What harm was done by Monday's Putin-Trump press conference?

[toobfreak]

Yeah, in the US today the Dimocrats can slam on the President and behead him in effigy while he is overseas trying to negotiate better treaties for the American people, but our intel agencies are sacrosanct and never to be criticized by a Republican.

Brilliantly put. Our Intel agencies have SERIOUSLY damaged their credibility in recent years by becoming politicized. We can't trust the FBI nor the IRS. Now here comes Trump in a private meeting with Putin that nobody knows what was said and discussed behind closed doors, and during a public press interview, stops short of damning them as the Leftist media tried to GOAT HIM INTO DOING, so as to not destroy whatever he's gained in private and now he's a traitor?

Had Trump done so, the Left would have (and was prepared to) simply move onto the next argument trying to pin him into another corner.

 

[toobfreak]

A sitting US president took the side of a murderous dictator over his own country's and forgein allies intelligence. That's the damage.

Russia is known to be sneaky and untrustworthy. Yet Trump takes Putin's word they didn't meddle I the election? Putin's own European neighbors don't even trust him.

No one was killed, no one lost any money on Monday, the only "damage" was the fragile egos of the intelligence community. They'll get over it. Maybe the President needs to make the G Men wear dresses if they are going to cry like women.

Yeah, in the US today the Dimocrats can slam on the President and behead him in effigy while he is overseas trying to negotiate better treaties for the American people, but our intel agencies are sacrosanct and never to be criticized by a Republican. Supposedly.

Of course the Truth of the matter is that even if Trump invented a cure for cancer, liberals would complain that they have a right to die by cancer if they want to.

Trump cannot do anything to please the Resist!!!! Dimocrats.

And their hysteria grows louder and more shrill every day.

One day soon their heads are just going to explode.

If I were Russian, I'd be incredibly proud of how my country has humiliated the U.S.

The humiliation would be all yours and HAS BEEN since 2010.

 

[toobfreak]

I don't see any at all. No one was killed, no damage to any American institutions, it wasn't "pearl harbor" or "kristalnacht". A real nothing burger.

Some of America's "intelligence" agencies and agents seem to have had their feelings hurt.

Who freaking cares, really? These "intelligence" people have been against President Trump came into office, you really can't blame anyone for not trusting someone who is trying to drum you out of office.


If the Republican Party allows the Democrats to run him out over nothing, I'll never vote again.

A sitting US president took the side of a murderous dictator over his own country's and forgein allies intelligence. That's the damage.

Russia is known to be sneaky and untrustworthy. Yet Trump takes Putin's word they didn't meddle I the election? Putin's own European neighbors don't even trust him.

1. Can you prove Putin is dictator? Please explain me how can I understand I live in a dictatorship. I used to live in so-called free country, now I live in Russia under Putin's dictatorship but I like Russia more...much more. Maybe I don't understand something in this world?

2. Even if Putin was a dictator and he was a threat to USA don't you think talking to him is more useful than confronting? We say in Russia: bad peace is much better than good war. But I do understand you Americans do not no what war is, we know..

3. Russia is known... why don't we talk about how USA is known? The main reason of wars in 20-21 centuries all over the world; a country that cannot be trusted - 911, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria which were illegally bombed, NATO moving to east inspite of agreement not to do that; and many other untrustworthy and bloody actions.

4. USA's meddling in affairs of every (!) country on earth doesn't bother you, right? USA's organizing coups is ok too, right? USA's setting own people to other countries' governments is absolutely normal... and after that you say Russia's neighbors do not trust her?

So...what do the majority of Russians think of Putin..and the summit?

They're celebrating it. They're proud of their leader humiliating us stupid ass westerners.

Are you Russian? No? Then please do not respond since you don't KNOW.

WE know he's not Russian because most Russians are halfway intelligent and educated.

 

[toobfreak]

Obama allowed Putin to become the world leader he is today..
So everyone thank Obama for allowing Putin and Russia to become a world power again..

Trump surrendered America to Putin. Stop pretending you aren't rooting for Russia.

We don't need to root for them. We got you to do it for us!

 

[forkup]

Trump is so compromised that he will share that information with Putin, something he has done before.

Please provide proof for this. Thanks.

First let me start by saying that you either, purposely or accidental changed the premise of what I said. The 4 words before what you quoted were.

that they will fear

A fear doesn't need proof.
That part of the assertion would work regardless if I could prove it. I will however prove that the president did share intelligence of allies before.Revealed: The top secret Israeli intelligence Donald Trump gave away to Russia
Trump tweeted afterwarts.Trump Says He Has 'Absolute Right' To Share Intelligence With Russia
I hope this was of help.

 

[Ame®icano]

Your political position is fascist, and your location is Central Europe.

USA's policy is fascist in common. America uber alez is your moto. Your politicians often say about American supremacy and exceptionalism.
America started its history with ethnic cleansing, was built by slaves, even now racism is actual problem in American society.
After ww2 a lot of nazists lived and worked for the USA. While ww2 American business cooperates to Hitler. Some of your oligarchs raised on nazist money, Soros is one of them.

So it is very funny for me to hear you try to blame someone is fascist.

If you pay attention, all those things you mentioned were actually done by Democrats which today are pretty much the same thing you had before in CCCP.

 

[Ame®icano]

Eugene, your comments are worthless in this discussion. You are a Russian fascist, you and Putin are our enemies.

Funny.

The current communist is calling the former communist a fascist.

 

[Circe]

I don’t need to prove shit. It’s been documented and proven what kind of a leader Putin. If you can’t see that than you’re just another koolaid drinker.

No, you don't have to prove shit because your reality is your reality.

It just isn't anyone else's reality, unless they happen to agree with you. Were you under the impression that there is only one objective reality and you know exactly what it is?

 

[Ame®icano]

Cultural courtesy vs throwing out our national dignity in front of the world

And there we go, leftist talking about dignity...

 

[Circe]

Jake. Sorry to tell you but I'm on your left on most positions. What I'm not is someone who thinks someone's opinion is invalid just because I don't agree with them. It would behoove you to talk to people before judging them, otherwise you are just as guilty as your Republican friends of living in a bubble.

In what sense do you not judge someone else's differing opinion as not invalid?

Because everyone lives in their own reality bubble?

Because ---- well, of some other reason?

 

[Ame®icano]

From the sound of it; you shouldn’t vote again; you’re obviously too dumb to understand the significance of an American President taking the word of a foreign adversary with ICBMs pointed at your family over American patriots who serve—and risk their lives—in our intel corps.

Really dumbass…what are you smoking?

Let me get this straight, when you're talking about "American patriots who serve, and risk their lives, in our intel corps", you're talking about James Clapper, John Brennan, James Comey, Peter Strzok, Andrew McCabe... those patriots?

 

[Circe]

Everybody needs to calm the fuck down, we ain't pulling out of NATO and WW III is not imminent.

The sooner we pull out of NATO the happier I will be. I have real hope Trump will do just that.

And why not? WWII ended in 1945. Europe milks us for defense against 1) Germany, which we STILL occupy at great expense, and 2) Russia. I want them left after all this time to take care of themselves. Maybe the third time Germany decides they should own all of Europe, the Brits wouldn't decide to fight them by conscripting us.

It's time for a totally new geopolitical pattern.

 

[Ame®icano]

Takes one to know one I suppose.

I didn’t vote for the orange blob. That alone makes me miles smarter than people like you.

You forgot to say... you were told.

 

[Circe]

Let me get this straight, when you're talking about "American patriots who serve, and risk their lives, in our intel corps", you're talking about James Clapper, John Brennan, James Comey, Peter Strzok, Andrew McCabe... those patriots?

Right. Our FBI and CIA need to be cleaned out root and branch. Get rid of the lot of them and start clean. They've become totally corrupt and are very likely to mount a coup d'état against the government. That's what Comey was doing by first going after Hillary eleven days before the election, then going after Trump as soon as he was president ---- or even before. We got a Venezuela situation cooking here. Our intelligence services are crooked and dangerous, and that happens often in many countries: it's not new. It's predictable, if you don't watch them very carefully.

 

[forkup]

I don't see any at all. No one was killed, no damage to any American institutions, it wasn't "pearl harbor" or "kristalnacht". A real nothing burger.

Some of America's "intelligence" agencies and agents seem to have had their feelings hurt.

Who freaking cares, really? These "intelligence" people have been against President Trump came into office, you really can't blame anyone for not trusting someone who is trying to drum you out of office.


If the Republican Party allows the Democrats to run him out over nothing, I'll never vote again.

A sitting US president took the side of a murderous dictator over his own country's and forgein allies intelligence. That's the damage.

Russia is known to be sneaky and untrustworthy. Yet Trump takes Putin's word they didn't meddle I the election? Putin's own European neighbors don't even trust him.

I agree. He sure did.

"After my election I have more flexibility"

As he was leaning toward Medvedev in Seoul, Obama was overheard asking for time — “particularly with missile defense” — until he is in a better position politically to resolve such issues.https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-more-flexibility-russia/
Not providing context when trying to make a point is a sign of having no actual point to make.

Who is fact checking snopes? You?

Jake. Sorry to tell you but I'm on your left on most positions. What I'm not is someone who thinks someone's opinion is invalid just because I don't agree with them. It would behoove you to talk to people before judging them, otherwise you are just as guilty as your Republican friends of living in a bubble.

In what sense do you not judge someone else's differing opinion as not invalid?

Because everyone lives in their own reality bubble?

Because ---- well, of some other reason?

Of course everybody lives in their bubble. I wouldn't put reality with it though. I was talking to Eugene who is Russian, his perspective is therefor different then mine. What I perceive as the threat of Russia, he perceives as Russia defending itself against encroachment. Both positions have merit and both positions are also about perception. What I try personally (not always successfully), is try to take into account that my worldview is just that, MY worldview. My starting position is by default I'm right, that doesn't mean I don't try to at least try to judge the arguments on their merit. Jake started from I'm right and therefor everybody who disagrees in the slightest have to be Fascists. I don't like it and pushed back.

 

[Ame®icano]

You believe Trump is anti illegal immigration yet he hired them for his resorts.

A lie.

You only know he hired foreign labor because he requested visas for them.

You believe he is “america first”, yet when deciding where to make his cheap clothes at; he chose China

You won't find Trump's clothes where you shop, in Dollar General.

You believe he didn’t sleep with a porn actress; yet he paid the man who paid her hush money

You believe he did sleep with a porn actress because his lawyer paid her hush money.

You believe that there was no collision between his campaign and Russia yet his sons met with Russians and lied about it, his top advisor sung the praises of the hacker who hacked HRC’s e-mails, his AG met with the Russian Ambassador and lied about it, his NSC designate met with the Russians and lied about it.

There was no collision, and definitely no collusion with Russians. Have you ever wondered about how Natalia Veselnitskaya was let in, and who let her enter into United States?

Yes; you are stupid.

And you're very smart. You have brains you never used.

 

[forkup]

Let me get this straight, when you're talking about "American patriots who serve, and risk their lives, in our intel corps", you're talking about James Clapper, John Brennan, James Comey, Peter Strzok, Andrew McCabe... those patriots?

Right. Our FBI and CIA need to be cleaned out root and branch. Get rid of the lot of them and start clean. They've become totally corrupt and are very likely to mount a coup d'état against the government. That's what Comey was doing by first going after Hillary eleven days before the election, then going after Trump as soon as he was president ---- or even before. We got a Venezuela situation cooking here. Our intelligence services are crooked and dangerous, and that happens often in many countries: it's not new. It's predictable, if you don't watch them very carefully.

He didn't go after anybody. He was charged with doing investigations into possible crimes and did so. The problem is those investigations coincided with an election year, which prompted him to conduct them in a way that was not free of political considerations. It wasn't malice it was bad judgment. Mueller wasn't appointed over spite. It was because Trump went on camera and said he fired Comey because he didn't like an investigation he was conducting. Giving the DOJ no choice but to let the investigation be handled by someone outside the regular chain. The CIA and FBI and NSA and all those other acronyms didn't go after Trump. they went for the Russians interfering with the elections and the trail let them to the Trump orbit

 

[Circe]

Of course everybody lives in their bubble. I wouldn't put reality with it though. I was talking to Eugene who is Russian, his perspective is therefor different then mine. What I perceive as the threat of Russia, he perceives as Russia defending itself against encroachment. Both positions have merit and both positions are also about perception. What I try personally (not always successfully), is try to take into account that my worldview is just that, MY worldview. My starting position is by default I'm right, that doesn't mean I don't try to at least try to judge the arguments on their merit. Jake started from I'm right and therefor everybody who disagrees in the slightest have to be Fascists. I don't like it and pushed back.

I've gone over to the postmodern reality bubbles idea -- everything everyone says is true, for them and anyone who agrees with them. (Thaddeus Golas, Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment, 1972)

I think you are saying you are still working from the concept of objective truth, and you look at other's ideas to see if they might have a better slant on some particulars of that truth, if you can get any closer to the One Reality from their ideas.

Thanx for your answer! Very interesting.

 

[Circe]

He didn't go after anybody. He was charged with doing investigations into possible crimes and did so. The problem is those investigations coincided with an election year, which prompted him to conduct them in a way that was not free of political considerations. It wasn't malice it was bad judgment. Mueller wasn't appointed over spite. It was because Trump went on camera and said he fired Comey because he didn't like an investigation he was conducting. Giving the DOJ no choice but to let the investigation be handled by someone outside the regular chain. The CIA and FBI and NSA and all those other acronyms didn't go after Trump. they went for the Russians interfering with the elections and the trail let them to the Trump orbit

You certainly have a far more tolerant view of Comey than I do!

No, I'm going with his trying for a coup d'état. It's all there, after all --- his highly effective October Surprise against Hillary after he reworked the failed July attack against her so that it had more sex in it for better public focus. And then going after Trump.

You know how they say only tall people can be president? (I went to a school long ago whose women presidents were WAAAY above the mean in height, freakishly so, poor things. Gives one to think.) Well, Comey went after Hillary, he went after Trump, and he's 6'8". I think he wanted to be president, and it was not unrealistic: coups d'état are second only to military takeovers in political breakups of nations. George H.W. Bush rose to the presidency from the CIA. I don't know why people are so sure "it can't happen here." Guess they never read about the plot for a coup d'état exposed by Gen. Smedley Darlington Butler (the expected figurehead of a shadowy group rumored to include Henry Ford) during the 1930s.

Since at least the 1960s, the group out of power has always gone after the group in power hammer and tongs, no holds barred, and it's dangerously spectacular now, IMO. The government of this country fell apart in the 1700s, in the 1800s, held together despite two iffy periods in the 1930s and the 1960s; IMO this century will see a breakup. My money is on either a secession crisis as in 1860 or a coup d'état. There are other possibilities, but this determination of the outs to destroy and eliminate the elected president leads me to expect a coup, and then a secession crisis: that's what happened last time. Lincoln was literally not even on the ballot in 11 states of the South. Almost no one knows that anymore! No wonder they seceded.

 

[forkup]

He didn't go after anybody. He was charged with doing investigations into possible crimes and did so. The problem is those investigations coincided with an election year, which prompted him to conduct them in a way that was not free of political considerations. It wasn't malice it was bad judgment. Mueller wasn't appointed over spite. It was because Trump went on camera and said he fired Comey because he didn't like an investigation he was conducting. Giving the DOJ no choice but to let the investigation be handled by someone outside the regular chain. The CIA and FBI and NSA and all those other acronyms didn't go after Trump. they went for the Russians interfering with the elections and the trail let them to the Trump orbit

You certainly have a far more tolerant view of Comey than I do!

No, I'm going with his trying for a coup d'état. It's all there, after all --- his highly effective October Surprise against Hillary after he reworked the failed July attack against her so that it had more sex in it for better public focus. And then going after Trump.

You know how they say only tall people can be president? (I went to a school long ago whose women presidents were WAAAY above the mean in height, freakishly so, poor things. Gives one to think.) Well, Comey went after Hillary, he went after Trump, and he's 6'8". I think he wanted to be president, and it was not unrealistic: coups d'état are second only to military takeovers in political breakups of nations. George H.W. Bush rose to the presidency from the CIA. I don't know why people are so sure "it can't happen here." Guess they never read about the plot for a coup d'état exposed by Gen. Smedley Darlington Butler (the expected figurehead of a shadowy group rumored to include Henry Ford) during the 1930s.

Since at least the 1960s, the group out of power has always gone after the group in power hammer and tongs, no holds barred, and it's dangerously spectacular now, IMO. The government of this country fell apart in the 1700s, in the 1800s, held together despite two iffy periods in the 1930s and the 1960s; IMO this century will see a breakup. My money is on either a secession crisis as in 1860 or a coup d'état. There are other possibilities, but this determination of the outs to destroy and eliminate the elected president leads me to expect a coup, and then a secession crisis: that's what happened last time. Lincoln was literally not even on the ballot in 11 states of the South. Almost no one knows that anymore! No wonder they seceded.

My view of Comey, a view I've held since he was conducting the email investigation hasn't changed, which probably makes me a minority of 1 on this board. It's a view that's remarkable similar with the rational he gave himself over his conduct. More then a year before he even gave that rational. The difference being that I changed his, " I did it because I was a patriot." with " I did it because I was a bureaucrat and tried to cover the ass of me and the agency I represent." It's a view I came to by looking at Comey's perspective.

I always looked at it, as Comey being a bureaucrat who foremost protects his agency. He didn't want to give the Republicans the chance to call foul by releasing the information after the elections. So he released it before the elections never figuring that Trump would win. If Clinton would have won, she more then likely would have moved right past anything to do with the e mail investigation and Comey would have been able to claim he released all relevant information the moment he got it. And in that way prevent the FBI being accused of playing politics.

I'm a skeptic of all conspiracy theories. The more elaborate the conspiracy the more skeptical I become and I'm an ardent believer in Occam's razor. For your conspiracy theory to work. Thousands of people over all government institution have to work together to some nefarious goal. My view needs only 1 person doing something in accordance with the natural behavior of a FBI director.
It even falls flat on it's own merit. Comey succeeds in bringing down Hillary and Trump? Then what? that still doesn't brings him any closer to the Presidency. He wasn't nearly close enough in the line of succession.