Why is faith important?

[Coloradomtnman]

When it comes to those who are religious, it seems faith is one of the most important aspects of their lives.

Let me just define it so we can have a basis on which to debate.

In the context of religious belief - faith (from Merriam-Webster): the firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

I am a peson without faith. I trust science, but like Reagan said to, I trust but verify. I don't believe in evolution, but because of overwhelming evidence across different scientific disciplines I am confident that evolution is the, so far, best explanation for the various forms of life and its behaviors. I don't believe in the big bang theory, but because of the overwhelming evidence across different scientific disciplines, I am confident that the theory is on the right track and is, so far, the best explanation for the evidence.

But when it comes to God, or any kind of supernatural phenomena (such as chakras, ghosts, healing energy, crystals, vibes, etc.), there is no preponderance of evidence. The evidence that can be used to support such beliefs, can also be explained with more than one hypothesis or theory. I do not have confidence in religious explanations for existence, life, or the stories and myths of religious origin.

Now, I'm making a clear distinction between faith, trust, and confidence. I have confidence in certain leading scientific theories. I trust scientists, but I verify. I do not have faith in either scientific theories or scientists. Or anything else for that matter.

But others do. Based on faith. They take that next leap from supporting evidence (whether that evidence is strong or the body thereof is robust) and perhaps personal experience and jump to absolute capital-T Truth. And then cite faith as the reason.

There are those who hold faith as an asset, as a value, and even as something that makes them a better person. There is an organization such as the Faith and Freedom Coalition, with faith as part of its title. There's an entire faith-based community.

So, why is faith important?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I guess it isn't that important...

 

[Avatar4321]

Faith is important because if we didn't have faith, no one would do anything. Every action we engage in is done because of some degree of faith. Faith is a principle of action.

 

[Granny]

Faith is a very personal thing, I think. In many ways it gives hope and happiness, it sustains people during very hard times, a very internal peace - very hard to explain.

I think one of the best examples I can give from my own experience is that as a child I prayed and prayed that God would let me find my Daddy. My parents were divorced and my mother refused to let anyone in my paternal family have any contact with me whatsoever. As a teenager I was angry - there were a few choice words I wanted to give my Dad when I found him - it was, of course, HIS fault that I was put in an orphanage. And I kept praying.

I always had this sense that I was running but not out of fear - sort of like breathing or having a heart beat - it's always there but we don't always actively think of it until there's a "burp" - someone knocks the breath out of you and you're gasping for that air or you have a sharp pain in your chest and your first thought is "heart attack."

As a young adult I finally made contact with my paternal grandmother and went to visit her and met all my Dad's siblings. Still didn't know where my Dad was and his family wasn't coming forward with any information. It was a couple years later that I contacted the military records department and asked if they had any information. They gave me the last address they had where his checks were being sent. I made contact and we did get together.

I don't know how to explain it, but it was like two magnets coming together, hugs and tears, it was all so wonderful ... and not a harsh word was spoken.

On the way home I said to my husband, "It's gone." He looked at me like I had lost my mind and asked, "What's gone?" I had to explain about the running thing I always had. I realized I was never running FROM something, but running TO something - and after I got back with my Dad it stopped and I've never had that feeling again since then.

God waited until He knew it was the right time for me - I truly believe that. We may want immediate answers to our prayers, but I believe God will sometimes wait awhile - or if our prayer was never meant to be, then it won't be answered - probably for a very good reason.

I have some issues and questions regarding Christ and religion in general - but God? You bet I believe in God.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Faith is important because if we didn't have faith, no one would do anything. Every action we engage in is done because of some degree of faith. Faith is a principle of action.

Could you explain that? I act, yet without faith.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Faith is a very personal thing, I think. In many ways it gives hope and happiness, it sustains people during very hard times, a very internal peace - very hard to explain.

I think one of the best examples I can give from my own experience is that as a child I prayed and prayed that God would let me find my Daddy. My parents were divorced and my mother refused to let anyone in my paternal family have any contact with me whatsoever. As a teenager I was angry - there were a few choice words I wanted to give my Dad when I found him - it was, of course, HIS fault that I was put in an orphanage. And I kept praying.

I always had this sense that I was running but not out of fear - sort of like breathing or having a heart beat - it's always there but we don't always actively think of it until there's a "burp" - someone knocks the breath out of you and you're gasping for that air or you have a sharp pain in your chest and your first thought is "heart attack."

As a young adult I finally made contact with my paternal grandmother and went to visit her and met all my Dad's siblings. Still didn't know where my Dad was and his family wasn't coming forward with any information. It was a couple years later that I contacted the military records department and asked if they had any information. They gave me the last address they had where his checks were being sent. I made contact and we did get together.

I don't know how to explain it, but it was like two magnets coming together, hugs and tears, it was all so wonderful ... and not a harsh word was spoken.

On the way home I said to my husband, "It's gone." He looked at me like I had lost my mind and asked, "What's gone?" I had to explain about the running thing I always had. I realized I was never running FROM something, but running TO something - and after I got back with my Dad it stopped and I've never had that feeling again since then.

God waited until He knew it was the right time for me - I truly believe that. We may want immediate answers to our prayers, but I believe God will sometimes wait awhile - or if our prayer was never meant to be, then it won't be answered - probably for a very good reason.

I have some issues and questions regarding Christ and religion in general - but God? You bet I believe in God.

That's a very touching anecdote, Granny, and I mean that genuinely. However, I don't understand what faith had to do with the conflict you felt or the eventual happy outcome. Why was faith important then, and why is it still important to you in that context?

 

[Granny]

I guess it was important to me as a child because I wanted my Dad so badly, so I kept asking. It's important to me now because I got what I wanted and believe that it was God who made it happen for me. What I found was the parent who loved me. Unlike tales from my mother, my Dad did not desert me - he just got the hell away from my mother. My mother was the parent who deserted me and didn't want any children in the first place. When I got out of her clutches my life became a lot better.

It was my mother who put me in the orphanage. Until 2 or so years ago I didn't know that it was never intended that I would come out of that place until I graduated from high school and went my own way. My Dad never knew I was in an orphanage. At some point in time there had been a custody battle over me and the judge told my parents if they didn't resolve the issue he would take me from both of them. I was a pawn - my Dad wanted me and my mother wanted money. Neither of them got what they wanted. My step-mother filled me in on a few things. I really, really liked her - she was a good person.

I've never cried so hard and so much as when my Dad died. I could literally feel his existence slipping out of my body. It was horrible. When my mother died I didn't shed a tear and didn't go to her funeral. I've never been to her grave site and don't want to go there.

 

[itfitzme]

Because life isn't a science experiment. So at some point, you just have to go with what you have.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Because life isn't a science experiment. So at some point, you just have to go with what you have.

Why do you have to go with what you have? Why not just remain uncertain or unsure? Why not go on with it with some doubt?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I guess it was important to me as a child because I wanted my Dad so badly, so I kept asking. It's important to me now because I got what I wanted and believe that it was God who made it happen for me. What I found was the parent who loved me. Unlike tales from my mother, my Dad did not desert me - he just got the hell away from my mother. My mother was the parent who deserted me and didn't want any children in the first place. When I got out of her clutches my life became a lot better.

It was my mother who put me in the orphanage. Until 2 or so years ago I didn't know that it was never intended that I would come out of that place until I graduated from high school and went my own way. My Dad never knew I was in an orphanage. At some point in time there had been a custody battle over me and the judge told my parents if they didn't resolve the issue he would take me from both of them. I was a pawn - my Dad wanted me and my mother wanted money. Neither of them got what they wanted. My step-mother filled me in on a few things. I really, really liked her - she was a good person.

I've never cried so hard and so much as when my Dad died. I could literally feel his existence slipping out of my body. It was horrible. When my mother died I didn't shed a tear and didn't go to her funeral. I've never been to her grave site and don't want to go there.

I don't want to get off subject, so I'm gonna just stick with the subject of the OP.

Couldn't another explanation be that because you wanted to find your dad, that eventually you did? And doesn't that explanation require less belief in an invisible super being directing your life than simply something as mundane as a personal desire you fulfilled? Doesn't that leave room for doubt?

 

[itfitzme]

Because life isn't a science experiment. So at some point, you just have to go with what you have.

Why do you have to go with what you have? Why not just remain uncertain or unsure? Why not go on with it with some doubt?

Heard the fable about the donkey that starved, standing equidistant between two equally delectable meals? At some point, you just have to pick one.

 

[itfitzme]

Because life isn't a science experiment. So at some point, you just have to go with what you have.

Why do you have to go with what you have? Why not just remain uncertain or unsure? Why not go on with it with some doubt?

Heard the fable about the donkey that starved, standing equidistant between two equally delectable meals? At some point, you just have to pick one.

 

[RoccoR]

Coloradomtnman, et al,

When Sir Isaac Newton was at Cambridge, science and the investigation of the nature world, was part and parcel an exploration into divine knowledge. That what we understand of the universe is acquiring knowledge from the Supreme Being.

So, why is faith important?

I guess it isn't that important...

(COMMENT)

Faith and Scientific endeavors are, in some respects, an examination into the power of the Supreme Being; he was an secret anti-trinitarian. Religion and Science are two parts of the same of the same study, to understand the cosmic nature of the universe, a handiwork of the creator.

Today, the man that wrote the Principia Mathematica (probably the greatest work ever published prior to Einstein, and still the the most important book ever written) thought of science in a very different way than science is thought of today. Today, the Three Laws in Newtonian Physics and Calculus, are required learning for scientists.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Derideo_Te]

When it comes to those who are religious, it seems faith is one of the most important aspects of their lives.

Let me just define it so we can have a basis on which to debate.

In the context of religious belief - faith (from Merriam-Webster): the firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

I am a peson without faith. I trust science, but like Reagan said to, I trust but verify. I don't believe in evolution, but because of overwhelming evidence across different scientific disciplines I am confident that evolution is the, so far, best explanation for the various forms of life and its behaviors. I don't believe in the big bang theory, but because of the overwhelming evidence across different scientific disciplines, I am confident that the theory is on the right track and is, so far, the best explanation for the evidence.

But when it comes to God, or any kind of supernatural phenomena (such as chakras, ghosts, healing energy, crystals, vibes, etc.), there is no preponderance of evidence. The evidence that can be used to support such beliefs, can also be explained with more than one hypothesis or theory. I do not have confidence in religious explanations for existence, life, or the stories and myths of religious origin.

Now, I'm making a clear distinction between faith, trust, and confidence. I have confidence in certain leading scientific theories. I trust scientists, but I verify. I do not have faith in either scientific theories or scientists. Or anything else for that matter.

But others do. Based on faith. They take that next leap from supporting evidence (whether that evidence is strong or the body thereof is robust) and perhaps personal experience and jump to absolute capital-T Truth. And then cite faith as the reason.

There are those who hold faith as an asset, as a value, and even as something that makes them a better person. There is an organization such as the Faith and Freedom Coalition, with faith as part of its title. There's an entire faith-based community.

So, why is faith important?

Faith is only important to those who have a need for something else to take responsibility for their lives. If you take responsibility for your own life then faith per se has little importance.

This is not intended as a disparagement of those for whom faith does play an important role in their lives. For them it plays a vital role in who they are as a person. However there is no requirement that someone must have faith in order to be a "good person". Plenty of people behind bars have faith and yes, they still ended up where they are. For them their faith played no role in stopping them from committing crimes. But the vast majority of "people of faith" are "good".

So faith is only as important as the value placed upon it by the individual concerned. For pragmatists like yourself it has little importance. For someone like Pope Francis his faith defines him as a person. Most people fall somewhere in between those two points when it comes to the importance of faith.

So since you asked, that is my opinion and it is worth every cent that you just paid for it.

 

[oldfart]

In the context of religious belief - faith (from Merriam-Webster): the firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

I am a peson without faith.

Some other posters have made the point that when you make decisions under conditions of uncertainty (is there any other kind?), some degree of faith is required. In that sense everyone who is not catatonic has faith.

But when it comes to God, or any kind of supernatural phenomena (such as chakras, ghosts, healing energy, crystals, vibes, etc.), there is no preponderance of evidence. The evidence that can be used to support such beliefs, can also be explained with more than one hypothesis or theory. I do not have confidence in religious explanations for existence, life, or the stories and myths of religious origin.

Now, I'm making a clear distinction between faith, trust, and confidence. I have confidence in certain leading scientific theories. I trust scientists, but I verify. I do not have faith in either scientific theories or scientists. Or anything else for that matter.

You have faith in your operating assumptions but simply don't recognize this is what you are doing. You have no faith in scientific theories, but you have confidence in them if they pass your concept of verification. This is faith in your verification process.

BTW what is your verification process? Logical consistency? Your own observation? Hypothesis testing? It could be that we are all delusional (in fact a pretty good argument is made that we must be to survive) in which case observation is not necessarily a guide to "reality". You have faith that your verification standards have some correlation with "reality". Try the following experiment: Ask ten people if they believe in UFO's, or ghosts, or angels. Chances are you will get about half yeses on each of these. Then ask people if they think there is evidence for their opinion. Most of them will also say yes. They have a different verification process than people (I assume including you) who do not accept these concepts.

But others do. Based on faith. They take that next leap from supporting evidence (whether that evidence is strong or the body thereof is robust) and perhaps personal experience and jump to absolute capital-T Truth. And then cite faith as the reason.

Oh Boy! When the discussion turns to "absolute capital-T Truth" I recommend running away as fast as my bandy short legs can carry me! So far in my life this type of phrase has been 100% of the time followed by something batshit crazy. BTW there is a great story about where "batshit crazy" comes from. If you haven't heard it already, remind me to tell it to you later.

I digress. Probability theory has a corollary that in a stochastic universe there is no state (other than one determined solely by definitions) that has a probability of either one or zero. IOW anything literally can happen. It's just that a large number of those things are exceedingly unlikely. As in the cumulative probability of them happening before the extinction of the universe is small.

So, why is faith important?

Faith is an integral part of decisionmaking, as discussed above. Further, every philosophical system that is non-trivial involves a leap of faith at some point. The trick is to make that leap wisely, accepting the minimum of disprovable hypotheses and generating the most useful guidance from observable data. Which is why I am a Taoist.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

In the context of religious belief - faith (from Merriam-Webster): the firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

I am a peson without faith.

Some other posters have made the point that when you make decisions under conditions of uncertainty (is there any other kind?), some degree of faith is required. In that sense everyone who is not catatonic has faith.

But when it comes to God, or any kind of supernatural phenomena (such as chakras, ghosts, healing energy, crystals, vibes, etc.), there is no preponderance of evidence. The evidence that can be used to support such beliefs, can also be explained with more than one hypothesis or theory. I do not have confidence in religious explanations for existence, life, or the stories and myths of religious origin.

You have faith in your operating assumptions but simply don't recognize this is what you are doing. You have no faith in scientific theories, but you have confidence in them if they pass your concept of verification. This is faith in your verification process.

BTW what is your verification process? Logical consistency? Your own observation? Hypothesis testing? It could be that we are all delusional (in fact a pretty good argument is made that we must be to survive) in which case observation is not necessarily a guide to "reality". You have faith that your verification standards have some correlation with "reality". Try the following experiment: Ask ten people if they believe in UFO's, or ghosts, or angels. Chances are you will get about half yeses on each of these. Then ask people if they think there is evidence for their opinion. Most of them will also say yes. They have a different verification process than people (I assume including you) who do not accept these concepts.

But others do. Based on faith. They take that next leap from supporting evidence (whether that evidence is strong or the body thereof is robust) and perhaps personal experience and jump to absolute capital-T Truth. And then cite faith as the reason.

Oh Boy! When the discussion turns to "absolute capital-T Truth" I recommend running away as fast as my bandy short legs can carry me! So far in my life this type of phrase has been 100% of the time followed by something batshit crazy. BTW there is a great story about where "batshit crazy" comes from. If you haven't heard it already, remind me to tell it to you later.

I digress. Probability theory has a corollary that in a stochastic universe there is no state (other than one determined solely by definitions) that has a probability of either one or zero. IOW anything literally can happen. It's just that a large number of those things are exceedingly unlikely. As in the cumulative probability of them happening before the extinction of the universe is small.

So, why is faith important?

Faith is an integral part of decisionmaking, as discussed above. Further, every philosophical system that is non-trivial involves a leap of faith at some point. The trick is to make that leap wisely, accepting the minimum of disprovable hypotheses and generating the most useful guidance from observable data. Which is why I am a Taoist.

Excellent reply and thank you.

A couple of things I want to address, and I would like to hear the story of the origin of bat shit crazy.

In your first paragraph, you point out that in an uncertain world one has to have faith in order to even make a decision. I think one could switch out the word faith and replace it with confidence or trust and have no change in the principle of the idea. And although that by itself would be an interesting conversation, I wanted to remain in the context of religious belief - or even belief in the foundational (lower case t) truths of the universe.
In this context, one can either remain in doubt about the how of the universe and especially the big why of the universe or assume that one's religious beliefs are the absolute capital T Truth of the why and the how is just part of the details and of no immediate real importance. One can remain unsure of the purpose of life, morality, what is of real value, quality, and continue to question everything for there is no such thing as righteousness and no one has a foundation for judgement or one believes that he/she is right and know already what is right for everyone else. I see that on these forums a lot and it is symptomatic of that kind of absolute truth belief, imo. Is there middle ground between those two positions? Yeah, I think so, but I see no purpose to it beyond the personal and emotional. I acknowledge that those are important but I need to be convinced of something before I accept it. I can not choose to believe.

And that brings me to the next point. I recognize that the process of verification of scientific knowledge is rigorous and need be in order to minimize bias, among other things. That is the same process I use when it comes to the big meaningful things about "life, the universe, and everything". Because of that, I remain unsure of what we as a species "know" about those things. And when it comes to there existing a being or force or will that governs the universe and our lives, my doubt is overwhelming. But even if my doubts weren't so great, and my skepticism so thorough of all things, how could I ever be convinced of a higher power without there being some doubt, even in the least? And if there is doubt, doesn't that make faith pointless?

Your last paragraph I understand and understood. What connection to faith and its importance am I missing in it?

I do appreciate your perception of this subject. It is one where my ignorance greatly outweighs my experience.

 

[Avatar4321]

Faith is important because if we didn't have faith, no one would do anything. Every action we engage in is done because of some degree of faith. Faith is a principle of action.

Could you explain that? I act, yet without faith.

Oh, Im confident you probably act with faith without realizing it. We are talking specifically about faith here, not faith in Diety.

For example, most people work by faith. They believe that by working they will obtain resources by which to survive. We don't have concrete proof our employer will have the money to pay us with, but we work nonetheless on the promise that they will.

A farmer plants seeds with no actual proof that that seed will grow. Even if they follow all the principles of farming, there is no certainty the crop will grow and survive to the harvest. Yet, they exercise faith to do the work with a hope for a future unseen reward.

Faith is just a principle of action in all of our lives.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Because life isn't a science experiment. So at some point, you just have to go with what you have.

Why do you have to go with what you have? Why not just remain uncertain or unsure? Why not go on with it with some doubt?

Heard the fable about the donkey that starved, standing equidistant between two equally delectable meals? At some point, you just have to pick one.

Not analogous to faith in a religious context or its importance.

 

[Granny]

Quote: Originally Posted by Coloradomtnman View Post
In the context of religious belief - faith (from Merriam-Webster): the firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

I am a peson without faith.
Some other posters have made the point that when you make decisions under conditions of uncertainty (is there any other kind?), some degree of faith is required. In that sense everyone who is not catatonic has faith.

Quote: Originally Posted by Coloradomtnman View Post
But when it comes to God, or any kind of supernatural phenomena (such as chakras, ghosts, healing energy, crystals, vibes, etc.), there is no preponderance of evidence. The evidence that can be used to support such beliefs, can also be explained with more than one hypothesis or theory. I do not have confidence in religious explanations for existence, life, or the stories and myths of religious origin.

If you have no faith in anything except what can be scientifically proven, why are you even interested in what others think and/or why? If you are absolutely, positively sure that only scientific proof means something "is" it shouldn't matter to you. On the other hand, if there's just this tiny, tiny little piece of curiosity, doubt, or whatever then it seems perhaps you aren't that absolutely, positively sure of the existence of something that can't be proven by scientific evidence.

Your OP was a question of "how and why" and when you get the views of other people I think you're looking for their answer to be something they can absolutely, positively prove to you so that you can see it in black and white before you will accept that “it“ exists.

Have you ever really sat back and looked at the Rocky Mountains and asked yourself if some divine spirit could have caused all the natural occurrences of earthquakes, water erosion and everything else that carved out that splendor? Have you ever looked at the leaves of a tree, or snowflakes and asked why each and every one of them are visibly DIFFERENT? Mankind sure as shit didn't do that. But an invisible being sure could have. Do I think the earth is billions of years old? I can’t prove that it isn’t but I also consider that early scribes had no concept of what “billions” were so they wrote in terms of what they knew at that time in history.

Look at the first chapter of Genesis in the Old Testament - the Adam and Eve story. I look at that as sort of an analogy instead of every single word being the absolute truth. Essentially, I believe that God created a perfect place - the “Garden of Eden” - and put perfect people in that utopian paradise to enjoy forever. Did Eve alone pick an apple off a tree in disobedience of God’s instruction not to do it? Was there really one apple tree with a snake in it tempting Eve? I don’t know. But what I think is that one (or several) of these perfect people decided to test God’s instructions and when they did the result is that they became imperfect and were forever banned from this paradise they had. Mankind is always trying to come up with some way to create this utopian world and it ain’t going to happen. No matter how much they try, mankind will never create some perfect paradise where everybody loves everybody else, etc.

Do I think mankind is descended from apes or ape men? Hell, no - and I don’t give a damn what Isaac Newton, Einstein, or Clarence Darrow believed - not my problem. I may think some people act like apes, but I don’t think it’s because they descended from apes. It’s because they want to act that way.

 

[theword]

When it comes to those who are religious, it seems faith is one of the most important aspects of their lives.

Let me just define it so we can have a basis on which to debate.

In the context of religious belief - faith (from Merriam-Webster): the firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

I am a peson without faith. I trust science, but like Reagan said to, I trust but verify. I don't believe in evolution, but because of overwhelming evidence across different scientific disciplines I am confident that evolution is the, so far, best explanation for the various forms of life and its behaviors. I don't believe in the big bang theory, but because of the overwhelming evidence across different scientific disciplines, I am confident that the theory is on the right track and is, so far, the best explanation for the evidence.

But when it comes to God, or any kind of supernatural phenomena (such as chakras, ghosts, healing energy, crystals, vibes, etc.), there is no preponderance of evidence. The evidence that can be used to support such beliefs, can also be explained with more than one hypothesis or theory. I do not have confidence in religious explanations for existence, life, or the stories and myths of religious origin.

Now, I'm making a clear distinction between faith, trust, and confidence. I have confidence in certain leading scientific theories. I trust scientists, but I verify. I do not have faith in either scientific theories or scientists. Or anything else for that matter.

But others do. Based on faith. They take that next leap from supporting evidence (whether that evidence is strong or the body thereof is robust) and perhaps personal experience and jump to absolute capital-T Truth. And then cite faith as the reason.

There are those who hold faith as an asset, as a value, and even as something that makes them a better person. There is an organization such as the Faith and Freedom Coalition, with faith as part of its title. There's an entire faith-based community.

So, why is faith important?

If it wasn't for the faith that God gave His prophets and saints to know Him with, no believers of their testimonies would exist.

Faith isn't given to men. God only made believers out of a few men who would trust the faith that us saints and prophets had.

No Christian ever had "faith" and most of them weren't made to believe the last faithful saint's testimonies of "Christ".