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The Soviet Union did indeed allocate a considerable portion of its GDP to military spending, but it's important to recognize that this was primarily a reaction to the geopolitical context of the Cold War rather than an inherent characteristic of communism.
On the subject of production, it's a misrepresentation to assert that the USSR exclusively manufactured military equipment. In truth, the Soviet Union made significant strides in a myriad of sectors. They built the world's first nuclear power plant in Obninsk, engineered a robust subway system in Moscow, constructed numerous large-scale hydroelectric power stations, and innovated in space technology, education, and heavy industries such as steel and energy ("Obninsk: Number One," International Atomic Energy Agency; "Bratsk Hydroelectric Power Station, Russia," Power Technology; "Moscow Metro," Encyclopædia Britannica).
Despite the formidable challenge of transitioning from an under-developed agrarian society with widespread illiteracy, the Soviet Union transformed into an industrial powerhouse and, for several decades during the Cold War, the second-largest economy globally (Maddison, Angus. "The world economy: historical statistics" / also UN, IMF, WORLD BANK DATA confirms that the Soviets had the second largest economy in the world).
Furthermore, the USSR achieved this in the wake of unimaginable devastation inflicted by World War II. The Soviets, who bore the brunt of Nazi aggression (seven Nazi soldiers out of every ten, were fighting in Soviet Russia - four million Nazi Germans invaded Soviet Russia), had to rebuild their country from the ashes without the benefits of an American Marshall Plan (Western Europe and Japan got plenty of help from Uncle Sam after the war), instead relying on their internal resources and determination (they picked themselves up by their bootstraps and became the second largest economy in the world).
The United States came out of WW2 unscathed compared to Russia, Europe, and Japan. Notice how the USA is between two vast oceans/walls, that protect it.
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Ascribing the dissolution of the USSR solely to Reagan's influence oversimplifies a complex historical event shaped by various internal and external factors.
Regarding the so-called 'massive police state, mass graves, and gulags,' most of the information we have on that from the Soviet archives, doesn't correlate with the Western, Cold War rhetoric. A lot of the claims against Stalin and how the Soviets dealt with its internal saboteurs and enemies are exaggerated. Capitalist colonialism, and its current hegemonic globalism, not to speak of American imperialism, is much deadlier than Stalin or the Soviet Union.
Soviet central planning, without the benefit of modern, powerful computers or 21st-century technology, brought successes, rapid industrialization, advancements in space technology, and the provision of universal healthcare and education. With advancements in technology and improved economic understanding, there is the potential to learn from past missteps and develop a more effective and equitable central planning system for the future.
Finally, it's conjecture, not fact, to claim that communism will never work in the future. Given ongoing advancements in AI and automation, the conditions for communism's ultimate success may well be in place now and certainly in the not-too-distant future. Advanced robotics and artificial intelligence, are the arch menace of capitalism, whereas it's the close ally of communism. Communists love production technology that replaces human labor and drudgery, where capitalism is built upon human labor and drudgery.
In response to the claim that communism couldn't achieve the motivation for people to have access to goods and services, it's necessary to point out that the Soviet Union indeed managed to provide consumer goods to its citizens, significantly improving the standard of living compared to the Tsarist era.
Under Tsarist Russia, most of the population were peasants living in abject poverty. The industrial advancements and economic planning under the USSR brought about an improved standard of living, with access to education, healthcare, and other basic services, along with consumer goods, that were previously out of reach for many.
Furthermore, the future promises new possibilities for communist societies, thanks to advancements in artificial intelligence and automation. Autonomous machines, capable of operating 24/7 without the limitations and needs of human labor, hold the potential to create an abundance of goods and services. Such technology has the potential to eliminate poverty and ensure everyone's needs are met, which aligns with the foundational goals of communism.
Critics often argue from a place of static analysis, looking at the past and present without considering the transformative potential of the future. But the reality is that we are on the cusp of a technological revolution that could redefine our economic and social structures.
Capitalism, despite its successes in certain contexts, is rooted in a system of production and labor that will inevitably, due to advanced technology, become obsolete. The necessity for humans to sell their labor to capitalists to survive is a core aspect of capitalism and will become irrelevant in a world where machines can carry out most production tasks. Todd is unable or most likely just unwilling (he's suffering from denial) to acknowledge this simple, obvious fact.
Socialism, and eventually communism (the final stage and objective of socialism), will be the systems of production of the future. Economies that aren't based on the exploitation of human labor, but on the equitable distribution of the abundant resources produced by advanced machinery. Everyone will have an abundance of consumer goods in a modern communist economy, that is mostly automated by the latest technology.
Todd disingenuously overlooks the considerable achievements under socialism and fails to take into account the potential of our rapidly evolving technology. Far from being a failed system of the past, modern, high-tech communism is the obvious path to a prosperous and equitable future.
WWII is no excuse for the dismal economic performance of russia in 1990Mac-7 ignored all of the points that I made in my last post.
First, the question of why the USSR dissolved is a complex one that scholars still debate. It is simplistic to claim it failed solely because of internal economic factors. The historical and geopolitical context was undoubtedly a significant factor, including the long-lasting impact of the devastating invasion by Nazi Germany in WWII.
It's worth reminding that the Soviet Union bore the brunt of Nazi Germany's onslaught, enduring a cataclysmic loss of life and infrastructure. The USSR lost an estimated 26 million people, a staggering 14% of its population. Contrast this with the U.S., which, despite its contributions to the war effort, lost significantly fewer lives approximately 460,000, or less than 0.5% of its population.
The USSR had to rebuild almost from scratch, picking itself up by its own bootstraps, unlike Western Europe and Japan, which received significant aid through the Marshall Plan and other U.S. initiatives. These factors undoubtedly impacted the economic disparity between the USSR and the West. Despite this, the USSR grew its economy after WW2, making it the second largest economy in the world, with the US having the largest economy.
As for the allegation of handouts, it's ironic, considering the frequency with which capitalist economies resort to government assistance to prevent economic collapse. We see this in the recent calls from billionaires for a UBI or "Universal Basic Income", a direct government handout to everyone in response to the automation and job loss caused by AI advancements.
This is capitalism reacting to a crisis of its own making. The system that thrives on the exploitation of human labor is now grappling with the advent of machines that can do the same work without requiring wages, benefits, or rest.
The sweeping change brought about by AI and automation doesn't threaten communism it rather offers a promise of a society where resources are more equitably distributed, human labor is minimized, and everyone's needs are met. That's not a system in crisis. That's a system ready for the future! We, communists, love advanced technology that automates production as much as possible. We don't rely on wage labor like capitalists do, hence automation is our ally.
Claim: "The Soviets invested much effort to keep up with the West but couldn't do it because not enough people were incentivized to excel."
Refutation: This argument oversimplifies the complexities of the Soviet Union's economic system and ignores key factors that influenced its development.
It is essential to consider a comprehensive range of factors when assessing the Soviet Union's economic performance rather than reducing it to a single cause. Understanding the complexities of its economic system, historical context, and geopolitical dynamics provides a more nuanced perspective. Grow up Mak-7.
Historical Context: The Soviet Union, a new socialist country and society, emerged from the devastation of World War I, the Russian Revolution, and the subsequent civil war. Rebuilding the economy and modernizing its industry was a formidable task. Despite these challenges, the Soviet Union achieved rapid industrialization, scientific advancements, and significant improvements in education, healthcare, and social welfare.
- Devastation of World War II: The Soviet Union suffered immense human and material losses during World War II, with estimates of over 26 million Soviet citizens losing their lives. The war heavily impacted the country's infrastructure, industrial capacity, and agricultural resources, necessitating significant reconstruction efforts.
- Cold War and Geopolitical Constraints: The Soviet Union faced intense competition and confrontation with the United States during the Cold War. This rivalry involved military build-up, ideological conflicts, and economic competition. The pressures of the arms race, coupled with economic sanctions and trade restrictions, affected the Soviet Union's economic development.
- Lack of Marshal Plan Assistance: Unlike Western Europe, which received substantial aid through the Marshall Plan for post-war reconstruction, the Soviet Union did not benefit from similar external assistance. The absence of such support placed additional strain on the country's resources and slowed its recovery efforts.
- Technological Achievements: Despite all of the above aforementioned obstacles and challenges for the new nation (the Soviet Union), the Soviets made substantial progress in various fields, including space exploration, nuclear energy, and military technology. Notable achievements such as launching the first satellite (Sputnik) and sending the first human (Yuri Gagarin) into space demonstrate the country's scientific and technological capabilities.
- Human Capital: The Soviet Union prioritized education and invested heavily in its workforce, resulting in a highly educated population and skilled workforce. This emphasis on education and training contributed to significant advancements in science, mathematics, and engineering.
References:
- Kotz, D.M., & Weir, F. (2007). Russia's Path from Gorbachev to Putin: The Demise of the Soviet System and the New Russia. Routledge.
- Harrison, M. (2013). The Soviet Economy: Theory and Practice. Routledge.
- Kotz, D.M., & McDonough, T. (2012). The Soviet Union's Demise and the Rise of China. Routledge.
Mac-7 ignored all of the points that I made in my last post.
First, the question of why the USSR dissolved is a complex one that scholars still debate. It is simplistic to claim it failed solely because of internal economic factors. The historical and geopolitical context was undoubtedly a significant factor, including the long-lasting impact of the devastating invasion by Nazi Germany in WWII.
It's worth reminding that the Soviet Union bore the brunt of Nazi Germany's onslaught, enduring a cataclysmic loss of life and infrastructure. The USSR lost an estimated 26 million people, a staggering 14% of its population. Contrast this with the U.S., which, despite its contributions to the war effort, lost significantly fewer lives approximately 460,000, or less than 0.5% of its population.
The USSR had to rebuild almost from scratch, picking itself up by its own bootstraps, unlike Western Europe and Japan, which received significant aid through the Marshall Plan and other U.S. initiatives. These factors undoubtedly impacted the economic disparity between the USSR and the West. Despite this, the USSR grew its economy after WW2, making it the second largest economy in the world, with the US having the largest economy.
As for the allegation of handouts, it's ironic, considering the frequency with which capitalist economies resort to government assistance to prevent economic collapse. We see this in the recent calls from billionaires for a UBI or "Universal Basic Income", a direct government handout to everyone in response to the automation and job loss caused by AI advancements.
This is capitalism reacting to a crisis of its own making. The system that thrives on the exploitation of human labor is now grappling with the advent of machines that can do the same work without requiring wages, benefits, or rest.
The sweeping change brought about by AI and automation doesn't threaten communism it rather offers a promise of a society where resources are more equitably distributed, human labor is minimized, and everyone's needs are met. That's not a system in crisis. That's a system ready for the future! We, communists, love advanced technology that automates production as much as possible. We don't rely on wage labor like capitalists do, hence automation is our ally.
Btw: are you a new member or the same person with a new name?Claim: "The Soviets invested much effort to keep up with the West but couldn't do it because not enough people were incentivized to excel."
Refutation: This argument oversimplifies the complexities of the Soviet Union's economic system and ignores key factors that influenced its development.
It is essential to consider a comprehensive range of factors when assessing the Soviet Union's economic performance rather than reducing it to a single cause. Understanding the complexities of its economic system, historical context, and geopolitical dynamics provides a more nuanced perspective. Grow up Mak-7.
Historical Context: The Soviet Union, a new socialist country and society, emerged from the devastation of World War I, the Russian Revolution, and the subsequent civil war. Rebuilding the economy and modernizing its industry was a formidable task. Despite these challenges, the Soviet Union achieved rapid industrialization, scientific advancements, and significant improvements in education, healthcare, and social welfare.
- Devastation of World War II: The Soviet Union suffered immense human and material losses during World War II, with estimates of over 26 million Soviet citizens losing their lives. The war heavily impacted the country's infrastructure, industrial capacity, and agricultural resources, necessitating significant reconstruction efforts.
- Cold War and Geopolitical Constraints: The Soviet Union faced intense competition and confrontation with the United States during the Cold War. This rivalry involved military build-up, ideological conflicts, and economic competition. The pressures of the arms race, coupled with economic sanctions and trade restrictions, affected the Soviet Union's economic development.
- Lack of Marshal Plan Assistance: Unlike Western Europe, which received substantial aid through the Marshall Plan for post-war reconstruction, the Soviet Union did not benefit from similar external assistance. The absence of such support placed additional strain on the country's resources and slowed its recovery efforts.
- Technological Achievements: Despite all of the above aforementioned obstacles and challenges for the new nation (the Soviet Union), the Soviets made substantial progress in various fields, including space exploration, nuclear energy, and military technology. Notable achievements such as launching the first satellite (Sputnik) and sending the first human (Yuri Gagarin) into space demonstrate the country's scientific and technological capabilities.
- Human Capital: The Soviet Union prioritized education and invested heavily in its workforce, resulting in a highly educated population and skilled workforce. This emphasis on education and training contributed to significant advancements in science, mathematics, and engineering.
References:
- Kotz, D.M., & Weir, F. (2007). Russia's Path from Gorbachev to Putin: The Demise of the Soviet System and the New Russia. Routledge.
- Harrison, M. (2013). The Soviet Economy: Theory and Practice. Routledge.
- Kotz, D.M., & McDonough, T. (2012). The Soviet Union's Demise and the Rise of China. Routledge.
It's worth reminding that the Soviet Union bore the brunt of Nazi Germany's onslaught, enduring a cataclysmic loss of life and infrastructure. The USSR lost an estimated 26 million people, a staggering 14% of its population.
How many of those were killed by the Soviet government during the war?
How many more were killed by the Soviet government after the war?
If you are hiding something pardon me for askingI am, whoever I am. Pixels on your screen.
You tell me. Go ahead.
Thanks for your opinion and that of your capitalist, Cold War propagandists. My statement above is a fact, not an opinion. Four million Nazis, invaded the Soviet Union and caused an immense amount of carnage and destruction. You can deny it and focus your criticism on "Stalin the devil incarnate" if you want and pretend you're being rational. Yeah yeah, you're making sense, sure...The war heavily impacted the country's infrastructure, industrial capacity, and agricultural resources,
So did Stalin's idiocy.
If you are hiding something pardon me for asking
Thanks for your opinion and that of your capitalist, Cold War propagandists. My statement above is a fact, not an opinion. Four million Nazis, invaded the Soviet Union and caused an immense amount of carnage and destruction. You can deny it and focus your criticism on "Stalin the devil incarnate" if you want and pretend you're being rational. Yeah yeah, you're making sense, sure...
Clean, safe, nuclear. That's the solution.
Most libs hate nuclearClean, safe, nuclear. That's the solution.
There are a lot of financial interests behind the greens, just as there are behind the puberty blocker doctors. There's a lot of money behind it. Communists are pro-nuclear. We've been that way since the mid-20th century. We love nuclear energy and if we're not relying on it, we're using fossil fuels or hydroelectric. China is somewhat inclined towards nuclear, but they're an oddball. They're commie only in name, not in practice. China is a pathetic joke when it comes to its communism. There are more people in China going bankrupt with medical bills than here in the US.I agree.
It's commie funded greens who've been protesting nuclear since the 80s.
