"Whataboutism" - the new cowardly sprint from being held to a standard

[forkup]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

Exactly.

Like when Trump's cult were called to account after they stormed the Capitol, the response was "What about the summer riots?"

That sort of thing.

Toro, it is not illegitimate to bring up "the summer of love" because that is a situation where the double standard applies is that during last summer, there was ongoing rioting, and destruction throughout the summer, including an actual insurrection where leftists took over part of a city, including a police station....

I personally wish that on Jan 6th, those people didn't do what they did...Because it gave you leftists an out, to the damage you've done on the west coast, and continue to do...

The comparrisons are relevant....

That is a false equivalency. "Leftist" didn't take over police stations or a city. The people who did so identified with BLM.

Do you not see the contradiction in your thought here...."Leftists didn't take over...But, the people who did do that Identified with a leftist supported group"....Really?

They did so in response to police brutality. No Democratic lawmaker told them to do it and them doing it wasn't to further the interests of Democrats. What happened on the 6th was done because the president of the United States told people directly to try to stop the certification of the election results.

Um, no, and nothing offered by House managers this past week proved that true either....All they did was offer emotional arguments strung together with highly edited snipets of footage produced by Hollywood, that would have never passed the standards of proof in a court of law...Then they closed with the usual liberal threat of 'do what we want or we will label you in the future'....

Now, I have already said multiple times that what those protestors did on Jan 6th was wrong on every level, something you as a leftist have not to date done, nor will you ever do in the face of groups you support doing far worse for longer periods of time....

I didn't realize that condemning sitting on someone's neck until death was considered a left position?

As to contradictions. It's funny that you find distancing Democrats from a group of people protesting and rioting for a cause that is not political, not called for by Democrats for the simple reason that they mostly vote Democratic contradictory. While at the same time arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

One of us seems to have a bigger problem with contradictions. Who do you think that is?

 

[Oldestyle]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

Well, yes. "What about.." matters.

If your candidate and you denounce X openly, and you accuse the candidate you oppose of X while it's proven your own candidate has also done X...

You'd say me bringing up you and your candidate's hypocrisy is a "whataboutism"... which is just a defense mechanism to deflect and avoid your lack fo standards.

That's all is. If you're running around saying "Whataboutism".. you're an intellectual and philosophical coward..

Toughen up and set consistent, uniform standards for all people.

Lol, this is just sad.

The defense is so weak you feel the need to defend it.

It's not a matter of defending what went on Jan 6th...It's about people like you on the left excusing, and continuing to excuse what went on out west this past summer, and what is still ongoing...Then fabricating motives, and intentions on a man that no longer is in office because he so upset you that you just can't let him go....

It's about how you want to punish not only him, but anyone that supported him, or voted for him, and that means 74 million people you want to impose retribution, in revenge on....That is so anti American as to be detestable....

Look, I didn't, and don't agree that Joe Biden actually won the election of 2020 in a fair and open process that I can have confidence in going forward, but, he is certified, and whether I like it or not, he IS the President of the United States...In that capacity, as I did with Obama, I pray every day that he is safe, and is successful in the respect that he doesn't do enough damage as to destroy our country...Not many of you people can say the same considering how you spoke, and still speak of what you want for Trump....

I think we can both agree that what makes our country great is our capacity to allow differing opinions to be spoken in the open. That we don't go after former leaders to imprison them, or worse. That we maintain checks and balances that allow for those differing ideas to go forward, through consensus...These are things that as of now progressives want to do away with in our country, and when that happens, you bring Trump's predictions to truth, because it won't be America anymore...

So, one problem Democrats have had for the past thirty years or more is that when they achieve power, they invariably overplay their hands, and I emplore you people NOT to do that this time, because it may not be reconcilible if you do...And that would be a shame...

He incited an insurrection. In our capitol. The first time in our history there has ever been a threat to the peaceful transfer of power.

That is inexcusable. And while far from being the only inexcusable thing he has done over the last four years it is far and away the worst. In my opinion he should be hanged and fed to the dogs for that alone.

What was REALLY a greater threat to the peaceful transfer of power...a protest that lasted a few hours or a coordinated effort by a group of people to undermine the Presidency of an incoming administration with a smear campaign about Russian "collusion" that was paid for by the DNC and the losing campaign. A campaign that misled our FISA Court repeatedly! A campaign that utilized high ranking members of the FBI, the CIA and the NSA? A smear campaign that lasted for YEARS!

Ok, now you're off into wacky conspiracy theories.

Have a nice day.

No, I'm simply stating what happened during the election before this one and went on for years AFTER the election was decided! To be quite blunt, I'm rather tired of being accused of doing what your side actually DID! What makes it worse in my eyes is that it wasn't something done by the people...it was something that was done by Washington elites who didn't get the election result they'd anticipated!

 

[Oldestyle]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

Exactly.

Like when Trump's cult were called to account after they stormed the Capitol, the response was "What about the summer riots?"

That sort of thing.

Toro, it is not illegitimate to bring up "the summer of love" because that is a situation where the double standard applies is that during last summer, there was ongoing rioting, and destruction throughout the summer, including an actual insurrection where leftists took over part of a city, including a police station....

I personally wish that on Jan 6th, those people didn't do what they did...Because it gave you leftists an out, to the damage you've done on the west coast, and continue to do...

The comparrisons are relevant....

That is a false equivalency. "Leftist" didn't take over police stations or a city. The people who did so identified with BLM.

Do you not see the contradiction in your thought here...."Leftists didn't take over...But, the people who did do that Identified with a leftist supported group"....Really?

They did so in response to police brutality. No Democratic lawmaker told them to do it and them doing it wasn't to further the interests of Democrats. What happened on the 6th was done because the president of the United States told people directly to try to stop the certification of the election results.

Um, no, and nothing offered by House managers this past week proved that true either....All they did was offer emotional arguments strung together with highly edited snipets of footage produced by Hollywood, that would have never passed the standards of proof in a court of law...Then they closed with the usual liberal threat of 'do what we want or we will label you in the future'....

Now, I have already said multiple times that what those protestors did on Jan 6th was wrong on every level, something you as a leftist have not to date done, nor will you ever do in the face of groups you support doing far worse for longer periods of time....

I didn't realize that condemning sitting on someone's neck until death was considered a left position?

As to contradictions. It's funny that you find distancing Democrats from a group of people protesting and rioting for a cause that is not political, not called for by Democrats for the simple reason that they mostly vote Democratic contradictory. While at the same time arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

One of us seems to have a bigger problem with contradictions. Who do you think that is?

The only problem with your contention that it was the kneeling on Floyd's neck wasn't what killed him. The autopsy blew that talking point right out of the window! Floyd died from a drug overdose. He was turned into a martyr by the left because it fit the narrative they were pushing. They allowed cities across the nation to burn because they thought it would help their agenda.

 

[Crepitus]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

Well, yes. "What about.." matters.

If your candidate and you denounce X openly, and you accuse the candidate you oppose of X while it's proven your own candidate has also done X...

You'd say me bringing up you and your candidate's hypocrisy is a "whataboutism"... which is just a defense mechanism to deflect and avoid your lack fo standards.

That's all is. If you're running around saying "Whataboutism".. you're an intellectual and philosophical coward..

Toughen up and set consistent, uniform standards for all people.

Lol, this is just sad.

The defense is so weak you feel the need to defend it.

It's not a matter of defending what went on Jan 6th...It's about people like you on the left excusing, and continuing to excuse what went on out west this past summer, and what is still ongoing...Then fabricating motives, and intentions on a man that no longer is in office because he so upset you that you just can't let him go....

It's about how you want to punish not only him, but anyone that supported him, or voted for him, and that means 74 million people you want to impose retribution, in revenge on....That is so anti American as to be detestable....

Look, I didn't, and don't agree that Joe Biden actually won the election of 2020 in a fair and open process that I can have confidence in going forward, but, he is certified, and whether I like it or not, he IS the President of the United States...In that capacity, as I did with Obama, I pray every day that he is safe, and is successful in the respect that he doesn't do enough damage as to destroy our country...Not many of you people can say the same considering how you spoke, and still speak of what you want for Trump....

I think we can both agree that what makes our country great is our capacity to allow differing opinions to be spoken in the open. That we don't go after former leaders to imprison them, or worse. That we maintain checks and balances that allow for those differing ideas to go forward, through consensus...These are things that as of now progressives want to do away with in our country, and when that happens, you bring Trump's predictions to truth, because it won't be America anymore...

So, one problem Democrats have had for the past thirty years or more is that when they achieve power, they invariably overplay their hands, and I emplore you people NOT to do that this time, because it may not be reconcilible if you do...And that would be a shame...

He incited an insurrection. In our capitol. The first time in our history there has ever been a threat to the peaceful transfer of power.

That is inexcusable. And while far from being the only inexcusable thing he has done over the last four years it is far and away the worst. In my opinion he should be hanged and fed to the dogs for that alone.

What was REALLY a greater threat to the peaceful transfer of power...a protest that lasted a few hours or a coordinated effort by a group of people to undermine the Presidency of an incoming administration with a smear campaign about Russian "collusion" that was paid for by the DNC and the losing campaign. A campaign that misled our FISA Court repeatedly! A campaign that utilized high ranking members of the FBI, the CIA and the NSA? A smear campaign that lasted for YEARS!

Ok, now you're off into wacky conspiracy theories.

Have a nice day.

No, I'm simply stating what happened during the election before this one and went on for years AFTER the election was decided! To be quite blunt, I'm rather tired of being accused of doing what your side actually DID! What makes it worse in my eyes is that it wasn't something done by the people...it was something that was done by Washington elites who didn't get the election result they'd anticipated!

Nope. You're off into lala land with the rest of the tRumplings.

Bye now.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

I don't ignore people even when they're extremists. To be honest, in my experience very few people on here aren't extremist or at the very least not dishonest. Doing so would cause me to only talk to myself mostly.

I do. If people can't respectfully debate things, and just hurl insults.. it's a waste of time.

I will not give a comprehensive list it would take the form of a book to do so, just some highlights. For instance,
-comparing the protests and riots of the summer and the Democratic response to them to those in January. The Democrats didn't organize them, it wasn't for the benefit of Democrats, the Democrats didn't encourage them, the Democrats didn't lead them. The most you'll find is them confirming that there is a right to protest, peacefully. Riots were always condemned forcefully and without the least bit of ambiguity.

On January 6th there was a rally that was endorsed by Trump, plugged by Trump, for the benefit of Trump, lead by Trump, and when violence broke out it took him hours to stop to encourage them and when he did, it was so ambiguous that it is now used as evidence AGAINST him.

This is the current false equivalency.

I understand you view it as a false equivalency, but..

1. Domestic violence was committed in both instances. As far as the BLM/ANTIFA riots, it was infinitely worse. Blocks burned to the ground, over 40 people dead, hundreds of police hospitalized and many permanently disabled.

2. Democrats did not denounce the violence as it happened, they were silent, or talking about the importance it. They overall ignored the violence, calling the entire thing, along with the media, "mostly peaceful" By that standard, the capitol rally was "mostly peaceful", because tens to hundreds of thousands of people were there, and a few hundred idiots were the violent ones. And even when they did denounce violence, they never once named BLM or ANTIFA. Joe Biden won't even admit ANTIFA is real. In contrast, Trump identifies and condemns the violent.

3. January 6th was indeed supported by Trump, but the rally was, not the violence. If you can't distinguish between the two, I'd question your honesty. Trump requested peaceful protest, and once violence started told people to go home. That's fact.

-Using "all politicians lie" as a justification for lying more than 30000 times in office. To the point that many people are perfectly willing to ignore everybody, INCLUDING friendly media and their own party on the word of Trump.

That 30,000 number doesnt' hold much weight, given that many "fact checks" don't check facts, but give their own judgements of context, narrative, etc. Meanwhile, Trump was fact-checked probably 10 times more than any other president. The whole "fact check" institution has been revealed to be largely a sham, as they can't stick to facts, and don't have consistent standards on what is true or false. Meanwhile, WaPo's presidential fact check was taken down the moment Biden got into office. The media and fact checkers treat presidents differently based on the letter after their name, that's obvious. Look at the whitehouse press conferences. Biden gets his feet massaged by his lapdog supporters in the media. It's a 180 from when they were pitbull, watchdog seekers of truth. Sure, Trump has lied, but not anymore than Obama. I think Obama is well beyond him, and Biden is no slouch. Trump is not unique at all in this issue, no matter how much you want to create a narrative here to tarnish him.

Well, I will again not give a comprehensive list but just give the highlights.

-Refusing to adequately recognize and combat a deadly virus.

I disagree. He was arguably one of the first to act against it aggressively while Democrats played the woke card and worried about offending anyone who is Asian. Had Trump shut everything down as soon as the first COVID case came to America, the left would absolutely have cried out how he was a dictator. Democrats were late to taking this virus seriously, and then they tried to rewrite history, and the media helped them do it. Yes, Trump has not advocated for people to live in fear of COVID, but given the data, such fear porn isn't warranted. If you're under the age of 65, you're pretty safe from this thing. There should never have been total shutdowns, and schools should be open nationwide. I hope many people sue the states who nuked our economy, many with seeming political reasons, as they softened up the moment Biden became president.

-Lying so much truth has become a matter of the eye of the beholder for many people.

Well that's just a BS leftist bumper sticker.

-Using the position as president to enrich himself while STILL in office.

That's common. Look at Barack Obama. Hell, Trump didn't even accept his salary.

-Not just refusing to accept the election results after all legal options were exhausted but actively encouraging people to stop the certification of the elections.

On that I agree... that hasn't happened, and I though it was foolish. But that, and all of your other examples.. as far as a level of immorality, it doesn't approach Obama's drone strikes on civilians, or spying on candidate Trump in Obamagate, or obtaining phone records of an AP journalist.. a true assault on the media.

 

[j-mac]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

Exactly.

Like when Trump's cult were called to account after they stormed the Capitol, the response was "What about the summer riots?"

That sort of thing.

Toro, it is not illegitimate to bring up "the summer of love" because that is a situation where the double standard applies is that during last summer, there was ongoing rioting, and destruction throughout the summer, including an actual insurrection where leftists took over part of a city, including a police station....

I personally wish that on Jan 6th, those people didn't do what they did...Because it gave you leftists an out, to the damage you've done on the west coast, and continue to do...

The comparrisons are relevant....

That is a false equivalency. "Leftist" didn't take over police stations or a city. The people who did so identified with BLM.

Do you not see the contradiction in your thought here...."Leftists didn't take over...But, the people who did do that Identified with a leftist supported group"....Really?

They did so in response to police brutality. No Democratic lawmaker told them to do it and them doing it wasn't to further the interests of Democrats. What happened on the 6th was done because the president of the United States told people directly to try to stop the certification of the election results.

Um, no, and nothing offered by House managers this past week proved that true either....All they did was offer emotional arguments strung together with highly edited snipets of footage produced by Hollywood, that would have never passed the standards of proof in a court of law...Then they closed with the usual liberal threat of 'do what we want or we will label you in the future'....

Now, I have already said multiple times that what those protestors did on Jan 6th was wrong on every level, something you as a leftist have not to date done, nor will you ever do in the face of groups you support doing far worse for longer periods of time....

I didn't realize that condemning sitting on someone's neck until death was considered a left position?

As to contradictions. It's funny that you find distancing Democrats from a group of people protesting and rioting for a cause that is not political, not called for by Democrats for the simple reason that they mostly vote Democratic contradictory. While at the same time arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

One of us seems to have a bigger problem with contradictions. Who do you think that is?

Condemn it all you wish....But, when you cheer on the murder of police in the aftermath of that, it goes further than simple condemnation wouldn't you say?

And you can tout your narrative all you wish, he was just aqutted of your claim....So, it is baseless.

 

[forkup]

I don't ignore people even when they're extremists. To be honest, in my experience very few people on here aren't extremist or at the very least not dishonest. Doing so would cause me to only talk to myself mostly.

I do. If people can't respectfully debate things, and just hurl insults.. it's a waste of time.

I will not give a comprehensive list it would take the form of a book to do so, just some highlights. For instance,
-comparing the protests and riots of the summer and the Democratic response to them to those in January. The Democrats didn't organize them, it wasn't for the benefit of Democrats, the Democrats didn't encourage them, the Democrats didn't lead them. The most you'll find is them confirming that there is a right to protest, peacefully. Riots were always condemned forcefully and without the least bit of ambiguity.

On January 6th there was a rally that was endorsed by Trump, plugged by Trump, for the benefit of Trump, lead by Trump, and when violence broke out it took him hours to stop to encourage them and when he did, it was so ambiguous that it is now used as evidence AGAINST him.

This is the current false equivalency.

I understand you view it as a false equivalency, but..

1. Domestic violence was committed in both instances. As far as the BLM/ANTIFA riots, it was infinitely worse. Blocks burned to the ground, over 40 people dead, hundreds of police hospitalized and many permanently disabled.

2. Democrats did not denounce the violence as it happened, they were silent, or talking about the importance it. They overall ignored the violence, calling the entire thing, along with the media, "mostly peaceful" By that standard, the capitol rally was "mostly peaceful", because tens to hundreds of thousands of people were there, and a few hundred idiots were the violent ones. And even when they did denounce violence, they never once named BLM or ANTIFA. Joe Biden won't even admit ANTIFA is real. In contrast, Trump identifies and condemns the violent.

3. January 6th was indeed supported by Trump, but the rally was, not the violence. If you can't distinguish between the two, I'd question your honesty. Trump requested peaceful protest, and once violence started told people to go home. That's fact.

-Using "all politicians lie" as a justification for lying more than 30000 times in office. To the point that many people are perfectly willing to ignore everybody, INCLUDING friendly media and their own party on the word of Trump.

That 30,000 number doesnt' hold much weight, given that many "fact checks" don't check facts, but give their own judgements of context, narrative, etc. Meanwhile, Trump was fact-checked probably 10 times more than any other president. The whole "fact check" institution has been revealed to be largely a sham, as they can't stick to facts, and don't have consistent standards on what is true or false. Meanwhile, WaPo's presidential fact check was taken down the moment Biden got into office. The media and fact checkers treat presidents differently based on the letter after their name, that's obvious. Look at the whitehouse press conferences. Biden gets his feet massaged by his lapdog supporters in the media. It's a 180 from when they were pitbull, watchdog seekers of truth. Sure, Trump has lied, but not anymore than Obama. I think Obama is well beyond him, and Biden is no slouch. Trump is not unique at all in this issue, no matter how much you want to create a narrative here to tarnish him.

Well, I will again not give a comprehensive list but just give the highlights.

-Refusing to adequately recognize and combat a deadly virus.

I disagree. He was arguably one of the first to act against it aggressively while Democrats played the woke card and worried about offending anyone who is Asian. Had Trump shut everything down as soon as the first COVID case came to America, the left would absolutely have cried out how he was a dictator. Democrats were late to taking this virus seriously, and then they tried to rewrite history, and the media helped them do it. Yes, Trump has not advocated for people to live in fear of COVID, but given the data, such fear porn isn't warranted. If you're under the age of 65, you're pretty safe from this thing. There should never have been total shutdowns, and schools should be open nationwide. I hope many people sue the states who nuked our economy, many with seeming political reasons, as they softened up the moment Biden became president.

-Lying so much truth has become a matter of the eye of the beholder for many people.

Well that's just a BS leftist bumper sticker.

-Using the position as president to enrich himself while STILL in office.

That's common. Look at Barack Obama. Hell, Trump didn't even accept his salary.

-Not just refusing to accept the election results after all legal options were exhausted but actively encouraging people to stop the certification of the elections.

On that I agree... that hasn't happened, and I though it was foolish. But that, and all of your other examples.. as far as a level of immorality, it doesn't approach Obama's drone strikes on civilians, or spying on candidate Trump in Obamagate, or obtaining phone records of an AP journalist.. a true assault on the media.

You are kind of like me and try to reply to every single argument. I appreciate that, but if we both do it the replies will become long to the point of becoming unreadable. I will therefore try to refocus my response to the premise of the OP. I'm not trying to deflect so if you want me to react to an argument you made that you feel is particularly compelling feel free to say so.

A "whataboutism" is called a Tu quoque logical fallacy. Appeal to hypocrisy | The Logical Place (wordpress.com)
You are trying to say it's not a fallacious argument by trying to claim that the reason you are doing it is not to call out Democrats but simply to establish a precedent.

What you are saying is that if you can make a claim that candidate X on the left has acted a certain way (however wrong and I'd argue however imperfect the comparison) candidate Y on the right acting the same way is no longer wrong but just a "standard".

Do you see the fundamental flaw in that line of reasoning?

 

[forkup]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

Exactly.

Like when Trump's cult were called to account after they stormed the Capitol, the response was "What about the summer riots?"

That sort of thing.

Toro, it is not illegitimate to bring up "the summer of love" because that is a situation where the double standard applies is that during last summer, there was ongoing rioting, and destruction throughout the summer, including an actual insurrection where leftists took over part of a city, including a police station....

I personally wish that on Jan 6th, those people didn't do what they did...Because it gave you leftists an out, to the damage you've done on the west coast, and continue to do...

The comparrisons are relevant....

That is a false equivalency. "Leftist" didn't take over police stations or a city. The people who did so identified with BLM.

Do you not see the contradiction in your thought here...."Leftists didn't take over...But, the people who did do that Identified with a leftist supported group"....Really?

They did so in response to police brutality. No Democratic lawmaker told them to do it and them doing it wasn't to further the interests of Democrats. What happened on the 6th was done because the president of the United States told people directly to try to stop the certification of the election results.

Um, no, and nothing offered by House managers this past week proved that true either....All they did was offer emotional arguments strung together with highly edited snipets of footage produced by Hollywood, that would have never passed the standards of proof in a court of law...Then they closed with the usual liberal threat of 'do what we want or we will label you in the future'....

Now, I have already said multiple times that what those protestors did on Jan 6th was wrong on every level, something you as a leftist have not to date done, nor will you ever do in the face of groups you support doing far worse for longer periods of time....

I didn't realize that condemning sitting on someone's neck until death was considered a left position?

As to contradictions. It's funny that you find distancing Democrats from a group of people protesting and rioting for a cause that is not political, not called for by Democrats for the simple reason that they mostly vote Democratic contradictory. While at the same time arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

One of us seems to have a bigger problem with contradictions. Who do you think that is?

Condemn it all you wish....But, when you cheer on the murder of police in the aftermath of that, it goes further than simple condemnation wouldn't you say?

And you can tout your narrative all you wish, he was just aqutted of your claim....So, it is baseless.

If you can find me anyone who "cheered on the murder of the police" feel free to give me the example.

He was acquitted because the majority that said he was guilty wasn't big enough. And for those that said he was not guilty, the majority aren't arguing that "my narrative" was wrong but rather that they don't feel they have the jurisdiction to do something about it. That is an entirely different argument.

"My narrative" is an accurate description of what happened and why.

 

[j-mac]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

Exactly.

Like when Trump's cult were called to account after they stormed the Capitol, the response was "What about the summer riots?"

That sort of thing.

Toro, it is not illegitimate to bring up "the summer of love" because that is a situation where the double standard applies is that during last summer, there was ongoing rioting, and destruction throughout the summer, including an actual insurrection where leftists took over part of a city, including a police station....

I personally wish that on Jan 6th, those people didn't do what they did...Because it gave you leftists an out, to the damage you've done on the west coast, and continue to do...

The comparrisons are relevant....

That is a false equivalency. "Leftist" didn't take over police stations or a city. The people who did so identified with BLM.

Do you not see the contradiction in your thought here...."Leftists didn't take over...But, the people who did do that Identified with a leftist supported group"....Really?

They did so in response to police brutality. No Democratic lawmaker told them to do it and them doing it wasn't to further the interests of Democrats. What happened on the 6th was done because the president of the United States told people directly to try to stop the certification of the election results.

Um, no, and nothing offered by House managers this past week proved that true either....All they did was offer emotional arguments strung together with highly edited snipets of footage produced by Hollywood, that would have never passed the standards of proof in a court of law...Then they closed with the usual liberal threat of 'do what we want or we will label you in the future'....

Now, I have already said multiple times that what those protestors did on Jan 6th was wrong on every level, something you as a leftist have not to date done, nor will you ever do in the face of groups you support doing far worse for longer periods of time....

I didn't realize that condemning sitting on someone's neck until death was considered a left position?

As to contradictions. It's funny that you find distancing Democrats from a group of people protesting and rioting for a cause that is not political, not called for by Democrats for the simple reason that they mostly vote Democratic contradictory. While at the same time arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

One of us seems to have a bigger problem with contradictions. Who do you think that is?

Condemn it all you wish....But, when you cheer on the murder of police in the aftermath of that, it goes further than simple condemnation wouldn't you say?

And you can tout your narrative all you wish, he was just aqutted of your claim....So, it is baseless.

If you can find me anyone who "cheered on the murder of the police" feel free to give me the example.

He was acquitted because the majority that said he was guilty wasn't big enough. And for those that said he was not guilty, the majority aren't arguing that "my narrative" was wrong but rather that they don't feel they have the jurisdiction to do something about it. That is an entirely different argument.

"My narrative" is an accurate description of what happened and why.

There’s many quotes of prominent Democrats during and after leftist riots out west, where officers not only were injured, but died that said the violence must continue...Hell, our now VP, set up a fund to bail them out for Christ sake...

No, your narrative is bull shit trolling and you know it...

 

[forkup]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

Exactly.

Like when Trump's cult were called to account after they stormed the Capitol, the response was "What about the summer riots?"

That sort of thing.

Toro, it is not illegitimate to bring up "the summer of love" because that is a situation where the double standard applies is that during last summer, there was ongoing rioting, and destruction throughout the summer, including an actual insurrection where leftists took over part of a city, including a police station....

I personally wish that on Jan 6th, those people didn't do what they did...Because it gave you leftists an out, to the damage you've done on the west coast, and continue to do...

The comparrisons are relevant....

That is a false equivalency. "Leftist" didn't take over police stations or a city. The people who did so identified with BLM.

Do you not see the contradiction in your thought here...."Leftists didn't take over...But, the people who did do that Identified with a leftist supported group"....Really?

They did so in response to police brutality. No Democratic lawmaker told them to do it and them doing it wasn't to further the interests of Democrats. What happened on the 6th was done because the president of the United States told people directly to try to stop the certification of the election results.

Um, no, and nothing offered by House managers this past week proved that true either....All they did was offer emotional arguments strung together with highly edited snipets of footage produced by Hollywood, that would have never passed the standards of proof in a court of law...Then they closed with the usual liberal threat of 'do what we want or we will label you in the future'....

Now, I have already said multiple times that what those protestors did on Jan 6th was wrong on every level, something you as a leftist have not to date done, nor will you ever do in the face of groups you support doing far worse for longer periods of time....

I didn't realize that condemning sitting on someone's neck until death was considered a left position?

As to contradictions. It's funny that you find distancing Democrats from a group of people protesting and rioting for a cause that is not political, not called for by Democrats for the simple reason that they mostly vote Democratic contradictory. While at the same time arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

One of us seems to have a bigger problem with contradictions. Who do you think that is?

Condemn it all you wish....But, when you cheer on the murder of police in the aftermath of that, it goes further than simple condemnation wouldn't you say?

And you can tout your narrative all you wish, he was just aqutted of your claim....So, it is baseless.

If you can find me anyone who "cheered on the murder of the police" feel free to give me the example.

He was acquitted because the majority that said he was guilty wasn't big enough. And for those that said he was not guilty, the majority aren't arguing that "my narrative" was wrong but rather that they don't feel they have the jurisdiction to do something about it. That is an entirely different argument.

"My narrative" is an accurate description of what happened and why.

There’s many quotes of prominent Democrats during and after leftist riots out west, where officers not only were injured, but died that said the violence must continue...Hell, our now VP, set up a fund to bail them out for Christ sake...

No, your narrative is bull shit trolling and you know it...

that said the violence must continue

Ok then with the recources of the entire internet at your disposal you'll have now problem giving an example. A statement like that deserves it.

Hell, our now VP, set up a fund to bail them out

Oh? That's news to me. You are of course capable of proving that? Or do you mean the Minnesota freedom fund? A non-profit most definitely not set up by Harris that has this mission statement. Minnesota Freedom Fund (mnfreedomfund.org).

No, your narrative is bull shit trolling and you know it...

arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

Feel free to point out what exactly here is incorrect?

 

[Mac1958]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

Well, yes. "What about.." matters.

If your candidate and you denounce X openly, and you accuse the candidate you oppose of X while it's proven your own candidate has also done X...

You'd say me bringing up you and your candidate's hypocrisy is a "whataboutism"... which is just a defense mechanism to deflect and avoid your lack fo standards.

That's all is. If you're running around saying "Whataboutism".. you're an intellectual and philosophical coward..

Toughen up and set consistent, uniform standards for all people.

It's a standard tactic used by hardcore partisan ideologues on both ends of the spectrum, and is only increasing in intensity. The point, of course, is to (a) avoid honestly addressing the topic at hand, (b) blatantly changing the subject, and (c) attacking.

1. Example from the Left: "You don't like Obamacare? YOU'RE A RACIST! WHY ARE YOU SUCH A RACIST!" (I've gotten that one many times)
2. Example from the Right: "Trumpsters attacked our nation's capitol? ANTIFA! BLM! HILLARY! COMMIES!" (As we've seen here for 5 weeks)

One of the many transparent behaviors shared by both ends of our political spectrum. It's essentially impossible to communicate with them when they go there. And, as you critically point out, we now have a race to the bottom in terms of standards. THAT'S a predictable manifestation of this dishonest tactic.

 

[BluesLegend]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

The left project, after 8 years of 'but but but BOOOOOOOSH' the left can't say jack shit.

 

[Oldestyle]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

Exactly.

Like when Trump's cult were called to account after they stormed the Capitol, the response was "What about the summer riots?"

That sort of thing.

Toro, it is not illegitimate to bring up "the summer of love" because that is a situation where the double standard applies is that during last summer, there was ongoing rioting, and destruction throughout the summer, including an actual insurrection where leftists took over part of a city, including a police station....

I personally wish that on Jan 6th, those people didn't do what they did...Because it gave you leftists an out, to the damage you've done on the west coast, and continue to do...

The comparrisons are relevant....

That is a false equivalency. "Leftist" didn't take over police stations or a city. The people who did so identified with BLM.

Do you not see the contradiction in your thought here...."Leftists didn't take over...But, the people who did do that Identified with a leftist supported group"....Really?

They did so in response to police brutality. No Democratic lawmaker told them to do it and them doing it wasn't to further the interests of Democrats. What happened on the 6th was done because the president of the United States told people directly to try to stop the certification of the election results.

Um, no, and nothing offered by House managers this past week proved that true either....All they did was offer emotional arguments strung together with highly edited snipets of footage produced by Hollywood, that would have never passed the standards of proof in a court of law...Then they closed with the usual liberal threat of 'do what we want or we will label you in the future'....

Now, I have already said multiple times that what those protestors did on Jan 6th was wrong on every level, something you as a leftist have not to date done, nor will you ever do in the face of groups you support doing far worse for longer periods of time....

I didn't realize that condemning sitting on someone's neck until death was considered a left position?

As to contradictions. It's funny that you find distancing Democrats from a group of people protesting and rioting for a cause that is not political, not called for by Democrats for the simple reason that they mostly vote Democratic contradictory. While at the same time arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

One of us seems to have a bigger problem with contradictions. Who do you think that is?

Condemn it all you wish....But, when you cheer on the murder of police in the aftermath of that, it goes further than simple condemnation wouldn't you say?

And you can tout your narrative all you wish, he was just aqutted of your claim....So, it is baseless.

If you can find me anyone who "cheered on the murder of the police" feel free to give me the example.

He was acquitted because the majority that said he was guilty wasn't big enough. And for those that said he was not guilty, the majority aren't arguing that "my narrative" was wrong but rather that they don't feel they have the jurisdiction to do something about it. That is an entirely different argument.

"My narrative" is an accurate description of what happened and why.

There’s many quotes of prominent Democrats during and after leftist riots out west, where officers not only were injured, but died that said the violence must continue...Hell, our now VP, set up a fund to bail them out for Christ sake...

No, your narrative is bull shit trolling and you know it...

that said the violence must continue

Ok then with the recources of the entire internet at your disposal you'll have now problem giving an example. A statement like that deserves it.

Hell, our now VP, set up a fund to bail them out

Oh? That's news to me. You are of course capable of proving that? Or do you mean the Minnesota freedom fund? A non-profit most definitely not set up by Harris that has this mission statement. Minnesota Freedom Fund (mnfreedomfund.org).

No, your narrative is bull shit trolling and you know it...

arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

Feel free to point out what exactly here is incorrect?

I don't know what's sadder, Fork? That you don't know that people were cheering that Police were injured or that our main stream media is so bad at their jobs these days that you wouldn't know that happened!

 

[forkup]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

Exactly.

Like when Trump's cult were called to account after they stormed the Capitol, the response was "What about the summer riots?"

That sort of thing.

Toro, it is not illegitimate to bring up "the summer of love" because that is a situation where the double standard applies is that during last summer, there was ongoing rioting, and destruction throughout the summer, including an actual insurrection where leftists took over part of a city, including a police station....

I personally wish that on Jan 6th, those people didn't do what they did...Because it gave you leftists an out, to the damage you've done on the west coast, and continue to do...

The comparrisons are relevant....

That is a false equivalency. "Leftist" didn't take over police stations or a city. The people who did so identified with BLM.

Do you not see the contradiction in your thought here...."Leftists didn't take over...But, the people who did do that Identified with a leftist supported group"....Really?

They did so in response to police brutality. No Democratic lawmaker told them to do it and them doing it wasn't to further the interests of Democrats. What happened on the 6th was done because the president of the United States told people directly to try to stop the certification of the election results.

Um, no, and nothing offered by House managers this past week proved that true either....All they did was offer emotional arguments strung together with highly edited snipets of footage produced by Hollywood, that would have never passed the standards of proof in a court of law...Then they closed with the usual liberal threat of 'do what we want or we will label you in the future'....

Now, I have already said multiple times that what those protestors did on Jan 6th was wrong on every level, something you as a leftist have not to date done, nor will you ever do in the face of groups you support doing far worse for longer periods of time....

I didn't realize that condemning sitting on someone's neck until death was considered a left position?

As to contradictions. It's funny that you find distancing Democrats from a group of people protesting and rioting for a cause that is not political, not called for by Democrats for the simple reason that they mostly vote Democratic contradictory. While at the same time arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

One of us seems to have a bigger problem with contradictions. Who do you think that is?

Condemn it all you wish....But, when you cheer on the murder of police in the aftermath of that, it goes further than simple condemnation wouldn't you say?

And you can tout your narrative all you wish, he was just aqutted of your claim....So, it is baseless.

If you can find me anyone who "cheered on the murder of the police" feel free to give me the example.

He was acquitted because the majority that said he was guilty wasn't big enough. And for those that said he was not guilty, the majority aren't arguing that "my narrative" was wrong but rather that they don't feel they have the jurisdiction to do something about it. That is an entirely different argument.

"My narrative" is an accurate description of what happened and why.

There’s many quotes of prominent Democrats during and after leftist riots out west, where officers not only were injured, but died that said the violence must continue...Hell, our now VP, set up a fund to bail them out for Christ sake...

No, your narrative is bull shit trolling and you know it...

that said the violence must continue

Ok then with the recources of the entire internet at your disposal you'll have now problem giving an example. A statement like that deserves it.

Hell, our now VP, set up a fund to bail them out

Oh? That's news to me. You are of course capable of proving that? Or do you mean the Minnesota freedom fund? A non-profit most definitely not set up by Harris that has this mission statement. Minnesota Freedom Fund (mnfreedomfund.org).

No, your narrative is bull shit trolling and you know it...

arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

Feel free to point out what exactly here is incorrect?

I don't know what's sadder, Fork? That you don't know that people were cheering that Police were injured or that our main stream media is so bad at their jobs these days that you wouldn't know that happened!

Feel free to enlighten me then. Show me a single Democratic lawmaker who cheered or said the violence should continue as J-mac claimed. I'm not averse to anyone showing me wrong.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Feel free to enlighten me then. Show me a single Democratic lawmaker who cheered or said the violence should continue as J-mac claimed. I'm not averse to anyone showing me wrong.

I can show you examples of Democrats ignoring the violence, refusing to call out who is doing it, and doing things that support it... but I'm not J-mac, I don't know who J-mac is, so I'm not to be expected to fulfill any claim he made. If you want J-mac to show examples, ask them.

Like with Trump/GOP/Conservatives and the Capitol riot, no Democrat "cheered" the BLM riots.

Look at even your accusation of Trump and COVID. Despite Trump acting before prominent Democrats, your grievance was that Trump didn't act strongly enough. Well, Democrats absolutely did not condemn the violence strongly enough, if largely at all, didn't call out who was doing it, and at times supported it. For example:

Kamala Harris supported a group that bailed out violent rioters. Just imagine if Trump did that for the Capitol rioters! You, the media, the left, would have a conniption, and say it's proof he supported the violence. I think you know that. I would likewise agree, it would be supporting the violence if Trump did that, but he didn't, Kamala Harris did. She supported the violence by action, and nobody is batting an eye while pointing fingers at Trump for things far less direct and far more theoretical, assumption-based, and disconnected.

So what are your thoughts on Kamala Harris' actions?

 

[Mr. Friscus]

What you are saying is that if you can make a claim that candidate X on the left has acted a certain way (however wrong and I'd argue however imperfect the comparison) candidate Y on the right acting the same way is no longer wrong but just a "standard".

Do you see the fundamental flaw in that line of reasoning?

First off, I'm fine with trying to narrow our discussions. I enjoy debate with people who are civil and aren't just slinging the most radical conspiracy theories along with a series of insults.. which is why my ignore list is so wrong. LOL

My answer to this particular point is that pointing it out does not mean I support it. My issue is that Democrats, the media, aka "the left", act as if everything Trump does is absolutely unprecedented. They act as if pre-Trump politics were some happy, friendly atmosphere. Leading up to Trump we were absolutely exploding with divisiveness, and it showed in the Democrats behavior the moment Trump got into office and beyond, such as the sham continuation of Russian collusion for years, the Salem witch trial of Brett Kavanaugh (the worst, nastiest political spectical of my lifetime), etc.

Take the "throwing kids in cages" issue. A single picture sparked this, and it was reported and proclaimed by the left as if Trump implemented this, and the photo was because of Trump's policies and immorality. The problem was, the policy was made by Barack Obama, and the picture was taken during his presidency. Yet, Democrats and media.. I don't abuse this term as many do.. lied by acting so shocked and appalled while assigning this supposed immorality solely to Trump while ignoring the facts that it wasn't even him. So if you were going to come at Trump, and i said "Well, what about the fact that it was Obama's policy"... I'd be setting a standard. Either putting illegal immigrants in a cage is wrong or its not. When nobody gives a crap while Obama does it, but then it's front page news and the center of attention when it happens under Trump.. it proves it's not about the morality, it's political, and it's another instance of the left failing to hold a standard.

I'm quite aware that it's not just the left that is guilty of this, but life is about ratios. While I'm a Conservative (so you can write off my perspective here if you want) I think the left is far less concerned with standards than the right. I think the left uses anything they can right now at the moment to use it as a political weapon. They don't care if they did it, or if it's immoral and dishonest to do so. They've declared that Trump and the GOP are so evil that any action is justified as long as it harms them. They can simply charge the action they also did and declare its an unprecedented occurrence. The compliant media will refuse to fact-check or "narrative-check" the claim, and the history will not be reported. The larger public won't know the distortion, and that's how this pseudo-knowledge from the left gets installed.

So yes, when claims are made, we need to be able to judge it against other examples to make sure we aren't just being political opportunists rather than honest seekers of holding all accountable. People say Trump saying "fight" is some call to violence, but Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, hell even MLK have all used the word. When a politician says "fight" for something, they clearly mean figuratively, not literally. I never said Barack Obama was guilty of inciting the murder of 6 officers by a BLM radical in Dallas after he had demonized the police as racists continually. Obama raised the temperature, but the BLM guy acted as an individual. It's the same when the Bernie Sanders supporter shot up the GOP softball game after Sanders called the GOP "murderers" for not supporting his gigantic healthcare plan. Sanders used inflammatory rhetoric, but he didn't incite the shooter. The same happened with Trump on January 6th. He used inflammatory rhetoric, but these idiots acted on their own. It's either Obama, Sanders, and Trump all incited, or none did. I side with the latter.

 

[Oldestyle]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

Exactly.

Like when Trump's cult were called to account after they stormed the Capitol, the response was "What about the summer riots?"

That sort of thing.

Toro, it is not illegitimate to bring up "the summer of love" because that is a situation where the double standard applies is that during last summer, there was ongoing rioting, and destruction throughout the summer, including an actual insurrection where leftists took over part of a city, including a police station....

I personally wish that on Jan 6th, those people didn't do what they did...Because it gave you leftists an out, to the damage you've done on the west coast, and continue to do...

The comparrisons are relevant....

That is a false equivalency. "Leftist" didn't take over police stations or a city. The people who did so identified with BLM.

Do you not see the contradiction in your thought here...."Leftists didn't take over...But, the people who did do that Identified with a leftist supported group"....Really?

They did so in response to police brutality. No Democratic lawmaker told them to do it and them doing it wasn't to further the interests of Democrats. What happened on the 6th was done because the president of the United States told people directly to try to stop the certification of the election results.

Um, no, and nothing offered by House managers this past week proved that true either....All they did was offer emotional arguments strung together with highly edited snipets of footage produced by Hollywood, that would have never passed the standards of proof in a court of law...Then they closed with the usual liberal threat of 'do what we want or we will label you in the future'....

Now, I have already said multiple times that what those protestors did on Jan 6th was wrong on every level, something you as a leftist have not to date done, nor will you ever do in the face of groups you support doing far worse for longer periods of time....

I didn't realize that condemning sitting on someone's neck until death was considered a left position?

As to contradictions. It's funny that you find distancing Democrats from a group of people protesting and rioting for a cause that is not political, not called for by Democrats for the simple reason that they mostly vote Democratic contradictory. While at the same time arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

One of us seems to have a bigger problem with contradictions. Who do you think that is?

Condemn it all you wish....But, when you cheer on the murder of police in the aftermath of that, it goes further than simple condemnation wouldn't you say?

And you can tout your narrative all you wish, he was just aqutted of your claim....So, it is baseless.

If you can find me anyone who "cheered on the murder of the police" feel free to give me the example.

He was acquitted because the majority that said he was guilty wasn't big enough. And for those that said he was not guilty, the majority aren't arguing that "my narrative" was wrong but rather that they don't feel they have the jurisdiction to do something about it. That is an entirely different argument.

"My narrative" is an accurate description of what happened and why.

There’s many quotes of prominent Democrats during and after leftist riots out west, where officers not only were injured, but died that said the violence must continue...Hell, our now VP, set up a fund to bail them out for Christ sake...

No, your narrative is bull shit trolling and you know it...

that said the violence must continue

Ok then with the recources of the entire internet at your disposal you'll have now problem giving an example. A statement like that deserves it.

Hell, our now VP, set up a fund to bail them out

Oh? That's news to me. You are of course capable of proving that? Or do you mean the Minnesota freedom fund? A non-profit most definitely not set up by Harris that has this mission statement. Minnesota Freedom Fund (mnfreedomfund.org).

No, your narrative is bull shit trolling and you know it...

arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

Feel free to point out what exactly here is incorrect?

I don't know what's sadder, Fork? That you don't know that people were cheering that Police were injured or that our main stream media is so bad at their jobs these days that you wouldn't know that happened!

Feel free to enlighten me then. Show me a single Democratic lawmaker who cheered or said the violence should continue as J-mac claimed. I'm not averse to anyone showing me wrong.

Tell me how this works, Fork. If you're a Democratic lawmaker and you support BLM and Antifa and they attack the Police...aren't you supporting the actions that they're taking? If you're Kamala Harris and you support a fund that's bailing out violent protesters only to have them return to violent protest...how are you NOT supporting violent protest?

 

[bripat9643]

Conservatives are the masters of the red herring fallacy, engaging in failed attempts to deflect when they can't defend the indefensible.

As always, you wouldn't know a logical fallacy if someone hit you over the head with it.

 

[forkup]

You see the left calling any attempt to establish a standard as a "whataboutism".

Exactly.

Like when Trump's cult were called to account after they stormed the Capitol, the response was "What about the summer riots?"

That sort of thing.

Toro, it is not illegitimate to bring up "the summer of love" because that is a situation where the double standard applies is that during last summer, there was ongoing rioting, and destruction throughout the summer, including an actual insurrection where leftists took over part of a city, including a police station....

I personally wish that on Jan 6th, those people didn't do what they did...Because it gave you leftists an out, to the damage you've done on the west coast, and continue to do...

The comparrisons are relevant....

That is a false equivalency. "Leftist" didn't take over police stations or a city. The people who did so identified with BLM.

Do you not see the contradiction in your thought here...."Leftists didn't take over...But, the people who did do that Identified with a leftist supported group"....Really?

They did so in response to police brutality. No Democratic lawmaker told them to do it and them doing it wasn't to further the interests of Democrats. What happened on the 6th was done because the president of the United States told people directly to try to stop the certification of the election results.

Um, no, and nothing offered by House managers this past week proved that true either....All they did was offer emotional arguments strung together with highly edited snipets of footage produced by Hollywood, that would have never passed the standards of proof in a court of law...Then they closed with the usual liberal threat of 'do what we want or we will label you in the future'....

Now, I have already said multiple times that what those protestors did on Jan 6th was wrong on every level, something you as a leftist have not to date done, nor will you ever do in the face of groups you support doing far worse for longer periods of time....

I didn't realize that condemning sitting on someone's neck until death was considered a left position?

As to contradictions. It's funny that you find distancing Democrats from a group of people protesting and rioting for a cause that is not political, not called for by Democrats for the simple reason that they mostly vote Democratic contradictory. While at the same time arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

One of us seems to have a bigger problem with contradictions. Who do you think that is?

Condemn it all you wish....But, when you cheer on the murder of police in the aftermath of that, it goes further than simple condemnation wouldn't you say?

And you can tout your narrative all you wish, he was just aqutted of your claim....So, it is baseless.

If you can find me anyone who "cheered on the murder of the police" feel free to give me the example.

He was acquitted because the majority that said he was guilty wasn't big enough. And for those that said he was not guilty, the majority aren't arguing that "my narrative" was wrong but rather that they don't feel they have the jurisdiction to do something about it. That is an entirely different argument.

"My narrative" is an accurate description of what happened and why.

There’s many quotes of prominent Democrats during and after leftist riots out west, where officers not only were injured, but died that said the violence must continue...Hell, our now VP, set up a fund to bail them out for Christ sake...

No, your narrative is bull shit trolling and you know it...

that said the violence must continue

Ok then with the recources of the entire internet at your disposal you'll have now problem giving an example. A statement like that deserves it.

Hell, our now VP, set up a fund to bail them out

Oh? That's news to me. You are of course capable of proving that? Or do you mean the Minnesota freedom fund? A non-profit most definitely not set up by Harris that has this mission statement. Minnesota Freedom Fund (mnfreedomfund.org).

No, your narrative is bull shit trolling and you know it...

arguing that Trump wasn't responsible for a group of people who presumably all vote for Trump that committed actions in the name of Trump, for a cause that literally was keeping Trump in office at the place Trump directed them to go.

Feel free to point out what exactly here is incorrect?

I don't know what's sadder, Fork? That you don't know that people were cheering that Police were injured or that our main stream media is so bad at their jobs these days that you wouldn't know that happened!

Feel free to enlighten me then. Show me a single Democratic lawmaker who cheered or said the violence should continue as J-mac claimed. I'm not averse to anyone showing me wrong.

Tell me how this works, Fork. If you're a Democratic lawmaker and you support BLM and Antifa and they attack the Police...aren't you supporting the actions that they're taking? If you're Kamala Harris and you support a fund that's bailing out violent protesters only to have them return to violent protest...how are you NOT supporting violent protest?

That very much depends. See, I support reforming the police. I think that police procedure that allows for something like George Floyd, or allows for no-knock warrants and doesn't allow for people to get compensation when obvious errors, often fatal errors occur should be revisited. I also support the right to protests peacefully, for both those protesting in the summer and during January 6th.

What I don't support is violence or rioting and there are as far as I know zero people in public office on the Democratic side that do. It's the same argument that's being made on behalf of Trump.

The difference is to me that the reason for the protest in the case of January 6th was solely a result of actions by Trump. Not an event that exacerbated previous tensions.
The difference to me is that I do not believe Trump actually doesn't support violence when it's in his interest. The reason for that is that unlike you I think, I can show Trump NOT going after the protesters but after Pence when the riots were occurring and when he did call for the rioters (insurrectionists) to withdraw what he did was be very ambiguous with them going even so far as to say to he loved them. It was only after it was clear that the public opinion was shown to be negative that he did so.

I'm prepared if you want to back up what I say using public statements by Trump to back up what I claim. I want you to do the same. That's how it works when certain statements are being questioned.

 

[forkup]

Feel free to enlighten me then. Show me a single Democratic lawmaker who cheered or said the violence should continue as J-mac claimed. I'm not averse to anyone showing me wrong.

I can show you examples of Democrats ignoring the violence, refusing to call out who is doing it, and doing things that support it... but I'm not J-mac, I don't know who J-mac is, so I'm not to be expected to fulfill any claim he made. If you want J-mac to show examples, ask them.

Like with Trump/GOP/Conservatives and the Capitol riot, no Democrat "cheered" the BLM riots.

Look at even your accusation of Trump and COVID. Despite Trump acting before prominent Democrats, your grievance was that Trump didn't act strongly enough. Well, Democrats absolutely did not condemn the violence strongly enough, if largely at all, didn't call out who was doing it, and at times supported it. For example:

Kamala Harris supported a group that bailed out violent rioters. Just imagine if Trump did that for the Capitol rioters! You, the media, the left, would have a conniption, and say it's proof he supported the violence. I think you know that. I would likewise agree, it would be supporting the violence if Trump did that, but he didn't, Kamala Harris did. She supported the violence by action, and nobody is batting an eye while pointing fingers at Trump for things far less direct and far more theoretical, assumption-based, and disconnected.

So what are your thoughts on Kamala Harris' actions?

I have asked them. Both of them.