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"If hijacked by Conservatives..." ?
Really Gracie?
YOU have no clue, do you?
It is my understanding that the original Tea Party message was, as Foxfyre pointed out, a libertarian message of limited government fiscally as well as socially.
Am I mistaken in that?
Fox News is made up of Conservatives. They are the ones that "hijacked" the Tea Party movement by sponsoring their events as their own.
Thus were they able to put their own Conservative spin on the Tea Party's message.
And now, the Tea Party overwhelmingly supports Rick Santorum, who, while a fiscal libertarian, is a social Statist.
Which, if you look at the chart, is the definition of a Conservative.
So, please point out where I am lacking said clue...
That may be the impression, but that may not be the case. I'm Tea Party, I support Romney. I appreciate the process, and to a point, many of the issues that are being both discussed and refined, because of the input.
Like it or not, Romney has the Business sense and experience, he also does have experience working with both sides to accomplish reasonable goals. I'd prefer baby steps over gridlock, with the situation worsening, not being able to move in any direction at all.
I would need to see Perry do more effectively, before I feel comfortable with him.
Paul, is a big fail on "Speak softly and carry a big stick". They all have good ideas. The thing is, who is the best administrator, and who is most likely to trip up, right out of the gate?
I bolded ONE of your misconceptions and a distraction YOU impose into the fray...
The TEA Party is made of of Conservatives of many stripes/beliefs...but Conservatives none the less...
Oh? And Screw your chart. Unreliable at best.
Definitive to whom exactly?I bolded ONE of your misconceptions and a distraction YOU impose into the fray...
The TEA Party is made of of Conservatives of many stripes/beliefs...but Conservatives none the less...
Oh? And Screw your chart. Unreliable at best.
See, now herein lies one of the main issues.
The Nolan Chart is the definitive chart of the modern-day political field.
What makes you think that it's incorrect exactly?
Do you feel that Conservatives are not in favor of more government oversight on moral issues? Rick Santorum would beg to differ.
The man is definitely a conservative, and has a whole host of ideas about how the government should be intervening in your sex life.
The only person I really feel has been speaking absolutely truthfully this whole time in this entire field, hell pretty much in Washington altogether recently, is Ron Paul.
Of course, speaking truthfully isn't always speaking the truth, but I respect the hell out of him for always sticking to what he believes in.
Translation: I lost the argument.Be that as it may, I think we can all agree that a conversation has been had here between conservatives and at least one liberal that was not very frustrating, for the most part.
I must exeunt stage left for the evening. You all have a good night.
But here is another sticky wicket. A conservative. if he knows anything about the Tea Party, knows that yes, it is made up of many different kinds of people, but the differences among those people is not what the Tea Party movement is all about. The Tea Party movement brings together many different kinds of people who are united in a specific cause to a) to return fiscal accountability and responsibility to government; b) to shrink the size, scope, and power of the federal goernment; and c) to refocus on individual liberties, unalienable rights, and personal self determination and stop the steady erosion of these freedoms.
Which is a Libertarian message. A message that I believe was the original intent of the Tea Party, but is not longer the case.
Liberals (and ignorant conservatives) try to make the Tea Party into an arm of the religious right and/or of the Republican party and/or of social conservatism. It is extremely frustrating to try to get people to focus on the principles involved and away from demonizing the group because it is seen as a threat to modern social liberalism. The truth, however, is that there are as likely as many people who are pro choice and pro life among Tea Party supporters.
The Tea Party has endorsed Mitt Romney and Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich as well as Rick Santorum, not because of any of their views on social issues, because the Tea Party is not focused on social issues, but because they have all agreed with Tea Party goals of fiscal responsiblity, smaller, more efficient, more effective, less intrusive federal government, and individual liberties.
Logical fallacy: The glasses are on the table.
The glasses are on Foxfyre.
Therefore Foxfyre is a table.
Logical fallacy: Rick Santorum is opposed to abortion.
Rick Santorum is a conservative.
Rick Santorum is endorsed by the Tea Party.
Therefore the Tea Party is conservative and opposed to abortion.
While those are in fact logical fallacies, and I see your point, here is mine:
Why would the Tea Party not support Ron Paul over Rick Santorum if they did in fact adhere to the Libertarian principles you stated are their goals?
Why would they ever have supported Mitt Romney or Rick Perry, both centrist-leaning statist-conservative at all? Much less over Ron Paul?
I see this over and over. Conservatives are for limited government. Just because we say we don't want government doing things where government is inept, counterproductive, wasteful or whatever, does not mean that we should shut it down totally.
Yes, we do need roads, bridges, highways, jails, schools, aircraft carriers, GPS satellites, standard weights and measures, courts, etc etc. Saying we don't need subsidies for crummy cars badly built and still with astronomical prices does not mean we don't need highways.
The conservative view is that the government should be a useful servant of the people's needs. However, you give it too much money, power, authority it becomes the worst sort of master.
So YOU capitulate and finally understand that there ARE individuals as the Founders acknowledged?What makes arguing with liberals so frustrating #1
Maybe because you closed your mind before discussion? Hell, there is a lot of people on the planet. All have their own view. Is mine so special?
So YOU capitulate and finally understand that there ARE individuals as the Founders acknowledged?What makes arguing with liberals so frustrating #1
Maybe because you closed your mind before discussion? Hell, there is a lot of people on the planet. All have their own view. Is mine so special?
*Imagine this*?
Trouble for you coming from your own ranks...Rut-Roh...
So YOU capitulate and finally understand that there ARE individuals as the Founders acknowledged?What makes arguing with liberals so frustrating #1
Maybe because you closed your mind before discussion? Hell, there is a lot of people on the planet. All have their own view. Is mine so special?
*Imagine this*?
Trouble for you coming from your own ranks...Rut-Roh...
I have no idea where you have been, but I understood that all along. I do have questions whether you "truly" understand that?
So YOU capitulate and finally understand that there ARE individuals as the Founders acknowledged?
*Imagine this*?
Trouble for you coming from your own ranks...Rut-Roh...
I have no idea where you have been, but I understood that all along. I do have questions whether you "truly" understand that?
*Sauce* For the Goose.
Clementine,
The Department of Energy was created to oversee the "United States' policies regarding energy and safety in handling nuclear material."
"Its responsibilities include the nation's nuclear weapons program, nuclear reactor production for the United States Navy, energy conservation, energy-related research, radioactive waste disposal, and domestic energy production. DOE also sponsors more basic and applied scientific research than any other US federal agency; most of this is funded through its system of United States Department of Energy National Laboratories."
Source: United States Department of Energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It was definitely not "was created to decrease our dependence on foreign oil".
The recent success or failure of the Department of Education is debatable, depending on your point of view, but our children have in fact been being educated, for some time now, at a reasonable rate for a relatively reasonable cost.
I wasn't aware there was a "war on welfare". When did that start?
Aside from that, your post consists of broad generalizations concerning a group of people that you apparently don't understand, or try to understand at all.
And, in the end, I believe that is what "makes arguing with liberals so frustrating" to some conservatives, to answer the OP. (Notice I said "some")
Some conservatives have a pre-conceived notion about what it is to be a liberal. Usually that pre-conceived notion is based on a lot of mis-information that they are fed by people who's job it is to convince them that liberals are their enemy. And so, usually, said pre-conceived notions are incorrect.
If you start with an imperfect understanding of the person you are talking to, and never bother to try to understand them better, you will continuously be frustrated when you attempt to speak to them.
Don't get me wrong, there are MANY people on the left-hand side of the fence that do the exact same thing. Pre-conceived labels and pre-judgments are not limited to any one group.
But the question was asked, and there's your answer. Like it or not.
What makes arguing with liberals so frustrating?
It is always frustrating when you are proven to be wrong.
So you must be constantly frustrated.
just sayin.
Not that all liberals are correct, but neither are all cons.
Leftists recite what the hive instructs, right and wrong aren't concepts that the drones grasp.
Bush said we'd be on Mars by nowClementine,
The Department of Energy was created to oversee the "United States' policies regarding energy and safety in handling nuclear material."
"Its responsibilities include the nation's nuclear weapons program, nuclear reactor production for the United States Navy, energy conservation, energy-related research, radioactive waste disposal, and domestic energy production. DOE also sponsors more basic and applied scientific research than any other US federal agency; most of this is funded through its system of United States Department of Energy National Laboratories."
Source: United States Department of Energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It was definitely not "was created to decrease our dependence on foreign oil".
The recent success or failure of the Department of Education is debatable, depending on your point of view, but our children have in fact been being educated, for some time now, at a reasonable rate for a relatively reasonable cost.
I wasn't aware there was a "war on welfare". When did that start?
Aside from that, your post consists of broad generalizations concerning a group of people that you apparently don't understand, or try to understand at all.
And, in the end, I believe that is what "makes arguing with liberals so frustrating" to some conservatives, to answer the OP. (Notice I said "some")
Some conservatives have a pre-conceived notion about what it is to be a liberal. Usually that pre-conceived notion is based on a lot of mis-information that they are fed by people who's job it is to convince them that liberals are their enemy. And so, usually, said pre-conceived notions are incorrect.
If you start with an imperfect understanding of the person you are talking to, and never bother to try to understand them better, you will continuously be frustrated when you attempt to speak to them.
Don't get me wrong, there are MANY people on the left-hand side of the fence that do the exact same thing. Pre-conceived labels and pre-judgments are not limited to any one group.
But the question was asked, and there's your answer. Like it or not.
Carter claimed the priority of the Dept of Energy was to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. While he may have given them other responsibilities, all he talked about was our dependence on other countries.
Carter Declares End to Foreign Oil Dependence
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=injqO8nzCK0]Pres. Jimmy Carter Declares End on Foreign Oil Dependence - YouTube[/ame]
33 Years Later, Carter's Energy Department Still Struggling to Meet Goals
33 Years Later, Carter
Carter vowed that 1977 would be the last year we we imported that much oil and that we'd drill our own and become independent.
Wow, you've never heard of the war on poverty? Perhaps I stated welfare. We should have a war on that because we have ensured that so many will remain hopelessly dependent on government and never know how to make it on their own.
Bush said we'd be on Mars by nowClementine,
The Department of Energy was created to oversee the "United States' policies regarding energy and safety in handling nuclear material."
"Its responsibilities include the nation's nuclear weapons program, nuclear reactor production for the United States Navy, energy conservation, energy-related research, radioactive waste disposal, and domestic energy production. DOE also sponsors more basic and applied scientific research than any other US federal agency; most of this is funded through its system of United States Department of Energy National Laboratories."
Source: United States Department of Energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It was definitely not "was created to decrease our dependence on foreign oil".
The recent success or failure of the Department of Education is debatable, depending on your point of view, but our children have in fact been being educated, for some time now, at a reasonable rate for a relatively reasonable cost.
I wasn't aware there was a "war on welfare". When did that start?
Aside from that, your post consists of broad generalizations concerning a group of people that you apparently don't understand, or try to understand at all.
And, in the end, I believe that is what "makes arguing with liberals so frustrating" to some conservatives, to answer the OP. (Notice I said "some")
Some conservatives have a pre-conceived notion about what it is to be a liberal. Usually that pre-conceived notion is based on a lot of mis-information that they are fed by people who's job it is to convince them that liberals are their enemy. And so, usually, said pre-conceived notions are incorrect.
If you start with an imperfect understanding of the person you are talking to, and never bother to try to understand them better, you will continuously be frustrated when you attempt to speak to them.
Don't get me wrong, there are MANY people on the left-hand side of the fence that do the exact same thing. Pre-conceived labels and pre-judgments are not limited to any one group.
But the question was asked, and there's your answer. Like it or not.
Carter claimed the priority of the Dept of Energy was to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. While he may have given them other responsibilities, all he talked about was our dependence on other countries.
Carter Declares End to Foreign Oil Dependence
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=injqO8nzCK0]Pres. Jimmy Carter Declares End on Foreign Oil Dependence - YouTube[/ame]
33 Years Later, Carter's Energy Department Still Struggling to Meet Goals
33 Years Later, Carter
Carter vowed that 1977 would be the last year we we imported that much oil and that we'd drill our own and become independent.
Wow, you've never heard of the war on poverty? Perhaps I stated welfare. We should have a war on that because we have ensured that so many will remain hopelessly dependent on government and never know how to make it on their own.
Bush said we'd be on Mars by nowCarter claimed the priority of the Dept of Energy was to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. While he may have given them other responsibilities, all he talked about was our dependence on other countries.
Carter Declares End to Foreign Oil Dependence
Pres. Jimmy Carter Declares End on Foreign Oil Dependence - YouTube
33 Years Later, Carter's Energy Department Still Struggling to Meet Goals
33 Years Later, Carter
Carter vowed that 1977 would be the last year we we imported that much oil and that we'd drill our own and become independent.
Wow, you've never heard of the war on poverty? Perhaps I stated welfare. We should have a war on that because we have ensured that so many will remain hopelessly dependent on government and never know how to make it on their own.
I'd like to send some people there. Too bad Obama ended the NASA space program. We'll never know what we missed out on.
Guess he's restarting it April 30th.Date: April 30 +
Time: 12:22 p.m. EDT
Mission: SpaceX
Launch Vehicle: Falcon 9/Dragon
Launch Site: Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla.
Launch Pad: Space Launch Complex 40
Description: The Falcon 9 rocket will launch the Dragon capsule to the International Space Station. Pending completion of final safety reviews, testing and verification, NASA has agreed to allow SpaceX to send its Dragon spacecraft to rendezvous with the station in a single flight.
Bush said we'd be on Mars by now
I'd like to send some people there. Too bad Obama ended the NASA space program. We'll never know what we missed out on.
Uhh, OK. Obama ended the NASA space program.
Guess he's restarting it April 30th.Date: April 30 +
Time: 12:22 p.m. EDT
Mission: SpaceX
Launch Vehicle: Falcon 9/Dragon
Launch Site: Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla.
Launch Pad: Space Launch Complex 40
Description: The Falcon 9 rocket will launch the Dragon capsule to the International Space Station. Pending completion of final safety reviews, testing and verification, NASA has agreed to allow SpaceX to send its Dragon spacecraft to rendezvous with the station in a single flight.
NASA - NASA's Consolidated Launch Schedule
Got it. Whatever your cult says, it must be true.
