Will libs fight to pull the plug on this girl

[Vox]

I think that's what they call a strawman.

AKA, ask someone who has literally been left destitute by medical bills.

Feel free to find me anyone in this country that has been left destitute by medical bills. It should be easy, unless, of course, everyone that sneers at the claim that medical bills cause more bankruptcies than anything else are right.

What a stupid thing to say. The biggest cause of bankruptcy is medical bills. People lose a lot more than their money. They lose their lives.

To the right, money is worth way more than a lousy human life - especially if its a child. They don't vote, you know.

except it as the flaming leftard noomi who is constantly complaining on the COSTS of letting this poor BLACK dead girl to still be on a vent for couple of more days - all the RW here were exactly on the opposite side.

And it is always her and other leftists who talk about money-money-money and saving costs by killing people and children. ALWAYS. The left is obsessed with killing humans and MONEY.

 

[mskafka]

YEOW, Vox....Physician, Nurse anesthetist, Practitioner, PA?

I learned a lot of triads, acronyms, formulas, calculations, and the Rule of Nines....but I never learned that formula. Are you holding out on us?

I thought that was what you were..."getting at"; how well the fetus is being perfused during CPR. But "abnormal CPR":

I've seen actions similar to this, in peoples' homes:

[ame=http://youtu.be/4ad3qlEpBv0?t=1m40s]Dumb & Dumber: I know CPR. - YouTube[/ame]

Now back to the OP; I just don't think that I can have an objective opinion, until I know all of the facts

 

[mskafka]

Guys....is the name-calling really necessary? She has her opinion, you have yours.

 

[Katzndogz]

Is it generally recognized that the decision to kill the baby belongs to the woman alone as her choice? Men do not get a say as to whether a baby should be killed.

If this woman had wanted to kill her baby she would have had an abortion.

The last thought she had was that her baby live.

Either it's a woman's choice or not.

I've known "prochoice" women say that men should have no voice concerning abortion, it's the mother's choice only.

Then it's decision made. The mother's last expressed desire controls.

 

[Vox]

YEOW, Vox....Physician, Nurse anesthetist, Practitioner, PA?

I learned a lot of triads, acronyms, formulas, calculations, and the Rule of Nines....but I never learned that formula. Are you holding out on us?

I thought that was what you were..."getting at"; how well the fetus is being perfused during CPR. But "abnormal CPR":

I've seen actions similar to this, in peoples' homes:

Dumb & Dumber: I know CPR. - YouTube

Now back to the OP; I just don't think that I can have an objective opinion, until I know all of the facts

Physician.

I just read your link and referred to the information in it. They compared that ratio of perfusing the brain of the fetus to the newborn's EEGs. Since the fetuses all have had abnormal hearts, the perfusion was impaired. Which later was reflected in the EEGs of the newborns.
So the CPratio can be measured in this particular baby in the womb, but since the baby is normally developing and her heart is not with anomalies, I do not see any reason the CPratios have to be abnormal as well.
Still does not have a predictive value of the cognitive functions of the baby later in life. And that is where we started of - is there a possibility of the verifiable measurement of the baby in utero NOW at 18-20 weeks to predict the cognitive function later.

 

[mskafka]

YEOW, Vox....Physician, Nurse anesthetist, Practitioner, PA?

I learned a lot of triads, acronyms, formulas, calculations, and the Rule of Nines....but I never learned that formula. Are you holding out on us?

I thought that was what you were..."getting at"; how well the fetus is being perfused during CPR. But "abnormal CPR":

I've seen actions similar to this, in peoples' homes:

Dumb & Dumber: I know CPR. - YouTube

Now back to the OP; I just don't think that I can have an objective opinion, until I know all of the facts

Physician.

Yes. I wanted to be a physician at 8; but there were 2 problems:

1. I stopped paying attention in class, because I'd learned said subject 2-3 days before. The teacher tried to get the parents to move me up a grade or two. Nope!
2. So music composition, dirty jokes, and note-passing became "class" for me!

So I got 19 years of blue-collar work out of it. But reading Merck Manuals from age 12, really helped in the limited diagnosis that paramedics are allowed.

 

[Vox]

YEOW, Vox....Physician, Nurse anesthetist, Practitioner, PA?

I learned a lot of triads, acronyms, formulas, calculations, and the Rule of Nines....but I never learned that formula. Are you holding out on us?

I thought that was what you were..."getting at"; how well the fetus is being perfused during CPR. But "abnormal CPR":

I've seen actions similar to this, in peoples' homes:

Dumb & Dumber: I know CPR. - YouTube

Now back to the OP; I just don't think that I can have an objective opinion, until I know all of the facts

Physician.

Yes. I wanted to be a physician at 8; but there were 2 problems:

1. I stopped paying attention in class, because I'd learned said subject 2-3 days before. The teacher tried to get the parents to move me up a grade or two. Nope!
2. So music composition, dirty jokes, and note-passing became "class" for me!

So I got 19 years of blue-collar work out of it. But reading Merck Manuals from age 12, really helped in the limited diagnosis that paramedics are allowed.

Oh, you are quite knowledgeable at what you do. And without you, most of the ICUs won't have the patients
Thank you.

I have been physician in a different country and then came to the US and had to go through all 9 miles, except medical school. I don't know if I would do it if I had to be trained from the start in the US - considering it is 2 college educations, a residency and a half million debt.
I just had to take exams and get through residency. Just

 

[Jughead]

I agree no one wants to be left with a huge debt. However, let's hypothetically say that I had cancer and the only way for me to survive was to undergo chemotherapy. Unfortunately though, my insurance company did not cover this specific chemo. Should I forget the chemo and not incur a huge debt?

If given the choice, I believe most of us would gladly undergo whatever medical procedures would be needed to save human life regardless the cost. I personally would rather be alive with a debt, than deceased and debt free.

If the chemo didn't work, and you died, the bills would be passed on to your family - your kids - to pay. Would you be happy to leave your family millions of dollars in debt?

Debt isn't inheritable

Correct. Children, or any other heir for that matter cannot inherit debt except if that person has cosigned for the debt.

 

[Noomi]

I agree no one wants to be left with a huge debt. However, let's hypothetically say that I had cancer and the only way for me to survive was to undergo chemotherapy. Unfortunately though, my insurance company did not cover this specific chemo. Should I forget the chemo and not incur a huge debt?

If given the choice, I believe most of us would gladly undergo whatever medical procedures would be needed to save human life regardless the cost. I personally would rather be alive with a debt, than deceased and debt free.

If the chemo didn't work, and you died, the bills would be passed on to your family - your kids - to pay. Would you be happy to leave your family millions of dollars in debt?

Debt isn't inheritable

Really? So if a father ran up a million dollars in medical bills and then died, that bill wouldn't have to be paid?

 

[Vox]

If the chemo didn't work, and you died, the bills would be passed on to your family - your kids - to pay. Would you be happy to leave your family millions of dollars in debt?

Debt isn't inheritable

Really? So if a father ran up a million dollars in medical bills and then died, that bill wouldn't have to be paid?

nope.
unless he left inheritance to the kids, which is highly unlikely - people either use the costs or move the assets way before they die in such a scenario.

 

[mskafka]

Physician.

Yes. I wanted to be a physician at 8; but there were 2 problems:

1. I stopped paying attention in class, because I'd learned said subject 2-3 days before. The teacher tried to get the parents to move me up a grade or two. Nope!
2. So music composition, dirty jokes, and note-passing became "class" for me!

So I got 19 years of blue-collar work out of it. But reading Merck Manuals from age 12, really helped in the limited diagnosis that paramedics are allowed.

without you, most of the ICUs won't have the patients

Well, thank you. Maybe that's a good thing?

In 16 years of EMS, I can think of only about 15 people who would have died without my interventions-needle decompression, severe anaphylaxis-15 miles out of town, timely intubations, etc... We usually buy the patient time, until he/she can reach definitive care. And we practice restraint, when someone calls 911 after midnight (during 24-hour shifts), and reports that he has not had a bowel movement in over a week.

 

[novasteve]

If the chemo didn't work, and you died, the bills would be passed on to your family - your kids - to pay. Would you be happy to leave your family millions of dollars in debt?

Debt isn't inheritable

Really? So if a father ran up a million dollars in medical bills and then died, that bill wouldn't have to be paid?

Out of his estate. If there isn't enough money thru can't go after anyone else. That means you might not get an inheritance but you are not obligated for your father's debts

 

[KGB]

she IS dead.

brain death is a legal declaration of death in the US.

her brain won't recover. She will not live much longer anyway as brain function is needed for regulation of other organs and as time passes everything will simply "shut down" and eventually the heart will also stop.

I would probably let the family adjust for couple of more days. the costs of keeping her on life support are big, but they won't ruin the hospital and may help the family to have a closure not a never-ending feeling of guilt that they did not prevent the hospital from "killing" their child.

You clearly have never had to make a decision like this...hopefully you never will...hospitals should never have this kind of power over the wishes of the family...

I was the one pulling the plug in many, many, many cases. brain dead IS dead.
BTW in the situation when the family has no say on this it is easier for them.
Wishes of the family can not go beyond doable things. Reviving dead brain is impossible, unfortunately.

However, as I stated above, I would keep the girl on the life support ( which is basically a ventilator) a bit longer, so either the family will adjust to this horrible situation or the nature will take it's course - if there is no brain function whatsoever the regulation of the organ functioning is absent and therefore the body won't survive much longer ( unless heroic measures are undertaken) so just leaving her on a vent won't prolong her life too much.. The hospital does not have the legal and moral requirement fro the heroic measures.

wow, you really are an insensitive one aren't you. What is brain dead is this family's daughter. They are trying to cope with that fact & having a decision taken out of their hands that should rightly be in it is obnoxious to the extreme. My family had to make a similar decision on my father this past year following his stroke. It is a process & a hospital should never have this kind of authority. This is a family matter a family decision....alone.

 

[Vox]

You clearly have never had to make a decision like this...hopefully you never will...hospitals should never have this kind of power over the wishes of the family...

I was the one pulling the plug in many, many, many cases. brain dead IS dead.
BTW in the situation when the family has no say on this it is easier for them.
Wishes of the family can not go beyond doable things. Reviving dead brain is impossible, unfortunately.

However, as I stated above, I would keep the girl on the life support ( which is basically a ventilator) a bit longer, so either the family will adjust to this horrible situation or the nature will take it's course - if there is no brain function whatsoever the regulation of the organ functioning is absent and therefore the body won't survive much longer ( unless heroic measures are undertaken) so just leaving her on a vent won't prolong her life too much.. The hospital does not have the legal and moral requirement fro the heroic measures.

wow, you really are an insensitive one aren't you. What is brain dead is this family's daughter. They are trying to cope with that fact & having a decision taken out of their hands that should rightly be in it is obnoxious to the extreme. My family had to make a similar decision on my father this past year following his stroke. It is a process & a hospital should never have this kind of authority. This is a family matter a family decision....alone.

you are an idiot. brain dead is DEAD legally and medically. period.

 

[KGB]

I was the one pulling the plug in many, many, many cases. brain dead IS dead.
BTW in the situation when the family has no say on this it is easier for them.
Wishes of the family can not go beyond doable things. Reviving dead brain is impossible, unfortunately.

However, as I stated above, I would keep the girl on the life support ( which is basically a ventilator) a bit longer, so either the family will adjust to this horrible situation or the nature will take it's course - if there is no brain function whatsoever the regulation of the organ functioning is absent and therefore the body won't survive much longer ( unless heroic measures are undertaken) so just leaving her on a vent won't prolong her life too much.. The hospital does not have the legal and moral requirement fro the heroic measures.

wow, you really are an insensitive one aren't you. What is brain dead is this family's daughter. They are trying to cope with that fact & having a decision taken out of their hands that should rightly be in it is obnoxious to the extreme. My family had to make a similar decision on my father this past year following his stroke. It is a process & a hospital should never have this kind of authority. This is a family matter a family decision....alone.

you are an idiot. brain dead is DEAD legally and medically. period.

again, still a decision for the family to make, not the hospital. Get a clue....

 

[novasteve]

Brain dead is dead but women can have a penis and men can get pregnant

 

[Vox]

wow, you really are an insensitive one aren't you. What is brain dead is this family's daughter. They are trying to cope with that fact & having a decision taken out of their hands that should rightly be in it is obnoxious to the extreme. My family had to make a similar decision on my father this past year following his stroke. It is a process & a hospital should never have this kind of authority. This is a family matter a family decision....alone.

you are an idiot. brain dead is DEAD legally and medically. period.

again, still a decision for the family to make, not the hospital. Get a clue....

nope, it is not. if the person is declared brain dead family has no say.

get a clue, finally. and read what I posted about this particular situation - in the post you are quoting.

 

[Katzndogz]

The family wants to move her to a permanent care facility and the hospital pay. When they sue for that they will lose because the child is deceased. She is not in a coma nor in a vegetative state. They hired their own doctor to make an independent diagnosis wnd he said the girl is dead. It is time to give it up and bury their baby.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Like how much they wanted Teri schiavo to be killed and mutilated in an autopsy?


Monday rally planned for brain-dead Oakland girl - SFGate

rightwing hides behind another turnip?


go figure

 

[Mojo2]

Isn't this, essentially, an example of what will soon become a commonplace practice?

Wouldn't the government, behind overwhelming support of the Obama administration, begin administering the program according to the government's whim?

Wouldn't Obamacare middle level bureaucraps be the ones who would make the decision to take beautiful little girls like Jahi, off life support due to the cost of keeping her viable in hopes of some medical progress?

Just one more opportunity for some of you Obamacare supporters to see what he has brought to US.