What explains "democratic Socialists"?

[dblack]

That’s actually not funny at all. Socialism should scare everyone. It scares the shit out of anyone that escaped it so that should tell you something.

That depends on what you're talking about. Venezuelan socialism? Sure. The Democratic socialism of Canada, Germany and Australia? Not so much.

Socialism is socialism. Same theory, same goals. Just because it's less of a disaster in some places doesn't mean it's a good idea.

This all exists on a continuum. The degree and cost and nature of government involvement exist on a continuum. It's not one or the other.
.

No, there are real distinctions to be made. Real values. Real priorities. Real policies. Pretending it's all an "illusion" serves no purpose other than deception.

Those values, priorities and policies exist along a spectrum, too.
.

So what? You use that as cover, as though it deflects criticism. But it doesn't change anything.

 

[deanrd]

What explains "democratic Socialists"?

Are they gullible? Ignorant? How were they deluded into believing that THEY will be the Billionaire Socialist dictator?

Socialist Paradise Venezuela: 2,000,000% inflation, no food, no running water, people eat their pets and sell their kids, the political leaders are BILLIONAIRES!

"You bet you life it will work this time!"

Americans helping other Americans. You wouldn’t understand.

 

[Mac1958]

That depends on what you're talking about. Venezuelan socialism? Sure. The Democratic socialism of Canada, Germany and Australia? Not so much.

Socialism is socialism. Same theory, same goals. Just because it's less of a disaster in some places doesn't mean it's a good idea.

This all exists on a continuum. The degree and cost and nature of government involvement exist on a continuum. It's not one or the other.
.

You had be very damn careful how much power you give government. Capitalists not so much. You can just stop buying their products. Government doesn’t give you that choice.

We let the capitalists (of which I am one) run wild and that led to the Meltdown.

The key is finding and maintaining the proper balance.
.

Not what happened at all. Government demanded those banks give out the loans and in return government would guarantee the loans. If it was capitalism the loans would never have been made and if they were you would no longer see that bank today.

Yes, the ol' CRA routine.

The bankers who were in the middle of it didn't even try that one. They admitted what happened:



And if you plan on sticking with the CRA meme, perhaps you can be the first to answer these questions for me:

1. How did the CRA force the banks to create shitty, opaque CMOs and the even more hideous CDOs?
2. How did the CRA force mortgage companies to sell shit mortgages to the banks to be put in those CMO's, often by the very next day?
   
3. How did the CRA force the ratings agencies to slap AAA (TREASURY-level) ratings on those shit securities, making them highly attractive to buy?
4. How did the CRA force mortgage companies to write no-doc loans with insane balloons, knowing they'd be sold off in 12 hours to a shit CMO at NO risk?
   
5. How did the CRA force the banks to threaten the ratings agencies with lost business if they didn't give them AAA ratings on shit securities?
   
6. How did the CRA force Alan Greenspan to REFUSE to regulate derivatives while CFTC Chairwoman Brooksley Borns was BEGGING him to?
7. How did the CRA force the banks to drop their standards to the ground when they needed more shit CMO's and CDO's to SELL OFF for huge fees?
8. How did the CRA force the banks to SHORT the VERY SAME shit securities they were selling to their CLIENTS, WHILE the whole thing was collapsing?
9. How did the CRA force GS & John Paulson to create shit CMO's that were SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to FAIL so they could buy swaps on them, making Paulson a cool $2 BILLION?
10. How did the CRA force AIG to write zillions in credit default swaps with ZERO reserves to back them up, since that kind of obvious regulation would be "socialism"?
    

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What explains "democratic Socialists"?

Are they gullible? Ignorant? How were they deluded into believing that THEY will be the Billionaire Socialist dictator?

Socialist Paradise Venezuela: 2,000,000% inflation, no food, no running water, people eat their pets and sell their kids, the political leaders are BILLIONAIRES!

"You bet you life it will work this time!"

Americans helping other Americans. You wouldn’t understand.

You mean like charities?

 

[Mac1958]

That depends on what you're talking about. Venezuelan socialism? Sure. The Democratic socialism of Canada, Germany and Australia? Not so much.

Socialism is socialism. Same theory, same goals. Just because it's less of a disaster in some places doesn't mean it's a good idea.

This all exists on a continuum. The degree and cost and nature of government involvement exist on a continuum. It's not one or the other.
.

No, there are real distinctions to be made. Real values. Real priorities. Real policies. Pretending it's all an "illusion" serves no purpose other than deception.

Those values, priorities and policies exist along a spectrum, too.
.

So what? You use that as cover, as though it deflects criticism. But it doesn't change anything.

It's true.

We just don't to acknowledge it, because doing so would require nuance. Canada and Venezuela are different. They exist on clearly different points on the continuum.
.

 

[dblack]

Socialism is socialism. Same theory, same goals. Just because it's less of a disaster in some places doesn't mean it's a good idea.

This all exists on a continuum. The degree and cost and nature of government involvement exist on a continuum. It's not one or the other.
.

No, there are real distinctions to be made. Real values. Real priorities. Real policies. Pretending it's all an "illusion" serves no purpose other than deception.

Those values, priorities and policies exist along a spectrum, too.
.

So what? You use that as cover, as though it deflects criticism. But it doesn't change anything.

It's true.

We just don't to acknowledge it, because doing so would require nuance. Canada and Venezuela are different. They exist on clearly different points on the continuum.
.

Again. So. The. Fuck. What? Theocracy exists on on continuum. So does Fascism. Shall we have some?

 

[Mac1958]

This all exists on a continuum. The degree and cost and nature of government involvement exist on a continuum. It's not one or the other.
.

No, there are real distinctions to be made. Real values. Real priorities. Real policies. Pretending it's all an "illusion" serves no purpose other than deception.

Those values, priorities and policies exist along a spectrum, too.
.

So what? You use that as cover, as though it deflects criticism. But it doesn't change anything.

It's true.

We just don't to acknowledge it, because doing so would require nuance. Canada and Venezuela are different. They exist on clearly different points on the continuum.
.

Again. So. The. Fuck. What? Theocracy exists on on continuum. So does Fascism. Shall we have some?

Well, I'm sure that will make a very compelling and effective argument to save us from socialism.

A word that no longer scares anyone, now that it's been over-used to a comical level.
.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

My fear is that our "educational system" is turning out people so fucking stupid we have a freshman Congressman who believes there are "three branches of Congress" So, of course, they're going to believe that they will be -- magically -- "better off" by surrendering their guns, freedoms and property to an American Socialist dictator.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Socialism is socialism. Same theory, same goals. Just because it's less of a disaster in some places doesn't mean it's a good idea.

This all exists on a continuum. The degree and cost and nature of government involvement exist on a continuum. It's not one or the other.
.

You had be very damn careful how much power you give government. Capitalists not so much. You can just stop buying their products. Government doesn’t give you that choice.

We let the capitalists (of which I am one) run wild and that led to the Meltdown.

The key is finding and maintaining the proper balance.
.

Not what happened at all. Government demanded those banks give out the loans and in return government would guarantee the loans. If it was capitalism the loans would never have been made and if they were you would no longer see that bank today.

Yes, the ol' CRA routine.

The bankers who were in the middle of it didn't even try that one. They admitted what happened:



And if you plan on sticking with the CRA meme, perhaps you can be the first to answer these questions for me:

1. How did the CRA force the banks to create shitty, opaque CMOs and the even more hideous CDOs?
2. How did the CRA force mortgage companies to sell shit mortgages to the banks to be put in those CMO's, often by the very next day?
   
3. How did the CRA force the ratings agencies to slap AAA (TREASURY-level) ratings on those shit securities, making them highly attractive to buy?
4. How did the CRA force mortgage companies to write no-doc loans with insane balloons, knowing they'd be sold off in 12 hours to a shit CMO at NO risk?
   
5. How did the CRA force the banks to threaten the ratings agencies with lost business if they didn't give them AAA ratings on shit securities?
   
6. How did the CRA force Alan Greenspan to REFUSE to regulate derivatives while CFTC Chairwoman Brooksley Borns was BEGGING him to?
7. How did the CRA force the banks to drop their standards to the ground when they needed more shit CMO's and CDO's to SELL OFF for huge fees?
8. How did the CRA force the banks to SHORT the VERY SAME shit securities they were selling to their CLIENTS, WHILE the whole thing was collapsing?
9. How did the CRA force GS & John Paulson to create shit CMO's that were SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to FAIL so they could buy swaps on them, making Paulson a cool $2 BILLION?
10. How did the CRA force AIG to write zillions in credit default swaps with ZERO reserves to back them up, since that kind of obvious regulation would be "socialism"?

Kinda crazy how much damage one government program can spread throughout the entire system isn’t it?

 

[dblack]

No, there are real distinctions to be made. Real values. Real priorities. Real policies. Pretending it's all an "illusion" serves no purpose other than deception.

Those values, priorities and policies exist along a spectrum, too.
.

So what? You use that as cover, as though it deflects criticism. But it doesn't change anything.

It's true.

We just don't to acknowledge it, because doing so would require nuance. Canada and Venezuela are different. They exist on clearly different points on the continuum.
.

Again. So. The. Fuck. What? Theocracy exists on on continuum. So does Fascism. Shall we have some?

Well, I'm sure that will make a very compelling and effective argument to save us from socialism.

What will make a very compelling argument?? I haven't even made an argument here. I'm just objecting to your attempts at obfuscation.

A word that no longer scares anyone, now that it's been over-used to a comical level.

Yes, and you're just as guilty for that as the McCarthy crowd. You seem desperate to shut down any discussion of socialism by equivocating on the definition. I don't get it.

 

[Oddball]

Socialism is socialism. Same theory, same goals. Just because it's less of a disaster in some places doesn't mean it's a good idea.

This all exists on a continuum. The degree and cost and nature of government involvement exist on a continuum. It's not one or the other.
.

You had be very damn careful how much power you give government. Capitalists not so much. You can just stop buying their products. Government doesn’t give you that choice.

We let the capitalists (of which I am one) run wild and that led to the Meltdown.

The key is finding and maintaining the proper balance.
.

Not what happened at all. Government demanded those banks give out the loans and in return government would guarantee the loans. If it was capitalism the loans would never have been made and if they were you would no longer see that bank today.

Yes, the ol' CRA routine.

The bankers who were in the middle of it didn't even try that one. They admitted what happened:



And if you plan on sticking with the CRA meme, perhaps you can be the first to answer these questions for me:

1. How did the CRA force the banks to create shitty, opaque CMOs and the even more hideous CDOs?
2. How did the CRA force mortgage companies to sell shit mortgages to the banks to be put in those CMO's, often by the very next day?
   
3. How did the CRA force the ratings agencies to slap AAA (TREASURY-level) ratings on those shit securities, making them highly attractive to buy?
4. How did the CRA force mortgage companies to write no-doc loans with insane balloons, knowing they'd be sold off in 12 hours to a shit CMO at NO risk?
   
5. How did the CRA force the banks to threaten the ratings agencies with lost business if they didn't give them AAA ratings on shit securities?
   
6. How did the CRA force Alan Greenspan to REFUSE to regulate derivatives while CFTC Chairwoman Brooksley Borns was BEGGING him to?
7. How did the CRA force the banks to drop their standards to the ground when they needed more shit CMO's and CDO's to SELL OFF for huge fees?
8. How did the CRA force the banks to SHORT the VERY SAME shit securities they were selling to their CLIENTS, WHILE the whole thing was collapsing?
9. How did the CRA force GS & John Paulson to create shit CMO's that were SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to FAIL so they could buy swaps on them, making Paulson a cool $2 BILLION?
10. How did the CRA force AIG to write zillions in credit default swaps with ZERO reserves to back them up, since that kind of obvious regulation would be "socialism"?

BTW, crony corporatism ≠ capitalism.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What explains "democratic Socialists"?

Are they gullible? Ignorant? How were they deluded into believing that THEY will be the Billionaire Socialist dictator?

Socialist Paradise Venezuela: 2,000,000% inflation, no food, no running water, people eat their pets and sell their kids, the political leaders are BILLIONAIRES!

"You bet you life it will work this time!"

Americans helping other Americans. You wouldn’t understand.

What next, Jesus was a Socialist?

 

[sakinago]

What explains "democratic Socialists"?

Are they gullible? Ignorant? How were they deluded into believing that THEY will be the Billionaire Socialist dictator?

Socialist Paradise Venezuela: 2,000,000% inflation, no food, no running water, people eat their pets and sell their kids, the political leaders are BILLIONAIRES!

"You bet you life it will work this time!"

Democratic Socialists are thinking about Canada, Germany and Australia.

Not Venezuela.

This has only been pointed out about fifteen million times. And it still doesn't sink in for some. Maybe after sixteen million.
.

Not democratic socialist countries. Pointed out just as many times you’ve made this stupid point. They are capitalist countries. Countries who, like the US, have social programs. Bernie points to these programs and says I want that, then he says I also want to take over banking, a policy that NONE of this countries would ever advocate for, because that is actually socialism.
Denmark Tells Bernie Sanders It's Had Enough Of His 'Socialist' Slurs | Investor's Business Daily

These countries like capitalism, they have one or two larger social programs than the United States, like healthcare. Bernie wants to take their healthcare program even further than them and eliminate all private insurance, something that’d make their citizens shit their pants. For instance, private insurance is held by 2/3 of Canadians.

How is it people know so little about what they are proponents of. I don’t care if your socialist if you actually understand what it is. It baffles me that non of y’all seem to know what the fuck it is you’re advocating for.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

What explains "democratic Socialists"?

Are they gullible? Ignorant? How were they deluded into believing that THEY will be the Billionaire Socialist dictator?

Socialist Paradise Venezuela: 2,000,000% inflation, no food, no running water, people eat their pets and sell their kids, the political leaders are BILLIONAIRES!

"You bet you life it will work this time!"

Democratic Socialists are thinking about Canada, Germany and Australia.

Not Venezuela.

This has only been pointed out about fifteen million times. And it still doesn't sink in for some. Maybe after sixteen million.
.

that is how it starts, until they run out of paychecks to loot

 

[Mac1958]

Those values, priorities and policies exist along a spectrum, too.
.

So what? You use that as cover, as though it deflects criticism. But it doesn't change anything.

It's true.

We just don't to acknowledge it, because doing so would require nuance. Canada and Venezuela are different. They exist on clearly different points on the continuum.
.

Again. So. The. Fuck. What? Theocracy exists on on continuum. So does Fascism. Shall we have some?

Well, I'm sure that will make a very compelling and effective argument to save us from socialism.

What will make a very compelling argument?? I haven't even made an argument here. I'm just objecting to your attempts at obfuscation.

A word that no longer scares anyone, now that it's been over-used to a comical level.

Yes, and you're just as guilty for that as the McCarthy crowd. You seem desperate to shut down any discussion of socialism by equivocating on the definition. I don't get it.

Don't you think that definitions are important in a serious conversation? I do. Right now, it looks like no two people here have the same definition of the term "socialism". All I get are vague generalities.

I'm not obfuscating, I'm trying to nail down definitions. And I never seem to be able to with the people who keep screaming SOCIALISM.

Essentially a mirror image of what I get from those constantly screaming RACISM.
.

 

[Mac1958]

What explains "democratic Socialists"?

Are they gullible? Ignorant? How were they deluded into believing that THEY will be the Billionaire Socialist dictator?

Socialist Paradise Venezuela: 2,000,000% inflation, no food, no running water, people eat their pets and sell their kids, the political leaders are BILLIONAIRES!

"You bet you life it will work this time!"

Democratic Socialists are thinking about Canada, Germany and Australia.

Not Venezuela.

This has only been pointed out about fifteen million times. And it still doesn't sink in for some. Maybe after sixteen million.
.

Not democratic socialist countries. Pointed out just as many times you’ve made this stupid point. They are capitalist countries. Countries who, like the US, have social programs. Bernie points to these programs and says I want that, then he says I also want to take over banking, a policy that NONE of this countries would ever advocate for, because that is actually socialism.
Denmark Tells Bernie Sanders It's Had Enough Of His 'Socialist' Slurs | Investor's Business Daily

These countries like capitalism, they have one or two larger social programs than the United States, like healthcare. Bernie wants to take their healthcare program even further than them and eliminate all private insurance, something that’d make their citizens shit their pants. For instance, private insurance is held by 2/3 of Canadians.

How is it people know so little about what they are proponents of. I don’t care if your socialist if you actually understand what it is. It baffles me that non of y’all seem to know what the fuck it is you’re advocating for.

I'm actually not advocating for it. What I'm trying to do is see if I can get the right wingers to dump the talking points and platitudes and up their game a bit.

So far, no luck!

You're handing socialism, or at least democratic socialism, to them on a silver platter and you don't even realize it.
.

 

[dblack]

So what? You use that as cover, as though it deflects criticism. But it doesn't change anything.

It's true.

We just don't to acknowledge it, because doing so would require nuance. Canada and Venezuela are different. They exist on clearly different points on the continuum.
.

Again. So. The. Fuck. What? Theocracy exists on on continuum. So does Fascism. Shall we have some?

Well, I'm sure that will make a very compelling and effective argument to save us from socialism.

What will make a very compelling argument?? I haven't even made an argument here. I'm just objecting to your attempts at obfuscation.

A word that no longer scares anyone, now that it's been over-used to a comical level.

Yes, and you're just as guilty for that as the McCarthy crowd. You seem desperate to shut down any discussion of socialism by equivocating on the definition. I don't get it.

Don't you think that definitions are important in a serious conversation? I do. Right now, it looks like no two people here have the same definition of the term "socialism".

Socialism is government control of the economy. That's what we're talking about. It's not a mystery. You seem more confused than anyone else.

 

[Mac1958]

It's true.

We just don't to acknowledge it, because doing so would require nuance. Canada and Venezuela are different. They exist on clearly different points on the continuum.
.

Again. So. The. Fuck. What? Theocracy exists on on continuum. So does Fascism. Shall we have some?

Well, I'm sure that will make a very compelling and effective argument to save us from socialism.

What will make a very compelling argument?? I haven't even made an argument here. I'm just objecting to your attempts at obfuscation.

A word that no longer scares anyone, now that it's been over-used to a comical level.

Yes, and you're just as guilty for that as the McCarthy crowd. You seem desperate to shut down any discussion of socialism by equivocating on the definition. I don't get it.

Don't you think that definitions are important in a serious conversation? I do. Right now, it looks like no two people here have the same definition of the term "socialism".

Socialism is government control of the economy. That's what we're talking about. It's not a mystery. You seem more confused than anyone else.

How much government control?
.

 

[anynameyouwish]

What explains "democratic Socialists"?

Are they gullible? Ignorant? How were they deluded into believing that THEY will be the Billionaire Socialist dictator?

Socialist Paradise Venezuela: 2,000,000% inflation, no food, no running water, people eat their pets and sell their kids, the political leaders are BILLIONAIRES!

"You bet you life it will work this time!"

Democratic Socialists are thinking about Canada, Germany and Australia.

Not Venezuela.

This has only been pointed out about fifteen million times. And it still doesn't sink in for some. Maybe after sixteen million.
.

Norway, Finland, Denmark

the happiest countries in the world!

 

[dblack]

Again. So. The. Fuck. What? Theocracy exists on on continuum. So does Fascism. Shall we have some?

Well, I'm sure that will make a very compelling and effective argument to save us from socialism.

What will make a very compelling argument?? I haven't even made an argument here. I'm just objecting to your attempts at obfuscation.

A word that no longer scares anyone, now that it's been over-used to a comical level.

Yes, and you're just as guilty for that as the McCarthy crowd. You seem desperate to shut down any discussion of socialism by equivocating on the definition. I don't get it.

Don't you think that definitions are important in a serious conversation? I do. Right now, it looks like no two people here have the same definition of the term "socialism".

Socialism is government control of the economy. That's what we're talking about. It's not a mystery. You seem more confused than anyone else.

How much government control?

It doesn't matter. A little government control of the economy is a little socialism. A lot of government control of the economy is a lot of socialism. Shocking revelation, eh?