Why on Earth should Insurance companies have to cover pre-existing conditions?

[francoHFW]

The USPS has been sabotaged by the GOP to help their corporate sponsors.

 

[Occamstazer]

VERY VERY SIMPLE...
Two illustrations or examples for you!!

A) YOU are a smoker. I am not a smoker!
You lie on your application and say you are not a smoker!
I don't like because I'm not a smoker!
You get cancer as most smokers do. You file a claim for cancer treatment.
Insurance company checks with doctors and find YOU are a smoker!
They look on application and you lied when you said you were not!
This is called a "Pre-existing condition" dumb shit!
If you had been HONEST and said you were a smoker, they would have charged you more but still covered you dummy!
NOW you are SOL! EXCEPT now under Obama care.
They can't find out if you smoke or I don't smoke.
So guess what dummy... insurance company doesn't know if you or I smoke anymore so they raise the rates for both of us to smoker status!

NOW an even simpler example!!!
YOU fill out the application and when the question of mental health you say "fine".
I say fine on my application.
But you go into a voting booth pee on the floor are arrested and put into a crazy tank and then you file for insurance claim for the bruise on you head!
Company won't pay because "pre-existing condition" you are CRAZY!!!

Do you know understand "pre-existing condition"??? I don't think you do cause YOU ARE CRAZY!!!

Another simple example - without coverage on pre-existing conditions

I have a mammogram in 1990 which leads to a biopsy. Biopsy results are negative. The benign mass is removed.
I start work at a new job in 2004 with employer provided healthcare plan
I am diagnosed with breast cancer in 2009
Insurance company denies coverage based on a pre-existing "event"

That is also the definition of pre-existing condition.

 

[Occamstazer]

And look at it. It is horribly run, and is losing ground every day. They are in a multi-billion dollar problem and they raise postage stamps by a penny lol

They are a multi-billion dollar problem to whom? I use it every day. It helps me run my business.

Losing ground to who?

I think maybe being specific would create problems for your argument. Wanna try?

It can't. It doesn't know enough.

Republicans are trying to destroy the post office. They are doing it by the ingenious method of forcing them to fund ALL their pension 75 years into the future within the next 10 years. No organization or company in the world is required to do that.

So why are they doing it?

1. Voter suppression. Many Blue states, like Washington and Oregon vote primarily through the post office.

2. They could pass the business on to private companies who give money to Republicans.

3. Because they are ignorant slime and are constantly looking for ways to dismantle American institutions that work for greed and to hurt the Middle Class and Poor, two groups they despise.

Oh, and when was that passed? During the last GOP lame duck when Bush was president. All their other damage wasn't enough.

These Republicans may think differently when they find out UPS won't drive into their trailer parks to deliver their welfare checks into their mailboxes.

 

[healthmyths]

VERY VERY SIMPLE...
Two illustrations or examples for you!!

A) YOU are a smoker. I am not a smoker!
You lie on your application and say you are not a smoker!
I don't like because I'm not a smoker!
You get cancer as most smokers do. You file a claim for cancer treatment.
Insurance company checks with doctors and find YOU are a smoker!
They look on application and you lied when you said you were not!
This is called a "Pre-existing condition" dumb shit!
If you had been HONEST and said you were a smoker, they would have charged you more but still covered you dummy!
NOW you are SOL! EXCEPT now under Obama care.
They can't find out if you smoke or I don't smoke.
So guess what dummy... insurance company doesn't know if you or I smoke anymore so they raise the rates for both of us to smoker status!

NOW an even simpler example!!!
YOU fill out the application and when the question of mental health you say "fine".
I say fine on my application.
But you go into a voting booth pee on the floor are arrested and put into a crazy tank and then you file for insurance claim for the bruise on you head!
Company won't pay because "pre-existing condition" you are CRAZY!!!

Do you know understand "pre-existing condition"??? I don't think you do cause YOU ARE CRAZY!!!

Another simple example - without coverage on pre-existing conditions

I have a mammogram in 1990 which leads to a biopsy. Biopsy results are negative. The benign mass is removed.
I start work at a new job in 2004 with employer provided healthcare plan
I am diagnosed with breast cancer in 2009
Insurance company denies coverage based on a pre-existing "event"

That is also the definition of pre-existing condition.

YES that is true. Good definition.
But no where did you ever complain about the $850 billion in duplicate tests that ADD to the costs that make insurance companies have to figure
how to cover people like your self!

YOU and millions of people should be PISSED at the lawyers who have according to the experts, i.e. Doctors cost annually $850 billion in
DEFENSIVE medicine"... Do you comprehend that the insurance companies would NOT be as rigid as you and other people who are obviously lovers of ambulance chasing millionaire lawyers who cause simply out of fear of lawsuits $850 billion a year in unnecessary claims!
These claims ADD to the cost of premiums and as a result, YOU could have had insurance coverage if the insurance companies weren't having to pay off these duplicate, unnecessary tests, specialists' referrals,etc.. all because of fear of lawsuits!

Don't you get it?? You didn't mention at all that cost aspect and THAT is why you couldn't get your coverage!
NOT because of greedy insurance companies! People like you work at these companies and try to pay out what they can but when $850 billion in wasted duplicate claims are filed all by fear of lawsuits... THAT is where your anger should be!
Cut that figure in half and insurance companies CUT premiums, want people like you to be able to afford.
Remember without you around they don't make any money! They depend on premiums but if YOU were a risk as they saw it.. sure they excluded it!
BUT remember if they didn't have to blow $850 billion on defensive medicine claims... they would cover you!

 

[healthmyths]

That the government cannot run things is a myth.

True.

Medicare is a successful, well-run program, for example.

Conservative opposition to a single payer system is predicated solely on this myth.

OH what a dumb fucking statement...
WHAT city do you live in?
I will bet you $1,000 that the largest hospital in your city Overcharges Medicare easily 300% maybe 6,000% and because idiots like have no clue how medicare works!

For example I have access to all the Medicare payments made to 6,000 hospitals and I can tell you for a FACT in this example over 6,000% overcharge to Medicare by the hospital!

In 2009 the University Community Hospital in Tampa sent Medicare 2,110 claims for CAT scan no contrast.
Each claim averaged: $2,635 which is what was billed by the hospital to Medicare...
But the hospital's ACTUAL COSTS to perform the CAT SCAN was $43 a mark up 6,127.91%

6,127% MARKUP over costs! THIS IS REAL money being spent by Medicare and ALL because total idiots like you have NO clue specifically to a law passed in 1986 called EMTALA.
If you were smart enough you'd look it up but you aren't so here it is!!!
"In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) that if a hospital takes
Medicare,they have to regardless of an individual's ability to pay provide stabilizing treatment for patients..."

So this is why hospitals charge sometimes 6,000% above costs! Because idiots didn't think EMTALA through... just as they haven't thought Obamacare through!

 

[rdean]

That the government cannot run things is a myth.

True.

Medicare is a successful, well-run program, for example.

Conservative opposition to a single payer system is predicated solely on this myth.

OH what a dumb fucking statement...
WHAT city do you live in?
I will bet you $1,000 that the largest hospital in your city Overcharges Medicare easily 300% maybe 6,000% and because idiots like have no clue how medicare works!

For example I have access to all the Medicare payments made to 6,000 hospitals and I can tell you for a FACT in this example over 6,000% overcharge to Medicare by the hospital!

In 2009 the University Community Hospital in Tampa sent Medicare 2,110 claims for CAT scan no contrast.
Each claim averaged: $2,635 which is what was billed by the hospital to Medicare...
But the hospital's ACTUAL COSTS to perform the CAT SCAN was $43 a mark up 6,127.91%

6,127% MARKUP over costs! THIS IS REAL money being spent by Medicare and ALL because total idiots like you have NO clue specifically to a law passed in 1986 called EMTALA.
If you were smart enough you'd look it up but you aren't so here it is!!!
"In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) that if a hospital takes
Medicare,they have to regardless of an individual's ability to pay provide stabilizing treatment for patients..."

So this is why hospitals charge sometimes 6,000% above costs! Because idiots didn't think EMTALA through... just as they haven't thought Obamacare through!

You are so full of shit your eyeballs are brown.

No CT Scan is $43. First, it's an incredibly expensive piece of equipment. It's takes a lot of power to operate and a highly trained technician to maintain and in a room where the temperature and humidity are regulated.

If there is a "myth" about health care, it's the health care companies. CEO's making tens of millions for what? And how do they make it? By skimming policies and running death panels. They are "middle men". They are where the cost goes. How many policies need to be skimmed to pay for one CEO salary?

Sick for Profit - Insurance CEOs

Aetna CEO
Ronald A. Williams
2007 Compensation
$23 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$24,300,112
Total Value of Unexercised Options (Forbes)
$194,496,797
Williams is in the top
ten of Forbes'
"$100 Million CEO Club."

 

[emilynghiem]

Single payer system offering a basic level of care regardless of income or health condition. Upgrade to a health insurance plan if you can afford it.

Be willing to accept the possibility it may come down to paying for it in taxes to the government rather than in premiums to insurance companies.

Some anti-government types will be hatin' on this idea.

Fuck 'em, I say.

1. to be treated as a tax it should have been passed as one.
2. to be govt sponsored health care, it should be set up that way.
3. insurance is NOT the same as providing health care services, it should be an option
but not the only one. to mandate that as the only way besides the govt option is
where govt crosses the line. the opt-out exemptions were also too narrow and discriminate on the basis of govt regulation on religion!

the law would have been fair if it banned charging taxpayers for health care of
people who failed or refused to pay into the services (since the argument is that people were costing taxpayers more by abusing the ER to get free help instead of advance care)
and if taxpayers OPT to pay money to cover uninsured or people who can't pay, then there is that option and yes it could be offered in terms of mandated insurance.

then leave it to the people and states to be free to provide or finance health care
either using this system or another they deem more effective. there are OTHER more effective ways to cut costs of health care AND make it accessible or even FREE, such as combining public health services with student and resident internships in medical or nursing programs; integrating health and medical centers in public housing and prisons;
setting up clinics and service centers in facilities previously abused for trafficking
as part of the restitution owed to communities under RICO laws, etc.

 

[Political Junky]

True.

Medicare is a successful, well-run program, for example.

Conservative opposition to a single payer system is predicated solely on this myth.

OH what a dumb fucking statement...
WHAT city do you live in?
I will bet you $1,000 that the largest hospital in your city Overcharges Medicare easily 300% maybe 6,000% and because idiots like have no clue how medicare works!

For example I have access to all the Medicare payments made to 6,000 hospitals and I can tell you for a FACT in this example over 6,000% overcharge to Medicare by the hospital!

In 2009 the University Community Hospital in Tampa sent Medicare 2,110 claims for CAT scan no contrast.
Each claim averaged: $2,635 which is what was billed by the hospital to Medicare...
But the hospital's ACTUAL COSTS to perform the CAT SCAN was $43 a mark up 6,127.91%

6,127% MARKUP over costs! THIS IS REAL money being spent by Medicare and ALL because total idiots like you have NO clue specifically to a law passed in 1986 called EMTALA.
If you were smart enough you'd look it up but you aren't so here it is!!!
"In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) that if a hospital takes
Medicare,they have to regardless of an individual's ability to pay provide stabilizing treatment for patients..."

So this is why hospitals charge sometimes 6,000% above costs! Because idiots didn't think EMTALA through... just as they haven't thought Obamacare through!

You are so full of shit your eyeballs are brown.

No CT Scan is $43. First, it's an incredibly expensive piece of equipment. It's takes a lot of power to operate and a highly trained technician to maintain and in a room where the temperature and humidity are regulated.

If there is a "myth" about health care, it's the health care companies. CEO's making tens of millions for what? And how do they make it? By skimming policies and running death panels. They are "middle men". They are where the cost goes. How many policies need to be skimmed to pay for one CEO salary?

Sick for Profit - Insurance CEOs

Aetna CEO
Ronald A. Williams
2007 Compensation
$23 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$24,300,112
Total Value of Unexercised Options (Forbes)
$194,496,797
Williams is in the top
ten of Forbes'
"$100 Million CEO Club."

Somehow cons can rationalize paying those salaries, as well as their high premiums, all in the name of free enterprise.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's why we need single-payer. Check out the Canadian system. It's a good example.

Of why we shouldn't have single payer? Because, the last time I checked, Canada was moving allowing private insurance, not that you are going to let facts influence your delusional thinking.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's why we need single-payer. Check out the Canadian system. It's a good example.

I could agree to something that worked best for everyone. That is why I am against obamacare, or Romneycare for that matter.

Canadian system works pretty well. They're more satisfied with it than Americans have been under our system. Still to be determined if we'll like ACA. The major problem with the situation, as I see it, is that we've still got insurance companies involved. When you have a situation where everybody's going to eventually need benefits, it's going to be rife with corruption when the profit motive's on the line.

That was funny when you factor in that most Americans are completely satisfied with our system and Canadians routinely cross the border to get health care here.

 

[uscitizen]

I agree re the op ed. But by the same token, if you get diagnosed with a 'condition' after you have signed up with the insurance company, they shouldn't be able to start changing the rules to suit...

AND THEY CAN'T unless they find you have LIED for example said you weren't a smoker and then you get cancer and they find out oh.oh...

AND people are so ignorant about insurance companies as to WHY THEY HAVE to make a profit which averages about 4.6% BEFORE Taxes is because state insurance regulations require RESERVES which only come from PROFITS!!!

NO reserves can be created unless there are profits and states require if you sell insurance you can pay the claims!!!

Why profit should not figure into health insurance.
A single payor system is what is needed.

 

[uscitizen]

That's why we need single-payer. Check out the Canadian system. It's a good example.

Of why we shouldn't have single payer? Because, the last time I checked, Canada was moving allowing private insurance, not that you are going to let facts influence your delusional thinking.

Ohh other system like in France "allow" private health insurance as well.

 

[Claudette]

All I can say is that if anyone thinks the ACA is going to be affordable then they are delusional.

This bill is going to cost all of us who pay for our beni's or buy our own insurance up the ass.

Guess we'll see who's right when the thing is fully in place. Hope I'm wrong but I seriously doubt it.

Anything the Govt sticks its big fat nose in is anything but better or cheaper. Loads of paperwork and red tape and get ready for those panels and waiting lists.

 

[konradv]

I could agree to something that worked best for everyone. That is why I am against obamacare, or Romneycare for that matter.

Canadian system works pretty well. They're more satisfied with it than Americans have been under our system. Still to be determined if we'll like ACA. The major problem with the situation, as I see it, is that we've still got insurance companies involved. When you have a situation where everybody's going to eventually need benefits, it's going to be rife with corruption when the profit motive's on the line.

That was funny when you factor in that most Americans are completely satisfied with our system and Canadians routinely cross the border to get health care here.

Cites?

 

[FJO]

That's why we need single-payer. Check out the Canadian system. It's a good example.

There is no real "Canadian System". Health care in Canada varies from province to province.

 

[rdean]

OH what a dumb fucking statement...
WHAT city do you live in?
I will bet you $1,000 that the largest hospital in your city Overcharges Medicare easily 300% maybe 6,000% and because idiots like have no clue how medicare works!

For example I have access to all the Medicare payments made to 6,000 hospitals and I can tell you for a FACT in this example over 6,000% overcharge to Medicare by the hospital!

In 2009 the University Community Hospital in Tampa sent Medicare 2,110 claims for CAT scan no contrast.
Each claim averaged: $2,635 which is what was billed by the hospital to Medicare...
But the hospital's ACTUAL COSTS to perform the CAT SCAN was $43 a mark up 6,127.91%

6,127% MARKUP over costs! THIS IS REAL money being spent by Medicare and ALL because total idiots like you have NO clue specifically to a law passed in 1986 called EMTALA.
If you were smart enough you'd look it up but you aren't so here it is!!!
"In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) that if a hospital takes
Medicare,they have to regardless of an individual's ability to pay provide stabilizing treatment for patients..."

So this is why hospitals charge sometimes 6,000% above costs! Because idiots didn't think EMTALA through... just as they haven't thought Obamacare through!

You are so full of shit your eyeballs are brown.

No CT Scan is $43. First, it's an incredibly expensive piece of equipment. It's takes a lot of power to operate and a highly trained technician to maintain and in a room where the temperature and humidity are regulated.

If there is a "myth" about health care, it's the health care companies. CEO's making tens of millions for what? And how do they make it? By skimming policies and running death panels. They are "middle men". They are where the cost goes. How many policies need to be skimmed to pay for one CEO salary?

Sick for Profit - Insurance CEOs

Aetna CEO
Ronald A. Williams
2007 Compensation
$23 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$24,300,112
Total Value of Unexercised Options (Forbes)
$194,496,797
Williams is in the top
ten of Forbes'
"$100 Million CEO Club."

Somehow cons can rationalize paying those salaries, as well as their high premiums, all in the name of free enterprise.

Not just in health care. 50 or 60 years ago, a CEO's pay averaged about 30 or 40 times the salary of the average worker. They paid more taxes. More people were employed.

Now they make 300 to 400 times the average worker or more. Republicans think if we can just pay them more and redistribute more wealth to them, they will "create jobs" because they are the "job creators". We just haven't moved quite enough money into their pockets. Oh, but it will happen. Just keep shoveling it their way.

 

[TNHarley]

You are so full of shit your eyeballs are brown.

No CT Scan is $43. First, it's an incredibly expensive piece of equipment. It's takes a lot of power to operate and a highly trained technician to maintain and in a room where the temperature and humidity are regulated.

If there is a "myth" about health care, it's the health care companies. CEO's making tens of millions for what? And how do they make it? By skimming policies and running death panels. They are "middle men". They are where the cost goes. How many policies need to be skimmed to pay for one CEO salary?

Sick for Profit - Insurance CEOs

Aetna CEO
Ronald A. Williams
2007 Compensation
$23 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$24,300,112
Total Value of Unexercised Options (Forbes)
$194,496,797
Williams is in the top
ten of Forbes'
"$100 Million CEO Club."

Somehow cons can rationalize paying those salaries, as well as their high premiums, all in the name of free enterprise.

Not just in health care. 50 or 60 years ago, a CEO's pay averaged about 30 or 40 times the salary of the average worker. They paid more taxes. More people were employed.

Now they make 300 to 400 times the average worker or more. Republicans think if we can just pay them more and redistribute more wealth to them, they will "create jobs" because they are the "job creators". We just haven't moved quite enough money into their pockets. Oh, but it will happen. Just keep shoveling it their way.

And in the top 5 of CEO's like that, was one that WE bailed out, who BTW< has yet to pay us back. Ceo's should make they want. It is THEIR company. If they want to hoard their money, so be it. Like I said, it is THEIRS. NOt that any of you libs know what that means. Why don't you ask USPS chairman why he makes 400,000 a year and they are cutting jobs, delivery days etc

 

[kwc57]

Single payer system offering a basic level of care regardless of income or health condition. Upgrade to a health insurance plan if you can afford it.

Be willing to accept the possibility it may come down to paying for it in taxes to the government rather than in premiums to insurance companies.

Some anti-government types will be hatin' on this idea.

Fuck 'em, I say.

I support government funding a tax exempt, non-profit organization to provide health care.

Me too, because liberals will join it and we will have a nice thinning of the herd.

 

[Duped]

Insurance companies should not be required to cover pre existing conditions - that is not insurance; that is redistribution / Obamanism!

 

[oldfart]

If you advocate we in the United States completely abandon the free market model that has worked for over 200 years....

As noted elsewhere on this thread, the health insurance industry had its beginnings in the 1940's. Unless you are in a time warp, I fail to see how this provides "over 200 years" of any kind of experience.