What if there had been no slaves in America?

[Syriusly]

And? Even if that is true- I have already refuted your claim that building railroads doesn't require skilled craftsmen.

I said the SLAVES werent skilled craftsmen. Laying down railroad tracks requires no skill, just strength and cardio.

Building bridges was always a white guys job. Feel free to prove me wrong by posting a link to any railroad bridge designed and built by a slave. If you can't do that, you've lost this debate.

Godboy 1)

Slaves werent builders. They had no skills on that level. They were laborers at best and there were very few slaves around anyway.
Godboy 2)

Building railroads doesn't require skilled craftsmen. It was all about hard labor.

Godboy 3)


The men who laid the tracks were low skilled workers who had ZERO experience when they were hired. Anyone could do that job.


Godboy 4)

I said the SLAVES werent skilled craftsmen. Laying down railroad tracks requires no skill, just strength and cardio.

Building bridges was always a white guys job. Feel free to prove me wrong by posting a link to any railroad bridge designed and built by a slave. If you can't do that, you've lost this debate.

LOL- so far I have proven you wrong specifically- and you have not provided a thin dime worth of facts to support your claims.

I already posted twice documents which showed that African American slaves included skilled craftsmen- including blacksmiths, bricklayers, guns-smiths, tinsmiths, cartwrights- and of course you ignored those facts- so now you want me to prove that these same skilled workers were involved with building the railroads in the South?

Did U.S. Railroads Own Slaves–How Many? | William G. Thomas III

A careful examination of railroad annual reports from the South begins to reveal the scale and diversity of the experience. Most of the slave labor on southern railroads was hired or rented from local slaveholders to grade the tracks. Enslaved women and children were also forced to work on the railroads, running wheelbarrows, moving dirt, cooking, picking up stones, and shoveling. Some skilled slaves, especially blacksmiths, were hired as well on these construction crews.

NA, LS 10-31L-62
Here is a related account- of payments for the services of
For Services of Slave laborers repairing C. S. Locomotives & Cars during the month of October/62

Here is a list of slaves working on the rairoads- including carpenters, painters, and bridge workers.
Virginia & Tennessee Railroad Employees

Been Workin' on the Railroad

Ballton’s experience on the railroad was not unusual. Slavery is often thought of as a primarily agricultural phenomenon, but thousands of enslaved blacks worked on the railroads right up to and during the Civil War, grading lines, building bridges and blasting tunnels. They hauled timber, cut wood and shoveled dirt and stone. Skilled slaves, especially blacksmiths, stone masons and carpenters, worked on the railroads too.

Here is my favorite......boooyaaah
America's Covered Bridges

View attachment 148240

So "SOME slave blacksmiths" built America? I promise you, for every 100 blacksmiths, there was 1 black slave blacksmith, and even that is being generous.

Pointing out exceptions isn't going to help your case. I'm sure there were SOME slave writers as well, but you can hardly say that slaves were responsible for the great literature of that time period.

LOL- pointing out the exceptions shows that your statements- and here i am glad to remind you of them- were false.

Slaves werent builders. They had no skills on that level. They were laborers at best and there were very few slaves around anyway.

(this is one of my favorites- since both parts have been proven wrong- a) that 'they had no skills on that level- proven wrong. And that there were 'very few slaves around anyway'- again proven wrong.
Godboy 2)

Building railroads doesn't require skilled craftsmen. It was all about hard labor.

(Again proven wrong- since I have shown the skilled craftsmen used for building railroads)

Godboy 4)

I said the SLAVES werent skilled craftsmen. Laying down railroad tracks requires no skill, just strength and cardio.

(And I have shown that some slaves were indeed skilled craftsmen- you are just wrong- and ignorant.- and determined to stay so)

Um, let's settle down with this "blacksmithing is a super technical job" stuff. They weren't creating masterworks; they made nails, railroad spikes, shovels and other bullshit like that.

LOL- first of all I never claimed that 'blacksmithing is a super technical job"- I pointed out that African American slaves included skilled craftsman- which you repeatedly claimed that they were not.

And by the technological standards of the day- blacksmiths were skilled craftsmen.

Measuring Worth - Measuring the Value of a Slave

Those who have researched slave prices have discovered that a large number of additional variables went into the determination of the price of any particular slave at a particular point in time. A premium was paid if the slave was an artisan -- particularly a blacksmith (+55%), a carpenter (+45%), a cook (+20%), or possessed other domestic skills

 

[Markle]

America's.

None of us alive are responsible for any slavery in America- but our country certainly was.

Just as I am proud of the American Constitution- as an American- I also recognize that our history of slavery is a stain on our past.

That doesn't mean we are a bad country- but it does mean we should recognize our accomplishments and learn from our mistakes.

I don't view it as a stain on our past. At the time, there was nothing unusual about slavery and it was common around the world. In fact, we were the largest country that made serious changes in what was, until then, a common practice.

Had there not been slavery in the United States, where would those who claim to be heirs of slaves, be today?

 

[Syriusly]

And? Even if that is true- I have already refuted your claim that building railroads doesn't require skilled craftsmen.

I said the SLAVES werent skilled craftsmen. Laying down railroad tracks requires no skill, just strength and cardio.

Building bridges was always a white guys job. Feel free to prove me wrong by posting a link to any railroad bridge designed and built by a slave. If you can't do that, you've lost this debate.

Slaves were 40 percent of the workforce in the south
I doubt many bridges went up without slave labor

Yes, unskilled slave labor.

Unless you have a few million of these stories, it won't support the argument that slaves built America.

All it takes is one of these to support the argument that slaves were part of building America.

Of course slaves didn't 'build' America- many parts of "America" had virtually no slaves, and many parts had very few slaves.

But in the South- yes- slaves built much of the South- just as the Chinese built most of the Railroad from the West, and the Irish built much of the Railroad coming from the East.

I have given you the facts.
I have proven that your claims that slaves were never skilled enough to be skilled craftsmen to be false.
I have proven that your claim that no slaves built bridges was false.

So I have led you to water of the facts. I can't make you believe the facts rather than your fantasy version of history.

 

[Godboy]

I said the SLAVES werent skilled craftsmen. Laying down railroad tracks requires no skill, just strength and cardio.

Building bridges was always a white guys job. Feel free to prove me wrong by posting a link to any railroad bridge designed and built by a slave. If you can't do that, you've lost this debate.

Godboy 1)

Slaves werent builders. They had no skills on that level. They were laborers at best and there were very few slaves around anyway.
Godboy 2)

Building railroads doesn't require skilled craftsmen. It was all about hard labor.

Godboy 3)


The men who laid the tracks were low skilled workers who had ZERO experience when they were hired. Anyone could do that job.


Godboy 4)

I said the SLAVES werent skilled craftsmen. Laying down railroad tracks requires no skill, just strength and cardio.

Building bridges was always a white guys job. Feel free to prove me wrong by posting a link to any railroad bridge designed and built by a slave. If you can't do that, you've lost this debate.

LOL- so far I have proven you wrong specifically- and you have not provided a thin dime worth of facts to support your claims.

I already posted twice documents which showed that African American slaves included skilled craftsmen- including blacksmiths, bricklayers, guns-smiths, tinsmiths, cartwrights- and of course you ignored those facts- so now you want me to prove that these same skilled workers were involved with building the railroads in the South?

Did U.S. Railroads Own Slaves–How Many? | William G. Thomas III

A careful examination of railroad annual reports from the South begins to reveal the scale and diversity of the experience. Most of the slave labor on southern railroads was hired or rented from local slaveholders to grade the tracks. Enslaved women and children were also forced to work on the railroads, running wheelbarrows, moving dirt, cooking, picking up stones, and shoveling. Some skilled slaves, especially blacksmiths, were hired as well on these construction crews.

NA, LS 10-31L-62
Here is a related account- of payments for the services of
For Services of Slave laborers repairing C. S. Locomotives & Cars during the month of October/62

Here is a list of slaves working on the rairoads- including carpenters, painters, and bridge workers.
Virginia & Tennessee Railroad Employees

Been Workin' on the Railroad

Ballton’s experience on the railroad was not unusual. Slavery is often thought of as a primarily agricultural phenomenon, but thousands of enslaved blacks worked on the railroads right up to and during the Civil War, grading lines, building bridges and blasting tunnels. They hauled timber, cut wood and shoveled dirt and stone. Skilled slaves, especially blacksmiths, stone masons and carpenters, worked on the railroads too.

Here is my favorite......boooyaaah
America's Covered Bridges

View attachment 148240

So "SOME slave blacksmiths" built America? I promise you, for every 100 blacksmiths, there was 1 black slave blacksmith, and even that is being generous.

Pointing out exceptions isn't going to help your case. I'm sure there were SOME slave writers as well, but you can hardly say that slaves were responsible for the great literature of that time period.

LOL- pointing out the exceptions shows that your statements- and here i am glad to remind you of them- were false.

Slaves werent builders. They had no skills on that level. They were laborers at best and there were very few slaves around anyway.

(this is one of my favorites- since both parts have been proven wrong- a) that 'they had no skills on that level- proven wrong. And that there were 'very few slaves around anyway'- again proven wrong.
Godboy 2)

Building railroads doesn't require skilled craftsmen. It was all about hard labor.

(Again proven wrong- since I have shown the skilled craftsmen used for building railroads)

Godboy 4)

I said the SLAVES werent skilled craftsmen. Laying down railroad tracks requires no skill, just strength and cardio.

(And I have shown that some slaves were indeed skilled craftsmen- you are just wrong- and ignorant.- and determined to stay so)

Um, let's settle down with this "blacksmithing is a super technical job" stuff. They weren't creating masterworks; they made nails, railroad spikes, shovels and other bullshit like that.

LOL- first of all I never claimed that 'blacksmithing is a super technical job"- I pointed out that African American slaves included skilled craftsman- which you repeatedly claimed that they were not.

And by the technological standards of the day- blacksmiths were skilled craftsmen.

Measuring Worth - Measuring the Value of a Slave

Those who have researched slave prices have discovered that a large number of additional variables went into the determination of the price of any particular slave at a particular point in time. A premium was paid if the slave was an artisan -- particularly a blacksmith (+55%), a carpenter (+45%), a cook (+20%), or possessed other domestic skills

Slaves were NOT skilled craftsmen. Pointing out the exceptions won't ever change that.

 

[Syriusly]

America's.

None of us alive are responsible for any slavery in America- but our country certainly was.

Just as I am proud of the American Constitution- as an American- I also recognize that our history of slavery is a stain on our past.

That doesn't mean we are a bad country- but it does mean we should recognize our accomplishments and learn from our mistakes.

I don't view it as a stain on our past. At the time, there was nothing unusual about slavery and it was common around the world. In fact, we were the largest country that made serious changes in what was, until then, a common practice.

No- actually by the time the United States abolished slavery- at great cost and resistance, much of Europe- where most of us came from- had already abolished slavery.

Far from being the largest country- Great Britain- at that time at arguably the height of its imperial glory- abolished slavery throughout its empire in 1833.

As I said before- this doesn't mean that the United States is a bad country- all countries have done things we would not be proud of now. But if you want to be proud of America's accomplishments from 1776-1865- and we had many- it is hypocritical not to feel just the opposite for our faults- such as the stain of slavery.

 

[Syriusly]

Godboy 1)

Slaves werent builders. They had no skills on that level. They were laborers at best and there were very few slaves around anyway.
Godboy 2)

Building railroads doesn't require skilled craftsmen. It was all about hard labor.

Godboy 3)


The men who laid the tracks were low skilled workers who had ZERO experience when they were hired. Anyone could do that job.


Godboy 4)

I said the SLAVES werent skilled craftsmen. Laying down railroad tracks requires no skill, just strength and cardio.

Building bridges was always a white guys job. Feel free to prove me wrong by posting a link to any railroad bridge designed and built by a slave. If you can't do that, you've lost this debate.

LOL- so far I have proven you wrong specifically- and you have not provided a thin dime worth of facts to support your claims.

I already posted twice documents which showed that African American slaves included skilled craftsmen- including blacksmiths, bricklayers, guns-smiths, tinsmiths, cartwrights- and of course you ignored those facts- so now you want me to prove that these same skilled workers were involved with building the railroads in the South?

Did U.S. Railroads Own Slaves–How Many? | William G. Thomas III

A careful examination of railroad annual reports from the South begins to reveal the scale and diversity of the experience. Most of the slave labor on southern railroads was hired or rented from local slaveholders to grade the tracks. Enslaved women and children were also forced to work on the railroads, running wheelbarrows, moving dirt, cooking, picking up stones, and shoveling. Some skilled slaves, especially blacksmiths, were hired as well on these construction crews.

NA, LS 10-31L-62
Here is a related account- of payments for the services of
For Services of Slave laborers repairing C. S. Locomotives & Cars during the month of October/62

Here is a list of slaves working on the rairoads- including carpenters, painters, and bridge workers.
Virginia & Tennessee Railroad Employees

Been Workin' on the Railroad

Ballton’s experience on the railroad was not unusual. Slavery is often thought of as a primarily agricultural phenomenon, but thousands of enslaved blacks worked on the railroads right up to and during the Civil War, grading lines, building bridges and blasting tunnels. They hauled timber, cut wood and shoveled dirt and stone. Skilled slaves, especially blacksmiths, stone masons and carpenters, worked on the railroads too.

Here is my favorite......boooyaaah
America's Covered Bridges

View attachment 148240

So "SOME slave blacksmiths" built America? I promise you, for every 100 blacksmiths, there was 1 black slave blacksmith, and even that is being generous.

Pointing out exceptions isn't going to help your case. I'm sure there were SOME slave writers as well, but you can hardly say that slaves were responsible for the great literature of that time period.

LOL- pointing out the exceptions shows that your statements- and here i am glad to remind you of them- were false.

Slaves werent builders. They had no skills on that level. They were laborers at best and there were very few slaves around anyway.

(this is one of my favorites- since both parts have been proven wrong- a) that 'they had no skills on that level- proven wrong. And that there were 'very few slaves around anyway'- again proven wrong.
Godboy 2)

Building railroads doesn't require skilled craftsmen. It was all about hard labor.

(Again proven wrong- since I have shown the skilled craftsmen used for building railroads)

Godboy 4)

I said the SLAVES werent skilled craftsmen. Laying down railroad tracks requires no skill, just strength and cardio.

(And I have shown that some slaves were indeed skilled craftsmen- you are just wrong- and ignorant.- and determined to stay so)

Um, let's settle down with this "blacksmithing is a super technical job" stuff. They weren't creating masterworks; they made nails, railroad spikes, shovels and other bullshit like that.

LOL- first of all I never claimed that 'blacksmithing is a super technical job"- I pointed out that African American slaves included skilled craftsman- which you repeatedly claimed that they were not.

And by the technological standards of the day- blacksmiths were skilled craftsmen.

Measuring Worth - Measuring the Value of a Slave

Those who have researched slave prices have discovered that a large number of additional variables went into the determination of the price of any particular slave at a particular point in time. A premium was paid if the slave was an artisan -- particularly a blacksmith (+55%), a carpenter (+45%), a cook (+20%), or possessed other domestic skills

Slaves were NOT skilled craftsmen. Pointing out the exceptions won't ever change that.

Okay- then Americans were not skilled craftsmen.

Because by that standard- most Americans were not skilled craftsmen.

 

[Godboy]

So "SOME slave blacksmiths" built America? I promise you, for every 100 blacksmiths, there was 1 black slave blacksmith, and even that is being generous.

Pointing out exceptions isn't going to help your case. I'm sure there were SOME slave writers as well, but you can hardly say that slaves were responsible for the great literature of that time period.

LOL- pointing out the exceptions shows that your statements- and here i am glad to remind you of them- were false.

Slaves werent builders. They had no skills on that level. They were laborers at best and there were very few slaves around anyway.

(this is one of my favorites- since both parts have been proven wrong- a) that 'they had no skills on that level- proven wrong. And that there were 'very few slaves around anyway'- again proven wrong.
Godboy 2)

Building railroads doesn't require skilled craftsmen. It was all about hard labor.

(Again proven wrong- since I have shown the skilled craftsmen used for building railroads)

Godboy 4)

I said the SLAVES werent skilled craftsmen. Laying down railroad tracks requires no skill, just strength and cardio.

(And I have shown that some slaves were indeed skilled craftsmen- you are just wrong- and ignorant.- and determined to stay so)

Um, let's settle down with this "blacksmithing is a super technical job" stuff. They weren't creating masterworks; they made nails, railroad spikes, shovels and other bullshit like that.

LOL- first of all I never claimed that 'blacksmithing is a super technical job"- I pointed out that African American slaves included skilled craftsman- which you repeatedly claimed that they were not.

And by the technological standards of the day- blacksmiths were skilled craftsmen.

Measuring Worth - Measuring the Value of a Slave

Those who have researched slave prices have discovered that a large number of additional variables went into the determination of the price of any particular slave at a particular point in time. A premium was paid if the slave was an artisan -- particularly a blacksmith (+55%), a carpenter (+45%), a cook (+20%), or possessed other domestic skills

Slaves were NOT skilled craftsmen. Pointing out the exceptions won't ever change that.

Okay- then Americans were not skilled craftsmen.

Because by that standard- most Americans were not skilled craftsmen.

Your silly debate on semantics is getting boring. Do you have any evidence that "slaves built America"? If not, quit wasting my time.

 

[Syriusly]

LOL- pointing out the exceptions shows that your statements- and here i am glad to remind you of them- were false.

Slaves werent builders. They had no skills on that level. They were laborers at best and there were very few slaves around anyway.

(this is one of my favorites- since both parts have been proven wrong- a) that 'they had no skills on that level- proven wrong. And that there were 'very few slaves around anyway'- again proven wrong.
Godboy 2)

Building railroads doesn't require skilled craftsmen. It was all about hard labor.

(Again proven wrong- since I have shown the skilled craftsmen used for building railroads)

Godboy 4)

I said the SLAVES werent skilled craftsmen. Laying down railroad tracks requires no skill, just strength and cardio.

(And I have shown that some slaves were indeed skilled craftsmen- you are just wrong- and ignorant.- and determined to stay so)

Um, let's settle down with this "blacksmithing is a super technical job" stuff. They weren't creating masterworks; they made nails, railroad spikes, shovels and other bullshit like that.

LOL- first of all I never claimed that 'blacksmithing is a super technical job"- I pointed out that African American slaves included skilled craftsman- which you repeatedly claimed that they were not.

And by the technological standards of the day- blacksmiths were skilled craftsmen.

Measuring Worth - Measuring the Value of a Slave

Those who have researched slave prices have discovered that a large number of additional variables went into the determination of the price of any particular slave at a particular point in time. A premium was paid if the slave was an artisan -- particularly a blacksmith (+55%), a carpenter (+45%), a cook (+20%), or possessed other domestic skills

Slaves were NOT skilled craftsmen. Pointing out the exceptions won't ever change that.

Okay- then Americans were not skilled craftsmen.

Because by that standard- most Americans were not skilled craftsmen.

Your silly debate on semantics is getting boring. Do you have any evidence that "slaves built America"? If not, quit wasting my time.

All it takes is one of these to support the argument that slaves were part of building America.

Of course slaves didn't 'build' America- many parts of "America" had virtually no slaves, and many parts had very few slaves.

But in the South- yes- slaves built much of the South- just as the Chinese built most of the Railroad from the West, and the Irish built much of the Railroad coming from the East.

I have given you the facts.
I have proven that your claims that slaves were never skilled enough to be skilled craftsmen to be false.
I have proven that your claim that no slaves built bridges was false.

So I have led you to water of the facts. I can't make you believe the facts rather than your fantasy version of history.

 

[Godboy]

Um, let's settle down with this "blacksmithing is a super technical job" stuff. They weren't creating masterworks; they made nails, railroad spikes, shovels and other bullshit like that.

LOL- first of all I never claimed that 'blacksmithing is a super technical job"- I pointed out that African American slaves included skilled craftsman- which you repeatedly claimed that they were not.

And by the technological standards of the day- blacksmiths were skilled craftsmen.

Measuring Worth - Measuring the Value of a Slave

Those who have researched slave prices have discovered that a large number of additional variables went into the determination of the price of any particular slave at a particular point in time. A premium was paid if the slave was an artisan -- particularly a blacksmith (+55%), a carpenter (+45%), a cook (+20%), or possessed other domestic skills

Slaves were NOT skilled craftsmen. Pointing out the exceptions won't ever change that.

Okay- then Americans were not skilled craftsmen.

Because by that standard- most Americans were not skilled craftsmen.

Your silly debate on semantics is getting boring. Do you have any evidence that "slaves built America"? If not, quit wasting my time.

All it takes is one of these to support the argument that slaves were part of building America.

Of course slaves didn't 'build' America- many parts of "America" had virtually no slaves, and many parts had very few slaves.

But in the South- yes- slaves built much of the South- just as the Chinese built most of the Railroad from the West, and the Irish built much of the Railroad coming from the East.

I have given you the facts.
I have proven that your claims that slaves were never skilled enough to be skilled craftsmen to be false.
I have proven that your claim that no slaves built bridges was false.

So I have led you to water of the facts. I can't make you believe the facts rather than your fantasy version of history.

Still pointing out the exceptions that we all know exist? You have quite a talent for pointing out the obvious.

 

[Syriusly]

LOL- first of all I never claimed that 'blacksmithing is a super technical job"- I pointed out that African American slaves included skilled craftsman- which you repeatedly claimed that they were not.

And by the technological standards of the day- blacksmiths were skilled craftsmen.

Measuring Worth - Measuring the Value of a Slave

Those who have researched slave prices have discovered that a large number of additional variables went into the determination of the price of any particular slave at a particular point in time. A premium was paid if the slave was an artisan -- particularly a blacksmith (+55%), a carpenter (+45%), a cook (+20%), or possessed other domestic skills

Slaves were NOT skilled craftsmen. Pointing out the exceptions won't ever change that.

Okay- then Americans were not skilled craftsmen.

Because by that standard- most Americans were not skilled craftsmen.

Your silly debate on semantics is getting boring. Do you have any evidence that "slaves built America"? If not, quit wasting my time.

All it takes is one of these to support the argument that slaves were part of building America.

Of course slaves didn't 'build' America- many parts of "America" had virtually no slaves, and many parts had very few slaves.

But in the South- yes- slaves built much of the South- just as the Chinese built most of the Railroad from the West, and the Irish built much of the Railroad coming from the East.

I have given you the facts.
I have proven that your claims that slaves were never skilled enough to be skilled craftsmen to be false.
I have proven that your claim that no slaves built bridges was false.

So I have led you to water of the facts. I can't make you believe the facts rather than your fantasy version of history.

Still pointing out the exceptions that we all know exist? You have quite a talent for pointing out the obvious.

The differences between you and myself is that you just make bullshit unsubstantiated claims.

I provide facts that disprove your bullshit claims.

 

[Godboy]

Slaves were NOT skilled craftsmen. Pointing out the exceptions won't ever change that.

Okay- then Americans were not skilled craftsmen.

Because by that standard- most Americans were not skilled craftsmen.

Your silly debate on semantics is getting boring. Do you have any evidence that "slaves built America"? If not, quit wasting my time.

All it takes is one of these to support the argument that slaves were part of building America.

Of course slaves didn't 'build' America- many parts of "America" had virtually no slaves, and many parts had very few slaves.

But in the South- yes- slaves built much of the South- just as the Chinese built most of the Railroad from the West, and the Irish built much of the Railroad coming from the East.

I have given you the facts.
I have proven that your claims that slaves were never skilled enough to be skilled craftsmen to be false.
I have proven that your claim that no slaves built bridges was false.

So I have led you to water of the facts. I can't make you believe the facts rather than your fantasy version of history.

Still pointing out the exceptions that we all know exist? You have quite a talent for pointing out the obvious.

The differences between you and myself is that you just make bullshit unsubstantiated claims.

I provide facts that disprove your bullshit claims.

You provided nothing that suggests slaves built this nation.

 

[Markle]

What a noble history you are so proud of- the Constitutional compromise met to convince the Southern Slave holder states to sign off on the Constitution writing protections into the Constitution for slavery- and counting slaves as 2/3 of a person.

As you know, it was the Southern States who wanted to count the slaves as a whole person. The Northern States position was that the slaves were property, no different than a horse of cow and should not be counted at all. The compromise was 2/3 of a person.

 

[Markle]

What if there had been no slaves in America?

Would blacks still claim to be oppressed? Would we have race baiters?

Interesting "what if"...I expect America would have grown at a slower pace and if we are talking the kidnapping of blacks from Africa.....Africa would have stayed a stronger place and probably would have been able to drive off any colonization attempts by Europeans.

The OP never did answer my question about what he means by "America".

The vast majority of African slaves went to Brazil and the Caribbean. If he's suggesting what if the US hadn't had slaves but Brazil and the West Indies and Central America did, then that sets up one kind of economic contrast. Plus there are vast parts of what is now the US that used to be Spanish or French territory. Would they have had their slavery going on, and then been forced to cease once they became part of the US?

Or is he asking what if African slaves had never been brought to ANY part of America? Because that opens up an entirely different scenario.

I'm starting to wonder if the OP (and a few others) are aware that African slavery was far more widespread than just this country. You can't really separate one out of the whole and ask a workable question.

I thought it was self-explanatory. Personally, I've not seen many threads here about slavery in South America or Canada.

 

[Markle]

No image shows up but whatever it was supposed to be has to be a photoshop since Byrd quit the Klan before he ever ran for office.

Sorry about the image, not sure why I know you'd have loved it!

Of course, he quit the Ku Klux Klan before he ran for office, he wanted the black vote.

 

[Markle]

Your silly debate on semantics is getting boring. Do you have any evidence that "slaves built America"? If not, quit wasting my time.

That's all poor Syriously has, semantics. Either that or whining.

 

[Pogo]

What a noble history you are so proud of- the Constitutional compromise met to convince the Southern Slave holder states to sign off on the Constitution writing protections into the Constitution for slavery- and counting slaves as 2/3 of a person.

As you know, it was the Southern States who wanted to count the slaves as a whole person. The Northern States position was that the slaves were property, no different than a horse of cow and should not be counted at all. The compromise was 2/3 of a person.

Three-fifths actually. We go over this every four years with the history of the Electrical College.

What if there had been no slaves in America?

Would blacks still claim to be oppressed? Would we have race baiters?

Interesting "what if"...I expect America would have grown at a slower pace and if we are talking the kidnapping of blacks from Africa.....Africa would have stayed a stronger place and probably would have been able to drive off any colonization attempts by Europeans.

The OP never did answer my question about what he means by "America".

The vast majority of African slaves went to Brazil and the Caribbean. If he's suggesting what if the US hadn't had slaves but Brazil and the West Indies and Central America did, then that sets up one kind of economic contrast. Plus there are vast parts of what is now the US that used to be Spanish or French territory. Would they have had their slavery going on, and then been forced to cease once they became part of the US?

Or is he asking what if African slaves had never been brought to ANY part of America? Because that opens up an entirely different scenario.

I'm starting to wonder if the OP (and a few others) are aware that African slavery was far more widespread than just this country. You can't really separate one out of the whole and ask a workable question.

I thought it was self-explanatory. Personally, I've not seen many threads here about slavery in South America or Canada.

Actually it isn't self-explanatory at all, and I can't even tell which way it's supposed to be "self-explanatory".

If it means only the US, then you have a fledgling country trying to get off the ground competing economically with Brazil and Cuba and Hispaniola and Jamaica, etc, all of which are using slave labor and cleaning up. That creates a whole different economy. Then you have the question of slaves in, say, the Louisiana Purchase. What happens to them? And then the same question with the territory from the Mexican War. And the acquisition of Spanish Florida.

If it means all of America, both continents, then the entire histories of not just the US but those of Brazil, Cuba, Hispaniola, Jamaica, Venezuela, Colombia, Belize, etc etc. all become far different. That becomes an even more complex question.

It's impossible to just pull one country out of that lot, subtract its slavery history, and pretend that the use of slavery all around it would not have had a major influence on, at the very least, the cherrypicked country's economy and eventual power. Does Brazil then become the dominant power in the Americas? It's already using slave labor for sugar -- does it expand into King Cotton and become richer meeting world demand? Does it then declare "Manifest Destiny" and take over Argentina and Peru? Is that what the OP wants to explore? We'll never know since that question was never clarified.

 

[Pogo]

No image shows up but whatever it was supposed to be has to be a photoshop since Byrd quit the Klan before he ever ran for office.

Sorry about the image, not sure why I know you'd have loved it!

Of course, he quit the Ku Klux Klan before he ran for office, he wanted the black vote.

Still no image. But there wasn't a whooooole lot of "black vote" in West Virginia. Still isn't.

The Klan was falling out of favor by then (early 40s). Fifteen years earlier it was powerful enough that it was dangerous for a politician to offer any resistance to it. Cooperating with it OTOH could get you elected. As always -- temporal context.

 

[cnelsen]

That doesn't diminish our own complicity in slavery in America.

Define "our".

America's.

None of us alive are responsible for any slavery in America- but our country certainly was.

Just as I am proud of the American Constitution- as an American- I also recognize that our history of slavery is a stain on our past.

That doesn't mean we are a bad country- but it does mean we should recognize our accomplishments and learn from our mistakes.

The United States should feel very proud of our history regarding slavery. It is a noble history.

......It would have probably worked, too, if not for the presence of the Jew, who has worked tirelessly to promote racial hatred in this country. So fuck you.

LOL- you asshole racists- its always blame the Jews- and be proud of our history of slavery.

What a noble history you are so proud of- the Constitutional compromise met to convince the Southern Slave holder states to sign off on the Constitution writing protections into the Constitution for slavery- and counting slaves as 2/3 of a person.

And lets not forget the laws in the United States which permitted the selling of men, women and children- children from their mothers, children sold to brothels to service our fellow Americans.

Proud indeed.

And it all would have worked too(according to you)- if it wasn't for those darned Jews!

No, you vicious white-hater, what would have worked was our attempt a forging a multi-racial nation, maybe, but the Jews sabotaged that. Jews want a race war.

 

[cnelsen]

good chance of white blood because the women were often raped and impregnated by their masters.

Yes, rape, because women are never attracted to power. Jewish Hollywood lies.

Yes- rape.

Because despite the lies of asshole bigots like you- it is rape when Master tells his slave to spread her legs.

Unless master is seduced, you a-historical white-hating prick.

 

[cnelsen]

built on the backs of free enslaved labor, gave the country the resources to run the whole "Manifest Destiny" gig, which in turn provided more resources.

You are historically illiterate. The reason the south was so backward and undeveloped was because of slavery. Slavery was an economic sinkhole. Much of the opposition to the Civil War, in both the north and the south, was the widespread feeling that slavery would die out on it's own because it was so non-productive. Read Alexis de Tocqueville's account of floating down the Ohio River in 1826 with slave Kentucky on one bank, and on the right bank, free Ohio. He says on the right it is a hive of industry and commercial activity, on the left, the torpor of untouched nature.

Resentful Jews have spent decades defaming the people who built this country because they hate accomplishment by Christians.

Jewhater says what?

The South wasn't at all "backward and undeveloped" before the Civil War. It was where the money was as well as the best crop land. And its cotton especially fueled the national economy via vibrant international commerce.

I don't need no edumacation here Adolf. You do. Your blind bigot paranoia has all the consistency of a bagel shmear.

You are just another resentful Jew who can't stand the fact of accomplishment in someone else's ancestry. Like a vicious little termite, you are.