of many products.

REally? Cause I've seen very cheap products from far, far away.

Made with really cheap labor. We don't have that advantage here. But there are certain products that aren't imported like paper. Even with cheap labor the value of a container of paper is not enough to be imported as the container costs are too high.

I thought robots were replacing everyone. Do Chinese robots work cheaper than American robots?

Less robots used with lots of really cheap labor.

What's your answer? Do we give up on the very idea of improving things for the working poor and Middle Class?

that's it on the head. they have nothing. they offer nadda. I applaud the president.