We KNEW it would happen sooner or later.. Vegas victim suing

[Faun]

Don’t have to read it again because I didn’t say it modifies “the mechanism itself.” I said it modifies the operation of the gun.

Without a bump stock, a shooter has to manually squeeze the trigger multiple times to empty a clip.

With a bump stock, the shooter only has to manually squeeze the trigger once to empty a clip.

That is a modification to the operation of the gun.

No.
It doesn't change anything in regards to the firing of the rifle. Bump firing is merely a technique that can increase the speed of the trigger pull. The trigger is still pulled once for every round fired

One squeeze is all that’s needed. After that, simply maintaining that one squeeze will empty the clip.

no you are wrong.

The trigger is pulled once for each round fired.

Look at it this way

If I took a dowel and placed it in the trigger guard then I used my hands to move the rifle back and forth I am replicating bump firing. The trigger has to be depressed and released for every round fired the only difference is that instead of my finger moving back and forth I am moving the gun back and forth

It still requires nothing more than squeezing the trigger once and maintaining that squeeze. As you even admitting, a bump stock enables the shooter to fire more rapidly — that’s modifying the operation of the gun.

No you are wrong.

You don't just pull the trigger and keep it depressed when you are bump firing. The trigger gets pulled and released but instead of your finger moving and the gun staying stationary your finger stays stationary and you allow the recoil of the gun to move the gun back and forth

I don't know how many different ways I can explain this to you.

You pull the trigger once for every round. You have to as that is the very definition of a semiautomatic rifle.

Then you’re lying. Without a bump stock, a shooter has to manually squeeze the trigger for every round. With a bump stock, a shooter has to only squeeze once and maintain that squeeze as the bump stock will cause the trigger to be pulled as long as that initial squeeze is maintained.

You said yourself that a bump stock increases the rate of fire — that modifies the operation of the gun.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No.
It doesn't change anything in regards to the firing of the rifle. Bump firing is merely a technique that can increase the speed of the trigger pull. The trigger is still pulled once for every round fired

One squeeze is all that’s needed. After that, simply maintaining that one squeeze will empty the clip.

no you are wrong.

The trigger is pulled once for each round fired.

Look at it this way

If I took a dowel and placed it in the trigger guard then I used my hands to move the rifle back and forth I am replicating bump firing. The trigger has to be depressed and released for every round fired the only difference is that instead of my finger moving back and forth I am moving the gun back and forth

It still requires nothing more than squeezing the trigger once and maintaining that squeeze. As you even admitting, a bump stock enables the shooter to fire more rapidly — that’s modifying the operation of the gun.

No you are wrong.

You don't just pull the trigger and keep it depressed when you are bump firing. The trigger gets pulled and released but instead of your finger moving and the gun staying stationary your finger stays stationary and you allow the recoil of the gun to move the gun back and forth

I don't know how many different ways I can explain this to you.

You pull the trigger once for every round. You have to as that is the very definition of a semiautomatic rifle.

Then you’re lying. Without a bump stock, a shooter has to manually squeeze the trigger for every round. With a bump stock, a shooter has to only squeeze once and maintain that squeeze as the bump stock will cause the trigger to be pulled as long as that initial squeeze is maintained.

You said yourself that a bump stock increases the rate of fire — that modifies the operation of the gun.

No I am not lying you are unbelievably obtuse.

And no a bump stock does not increase the rate of fire it can increase the speed of the trigger pull.

Tell me does it matter if the gun is stationary and my finger moves back and forth to pull the trigger once for every round or if my finger is stationary and I move the gun back and forth to pull the trigger once for every round fired?

As an analogy

If I am making whipped cream and I shake the whisk back and forth in a stationary bowl is it somehow different than if I keep the whisk stationary and shake the bowl back and forth?

 

[Taz]

Adding ANYTHING to a gun modifies it. Not saying it makes it illegal or anything, just that if you add something to something else, it modifies it.

It does not modify the operation of the mechanical parts at all! I can take a gun, remove the stock, remove the pistol grip, cut off the barrel and it will still operate as though all of that were still present because they do not affect the mechanical operation of the weapon. You will still get just as dead.

By adding this piece, you've modified that gun from its original purchase state.

It does not change the OPERATION of the weapon.

It changes the weapon from its original purchase state, does it not?

But it doesnt modify the GUN ITSELF. Thats what he was trying to say. You keep saying it is a mod, which it is. But you dont understand beyond that. THAT is the problem.

If you strap a chicken to your gun, you've modified the gun. Especially if said chicken makes you shoot faster.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It does not modify the operation of the mechanical parts at all! I can take a gun, remove the stock, remove the pistol grip, cut off the barrel and it will still operate as though all of that were still present because they do not affect the mechanical operation of the weapon. You will still get just as dead.

By adding this piece, you've modified that gun from its original purchase state.

It does not change the OPERATION of the weapon.

It changes the weapon from its original purchase state, does it not?

But it doesnt modify the GUN ITSELF. Thats what he was trying to say. You keep saying it is a mod, which it is. But you dont understand beyond that. THAT is the problem.

If you strap a chicken to your gun, you've modified the gun. Especially if said chicken makes you shoot faster.

If you put a sticker on your gun you can argue you modified it.

Which is why illegal modifications are accurately described

 

[Taz]

If one can empty a clip by holding the trigger as opposed to having to squeeze the trigger to fire each and every round, why are some folks on here lying and claiming a bump stock doesn’t modify the operation of the gun? That clearly modifies the operation.

And when you say it “simulates a faster rate of fire,” you actually mean it really does fire st a faster rate. I read a bump stock can enable a shooter to get off as many as 800 rounds per minute, depending on the weapon used. No human can squeeze a trigger 800 times in a minute without some mechanical aid. So it’s not simulating a faster rate, it actually is s faster rate.

No it SIMULATES it. It bumps against your finger. The mechanism itself isnt modified.
If you need more clarification than that, read the ATF letter i posted a few pages back.

Don’t have to read it again because I didn’t say it modifies “the mechanism itself.” I said it modifies the operation of the gun.

Without a bump stock, a shooter has to manually squeeze the trigger multiple times to empty a clip.

With a bump stock, the shooter only has to manually squeeze the trigger once to empty a clip.

That is a modification to the operation of the gun.

LOL ok
That doesnt matter under federal law anyways

Well for now it doesn’t. Hopefully that changes.

Yes, we need more gun laws. That .00000001% of the population that abuses our freedoms should absolutely ruin it for the rest of us.

No, we need gun laws that work, like in other, more civilized countries that don't have mass shootings on a regular basis.

 

[Taz]

By adding this piece, you've modified that gun from its original purchase state.

It does not change the OPERATION of the weapon.

It changes the weapon from its original purchase state, does it not?

But it doesnt modify the GUN ITSELF. Thats what he was trying to say. You keep saying it is a mod, which it is. But you dont understand beyond that. THAT is the problem.

If you strap a chicken to your gun, you've modified the gun. Especially if said chicken makes you shoot faster.

If you put a sticker on your gun you can argue you modified it.

Which is why illegal modifications are accurately described

If what the Vegas shooter used is legal, then obviously, we have laws that aren't working and need to find some that will, like in other, more civilized countries that don't have mass shooting constantly.

 

[TNHarley]

No it SIMULATES it. It bumps against your finger. The mechanism itself isnt modified.
If you need more clarification than that, read the ATF letter i posted a few pages back.

Don’t have to read it again because I didn’t say it modifies “the mechanism itself.” I said it modifies the operation of the gun.

Without a bump stock, a shooter has to manually squeeze the trigger multiple times to empty a clip.

With a bump stock, the shooter only has to manually squeeze the trigger once to empty a clip.

That is a modification to the operation of the gun.

LOL ok
That doesnt matter under federal law anyways

Well for now it doesn’t. Hopefully that changes.

Yes, we need more gun laws. That .00000001% of the population that abuses our freedoms should absolutely ruin it for the rest of us.

No, we need gun laws that work, like in other, more civilized countries that don't have mass shootings on a regular basis.

You realize most mass shootings are done by gangs? You realize most gang members cant buy guns, right? If they could they probably wouldnt want one.
So how do you defeat that?

 

[Taz]

Don’t have to read it again because I didn’t say it modifies “the mechanism itself.” I said it modifies the operation of the gun.

Without a bump stock, a shooter has to manually squeeze the trigger multiple times to empty a clip.

With a bump stock, the shooter only has to manually squeeze the trigger once to empty a clip.

That is a modification to the operation of the gun.

LOL ok
That doesnt matter under federal law anyways

Well for now it doesn’t. Hopefully that changes.

Yes, we need more gun laws. That .00000001% of the population that abuses our freedoms should absolutely ruin it for the rest of us.

No, we need gun laws that work, like in other, more civilized countries that don't have mass shootings on a regular basis.

You realize most mass shootings are done by gangs? You realize most gang members cant buy guns, right? If they could they probably wouldnt want one.
So how do you defeat that?

Yes, somewhere along the way from the gun manufacturer to the gang banger, there's a weak spot in the system. Figure out where these guns are coming from, how they are getting into evildoers hands, and then do something about it. Straw purchases, lending weapons, gunshow loopholes... all could be stopped. You could even put a fingerprint-style lock on guns so that only the original owner can fire it... Not sell the class of weapons that the Vegas shooter used...

 

[Skull Pilot]

It does not change the OPERATION of the weapon.

It changes the weapon from its original purchase state, does it not?

But it doesnt modify the GUN ITSELF. Thats what he was trying to say. You keep saying it is a mod, which it is. But you dont understand beyond that. THAT is the problem.

If you strap a chicken to your gun, you've modified the gun. Especially if said chicken makes you shoot faster.

If you put a sticker on your gun you can argue you modified it.

Which is why illegal modifications are accurately described

If what the Vegas shooter used is legal, then obviously, we have laws that aren't working and need to find some that will, like in other, more civilized countries that don't have mass shooting constantly.

We don't have them constantly either.

1% of all murder occurs in mass shooting events.

As I said mass murder is the least of our murder problems

 

[TNHarley]

LOL ok
That doesnt matter under federal law anyways

Well for now it doesn’t. Hopefully that changes.

Yes, we need more gun laws. That .00000001% of the population that abuses our freedoms should absolutely ruin it for the rest of us.

No, we need gun laws that work, like in other, more civilized countries that don't have mass shootings on a regular basis.

You realize most mass shootings are done by gangs? You realize most gang members cant buy guns, right? If they could they probably wouldnt want one.
So how do you defeat that?

Yes, somewhere along the way from the gun manufacturer to the gang banger, there's a weak spot in the system. Figure out where these guns are coming from, how they are getting into evildoers hands, and then do something about it. Straw purchases, lending weapons, gunshow loopholes... all could be stopped. You could even put a fingerprint-style lock on guns so that only the original owner can fire it... Not sell the class of weapons that the Vegas shooter used...

straw purchases are illegal. You wanna make them more illegal?
what is the gun show loophole?
Stop loaning guns? Lol you can already be held liable if something happens, i believe.
What class of weapons would you want to ban? Semi autos? Why? Because .000001% of the pop abuse the freedom? Lol

 

[EverCurious]

We don't have "constant" mass shootings. We have, within our 324 million people, some fruit loops who lose their ability to deal with reality and snap.

There's no actual stats on how many insane folks are in America because that information is kept private, but we do know that some 30-40% of pleading insanity cases are murders, and most of us know of the prevalence of drugs for depression, bi-polar, extreme anxiety, etc. I suspect the number of people who "could easily snap" is pretty high.

I think it's kind of a product of our success as a country in general honestly, those who cannot succeed start to lose it. It happened during the great depression, you can see it in Asian companies too; there is a lot of pressure on folks to "do good," many lack the patience to achieve advancement - like they expect to immediately have everything with little effort, and many do not seem to be emotionally and mentally prepared for failures and setbacks... (Not saying our millennials are going to produce a rash of mass shooting or anything, and I'm not exactly sure how much of this stuff is "real" vs a kind of "acting," in order to fit in, gain sympathy, or whatever, but I do have serious concerns about what happens to these adult babies when they get out of their padded college playpens and parental bubble-wrap. I've watched so many struggle with even the most basic jobs like cashier, waitress/waiter, and even in the most "free type" jobs (like in the arts section; writer, painter, tattoos, jewelry, etc.) Almost daily I read about them crying about something that is completely "normal" in the "real world" and having completely bizarre reactions to them; like threatening to kill "the next customer" who gets upset that their order was wrong, claiming they wanted to slap a customer who requested a menu item change, wailing that someone said their art sucked, threatening to quit because their boss admonished them for being late, etc. A surprising (to me) number are unable to keep their jobs because they're too "depressed" to go to work, like constantly. A huge number of them claim they are on meds just to get through the day; a crutch that "allows" them to continue to not learn coping skills necessary for a happy life IMO. Anyway, that's the general "idea" I have of "emotionally and mentally prepared for failures" - and that's not even getting into their social and personal relationship woes... back in my day we called folks like them "needy" or "high maintenance" but it's so far beyond that "sliver" of people, that I don't even know what to call it anymore; a form of mass psychosis maybe... idk)

In any event, I don't think there's much question that we have a mental health crisis in this nation. It's actually a bit surprising to me that we have so few mass shootings; thank goodness, but still. And that's not even considering the "copy cat" types, who do shit like this in a seriously misguided attempt to "fit in" or "look cool" to their [likely acting] "peers" (Roof is probably the best example of that in recent times - IMO anyway, but I'll refrain from going into detail on my theory there.)

 

[Faun]

One squeeze is all that’s needed. After that, simply maintaining that one squeeze will empty the clip.

no you are wrong.

The trigger is pulled once for each round fired.

Look at it this way

If I took a dowel and placed it in the trigger guard then I used my hands to move the rifle back and forth I am replicating bump firing. The trigger has to be depressed and released for every round fired the only difference is that instead of my finger moving back and forth I am moving the gun back and forth

It still requires nothing more than squeezing the trigger once and maintaining that squeeze. As you even admitting, a bump stock enables the shooter to fire more rapidly — that’s modifying the operation of the gun.

No you are wrong.

You don't just pull the trigger and keep it depressed when you are bump firing. The trigger gets pulled and released but instead of your finger moving and the gun staying stationary your finger stays stationary and you allow the recoil of the gun to move the gun back and forth

I don't know how many different ways I can explain this to you.

You pull the trigger once for every round. You have to as that is the very definition of a semiautomatic rifle.

Then you’re lying. Without a bump stock, a shooter has to manually squeeze the trigger for every round. With a bump stock, a shooter has to only squeeze once and maintain that squeeze as the bump stock will cause the trigger to be pulled as long as that initial squeeze is maintained.

You said yourself that a bump stock increases the rate of fire — that modifies the operation of the gun.

No I am not lying you are unbelievably obtuse.

And no a bump stock does not increase the rate of fire it can increase the speed of the trigger pull

WTF???

Since the rate of fire is based on the speed of a trigger pull, if a bump stock can increase speed of s trigger pull, how on Earth does that not increase the rate of fire?

 

[Skull Pilot]

no you are wrong.

The trigger is pulled once for each round fired.

Look at it this way

If I took a dowel and placed it in the trigger guard then I used my hands to move the rifle back and forth I am replicating bump firing. The trigger has to be depressed and released for every round fired the only difference is that instead of my finger moving back and forth I am moving the gun back and forth

It still requires nothing more than squeezing the trigger once and maintaining that squeeze. As you even admitting, a bump stock enables the shooter to fire more rapidly — that’s modifying the operation of the gun.

No you are wrong.

You don't just pull the trigger and keep it depressed when you are bump firing. The trigger gets pulled and released but instead of your finger moving and the gun staying stationary your finger stays stationary and you allow the recoil of the gun to move the gun back and forth

I don't know how many different ways I can explain this to you.

You pull the trigger once for every round. You have to as that is the very definition of a semiautomatic rifle.

Then you’re lying. Without a bump stock, a shooter has to manually squeeze the trigger for every round. With a bump stock, a shooter has to only squeeze once and maintain that squeeze as the bump stock will cause the trigger to be pulled as long as that initial squeeze is maintained.

You said yourself that a bump stock increases the rate of fire — that modifies the operation of the gun.

No I am not lying you are unbelievably obtuse.

And no a bump stock does not increase the rate of fire it can increase the speed of the trigger pull

WTF???

Since the rate of fire is based on the speed of a trigger pull, if a bump stock can increase speed of the trigger pull, how on Earth does that not increase the rate of fire?

The rate of fire is still one round per trigger pull. Some people can shoot a semiautomatic very quickly with just a finger some shoot slower the people with faster trigger fingers aren't somehow shooting an automatic weapon.

There is no set rate of fire for a semiautomatic rifle the rate of fire is one round per trigger pull.

 

[Faun]

It still requires nothing more than squeezing the trigger once and maintaining that squeeze. As you even admitting, a bump stock enables the shooter to fire more rapidly — that’s modifying the operation of the gun.

No you are wrong.

You don't just pull the trigger and keep it depressed when you are bump firing. The trigger gets pulled and released but instead of your finger moving and the gun staying stationary your finger stays stationary and you allow the recoil of the gun to move the gun back and forth

I don't know how many different ways I can explain this to you.

You pull the trigger once for every round. You have to as that is the very definition of a semiautomatic rifle.

Then you’re lying. Without a bump stock, a shooter has to manually squeeze the trigger for every round. With a bump stock, a shooter has to only squeeze once and maintain that squeeze as the bump stock will cause the trigger to be pulled as long as that initial squeeze is maintained.

You said yourself that a bump stock increases the rate of fire — that modifies the operation of the gun.

No I am not lying you are unbelievably obtuse.

And no a bump stock does not increase the rate of fire it can increase the speed of the trigger pull

WTF???

Since the rate of fire is based on the speed of a trigger pull, if a bump stock can increase speed of the trigger pull, how on Earth does that not increase the rate of fire?

The rate of fire is still one round per trigger pull. Some people can shoot a semiautomatic very quickly with just a finger some shoot slower the people with faster trigger fingers aren't somehow shooting an automatic weapon.

There is no set rate of fire for a semiautomatic rifle the rate of fire is one round per trigger pull.

Nice avoidance of what I actually asked. I didn’t ask can some people shoot faster than others.

The rate of fire is based on the speed of a trigger pull ... if a bump stock can increase speed of the trigger pull, how on Earth does that not increase the rate of fire?

 

[Skull Pilot]

No you are wrong.

You don't just pull the trigger and keep it depressed when you are bump firing. The trigger gets pulled and released but instead of your finger moving and the gun staying stationary your finger stays stationary and you allow the recoil of the gun to move the gun back and forth

I don't know how many different ways I can explain this to you.

You pull the trigger once for every round. You have to as that is the very definition of a semiautomatic rifle.

Then you’re lying. Without a bump stock, a shooter has to manually squeeze the trigger for every round. With a bump stock, a shooter has to only squeeze once and maintain that squeeze as the bump stock will cause the trigger to be pulled as long as that initial squeeze is maintained.

You said yourself that a bump stock increases the rate of fire — that modifies the operation of the gun.

No I am not lying you are unbelievably obtuse.

And no a bump stock does not increase the rate of fire it can increase the speed of the trigger pull

WTF???

Since the rate of fire is based on the speed of a trigger pull, if a bump stock can increase speed of the trigger pull, how on Earth does that not increase the rate of fire?

The rate of fire is still one round per trigger pull. Some people can shoot a semiautomatic very quickly with just a finger some shoot slower the people with faster trigger fingers aren't somehow shooting an automatic weapon.

There is no set rate of fire for a semiautomatic rifle the rate of fire is one round per trigger pull.

Nice avoidance of what I actually asked. I didn’t ask can some people shoot faster than others.

The rate of fire is based on the speed of a trigger pull ... if a bump stock can increase speed of the trigger pull, how on Earth does that not increase the rate of fire?

The rate of fire is still one round per trigger pull.

You have been saying that a bump stock only require you to pull the trigger once to empty a magazine.

That is 100% wrong.

And as I said and that you completely ignored is that any semiautomatic can be bump fired without a bump stock it just takes a little practice.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It does not modify the operation of the mechanical parts at all! I can take a gun, remove the stock, remove the pistol grip, cut off the barrel and it will still operate as though all of that were still present because they do not affect the mechanical operation of the weapon. You will still get just as dead.

By adding this piece, you've modified that gun from its original purchase state.

It does not change the OPERATION of the weapon.

It changes the weapon from its original purchase state, does it not?

But it doesnt modify the GUN ITSELF. Thats what he was trying to say. You keep saying it is a mod, which it is. But you dont understand beyond that. THAT is the problem.

If you strap a chicken to your gun, you've modified the gun. Especially if said chicken makes you shoot faster.

You, sir, are an idiot.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

LOL ok
That doesnt matter under federal law anyways

Well for now it doesn’t. Hopefully that changes.

Yes, we need more gun laws. That .00000001% of the population that abuses our freedoms should absolutely ruin it for the rest of us.

No, we need gun laws that work, like in other, more civilized countries that don't have mass shootings on a regular basis.

You realize most mass shootings are done by gangs? You realize most gang members cant buy guns, right? If they could they probably wouldnt want one.
So how do you defeat that?

Yes, somewhere along the way from the gun manufacturer to the gang banger, there's a weak spot in the system. Figure out where these guns are coming from, how they are getting into evildoers hands, and then do something about it. Straw purchases, lending weapons, gunshow loopholes... all could be stopped. You could even put a fingerprint-style lock on guns so that only the original owner can fire it... Not sell the class of weapons that the Vegas shooter used...

There are laws against straw purchases, there is no gun-show loophole, and fingerprint style guns are too expensive and do not work.

There! Have a nice day!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

No it SIMULATES it. It bumps against your finger. The mechanism itself isnt modified.
If you need more clarification than that, read the ATF letter i posted a few pages back.

Don’t have to read it again because I didn’t say it modifies “the mechanism itself.” I said it modifies the operation of the gun.

Without a bump stock, a shooter has to manually squeeze the trigger multiple times to empty a clip.

With a bump stock, the shooter only has to manually squeeze the trigger once to empty a clip.

That is a modification to the operation of the gun.

LOL ok
That doesnt matter under federal law anyways

Well for now it doesn’t. Hopefully that changes.

Yes, we need more gun laws. That .00000001% of the population that abuses our freedoms should absolutely ruin it for the rest of us.

No, we need gun laws that work, like in other, more civilized countries that don't have mass shootings on a regular basis.

You mean like France? How about Belgium? Great Britain? Norway?

 

[Faun]

Then you’re lying. Without a bump stock, a shooter has to manually squeeze the trigger for every round. With a bump stock, a shooter has to only squeeze once and maintain that squeeze as the bump stock will cause the trigger to be pulled as long as that initial squeeze is maintained.

You said yourself that a bump stock increases the rate of fire — that modifies the operation of the gun.

No I am not lying you are unbelievably obtuse.

And no a bump stock does not increase the rate of fire it can increase the speed of the trigger pull

WTF???

Since the rate of fire is based on the speed of a trigger pull, if a bump stock can increase speed of the trigger pull, how on Earth does that not increase the rate of fire?

The rate of fire is still one round per trigger pull. Some people can shoot a semiautomatic very quickly with just a finger some shoot slower the people with faster trigger fingers aren't somehow shooting an automatic weapon.

There is no set rate of fire for a semiautomatic rifle the rate of fire is one round per trigger pull.

Nice avoidance of what I actually asked. I didn’t ask can some people shoot faster than others.

The rate of fire is based on the speed of a trigger pull ... if a bump stock can increase speed of the trigger pull, how on Earth does that not increase the rate of fire?

The rate of fire is still one round per trigger pull.

LOL

Look at the hurdles you’ll jump just to avoid admitting a bump stock increases the rate of fire.

Since the rate of fire is one round per trigger pull and a bump stock increases the speed of a trigger pull — how on Earth does a bump stock not increase the rate of fire??

 

[Taz]

By adding this piece, you've modified that gun from its original purchase state.

It does not change the OPERATION of the weapon.

It changes the weapon from its original purchase state, does it not?

But it doesnt modify the GUN ITSELF. Thats what he was trying to say. You keep saying it is a mod, which it is. But you dont understand beyond that. THAT is the problem.

If you strap a chicken to your gun, you've modified the gun. Especially if said chicken makes you shoot faster.

You, sir, are an idiot.

And you, sir, are on ignore.