West (R-FL) desecrates flag

[California Girl]

bullshit

Nope.

when did you decide to become a hack?

i know lots of people on the left who defended their country and stood tall for their flag.

i know more than a few on the right who ran away.

as i said, bullshit.

I guess you missed where I explained who I refer to by 'the left', huh? I mean the assholes on that side of the political spectrum, not decent, real, liberals.

 

[Two Thumbs]

bullshit

Nope.

when did you decide to become a hack?

i know lots of people on the left who defended their country and stood tall for their flag.

i know more than a few on the right who ran away.

as i said, bullshit.

He's a freind of Obamas. Whenever I posted this I get slammed for not standing up for that assholes right to free speech.

granted, this is a generalization, but the numbers of leftist that don't give a shit far out number those that do.

 

[daveman]

So you are saying you are as bad as they are?

No, stupid. I'm saying the people who play identity politics are the ones who are racist.

And that's the left.

YOU ARE THE ONE IN HERE BRINGING UP RACE. Dude, the race card is not the way to go here. It really isnt.

He is a disgraced x army officer. Period. No black or white. Stop playing that card. YOu can link to what ever you want, YOU are using it in here.

And I repeat: If West were white, you wouldn't have your frilly panties in a wad.

Don't bother denying it.

 

[daveman]

Why you conservatives always bring race into debates? Was race mentioned in the OP? NO

Do pay attention. Retard.

The left hates black conservatives. That's what's driving that Zona chick's little hissy fit.

First off dumb ass. I a guy living in arizona..ariZONA. Get it?

Sorry. It's so hard to tell leftist guys from chicks.

Second, you are the one who keeps bringing up race in here. YOU ARE THE ONE. Not our side in here. You link to people calling him uncle tom etc, but you are as bad as they are really.

Again, you are the one playing the race card, not us in here.YOU. Get it?

Signed
ariZONA!

Well, it's easy when you stack the deck, isn't it?

In case you haven't noticed, this board isn't the sum total of reality. There is a world beyond it. And you screeching and pouting and stamping your feet when I remind you that there are racist leftists out there is entertaining but pointless.

You want to pretend there are no racists on the left. But reality simply doesn't bear that out.

But if you need someone to ignore reality with passion and volume, get a leftist.

 

[blastoff]

McCain didnt disgrace his country like West did. McCain was not forced to retire or lose his command when he got back from the pow camp.

But McCain did violate the UCMJ by giving his torturers more than just his name, rank, and serial number, as did other of his fellow POWs.

Take your fucking bullshit and shove it where the sun don't shine, blast. You are no better than Zona for making such accusations about McCain. You go endure what he endured and then come back and tell us what information you gave up.

You disgust me as much as that fucking little hack, Mona.

Not an accusation at all. It's pure fact. That you don't know about it is your problem, not mine.

In his 1999 autobiography, "Faith of My Fathers," McCain describes how he was severely injured when his plane was shot down over Hanoi -- and how his North Vietnamese interrogators used his injuries to extract information.

"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I did not cooperate," he wrote.

"I thought they were bluffing and refused to provide any information beyond my name, rank and serial number, and date of birth. They knocked me around a little to force my cooperation."

The punishment finally worked, McCain said. "Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant."

Recalling how he gave up military information to his interrogators, McCain said: "I regret very much having done so. The information was of no real use to the Vietnamese, but the Code of Conduct for American Prisoners of War orders us to refrain from providing any information beyond our names, rank and serial number."

 

[daveman]

Broke the law too! Haven't conservatives done enough already?

The blogger on the Broward-Palm Beach New Times’s website is accusing him of violating the United States Code by putting the flag in water and flying it below ground level.

“Rep. Allen West going diving off the coast of Deerfield Beach with a bunch of military veterans — except for the fact that he violated U.S. federal law in the process and provided a pictorial of himself doing so,” a blogger on the Broward-Palm Beach New Times’s website wrote early Tuesday morning.

Read more: Allen West flagged for scuba diving with Old Glory - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com

Got nothing better to do? You partisan hacks are fucking pathetic!

United States Navy Deep Sea Diver get the rare and honored privilege of
re-enlisting while literally standing on the World War II sunken ship, USS ARIZONA
exactly 68 years + 1day after she sank during the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor Hawai'i. There is also a video of the Deep Sea Divers folding the American Flag while
still underwater...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56voxid47xA]YouTube - ‪USS ARIZONA reenlistment underwater.m4v‬‏[/ame]

Are any of them black conservatives? No?

Well, that's okay, then.

 

[daveman]

I do find it somewhat ridiculous that West chooses to wear his DD 214 on his lapel. You never see Jack
Reed or John McCain doing that.

No, but Payland will ;-)

There are two things wrong with that image: That's not a Lewis quote, and that's not Palin.

Why you conservatives always bring race into debates? Was race mentioned in the OP? NO

Do pay attention. Retard.

The left hates black conservatives. That's what's driving that Zona chick's little hissy fit.

I started this thread you ASSCLOWN & race isn't in the OP. GOT IT? He's just a plain, run of the mill, opportunist who exhibits little to no judgement but that flies right over his teaparty/repub base lemming's heads.

Once again for the learning impaired, the left brought racism into West's political career long before this thread.

 

[California Girl]

But McCain did violate the UCMJ by giving his torturers more than just his name, rank, and serial number, as did other of his fellow POWs.

Take your fucking bullshit and shove it where the sun don't shine, blast. You are no better than Zona for making such accusations about McCain. You go endure what he endured and then come back and tell us what information you gave up.

You disgust me as much as that fucking little hack, Mona.

Not an accusation at all. It's pure fact. That you don't know about it is your problem, not mine.

In his 1999 autobiography, "Faith of My Fathers," McCain describes how he was severely injured when his plane was shot down over Hanoi -- and how his North Vietnamese interrogators used his injuries to extract information.

"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I did not cooperate," he wrote.

"I thought they were bluffing and refused to provide any information beyond my name, rank and serial number, and date of birth. They knocked me around a little to force my cooperation."

The punishment finally worked, McCain said. "Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant."

Recalling how he gave up military information to his interrogators, McCain said: "I regret very much having done so. The information was of no real use to the Vietnamese, but the Code of Conduct for American Prisoners of War orders us to refrain from providing any information beyond our names, rank and serial number."

I really don't need you to provide me with snippets from McCain's autobiography. I've read it twice all by myself. All I'm saying is there is no need to make accusations like this about McCain as some pathetic point scoring attempt with Zona. Zona is a moron - there is no need to be disrespectful to McCain.

In short.... stop using other people's military service - particularly a hero such as McCain - to bitchslap an idiot.

 

[Dot Com]

Once again for the learning impaired, the left brought racism into West's political career long before this thread.

You would like to bring the question of race into this thread where it isn't part of the OP. It doesn't matter if others are doing it. It's referred to as posting 'off-topic' or 'deflection'. I got to admit though, you're quite good at it

 

[Two Thumbs]

I do find it somewhat ridiculous that West chooses to wear his DD 214 on his lapel. You never see Jack
Reed or John McCain doing that.

No, but Payland will ;-)

There are two things wrong with that image: That's not a Lewis quote, and that's not Palin.

Do pay attention. Retard.

The left hates black conservatives. That's what's driving that Zona chick's little hissy fit.

I started this thread you ASSCLOWN & race isn't in the OP. GOT IT? He's just a plain, run of the mill, opportunist who exhibits little to no judgement but that flies right over his teaparty/repub base lemming's heads.

Once again for the learning impaired, the left brought racism into West's political career long before this thread.

I beat you too it!!

neener neener neener!

 

[blastoff]

Take your fucking bullshit and shove it where the sun don't shine, blast. You are no better than Zona for making such accusations about McCain. You go endure what he endured and then come back and tell us what information you gave up.

You disgust me as much as that fucking little hack, Mona.

Not an accusation at all. It's pure fact. That you don't know about it is your problem, not mine.

In his 1999 autobiography, "Faith of My Fathers," McCain describes how he was severely injured when his plane was shot down over Hanoi -- and how his North Vietnamese interrogators used his injuries to extract information.

"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I did not cooperate," he wrote.

"I thought they were bluffing and refused to provide any information beyond my name, rank and serial number, and date of birth. They knocked me around a little to force my cooperation."

The punishment finally worked, McCain said. "Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant."

Recalling how he gave up military information to his interrogators, McCain said: "I regret very much having done so. The information was of no real use to the Vietnamese, but the Code of Conduct for American Prisoners of War orders us to refrain from providing any information beyond our names, rank and serial number."

I really don't need you to provide me with snippets from McCain's autobiography. I've read it twice all by myself. All I'm saying is there is no need to make accusations like this about McCain as some pathetic point scoring attempt with Zona. Zona is a moron - there is no need to be disrespectful to McCain.

In short.... stop using other people's military service - particularly a hero such as McCain - to bitchslap an idiot.

I didn't accuse McCain of anything. I simply referenced what he flat out admitted, giving up more than name, rank, and service number to the enemy.

Also, I wasn't trying to score any points with Zona, whom I agree is a moron. I just have a problem with McCain's recent comments that torture doesn't work when he admitted in the past that it worked on him. Hell, I even voted for the guy. He wasn't my preferred candidate, but I figured he was light years better than the screaming lightweight libel he was running against.

 

[California Girl]

Not an accusation at all. It's pure fact. That you don't know about it is your problem, not mine.

In his 1999 autobiography, "Faith of My Fathers," McCain describes how he was severely injured when his plane was shot down over Hanoi -- and how his North Vietnamese interrogators used his injuries to extract information.

"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I did not cooperate," he wrote.

"I thought they were bluffing and refused to provide any information beyond my name, rank and serial number, and date of birth. They knocked me around a little to force my cooperation."

The punishment finally worked, McCain said. "Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant."

Recalling how he gave up military information to his interrogators, McCain said: "I regret very much having done so. The information was of no real use to the Vietnamese, but the Code of Conduct for American Prisoners of War orders us to refrain from providing any information beyond our names, rank and serial number."

I really don't need you to provide me with snippets from McCain's autobiography. I've read it twice all by myself. All I'm saying is there is no need to make accusations like this about McCain as some pathetic point scoring attempt with Zona. Zona is a moron - there is no need to be disrespectful to McCain.

In short.... stop using other people's military service - particularly a hero such as McCain - to bitchslap an idiot.

I didn't accuse McCain of anything. I simply referenced what he flat out admitted, giving up more than name, rank, and service number to the enemy.

Also, I wasn't trying to score any points with Zona, whom I agree is a moron. I just have a problem with McCain's recent comments that torture doesn't work when he admitted in the past that it worked on him. Hell, I even voted for the guy. He wasn't my preferred candidate, but I figured he was light years better than the screaming lightweight libel he was running against.

I agree with you. I just don't like to see a hero like McCain slammed in an attempt to bitchslap Zona. It's easy enough to bitchslap him.... he can't post a reasoned argument on any topic.

 

[geauxtohell]

I do find it somewhat ridiculous that West chooses to wear his DD 214 on his lapel. You never see Jack
Reed or John McCain doing that.

No, but Payland will ;-)

There are two things wrong with that image: That's not a Lewis quote, and that's not Palin.

Do pay attention. Retard.

The left hates black conservatives. That's what's driving that Zona chick's little hissy fit.

I started this thread you ASSCLOWN & race isn't in the OP. GOT IT? He's just a plain, run of the mill, opportunist who exhibits little to no judgement but that flies right over his teaparty/repub base lemming's heads.

Once again for the learning impaired, the left brought racism into West's political career long before this thread.

That's strange. I remember seeing that quote in "It Can't Happen Here".

Good book. I recommend it to everyone, regardless of politics.

 

[geauxtohell]

Any decent Officer would have done the same thing. They are responsible for the lives of those under them.

No they would not. No Battalion Commander I worked for would have pulled a cowboy move like this:



It's not about careerism. It's about doing what is right. Officers lead by example. If you send the message to your men that you have a total disregard for the UCMJ, then it creates a snowball effect. I suspect his command climate wasn't up to snuff to begin with if his soldiers were beating detainees to obtain information.

I find what West did to be stupid. Not heroic. At best, his men were deprived of their commander and had to deal with the upheaval of having a replacement come in.

I also doubt he's "well respected" in the Army. Only because a LTC is relatively low visibility. Most people in the Army probably hadn't heard of West before he ran.

In fact, I respect him more for what he did - and I suspect many in the Army feel likewise. Zona is just a desperate little hack who's scared of black conservatives.

You were also never an officer and probably don't get how badly West screwed up. I don't respect him. I see him as unfit for command. The Army agrees.

I know a whole bunch of Army Officers who have a lot of respect for West. I know, because I've discussed it with them. Not one bad word for him. Not one.

Do they respect him for his career as a soldier (where they aware of it before he ran) or his political views and the publicity of his career after he jumped into the spotlight?

 

[geauxtohell]

"According to West, the Iraqi then spilled the beans about a planned ambush. The policeman, Yehiya Kadoori Hamoodi, told The New York Times almost a year later that he had blurted out meaningless information to West out of fear and pain. But West has said that after the confession, no further attacks were made against his battalion until the time he was relieved of duty two months later."

West protected the lives of his soldiers. Why is that a problem?

Because he crapped on the UCMJ to do so.

The classic and similar veignette is using villagers to walk through a minefield to lead a platoon through on the assumption that they know where the mines are.

If you pull that shit, you aren't fit to wear the rank. Maybe West wanted to matyr himself. The men I served under and admired would have never done this shit. They also wouldn't allow solders to beat civilians.

 

[daveman]

I beat you too it!!

neener neener neener!

 

[daveman]

That's strange. I remember seeing that quote in "It Can't Happen Here".

Good book. I recommend it to everyone, regardless of politics.

To give you a sense of Neiwert’s unique brand of scholarship, The Eliminationists quotes novelist Sinclair Lewis’s quip that fascism in the United States will come "wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." In the days since the shootings in Arizona, an image of the Lewis quote superimposed on an photo of Palin has made the rounds on Facebook and a number of left-leaning blogs. An attack on Beck, Palin, and Limbaugh appeared in letters page of today’s Seattle Times citing Sinclair Lewis’s supposedly prescient observation, and warning Americans not to ignore the signs of a fascist takeover—as so many “middle class Germans” did.

Thankfully, Neiwert’s book footnotes the quote, attributing it to Lewis’s 1935 novel It Can’t Happen Here, though he curiously fails to provide a page number. This is because Neiwert is bluffing, fudging the citation—the (rather unimpressive) line can’t be found in It Can’t Happen Here because Lewis never uttered or committed it to paper. It is, in fact, an Internet quotation; one spread far and wide by the dumb and partisan, despite an obviously murky provenance.

The phony Lewis quote also shows up in liberal journalist Joe Conason’s book (titled, of course, It Can Happen Here) on the coming of fascism in the United States—a threat that vanished, apparently, after the peaceful transition from Bush to Obama. And for those keeping score at home, Chris Matthews, in a recent conversation about Sarah Palin on Hardball, told guest Richard Wolffe that “Huey Long wasn't the most sane guy in the world, Richard, but he said that when fascism comes to America, it will call itself anti-fascism.” As you might have already guessed, the Long quote is also fake.​

The Extreme Rhetoric about Extreme Rhetoric (With Bonus Fake Sinclair Lewis Fascism Quote!) - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

 

[hortysir]

Any soldier who breaks the law (UCMJ) in the manner he did should be locked up.

He was in violation of some serious charges. Enough where he had to "retire" or go to jail. He lost his command, respect as an honorable officer and any chance of redemption.

Basically he sucks and should never, ever be seen anywhere near the flag he disgraced.

West was charged with violating articles 128 (assault) and 134 (general article) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. During a hearing held as part of an Article 32 investigation in November 2003, West stated, "I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers."[citation needed] The charges were ultimately referred to an Article 15 proceeding rather than court-martial, at which West was fined $5,000.[11] LTC West accepted the judgment and retired with full benefits in the summer of 2004. Asked if he would have acted differently if under similar circumstances again, West testified, "If it's about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can."[13] After Colonel West was relieved of his command, an interpreter said that without his presence the region he previously oversaw became more dangerous and chaotic.[11]
​

Sounds like he was a good, effective officer who made a bad decision and paid for it.

Why don't you just admit you want him charged for Being Conservative While Black?

He was found guilty, stripped of his command and forced to either retire or face court martial.

How can you defend this piece of shit x army (disgraced) officer? This moron actually said he had a higher security clearance than the president. Can you believe this crap. An disgraced, X army officer who was forced to get the fuck out (oh and had to pay 5k on the way out the door) or face a court martial. If he thought he was not wrong, why not go for the court martial?

By the way...are you seriously playing the race card? Why does your side always do this?

Daveman provided a link and a quote of the proceedings.
I have yet to see where anyone was 'forced out' of anything.

And you are SO full of shit about the race card.

 

[hortysir]

Let's trash the conservative black man.

Never let him be an example for black kids growing up in America.

Never let girls get any ideas that being a conservative is cool.



I see this shit for what it is.

Keeps the focus off of Weiner's dick

 

[daveman]

Let's trash the conservative black man.

Never let him be an example for black kids growing up in America.

Never let girls get any ideas that being a conservative is cool.



I see this shit for what it is.

Keeps the focus off of Weiner's dick

...and Obama's disastrous economy.