What is it that ideas and people are 'left' or 'right' of?

[Tehon]

Promoting the general welfare would require a standard.
Still, both sides support the center, the Constitution. The difference is interpretation. The problem is partly that, as I've seen, some people are immediately upset by the very use of the term 'interpretation' when associated with the Constitution.
Could we say that the 'right' is really the center and that the 'left' wants to liberalize Constitutional authority/central power? 'Right' supports central power and 'left' supports eccentric power?

The Constitution is no more the center than was the monarchy. They are the authority.
Social evolution is the center.
The left seeks it by challenging the authority.
The right suppresses it by appealing to the authority.

Classic Liberalism is far right by current left right definition and it actively limits authority.

I don't know how you define classic liberalism. The Constitution is that which limits the authority of the central government.

 

[Doc7505]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

Social evolution.

I don't think the monarch was the axis. It was social evolution. In the original meaning, the monarch and those seated to the right were impediments to social evolution. I don't think much has changed.

~~~~~~
Actually those above the salt were with the 'Lord' of the manor. Those below the salt were the "deplorables" of the times.
"The lord and his family sat toward the head of the table or "above the salt," while the servants sat toward the foot or "below the salt." In medieval times, society was rigidly stratified." Those below the salt were served last.

 

[Cellblock2429]

well there's plenty of way to look at political stripe>

Your figure is wrong the National Socialist German Workers Party should be placed very close to the International Socialists the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. National Socialism is definately not rightist (conservative) it is the epitome of a command economy, socialist/communist. You failed to show Classic Liberalism on your figure which is right of conservatism. The whole is figure nothing more than propaganda.

Appeals to national identity is a right wing concept.

/——/ And your point is???

 

[Tehon]

well there's plenty of way to look at political stripe>

Your figure is wrong the National Socialist German Workers Party should be placed very close to the International Socialists the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. National Socialism is definately not rightist (conservative) it is the epitome of a command economy, socialist/communist. You failed to show Classic Liberalism on your figure which is right of conservatism. The whole is figure nothing more than propaganda.

Appeals to national identity is a right wing concept.

/——/ And your point is???

The Nazis were first and foremost, nationalists. A right wing ideology.

Wasn't it obvious?

 

[Freiheit]

You opinion is naitionalism is right wing I have seen no credible evidence that nationalism is left or right. That is a moot point. No it isn't obvious at all The National Socialist German Workers ideology is complicated by leftist propaganda, historical distance and language.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center.

Incorrect.

 

[Freiheit]

Promoting the general welfare would require a standard.
Still, both sides support the center, the Constitution. The difference is interpretation. The problem is partly that, as I've seen, some people are immediately upset by the very use of the term 'interpretation' when associated with the Constitution.
Could we say that the 'right' is really the center and that the 'left' wants to liberalize Constitutional authority/central power? 'Right' supports central power and 'left' supports eccentric power?

The Constitution is no more the center than was the monarchy. They are the authority.
Social evolution is the center.
The left seeks it by challenging the authority.
The right suppresses it by appealing to the authority.

Classic Liberalism is far right by current left right definition and it actively limits authority.

I don't know how you define classic liberalism. The Constitution is that which limits the authority of the central government.

Classic Liberalism is nothing new I am surprised you don't have a solid grasp of its' concepts. A few of those concepts are governments function is to insure the liberty of the individual, rule of law, free markets, private property, a civil society, limited government among others. That by the way is not my definition it is part of the widely accepted definition of classic liberalism.

 

[there4eyeM]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

/——/ Mostly Left or right of the original intent of the Constitution and Bill of Rights

What does "right of the original intent", mean, what is an example? Same for "left".

 

[there4eyeM]

'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center.

Incorrect.

link?

 

[there4eyeM]

Promoting the general welfare would require a standard.
Still, both sides support the center, the Constitution. The difference is interpretation. The problem is partly that, as I've seen, some people are immediately upset by the very use of the term 'interpretation' when associated with the Constitution.
Could we say that the 'right' is really the center and that the 'left' wants to liberalize Constitutional authority/central power? 'Right' supports central power and 'left' supports eccentric power?

The Constitution is no more the center than was the monarchy. They are the authority.
Social evolution is the center.
The left seeks it by challenging the authority.
The right suppresses it by appealing to the authority.

Classic Liberalism is far right by current left right definition and it actively limits authority.

I don't know how you define classic liberalism. The Constitution is that which limits the authority of the central government.

At the same time, it establishes Federal power.

 

[percysunshine]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

It is all left brain/right brain psychology stuff. Oddly enough, the left side of peoples brains is the logical side and the right side of the brain is emotional.

Which means the French probably came up with the political classification system.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center.

Incorrect.

link?

Do you have one?

The seating arrangement was for supporters of the monarchy to sit on the right, while supporters of the revolution to sit on the left. This was effectively a division between aristocracy on the right and peasantry on the left, and was supposedly inspired by the aristocracy wanting to isolate themselves from the uncooth public behavior of the peasantry. After the French monarchy was abolished and a new legislative body was established seating arrangements often reflected similar comparisons, with those favoring a return to monarchy seated on the right most wing, while different quasi-factions were seated in the central or the left most wing areas.

 

[Cellblock2429]

well there's plenty of way to look at political stripe>

Your figure is wrong the National Socialist German Workers Party should be placed very close to the International Socialists the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. National Socialism is definately not rightist (conservative) it is the epitome of a command economy, socialist/communist. You failed to show Classic Liberalism on your figure which is right of conservatism. The whole is figure nothing more than propaganda.

Appeals to national identity is a right wing concept.

/——/ And your point is???

The Nazis were first and foremost, nationalists. A right wing ideology.

Wasn't it obvious?

/——/ Since when are right wingers Socialists as in National Socialist?

 

[percysunshine]

well there's plenty of way to look at political stripe>

Your figure is wrong the National Socialist German Workers Party should be placed very close to the International Socialists the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. National Socialism is definately not rightist (conservative) it is the epitome of a command economy, socialist/communist. You failed to show Classic Liberalism on your figure which is right of conservatism. The whole is figure nothing more than propaganda.

Appeals to national identity is a right wing concept.

/——/ And your point is???

The Nazis were first and foremost, nationalists. A right wing ideology.

Wasn't it obvious?

/——/ Since when are right wingers Socialists as in National Socialist?

Yet again...we can trace this stuff back to France.

 

[Oddball]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

Virtually nothing...Both "left" and "right" are statists in their own rights...They only vary in degrees and upon whom they choose to foist the heavy hand of state aggression.

 

[Freiheit]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

Virtually nothing...Both "left" and "right" are statists in their own rights...They only vary in degrees and upon whom they choose to foist the heavy hand of state aggression.

View attachment 221131

Your figure makes far more sense than does Tehons' traditional figure.

 

[Oddball]

Social evolution does not exclude positive contributions from a strong central authority, such as a monarch.

That's not evolution any more than trimming a topiary shrub into the shape of a spiral is "evolution".

In a social construct of families and clans, violence and feuds arise. Central authority resolves these, to the benefit of the weak and defenseless.

Yeah, the holomodor and Great Leap Forward really were a great benefit to the weak and defenseless!

By itself, authority is not inherently antithetic to social evolution. History shows the excesses of authoritarianism, surely, but does not show it to be entirely repressive.

Hogwash...Proactive aggression is always antithetic to social evolution.

 

[Tehon]

Promoting the general welfare would require a standard.
Still, both sides support the center, the Constitution. The difference is interpretation. The problem is partly that, as I've seen, some people are immediately upset by the very use of the term 'interpretation' when associated with the Constitution.
Could we say that the 'right' is really the center and that the 'left' wants to liberalize Constitutional authority/central power? 'Right' supports central power and 'left' supports eccentric power?

The Constitution is no more the center than was the monarchy. They are the authority.
Social evolution is the center.
The left seeks it by challenging the authority.
The right suppresses it by appealing to the authority.

Classic Liberalism is far right by current left right definition and it actively limits authority.

I don't know how you define classic liberalism. The Constitution is that which limits the authority of the central government.

Classic Liberalism is nothing new I am surprised you don't have a solid grasp of its' concepts. A few of those concepts are governments function is to insure the liberty of the individual, rule of law, free markets, private property, a civil society, limited government among others. That by the way is not my definition it is part of the widely accepted definition of classic liberalism.

The authority that I was specifically speaking of is the Constitution. Why did you take exception to my statement if you essentially agree with the premise? "Classic liberalism" (conservatism), limits authority by appealing to the Constitution (the authority).

 

[Tehon]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

Virtually nothing...Both "left" and "right" are statists in their own rights...They only vary in degrees and upon whom they choose to foist the heavy hand of state aggression.

View attachment 221131

Your figure makes far more sense than does Tehons' traditional figure.

It was not my meme.

 

[Tehon]

well there's plenty of way to look at political stripe>

Your figure is wrong the National Socialist German Workers Party should be placed very close to the International Socialists the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. National Socialism is definately not rightist (conservative) it is the epitome of a command economy, socialist/communist. You failed to show Classic Liberalism on your figure which is right of conservatism. The whole is figure nothing more than propaganda.

Appeals to national identity is a right wing concept.

/——/ And your point is???

The Nazis were first and foremost, nationalists. A right wing ideology.

Wasn't it obvious?

/——/ Since when are right wingers Socialists as in National Socialist?

Since it created the conditions for a unified and prosperous nation. It quelled social unrest.

It also wasn't socialism by any standard I recognize.