We live in a Kakistocracy

[Gunny]

KATHY!

Please I beseach you !

Thousands of people ,Americans , LOST THEIR RIGHT TO VOTE!
'
THEY DID NOT COMMIT ANY FELONIES!

their names were similar to a felons and they DID NOTHING!

How many times are you going to parrot this SAME line? You've lost yourself in the sauce of your own argument.

Votes are legally discarded for administrative reasons EVERY election. Again, if the process is flawed, fix the process.

A flawed administrative process does NOT however support your assertion that the election was stolen. It supports only a flawed administrative process.

Why is it I KNOW that all of you whining 7 years later about this, would have absolutely NO problem if that flawed administrative process had resulted in Gore victory? Attacking the process during an election with a deadline is NOT the way to fix it.

But this wasn't about fixing the process. This was about contriving reasons in an attempt to steal an election.

Where's your Dem Congress on THIS? Are they currently working on a national-level voting process that addresses the flaws to current voting systems?

Sorry, but I don't buy the feigned indignation.

 

[Care4all]

Perhaps voters should attempt to prove they have half the intelligence they think they do and read the instructions? Blaming the Secretary of State for a lack of reading and comprehension skills and/or intellectual laziness on the part of voters is a bit lame, IMO.

Regardless what Matt says, I'm more than willing to say that this alleged ten thousand people in West Palm Beach you claim had trouble with something as simple as a butterfly ballot ARE either lying or retarded.

Why do we continually have to make excuses for the intellectually lazy/just plain dumb, and dumb our system down to cater to them? Since you consider this type ballot to difficult, what exactly DO you consider an idiot-proof ballot?

hmmmm, since when did an IQ requirement become mandatory to be able to have a vote that COUNTS in this great country of ours?

Let's see the constitution or a law of this land that says a high IQ is required to have a voice and a say in your country....

Let's see this legislation that says we no longer have ONE MAN ONE VOTE for democracy....

you are being an elitist pompous ass.... and your comments are a disgrace to our country and what we stand for.... (and yes, I am being mean )

 

[Care4all]

The point of confusion is that Al Gore is the second name on the ballot but to vote for him one had to punch the third punch hole on the ballot. If one just punched the second hole, thinking that it was for Al Gore, he/she would have voted instead for Pat Buchanan. Someone with poor eyesight or who was in a hurry to vote could have made that mistake. Apparently many thousands, perhaps over 3,000, of the 450,000+ votes in Palm Beach county did make that mistake.

BY LAW Florida listed gwb first on their ballot because the ruling and governing power of the individual state, the Republicans in this case, tthe first candidate on the ballot is from the party of the ruling government, and by law the second person on the ballot is the opposing main party, the Democratic candidate in this case.

Gore was put in the second slot per law....

But the way the butterfly ballot was designed, the second punchwhole after Bush who was the first punch hole, was FOR PAT BUCCHANON.....

Please go to this link that shows the butterfly ballot:

http://arts.bev.net/roperldavid/politics/FL2000.htm

Care

 

[Gunny]

hmmmm, since when did an IQ requirement become mandatory to be able to have a vote that COUNTS in this great country of ours?

Let's see the constitution or a law of this land that says a high IQ is required to have a voice and a say in your country....

Let's see this legislation that says we no longer have ONE MAN ONE VOTE for democracy....

you are being an elitist pompous ass.... and your comments are a disgrace to our country and what we stand for.... (and yes, I am being mean )

I did not state there was an IQ requirement in order for one's vote to count. Nor is there anything elitist about criticizing people for not taking the time to read simple, first grade instructions. Nor does your personal address my point; rather, it is nothing more than a deflection from it.

The price for NOT reading those simple, first-grade instructions is quite obvious ... the vote is not counted via the admininstrative process. It's a real simple concept ... follow the rules and your vote counts. Ignore them and it doesn't. That simple concept applies to all facets of life in this country from kindergarten to applying for a credit card to voting.

If you want to overlook that simple, underlying fact in lieu of an argument that basically says votes should count whether or not the rules are adhered to, I most certainly cannot help you.

 

[Gunny]

BY LAW Florida listed gwb first on their ballot because the ruling and governing power of the individual state, the Republicans in this case, tthe first candidate on the ballot is from the party of the ruling government, and by law the second person on the ballot is the opposing main party, the Democratic candidate in this case.

Gore was put in the second slot per law....

But the way the butterfly ballot was designed, the second punchwhole after Bush who was the first punch hole, was FOR PAT BUCCHANON.....

Please go to this link that shows the butterfly ballot:

http://arts.bev.net/roperldavid/politics/FL2000.htm

Care

Now see how simple that is? Even *you* figured it out. That fact alone tends to negate your argument.

 

[Truthmatters]

So a quick resolution is more important than True Democracy?


Quick results beat out the true intent of the electing voters?


How proud our founding fathers would be.


This list was presented by the people who complied it with a warning that it would disenfranchise MANY voters and the Florida election officail said that is the list I want.

Then they did not instruct the poll workers how to use it.

Then the investigations into its effect showed that thousands lost their votes because of it.


Then the Florida electors tried to use it AGAIN with even more tweeks to not effect latino voters because they at the time were voting R in Florida.

Then the court cases forced them to Drop the list.


THIS WAS INTENTIONAL!!!!!

 

[Truthmatters]

This is one of the reasons they needed DOJ attorneys who would play the game and NOT prosicute some and force attempted cases against others.

Any one who is really looking at the evidence can see how this all ties in.

 

[Care4all]

So a quick resolution is more important than True Democracy?


Quick results beat out the true intent of the electing voters?


How proud our founding fathers would be.


This list was presented by the people who complied it with a warning that it would disenfranchise MANY voters and the Florida election officail said that is the list I want.

Then they did not instruct the poll workers how to use it.

Then the investigations into its effect showed that thousands lost their votes because of it.


Then the Florida electors tried to use it AGAIN with even more tweeks to not effect latino voters because they at the time were voting R in Florida.

Then the court cases forced them to Drop the list.


THIS WAS INTENTIONAL!!!!!

When a state goes from paying an information gathering company $200,000 for this felon list to paying someone in the 2000 election $4,000,000 MILLION dollars to come up with an expanded list.... I'd say, it would deserve some scrutiny, no?

 

[Gunny]

So a quick resolution is more important than True Democracy?


Quick results beat out the true intent of the electing voters?


How proud our founding fathers would be.


This list was presented by the people who complied it with a warning that it would disenfranchise MANY voters and the Florida election officail said that is the list I want.

Then they did not instruct the poll workers how to use it.

Then the investigations into its effect showed that thousands lost their votes because of it.


Then the Florida electors tried to use it AGAIN with even more tweeks to not effect latino voters because they at the time were voting R in Florida.

Then the court cases forced them to Drop the list.


THIS WAS INTENTIONAL!!!!!

How proud the founding fathers must be that their rules/laws enable dishonest people like you making unsubstantied claims of fraud. Obviously, you are completely ignorant to the government administrative bureaucracy/process.

There is NOTHING intentional about an apathetic bureaucracy. It's the result of laziness, not some bullshit conspiracy that requires time and effort.

And don't preach to me about democracy. You'd be completely fine with whatever dishonest process took place if Gore had been declared the winner, so get off your high horse.

 

[Gunny]

When a state goes from paying an information gathering company $200,000 for this felon list to paying someone in the 2000 election $4,000,000 MILLION dollars to come up with an expanded list.... I'd say, it would deserve some scrutiny, no?

Looks to me like the entire administrative process deserves some scrutiny. Some of us just aren't looking for a conspiracy around every corner to explain bureaucratic incompetence.

 

[Truthmatters]

Gunny the testimony of the company head revealed that he warned them and they wanted it even looser.

I have given evidence and you have given opinion.

 

[Truthmatters]

Looks to me like the entire administrative process deserves some scrutiny. Some of us just aren't looking for a conspiracy around every corner to explain bureaucratic incompetence.

Some seem to be unable to see any wrong doing no matter how blatent.

 

[Gunny]

Gunny the testimony of the company head revealed that he warned them and they wanted it even looser.

I have given evidence and you have given opinion.

You have provided absolutely NO legitimate evidence nor argument. The entire premise of your argument is based on appeals to emotion.

 

[Care4all]

I did not state there was an IQ requirement in order for one's vote to count. Nor is there anything elitist about criticizing people for not taking the time to read simple, first grade instructions. Nor does your personal address my point; rather, it is nothing more than a deflection from it.

The price for NOT reading those simple, first-grade instructions is quite obvious ... the vote is not counted via the admininstrative process. It's a real simple concept ... follow the rules and your vote counts. Ignore them and it doesn't. That simple concept applies to all facets of life in this country from kindergarten to applying for a credit card to voting.

If you want to overlook that simple, underlying fact in lieu of an argument that basically says votes should count whether or not the rules are adhered to, I most certainly cannot help you.

Creating confusion on ballots so that people WOULD be confused is okay with you and not intentional disenfranchisement? This could be the new future of voter fraud....using the system gunny....? Like giving certain voting districts more voting machines than they need while SHORTING other voting districts of voting machines.... all of these supposed legal things are being manipulated to affect the outcome of a vote.... I think it is something we should be aware of.... neither side has any ground to say their side has never committed voter fraud in a major way and we all should be on top of it, no matter the side that is doing it at the present, imho.

Giving one county and the citizens there this confusing butterfly ballot verses all other counties that had a straight line, one page, ballot is UNFAIR and does NOT give the people of that butterfly ballot county the SAME equal opportunity for their vote to count, as with their other counties....imo.

care

 

[Gunny]

Some seem to be unable to see any wrong doing no matter how blatent.

SOme people see the boogeyman behind every corner. Especially those who allow their emotions to make their arguments for them in lieu of fact/real evidence, logic and/or common sense.

 

[Truthmatters]

You have provided absolutely NO legitimate evidence nor argument. The entire premise of your argument is based on appeals to emotion.

I guess you will see nothing that doesnt say what you want to hear as evidence.

I gave you GAO reports, court cases, articles from obviously unbiased sources ,congressional inquiry studies and you gave me what to refute them?

Gunny at some point this just gets silly to keep insisting no evidence was given when you yourself have given nothing to refute the good sources I have given.

 

[Gunny]

Creating confusion on ballots so that people WOULD be confused is okay with you and not intentional disenfranchisement? This could be the new future of voter fraud....using the system gunny....? Like giving certain voting districts more voting machines than they need while SHORTING other voting districts of voting machines.... all of these supposed legal things are being manipulated to affect the outcome of a vote.... I think it is something we should be aware of.... neither side has any ground to say their side has never committed voter fraud in a major way and we all should be on top of it, no matter the side that is doing it at the present, imho.

Giving one county and the citizens there this confusing butterfly ballot verses all other counties that had a straight line, one page, ballot is UNFAIR and does NOT give the people of that butterfly ballot county the SAME equal opportunity for their vote to count, as with their other counties....imo.

care

That's a real nice theory. But that's ALL it is. I guarantee you there are far more blatantly incompetent reasons for the ballots and machines than the ones you attempt to ascribe to them.

And I'm all for fixing the bureaucratic incompetence. I'm just not going to read into something what requires nothing but imagination to see.

 

[Truthmatters]

Why is it these companies can make perfectly auditable ATM machines yet couldnt make an auditable voting machine between them all?

You do know these same companies have made ATMs since their inception right?

 

[Gunny]

Why is it these companies can make perfectly auditable ATM machines yet couldnt make an auditable voting machine between them all?

You do know these same companies have made ATMs since their inception right?

Why is it people who can operate the bells and whistles on ATM machines just fine where their money is concerned can't seem to operate a simple ballot with FAR FEWER moving parts and instructions?

 

[no1tovote4]

Why is it these companies can make perfectly auditable ATM machines yet couldnt make an auditable voting machine between them all?

You do know these same companies have made ATMs since their inception right?

This is also remarkably short of thought. Many companies did. Now, I cannot speak for Florida, but I do know that here in CO each county selects their own machines. It is relatively evident they do in Florida as well just by seeing that different machines were used in different counties. When a D county selects a machine that they cannot audit it cannot be blamed on the Rs.

We selected machines made by Eagle that are not only "audit able", they also have a paper trail that can be recounted by hand that is checked by the voter before they cast their ballot. Now Boulder county selected more easily hacked machines that you love to complain about, I have no doubt that they did it so they could "fix" the vote for Ds just a bit. (Note: Boulder is a very liberal county).

I get tired of, "It's all the Rs fault!" when reading on this subject when those counties selected their machines and their officials were of the same party the vast majority of voters were from. Either they are inept or they selected such machinery with a purpose, but blaming this on Rs is disingenuous and fails to account for the fact that those counties are run by the people who were voted on by the constituents in the area.