Why Haven't Obama's Policies Helped The Economy?

[Ropey]

Because the economy is bigger than any president. The global economy is as big as the globe. The method of financially floating the world economy has been damaged by the 'restructuring' of loans and insuring them with default swapping (packaging) tricks.

Warren Buffet said it clearly. He said to think of it like the world is swimming in the Ocean's beaches. Everyone looks fine and all are able to keep their heads above the water.

But it's only when the tide goes out does one find out who is swimming without trunks.

So a depression is necessary to find out who's nude. What is happening now and has been happening since the failure of the Western financial method is a band-aid solution in the hopes that the economy will kick start itself.

When no one knows the values. Banks do not lend.

Both Democrat and Republican presidents were heavily lobbied through the decades for this to occur. The proof is the dot.com --> Savings & Loans --> Credit Default Swapping (with embedded risk insurance on the entire package and not the individual entities of the default swaps.)

This is far bigger than any President.

 

[expat_panama]

...GW Bush, unemployment averaged 5.3% and annualized gdp growth was 3.5%. With Obama unemployment's been 9.3% and gdp growth is 1.6%. How can you say Obama is copying Bush?

Let me help you with an analogy.

A man walks out to the end of a pier and steps off the edge, carrying another man on his shoulders. As he sinks below the waves, he boosts the other man off his shoulders and into the water. The other man sinks to the bottom and begins to walk in the same direction, away from the pier.

Does that clarify matters, or do I need to explain the analogy?

Better still, how about we just look at Bush and Obama's contrasting tax/regulatory policies along with their dramatically diverging resultant impacts on the labor market.

 

[The Rabbi]

...GW Bush, unemployment averaged 5.3% and annualized gdp growth was 3.5%. With Obama unemployment's been 9.3% and gdp growth is 1.6%. How can you say Obama is copying Bush?

Let me help you with an analogy.

A man walks out to the end of a pier and steps off the edge, carrying another man on his shoulders. As he sinks below the waves, he boosts the other man off his shoulders and into the water. The other man sinks to the bottom and begins to walk in the same direction, away from the pier.

Does that clarify matters, or do I need to explain the analogy?

Better still, how about we just look at Bush and Obama's contrasting tax/regulatory policies along with their dramatically diverging resultant impacts on the labor market.

Aw c'mon. That would be too logical.
It's much better to engage in stupid analogies, like driving cars off cliffs etc than look at actual facts.

The truth is that Obama inherited a recession that had bottomed out. He should have reaped a recovery with robust growth, which is historically the case. But this has been the most anemic recovery on record, coupled with the highest rate of gov't intervention in the economy. And those two things are not accidental.

 

[Brutus]

Obama does not control the price of gas. Get it now?

well, he must think he does. That is why he released huge supplies from the strategic petroleum reserve.

 

[The Rabbi]

Obama does not control the price of gas. Get it now?

well, he must think he does. That is why he released huge supplies from the strategic petroleum reserve.

G-d only knows what that man thinks. I am still in the dark as to any rationale why you would release gasoline from strategic reserves in the face of declining prices.

 

[Brutus]

Obama does not control the price of gas. Get it now?

well, he must think he does. That is why he released huge supplies from the strategic petroleum reserve.

G-d only knows what that man thinks. I am still in the dark as to any rationale why you would release gasoline from strategic reserves in the face of declining prices.

Yes, the man is crazy. I think its like cash for clunkers. He eased the pain for a day with a stupid liberal program and somehow thats a victory despite making the longer term worse.

 

[The Rabbi]

well, he must think he does. That is why he released huge supplies from the strategic petroleum reserve.

G-d only knows what that man thinks. I am still in the dark as to any rationale why you would release gasoline from strategic reserves in the face of declining prices.

Yes, the man is crazy. I think its like cash for clunkers. He eased the pain for a day with a stupid liberal program and somehow thats a victory despite making the longer term worse.

Cash for Clunkers was among the worst programs ever. It didn't do anything it was sold as doing and created a lot of unintended harms. Or maybe they were intended after all.

 

[daveman]

Ok, I realize this is probably not going anywhere, but I'll give it another shot.

Firehose's claim was that Obama's policies MUST have hurt the economy, because gas is up. Stupid on a number of levels, but let's analyze.

Needless to say, there's a number of factors that influence the price of gas - Perhaps too many to list. None of them are a president's magic wand, or a president's sheer will - I think we all agree on that.

The biggest influence is the price of crude - Which was $46 in early '09, and now is hovering around $88. I think we can all agree on that as well.

The DJIA was hovering around 8000 at that time, and is now at around 11500 - Do we agree on that as well?

So we agree that a number of factors impact gas prices, and I think we agree that crude is the biggest contributing factor.

So the question is: Is a rising gas price axiomatic with a declining economy? Or an improving economy?

That's why I said the original post in question was (and is) retarded. Shame on you for trying to frame it otherwise.

So...you're not going to answer my question. Why is that?

You haven't exactly addressed mine, but sure government policy can impact the market... But we're not talking about a market that's down compared to early 2009, we're talking about one that's up.

Now me. Outside influences (which I think we agree exist) aside, is higher gas axiomatic to a better economy? Or a worse economy?

*looks at bank account, looks at UE numbers*

Yeah. The economy's just roaring along, ain't it?

 

[daveman]

Let me help you with an analogy.

A man walks out to the end of a pier and steps off the edge, carrying another man on his shoulders. As he sinks below the waves, he boosts the other man off his shoulders and into the water. The other man sinks to the bottom and begins to walk in the same direction, away from the pier.

Does that clarify matters, or do I need to explain the analogy?

Better still, how about we just look at Bush and Obama's contrasting tax/regulatory policies along with their dramatically diverging resultant impacts on the labor market.

Aw c'mon. That would be too logical.
It's much better to engage in stupid analogies, like driving cars off cliffs etc than look at actual facts.

The truth is that Obama inherited a recession that had bottomed out. He should have reaped a recovery with robust growth, which is historically the case. But this has been the most anemic recovery on record, coupled with the highest rate of gov't intervention in the economy. And those two things are not accidental.

The Recoveryless Recovery.

 

[Ropey]

Better still, how about we just look at Bush and Obama's contrasting tax/regulatory policies along with their dramatically diverging resultant impacts on the labor market.

Aw c'mon. That would be too logical.
It's much better to engage in stupid analogies, like driving cars off cliffs etc than look at actual facts.

The truth is that Obama inherited a recession that had bottomed out. He should have reaped a recovery with robust growth, which is historically the case. But this has been the most anemic recovery on record, coupled with the highest rate of gov't intervention in the economy. And those two things are not accidental.

The Recoveryless Recovery.

This will be the slowest American recovery ever. The bottom is yet to come.

The Western Financial structure must be restructured. America will restructure and that's the reason why America is so great.

America ties its debt to future purchases.

If the economy does not kick-start, then they will drop the value of the dollar. When Europe declines heavily then America will restructure by devaluing their dollar even more and minimizing future foreign purchases thus getting them both coming and going with protectionism and future devalued debt. But hopefully the economy kick-starts. With banks not knowing the true value of the packages they must all be unraveled.

Without this action I fail to see how an economy can financially bootstrap.

 

[Brutus]

no idea what on earth you are talking about. Devaluing games are just games that don't improve an economy. An economy improves with low taxes, a super stable dollar, and a capitalistic ethic

 

[Ropey]

no idea what on earth you are talking about. Devaluing games are just games that don't improve an economy. An economy improves with low taxes, a super stable dollar, and a capitalistic ethic

Financial Bootstrapping.

This is the US plan "B".

 

[daveman]

Aw c'mon. That would be too logical.
It's much better to engage in stupid analogies, like driving cars off cliffs etc than look at actual facts.

The truth is that Obama inherited a recession that had bottomed out. He should have reaped a recovery with robust growth, which is historically the case. But this has been the most anemic recovery on record, coupled with the highest rate of gov't intervention in the economy. And those two things are not accidental.

The Recoveryless Recovery.

This will be the slowest American recovery ever. The bottom is yet to come.

The Western Financial structure must be restructured. America will restructure and that's the reason why America is so great.

America ties its debt to future purchases.

If the economy does not kick-start, then they will drop the value of the dollar. When Europe declines heavily then America will restructure by devaluing their dollar even more and minimizing future foreign purchases thus getting them both coming and going with protectionism and future devalued debt. But hopefully the economy kick-starts. With banks not knowing the true value of the packages they must all be unraveled.

Without this action I fail to see how an economy can bootstrap.

I'm one of the lucky ones...I start a new job a week from tomorrow. And we'll be putting in an offer on a house soon after.

But not everyone is so lucky. And the government is only making things worse.

 

[Brutus]

no idea what on earth you are talking about. Devaluing games are just games that don't improve an economy. An economy improves with low taxes, a super stable dollar, and a capitalistic ethic

Financial Bootstrapping.

This is the US plan "B".

as I said a growing economy requires low taxes, stable dollar, and capitalistic ethic, all things liberals are opposed to.

 

[Ropey]

The Recoveryless Recovery.

This will be the slowest American recovery ever. The bottom is yet to come.

The Western Financial structure must be restructured. America will restructure and that's the reason why America is so great.

America ties its debt to future purchases.

If the economy does not kick-start, then they will drop the value of the dollar. When Europe declines heavily then America will restructure by devaluing their dollar even more and minimizing future foreign purchases thus getting them both coming and going with protectionism and future devalued debt. But hopefully the economy kick-starts. With banks not knowing the true value of the packages they must all be unraveled.

Without this action I fail to see how an economy can bootstrap.

I'm one of the lucky ones...I start a new job a week from tomorrow. And we'll be putting in an offer on a house soon after.

But not everyone is so lucky. And the government is only making things worse.

Both parties are making it worse. Because they have a plan "B" that is workable, they don't seem to care.

Who knows, they've likely got a "C" and "D". Yes, people will be hurt by this inability to get the banks to lend.

Rep or Dem will not be able to make the banks jar loose daveman. But (imo) hopefully the Reps have some better ideas.

 

[Brutus]

Rep or Dem will not be able to make the banks jar loose daveman. But (imo) hopefully the Reps have some better ideas.

it is absurd to imply Republicans and Democrats are the same when they have perfectly opposite philosophies. How could you not know that???

 

[daveman]

This will be the slowest American recovery ever. The bottom is yet to come.

The Western Financial structure must be restructured. America will restructure and that's the reason why America is so great.

America ties its debt to future purchases.

If the economy does not kick-start, then they will drop the value of the dollar. When Europe declines heavily then America will restructure by devaluing their dollar even more and minimizing future foreign purchases thus getting them both coming and going with protectionism and future devalued debt. But hopefully the economy kick-starts. With banks not knowing the true value of the packages they must all be unraveled.

Without this action I fail to see how an economy can bootstrap.

I'm one of the lucky ones...I start a new job a week from tomorrow. And we'll be putting in an offer on a house soon after.

But not everyone is so lucky. And the government is only making things worse.

Both parties are making it worse. Because they have a plan "B" that is workable, they don't seem to care.

Who knows, they've likely got a "C" and "D". Yes, people will be hurt by this inability to get the banks to lend.

Rep or Dem will not be able to make the banks jar loose daveman. But (imo) hopefully the Reps have some better ideas.

Banks know better than politicians whom to loan money to. The last time government made lending decisions, we had Barney Frank lying to us about the condition of the FMs.

 

[Ropey]

no idea what on earth you are talking about. Devaluing games are just games that don't improve an economy. An economy improves with low taxes, a super stable dollar, and a capitalistic ethic

Financial Bootstrapping.

This is the US plan "B".

as I said a growing economy requires low taxes, stable dollar, and capitalistic ethic, all things liberals are opposed to.

You need to pull yourself out of the dogma and realize that America is in financial trouble. Spouting politics will not deal with this. This is bigger than both parties and their financial/political ideologies which is the reason for the anti-political polls.

It transcends the parties by the financial special interests which are still in place. Heavy restructuring needs to come before small "C" Capitalism can begin.

When the small "C" Capitalism fails, America is in trouble. Banks are not lending and the small "C" is dying.

Regardless of the political posturing.

 

[Brutus]

This is bigger than both parties

exactly how can it be bigger than the Republican Party when the Republican Party believes in Capitalism?????

 

[Ropey]

This is bigger than both parties

exactly how can it be bigger than the Republican Party when the Republican Party believes in Capitalism?????

The engine that runs America is Capitalism. The ideology is a Republic founded on Democratic principles.

Capitalism is bigger than both of the parties. Think of it. The parties are four year terms with a maximal two term limit. How could one run the finances so haphazardly? Military, etc. etc.

Long term financial and military/ideological policies are created independently of the parties. Presidents and their parties are limited.

By the very definition of those limits it is clear that the road of the engine is primary and the process (small turns) secondary.