What is the attraction of Islam?

[FA_Q2]

I fond this rather interesting.

It reads as though you see Islam as a more advanced version of Christianity.

Islam is merely a continuation. It addresses certain shortcomings that have been found at times in Christianity. I don't see it as being more advanced than Christianity. But I recognize that when a person from a Christian background goes searching for new answers because they are dissatisfied with Christianity's own shortcomings, it will feel logical for some of those people to find a greater satisfaction in a religion that set out to address those perceived shortcomings. Ultimately, I find all organized religions to be rife with their own shortcomings. The important question is whether a given religion suits the spiritual needs of a given individual. For example, my spiritual needs do not include weekly assembly with a community to pray, read from ancient books, etc. But some people do need that in order to feel connected to divinity.

The mechanism here is the progression from an older system to a newer system, and the ultimate point is that these occurrences do not speak to any one religion being superior or better than the other. The perceived greater satisfaction and fulfillment that these individuals experience is attributable to the progressive relationship between the religions; it's essentially a psychological effect and therefore attributing these situations to the quality of the new found religions is inappropriate. A Jew can come to Christianity in the same way, a Christian can come to Islam in this way, a Muslim can come to the Bahai faith in this way, a Christian can come Mormonism in this way, etc. It's all about the basic human need for spiritual fulfillment, not the chosen flavor of spiritual fulfillment.

As a sincere and devout Pagan I have encountered many people who subscribe to Wicca and other neo-pagan traditions simply because they are searching for an alternative to Christianity, in which they've been immersed for their whole lives. Interestingly, I find that many of these people choose to claim allegiance to such beliefs, though the beliefs never are truly set in their hearts. Sometimes they'll even tell you that primary reasons for making this switch is because of their perception of Christianity's shortcomings. I like to call these people the "Christianity sucks, I quit" crowd. In many ways, this is a very similar phenomenon (though it typically involves a much more dramatic degree of dissatisfaction, as they are making a more severe break and venturing into a fundamentally different family of religions). These are people who feel a fundamental need to belong to establish a religious identity, which is human nature.

I think there is a fundamental flaw in that line of reasoning as Christians built their faith on the foundation of Judaism whereas Islam did not build off of Christianity.

It's quite arguable whether Christianity was built on a foundation of Judaism, and it's quite arguable whether Islam was built on a foundation of Christianity. But it's not very arguable that the degree to which the former is true is substantially different than the degree to which the latter is true. Christianity has strong and pronounced deviations from Judaism, just like Islam has pronounced deviations from Christianity. That being said, the degree of deviation in the latter case is probably slightly less than the former. Islam probably has less deviation from Judaism than Christianity has from Judaism.

That is a rather interesting take. Thank you for the perspective.

 

[ninja007]

they get them when young...

 

[Mac1958]

they get them when young...

Yes, they not only teach children from an early age to hate and kill, they have some of them participate.

I've had someone on this thread tell me that ISIS is no worse than Christianity.

This has become surreal.
.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

they get them when young...

Yes, they not only teach children from an early age to hate and kill, they have some of them participate.

I've had someone on this thread tell me that ISIS is no worse than Christianity.

This has become surreal.
.

Islam is no different than Christianity, not ISIS is no worse. ISIS is why religion, all religion, is a threat to the safety of mankind. As to the Palestinians, they are at war, a very unequal one.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

they get them when young...

Welcome to war, boys, a very unequal one.

 

[Mac1958]

they get them when young...

Yes, they not only teach children from an early age to hate and kill, they have some of them participate. I've had someone on this thread tell me that ISIS is no worse than Christianity. This has become surreal.
.

Islam is no different than Christianity, not ISIS is no worse. ISIS is why religion, all religion, is a threat to the safety of mankind. As to the Palestinians, they are at war, a very unequal one.

Okay, let me ask a question as clearly and specifically as I can.

Looking at two (2) religions - Christianity & Islam - and considering their places in this world at this specific period in time, would you say that one (1) of those religions is more murderous, malevolent, destructive and dangerous than the other? And if so, which one is that?

And anyone else is welcome to jump in, too.

The fact that I have to word the question so carefully illustrates my point, but I look forward to the answer(s).
.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Okay, let me ask a question as clearly and specifically as I can.

Looking at two (2) religions - Christianity & Islam - and considering their places in this world at this specific period in time, would you say that one (1) of those religions is more murderous, malevolent, destructive and dangerous than the other? And if so, which one is that?

No, I would not say that because that misses the forest for the trees. Muslims kill people, and they are allowed to in the defense of the faith when necessary while the Christians are not allowed to but that's never stopped them. One is being faithful, one is not, and neither do I approve of because both faiths oppose liberalism and secularism. You want to say, Hey, but those are the bad guys, look at things blowing up and it doesn't work that way. You are all bad guys, nearly without exception and it doesn't matter a damn whether it was two days ago or two decades ago or two centuries ago, the faithful are a danger to us all, period.

I don't treat the evil peas in an evil pod any differently just because one is slightly less evil than the other at the moment. The kid who breaks one window on purpose gets the same spanking as the one who broke three. The difference in damage doesn't matter a damn, nor do I account for it. Evil is evil, and a threat is a threat. No one gets a break from me on that, ever.

These two, equally bad, and equally dangerous...

 

[waltky]

`Cause ya get 72 beautiful virgins...

... the only problem is...

... God creates souls...

... so there's no need...

... for sex in Heaven/Paradise.

Bet dey fergit to tell `em dat.

 

[Mac1958]

Okay, let me ask a question as clearly and specifically as I can.

Looking at two (2) religions - Christianity & Islam - and considering their places in this world at this specific period in time, would you say that one (1) of those religions is more murderous, malevolent, destructive and dangerous than the other? And if so, which one is that?

No, I would not say that because that misses the forest for the trees. Muslims kill people, and they are allowed to in the defense of the faith when necessary while the Christians are not allowed to but that's never stopped them. One is being faithful, one is not, and neither do I approve of because both faiths oppose liberalism and secularism. You want to say, Hey, but those are the bad guys, look at things blowing up and it doesn't work that way. You are all bad guys, nearly without exception and it doesn't matter a damn whether it was two days ago or two decades ago or two centuries ago, the faithful are a danger to us all, period.

I don't treat the evil peas in an evil pod any differently just because one is slightly less evil than the other at the moment. The kid who breaks one window on purpose gets the same spanking as the one who broke three. The difference in damage doesn't matter a damn, nor do I account for it. Evil is evil, and a threat is a threat. No one gets a break from me on that, ever.

So is your answer that Christianity is currently "slightly less evil" than Islam?
.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Okay, let me ask a question as clearly and specifically as I can.

Looking at two (2) religions - Christianity & Islam - and considering their places in this world at this specific period in time, would you say that one (1) of those religions is more murderous, malevolent, destructive and dangerous than the other? And if so, which one is that?

No, I would not say that because that misses the forest for the trees. Muslims kill people, and they are allowed to in the defense of the faith when necessary while the Christians are not allowed to but that's never stopped them. One is being faithful, one is not, and neither do I approve of because both faiths oppose liberalism and secularism. You want to say, Hey, but those are the bad guys, look at things blowing up and it doesn't work that way. You are all bad guys, nearly without exception and it doesn't matter a damn whether it was two days ago or two decades ago or two centuries ago, the faithful are a danger to us all, period.

I don't treat the evil peas in an evil pod any differently just because one is slightly less evil than the other at the moment. The kid who breaks one window on purpose gets the same spanking as the one who broke three. The difference in damage doesn't matter a damn, nor do I account for it. Evil is evil, and a threat is a threat. No one gets a break from me on that, ever.

So is your answer that Christianity is currently "slightly less evil" than Islam?
.

If by "evil" you mean shit blowing up, yep. But I am no more concerned about the real Taliban than I am the American Taliban. Here, they are the problem, not ISIS.

And the solution to both of them is the same, which they completely reject of course, liberalism.

 

[Mac1958]

Okay, let me ask a question as clearly and specifically as I can.

Looking at two (2) religions - Christianity & Islam - and considering their places in this world at this specific period in time, would you say that one (1) of those religions is more murderous, malevolent, destructive and dangerous than the other? And if so, which one is that?

No, I would not say that because that misses the forest for the trees. Muslims kill people, and they are allowed to in the defense of the faith when necessary while the Christians are not allowed to but that's never stopped them. One is being faithful, one is not, and neither do I approve of because both faiths oppose liberalism and secularism. You want to say, Hey, but those are the bad guys, look at things blowing up and it doesn't work that way. You are all bad guys, nearly without exception and it doesn't matter a damn whether it was two days ago or two decades ago or two centuries ago, the faithful are a danger to us all, period.

I don't treat the evil peas in an evil pod any differently just because one is slightly less evil than the other at the moment. The kid who breaks one window on purpose gets the same spanking as the one who broke three. The difference in damage doesn't matter a damn, nor do I account for it. Evil is evil, and a threat is a threat. No one gets a break from me on that, ever.

So is your answer that Christianity is currently "slightly less evil" than Islam?
.

If by "evil" you mean shit blowing up, yep. But I am no more concerned about the real Taliban than I am the American Taliban. Here, they are the problem, not ISIS.

And the solution to both of them is the same, which they completely reject of course, liberalism.

Okay, I appreciate your candor.
.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Okay, let me ask a question as clearly and specifically as I can.

Looking at two (2) religions - Christianity & Islam - and considering their places in this world at this specific period in time, would you say that one (1) of those religions is more murderous, malevolent, destructive and dangerous than the other? And if so, which one is that?

No, I would not say that because that misses the forest for the trees. Muslims kill people, and they are allowed to in the defense of the faith when necessary while the Christians are not allowed to but that's never stopped them. One is being faithful, one is not, and neither do I approve of because both faiths oppose liberalism and secularism. You want to say, Hey, but those are the bad guys, look at things blowing up and it doesn't work that way. You are all bad guys, nearly without exception and it doesn't matter a damn whether it was two days ago or two decades ago or two centuries ago, the faithful are a danger to us all, period.

I don't treat the evil peas in an evil pod any differently just because one is slightly less evil than the other at the moment. The kid who breaks one window on purpose gets the same spanking as the one who broke three. The difference in damage doesn't matter a damn, nor do I account for it. Evil is evil, and a threat is a threat. No one gets a break from me on that, ever.

So is your answer that Christianity is currently "slightly less evil" than Islam?
.

If by "evil" you mean shit blowing up, yep. But I am no more concerned about the real Taliban than I am the American Taliban. Here, they are the problem, not ISIS.

And the solution to both of them is the same, which they completely reject of course, liberalism.

Okay, I appreciate your candor.
.

And I appreciate you asking, instead of telling like most here in most cases. Humans are a disease, and faith, nearly always, makes them worse...

 

[Claudette]

( I posted this in the Religion topic but thought I would post it here in my favorite place to tease right wingers too )
========
There is a noticeable surge in Muslims in America.

Some years back, it became fashionable among blacks --- particularly among black prisoners.
Then their women adopted the religion and were seen wearing burquas.
But not many overall.

Now I'm seeing white women wearing burqas!!

Saw one in Wal-Mart the other day.

Which makes me wonder what the attraction of Islam is --- especially why would emancipated American women voluntarily give up their freedom and allow themselves to be made into domestic sex slaves?

I can understand that, to a certain kind of " man ", there is an attraction to having their females totally subservient and being allowed ( by their religion if not by the law ) to beat them and even kill them for certain " offenses ".

But why do their women submit?

Women submit so they can join to the 72 Virgin Association.

If your male the Muslim religion is great.

If your a female. Not so much. Nothing like being treated like a slave.

Any female who wants to be a Muslim is a few cards short of a full deck and an idiot to boot.

 

[Mac1958]

Okay, let me ask a question as clearly and specifically as I can.

Looking at two (2) religions - Christianity & Islam - and considering their places in this world at this specific period in time, would you say that one (1) of those religions is more murderous, malevolent, destructive and dangerous than the other? And if so, which one is that?

No, I would not say that because that misses the forest for the trees. Muslims kill people, and they are allowed to in the defense of the faith when necessary while the Christians are not allowed to but that's never stopped them. One is being faithful, one is not, and neither do I approve of because both faiths oppose liberalism and secularism. You want to say, Hey, but those are the bad guys, look at things blowing up and it doesn't work that way. You are all bad guys, nearly without exception and it doesn't matter a damn whether it was two days ago or two decades ago or two centuries ago, the faithful are a danger to us all, period.

I don't treat the evil peas in an evil pod any differently just because one is slightly less evil than the other at the moment. The kid who breaks one window on purpose gets the same spanking as the one who broke three. The difference in damage doesn't matter a damn, nor do I account for it. Evil is evil, and a threat is a threat. No one gets a break from me on that, ever.

So is your answer that Christianity is currently "slightly less evil" than Islam?
.

If by "evil" you mean shit blowing up, yep. But I am no more concerned about the real Taliban than I am the American Taliban. Here, they are the problem, not ISIS.

And the solution to both of them is the same, which they completely reject of course, liberalism.

Okay, I appreciate your candor.
.

And I appreciate you asking, instead of telling like most here in most cases. Humans are a disease, and faith, nearly always, makes them worse...

Religion is clearly a mixed bag at best. It's not difficult to see the damage it has caused (obviously), yet it does provide strength, comfort and answers to so many. As far as I'm concerned, even if it's a placebo, hey, whatever works.

While I strongly suspect we're here as the result of chemistry and not divinity, I think there is great value to it until it reaches a certain point, and that's when some people choose to leverage it for purely selfish reasons. That's a long list.

Seems to me that faith in a god usually translates to faith in those who claim to speak for that god, and that's where the shit goes off the rails. Right now, though, I see one religion that is clearly more dangerous than the rest, and it's not terribly close.
.

 

[HUGGY]

There seems no limit to the stupidity of many human beings.

Why was Charles Manson and Jim Jones successful? There are many cults active in America today. Otherwise intelligent people still flock to these charletons by the thousands.

Why it happens has many reasons. The futility of our government. The corruption of our elected officials. There is little to really believe in. Some people need to have something to believe in..probably MOST people feel that way.

It is difficult to resolve the flight to Islam. What has this religion done for human kind? Not much as far as I can see. Islam is good for controlling ignorant populations and that is about it.

How any intelligent person or even people with limited mental horsepower can see what a country like ours offers compared to the living standards of nearly every Muslim society and still go in that direction is baffling.

Societies don't progress by stifled thinking and expression. Without the freedoms offered in Western cultures the Muslims would have nothing. They have borrowed some of our technology but have not created anything of material value on their own. If it was all left up to Islam the human race would live like barnyard animals.

 

[martybegan]

Oh yeah, covers in church = full covering of people outside.

Also remember men CAN'T wear hats in church, there are rules for both sexes.

Your attempt at equivocation is as usual, a failure.

Islam does the same as well - men have required garb as the women do.

That garb isn't "required", as you see the men in western clothes all the time.

 

[martybegan]

I wasn't condemning anything, I was making an observation on the mentality that would willingly give itself up to subservience, especially coming from free societies with gender equality, or close to gender equality.

No, you're making an observation on the mentality that would willingly give itself up to subservience for any religion other than Christianity. Subservience is a fundamental part of Christianity too. But you want it overlooked in that case.

There are cults that are christian based, Jonestown was, Waco was, I did say cults.

And there is a difference between be quiet in Church and be there every sunday subservience, and in the case of these converts, start wearing head to toe covers and do everything your husband says, or in the case of the Jonestown converts, move to the jungle, work to death, and commit suicide in mass.

 

[FA_Q2]

Oh yeah, covers in church = full covering of people outside.

Also remember men CAN'T wear hats in church, there are rules for both sexes.

Your attempt at equivocation is as usual, a failure.

Islam does the same as well - men have required garb as the women do.

That garb isn't "required", as you see the men in western clothes all the time.

Depends on where you are.

Also, the same can be said about women - in every Muslim nation I have been to I see women in western cloths as well.

 

[martybegan]

Oh yeah, covers in church = full covering of people outside.

Also remember men CAN'T wear hats in church, there are rules for both sexes.

Your attempt at equivocation is as usual, a failure.

Islam does the same as well - men have required garb as the women do.

That garb isn't "required", as you see the men in western clothes all the time.

Depends on where you are.

Also, the same can be said about women - in every Muslim nation I have been to I see women in western cloths as well.

Yes, but the point of this discussion is the "Jihadi Jane" phenomenon, of western secular women converting to an extreme form of Islam.

This isn't covering your head and going to mosque conversion, its head to toe cover and hide in your house conversion.

 

[FA_Q2]

Oh yeah, covers in church = full covering of people outside.

Also remember men CAN'T wear hats in church, there are rules for both sexes.

Your attempt at equivocation is as usual, a failure.

Islam does the same as well - men have required garb as the women do.

That garb isn't "required", as you see the men in western clothes all the time.

Depends on where you are.

Also, the same can be said about women - in every Muslim nation I have been to I see women in western cloths as well.

Yes, but the point of this discussion is the "Jihadi Jane" phenomenon, of western secular women converting to an extreme form of Islam.

This isn't covering your head and going to mosque conversion, its head to toe cover and hide in your house conversion.

Where was the word extreme mentioned anywhere?

You pointed out the clothing and then used the statement to say that men were under some restrictions in Christianity so the restrictions on women were fine.

I agree that the comparison is asinine BUT you also presented a fallacy because that argument applies to Islamic clothing requirements as well. Men are obligated to wear the above in the same manner that women are obligated to wear the black version. You also find varying levels of facial cover for the women - they are not all fully covered and some even cover their eyes.