WMD's: Do They Matter?

[wonderwench]

Often, the will of the people needs an active assist.

The French were crucial allies in the War for Independence. Without the help of the U.S., the struggle for liberty within Iraq would have been much more prolonged and bloody. Those hundreds of thousands of corpses in mass graves are proof of the price of defying Saddam.

 

[SinisterMotives]

Originally posted by jones
Agreed, we would be better off if we would have taken saddam out, would have less blood spilled.
Only problem i have is that emposing a democracy on a nation through force has never, to my knowledge, been successful.
On the other hand, by setting an example we have had MANY nations develop into democracys through the will of the people.

Jones has a point here. Iraq has never known democracy, so it's going to be very difficult to start one there. Ramming our own culture down their throats may actually hurt the effort. It really depends on whether we can successfully educate the Iraqi people about the advantages of democracy and convince them that it's worth the sacrifices necessary to achieve it. It's not going to happen overnight.

 

[wonderwench]

The Iraqis are still people - and I do believe that natural values of healthy humans include the wish to be free and self-determining.

I do not believe we are ramming our culture down their throats, either.

 

[SinisterMotives]

Originally posted by wonderwench
I do not believe we are ramming our culture down their throats, either.

Maybe not. Let's just see how long it takes McDonald's and GulfDisney to set up shop there.

 

[wonderwench]

The worst is Starbucks.

Friends don't let friends drink Starbucks.

 

[SinisterMotives]

Originally posted by wonderwench
The worst is Starbucks.

Friends don't let friends drink Starbucks.

I actually saw a Starbucks in far northwest OKC when I was out and about yesterday. The yuppies here are such cattle.

 

[jones]

I think Walmart is the worst of them.

Not just driving out small retailers, but ALL of them with the wide range of services available at those "super centers", they're in every town around here. They're also anti union and is practically slave labor.

 

[SinisterMotives]

Originally posted by jones
I think Walmart is the worst of them.

Not just driving out small retailers, but ALL of them with the wide range of services available at those "super centers", they're in every town around here. They're also anti union and is practically slave labor.

Wal-Mart has a lot of stores here, and I agree that they're driving smaller retailers out of business. On the other hand, the grocery store union here doesn't really seem to do much for grocery store workers. More often than not, the union contract just gives store managers some guidelines about how abusive they can be, and managers tend to do whatever they can get away with. I think they'd treat their people better if they didn't take their resentment of being forced to unionize out on their employees.

 

[wonderwench]

If consumers didn't like WalMart, it would not be successful.

And I really hate the moral relativism of equating low wage jobs with slavery. Slavery is the ownership of a human as a piece of property. A low wage earner is perfectly free to quit and seek employment elsewhere. A slave is not.

 

[jones]

Yes that it the very choice they need to make. Leave, or take the low wage.
Problem is, somebodys going to take that low wage, walmart knows this. But the people who do still cant support a family with it.

The real theory behind unions, if anyone doesnt understand.
Union were started to "level the playing field" . corporations can do whatever they want to take advantage of the lone worker, but when they unionize, its making it even, they both have power to bargain.

Its the same with our world trade, if workers in india are willing to take a lower wage job and do same service for the corp. The corporation, if allowed, will outsource.
So there needs to be an asserted effort to "level the playing field" for american workers. one way to do that with this example would to have a cost emposed when outsourcing. So we can compete evenly with them. Its worked before and if we got strict like after the great depression, I think it would do great good these days.

 

[eric]

The real theory behind unions, if anyone doesnt understand.

No my little friend you are way, way, out of your league. Stick to conspiracy theories !

Labor Unions were not created to level the playing field against the big bad corporation. Now do your homework properly and I will grade you on your paper !

 

[eric]

Furthermore the labor union is what is going to destroy any hope this country has of competing in the global marketplace. Don't believe me, just take a look at the airlines. My friend is the CEO of Jetblue, and I know many of the employees, who happen to be very happy with their jobs. Jetblue is operating in the black, while most others balance sheets are in the red !

Think they take advantage of their employees think again, talk to people who work there. I personally knew a mechanic who passed away, he was 32 years old and left behind a wife of 27, jetblue paid for all the funeral expenses to the utter surprise of his wife. By the way she now works for them too !!

 

[jones]

Whatever dude, just supplying my very basic view of unions. If you want to add something add it, go look it up in the dictionary.

I wonder what you think of unions. Are they the devil?

You think corporations know whats good for ya? Sorry buddy, most corporations, even by law, are only in it for one thing. MONEY, nothing else.

 

[jones]

Heh, nice example. Too bad its not on a broad scale.
Actually I work for a great BIG corporation, I know they can be good. But many arent.

Unions are good though.

Like our federal employees have the benifit of the largest union.
Why shouldnt we deserve the same? I just dont see your argument, just explain it simple for my small walnut brain, why organized labor is the end of america.

 

[eric]

Jones really what the hell do you know about anything concerning corporations, what experience do you have other than sweeping floors. Tell me what mid to high level management experience you have which qualifies you.

Do you have any idea how stupid that last statement was, of course corporations are in it for the money, what the hell else is business about. This is not a communist nation, we are capitalists the last time I checked. Do you even understand that the board of a corporation has a fiduciary relationship with its stock holder to produce the highest profits possible. This is a legal standard. So please stop sounding like a total idiot and wasting our time.

As far as unions are concerned I don't need to look it up in a dictionary I have higher education under my belt. What you need to do it stop making comments about things you don't understand.

 

[jones]

Did you even learn anything in all that schoo?

I would like YOU to tell me WHY im wrong. not just ranting. Explain why they are bad. Your opinion, not some link.

 

[eric]

Jones you have to pay for your education I am not going to provide it for free. When you have learned what you need to know then we can debate, I am not going to explain everything to you. You don't even understand where the union came from, how are you possibly going to debate about supply-side economics ?

 

[jones]

If you cant explain your point. Then don't comment at all. Telling me Im wrong won't do anything. Thank you.

 

[eric]

Jones I will comment on whatever I feel like. You make stupid statements and then expect us to educate you, give me a break. Lets take a great example :

Sorry buddy, most corporations, even by law, are only in it for one thing. MONEY, nothing else

How stupid does this statement sound. Is this not what capitalism is about, making money ?

Now am I expected to explain capitalism to you? Get real, learn, and then make educated statements.

 

[bamthin]

Originally posted by wonderwench
I agree, SM, that oil played a partial role in the decision.

Our economy is fueled by oil - without it, the recent recent recession would look like a picnic. National security is closely tied to economic stability. We are at risk by being dependent upon descipable, totalitarian regimes for our primary fuel. The sooner we eliminate our dependence upon Middle East oil, the better.

Saddam was a destablizing force in the energy equation. His removal lowers the risk.

I think we should be investing more in alternate energy sources and dumping more money into hydrogen power car research. I would much rather have a gasoline free, pollution free automobile than see a space station on the moon. Think about how much pure research we could have done for alternate energy research with the $180 billion or so we spent getting rid of Saddam. Not even having to mention the saved lives.

Once the US removes it's dependence on crude oil, the Middle East becomes just another desert and the shieks will need to start raising camels again. With no money to finance terror, the WOT ends and the US wins. We developed a freakin' nuclear bomb and put a man on the moon, I think we can handle the gasoline free car.



-Bam