WT7: Silverstein vs the Official Gov't Report

[Skylar]

Has anyone bothered to examine the fundamental physics involved in these explanations and ask if said explanations ring true?

The fundamental physics of your SILENT EXPLOSIVES? Yeah, I've considered it. And that dog won't hunt. Yet your conspiracy requires it. And how do you deal with this critical, theory killing hole in your conspiracy?

You ignore any evidence that contradicts you and then ignore the problem entirely. You don't think, you don't ask questions. You just ape whatever truther conspiracy you're told to think. Even when it laughably, obviously and undeniably fails.

No thanks.

In the "documentaries" by the History channel, the Discovery channel, Popular Mechanics ( etc.... ) there are huge mistakes or possibly intentional fraud published as if it was the most perfect thing possible. REALLY people?

Says you. And you ignore anything that doesn't ape your conspiracy. Remember the videos of flight 175 crashing into the south tower? All 43 of them. You ignored them all. Every single video, every live feed, every camcorder, everything...insisting they were all 'fraud'. You ignored every single eye witness account, dismissing them all as government plants.

Just because you ignore all evidence that contradicts you doesn't mean that the evidence ceases to exist. Nor does it mean that *we* can't look at it. And that's why the Truther conspiracy fails. Its too complicated, with too little evidence and too much contradicting it. And your response to these issues is distinctly underwhelming:

To ignore anything that doesn't match what you already believe. No thank you. I refuse to ignore what you must to cling to your silly, ludicrously complicated conspiracy.

What magic brought about not only structural failure, but in a manner that resulted in the total destruction of both towers?

Tell us, with 30 stories of debris accelerated by gravity and plummeting into the floor below, what was supposed to happen? What structure within the WTC 1 or 2 was capable of stopping the collapse once it had begun?

I've asked you both questions before, and you avoid them like they were on fire and hit by airliners.

Keep running.

 

[Skylar]

Gross incredulity about the fact that after 13 years, people are still seeking truth, because the official explanation is LAME! t

Dude, you don't want the truth. You don't ignore 43 different videos of the south tower impact, insisting they are all faked because you 'want the truth'. You don't ignore every eye witness of the impacts because you 'want the truth'. You don't ignore the FDNY on the collapse of WTC 7 due to fire and structural damage because 'want the truth'. You don't ignore WTC designer Leslie Robertson because you 'want the truth'. You don't ignore every picture of plane debris because you 'want the truth'. You don't ignore every report, every radar record, every black box, every genetic test, every piece of physical evidence because you 'want the truth'.

You do it because you emotionally invested in your silly truther conspiracy...and you want your conspiracy more than you want the truth. A conspiracy that is just a stupidly awful explanation of events.

Where somehow tens of thousands of invisible, fire proof explosives and all the apparatus of explosives were secretly planted in the WTC 1, 2 and 7, bombs that no bomb squad could detect nor bomb sniffing dog root out, bombs that left no residue in dust samples taken from the site and were so cleverly placed that even the building manager who was there was the WTC was constructed couldn't detect them when looking directly at them from 2 feet away. Bombs that somehow destroyed a 110 story office building, one floor at a time all the way to the ground....

Twice. Yet didn't cut a single girder, leave any trace, any residue, nor a single inch of blasting wire, det cord or any apparatus of explosives of any kind.

With every of thousands of witnesses to the plane impacts being a government plant, every video being faked, every live feed being faked, every camcorder being faked, all the physical debris being faked, every report faked, every account faked, every radar record faked, every black box faked.

And involved tens of thousands of co-conspirators, including every major news network, the airforce, NORAD, the Department of Defense, the NIST, the FAA, the FBI, the FDNY (who lost 343 of their own, but still participated in the conspiracy), the NY Port Authority, all the ninja janitors who installed the elaborate system of bombs, everyone who happened to be stuck in a traffic jam on 1-395 as it wound past the Pentagon, every person looking at the WTC when the second plane hit, the ASCE, the WTC building designers, the coroners who conducted the autopsies, all the technicians who did the genetic testing on the bodies, all the folks who disposed of the bodies of the passengers on the missing flights and those who got rid of the planes, every investigator on scene and every first responder to arrived at any site a plane crashed.

And finally, despite tens of thousands of knowing participants in the mass murder of thousands, every single one of them, without exception, has remained perfectly silent maintaining absolute and perfect secrecy for 13 years. Despite the Manhattan Project, developed and housed in a secure facility and vital to our national security only remaining secret for about 7 years. While this occurred in the downtown of one of the largest cities on earth.

All as part of the most stupidly complicated, insanely elaborate, mind blowingly complex plot ever conceived by man in the history of our planet......and executed perfectly and in public.

4 times.

That's your theory. This is what you consider credible and probable.

Um, no. That's fucking stupid.

 

[aris2chat]

black boxes were found. Transcript from one was used in court. Some of the other boxes were heard by family, others were too damaged.

wreckage from pentagon was taken to a hanger at Dulles that is owned by the NTSB for forensic examination then the pieces were boxed up and disposed of as toxic waste
wreckage from WTC was taken to staten island

pieces were still being found as late as last year over a wide area of Manhattan.

 

[n0spam4me]

black boxes were found. Transcript from one was used in court. Some of the other boxes were heard by family, others were too damaged.

wreckage from pentagon was taken to a hanger at Dulles that is owned by the NTSB for forensic examination then the pieces were boxed up and disposed of as toxic waste
wreckage from WTC was taken to staten island

pieces were still being found as late as last year over a wide area of Manhattan.

The Flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders for "FLT11" & "FLT175" were never found and in rubble that was sorted for human remains & artifacts, not even a piece of a flight recorder could be found so as to actually confirm the presents of "FLT11" or "FLT175"

"wreckage from pentagon was taken to a hanger" Can this be documented? Where is the source for this info?

and in the case of any one of the 4 airliners or rather alleged airliners, what documents the amount of wreckage having been recovered? either by weight or volume or?

 

[CAPTCHATHIS]

Has anyone bothered to examine the fundamental physics involved in these explanations and ask if said explanations ring true?

The fundamental physics of your SILENT EXPLOSIVES? Yeah, I've considered it. And that dog won't hunt. Yet your conspiracy requires it. And how do you deal with this critical, theory killing hole in your conspiracy?

You ignore any evidence that contradicts you and then ignore the problem entirely. You don't think, you don't ask questions. You just ape whatever truther conspiracy you're told to think. Even when it laughably, obviously and undeniably fails.

No thanks.

In the "documentaries" by the History channel, the Discovery channel, Popular Mechanics ( etc.... ) there are huge mistakes or possibly intentional fraud published as if it was the most perfect thing possible. REALLY people?

Says you. And you ignore anything that doesn't ape your conspiracy. Remember the videos of flight 175 crashing into the south tower? All 43 of them. You ignored them all. Every single video, every live feed, every camcorder, everything...insisting they were all 'fraud'. You ignored every single eye witness account, dismissing them all as government plants.

Just because you ignore all evidence that contradicts you doesn't mean that the evidence ceases to exist. Nor does it mean that *we* can't look at it. And that's why the Truther conspiracy fails. Its too complicated, with too little evidence and too much contradicting it. And your response to these issues is distinctly underwhelming:

To ignore anything that doesn't match what you already believe. No thank you. I refuse to ignore what you must to cling to your silly, ludicrously complicated conspiracy.

What magic brought about not only structural failure, but in a manner that resulted in the total destruction of both towers?

Tell us, with 30 stories of debris accelerated by gravity and plummeting into the floor below, what was supposed to happen? What structure within the WTC 1 or 2 was capable of stopping the collapse once it had begun?

I've asked you both questions before, and you avoid them like they were on fire and hit by airliners.

Keep running.

Sklyar, Your posts are limited to endlessly projecting your own, ignorance, misrepresentations, fallacious logic and intellectual dishonesty onto those that dispute the OCT. In other words, you aim to overwhelm with a barrage of BS. Anyone with a clear eye can see through you like a sheet of glass, you're obviously 'all-in' - willing to say anything, credibility be damned, in order to protect the official lie. Give it up.

 

[Skylar]

black boxes were found. Transcript from one was used in court. Some of the other boxes were heard by family, others were too damaged.

wreckage from pentagon was taken to a hanger at Dulles that is owned by the NTSB for forensic examination then the pieces were boxed up and disposed of as toxic waste
wreckage from WTC was taken to staten island

pieces were still being found as late as last year over a wide area of Manhattan.

Ah, but remember: Spammy's conspiracy requires that they were all faked. Every black box, radar record, piece of debris, genetic test matching a body at the impact site to a hijacked plane passenger, video, eye witness, everything.

This is how the conspiracy works: the only 'legitimate' evidence is that which confirms the conspiracy. If it doesn't, its fake. Or as the truther mantra goes: anything that doesn't ape the conspiracy becomes part of it.. That's also known as 'confirmation bias'. Its a classic fallacy of logic. And Spammy's theory couldn't exist without it.

 

[n0spam4me]

black boxes were found. Transcript from one was used in court. Some of the other boxes were heard by family, others were too damaged.

wreckage from pentagon was taken to a hanger at Dulles that is owned by the NTSB for forensic examination then the pieces were boxed up and disposed of as toxic waste
wreckage from WTC was taken to staten island

pieces were still being found as late as last year over a wide area of Manhattan.

Ah, but remember: Spammy's conspiracy requires that they were all faked. Every black box, radar record, piece of debris, genetic test matching a body at the impact site to a hijacked plane passenger, video, eye witness, everything.

This is how the conspiracy works: the only 'legitimate' evidence is that which confirms the conspiracy. If it doesn't, its fake. Or as the truther mantra goes: anything that doesn't ape the conspiracy becomes part of it.. That's also known as 'confirmation bias'. Its a classic fallacy of logic. And Spammy's theory couldn't exist without it.

are you blind to the facts of the alleged "FLT175" crash video that was paraded in front of the world as alleged proof that an airliner hit the tower(s)? did you not see the manner & speed of destruction of the towers & 7? not to mention the order of the events, that is the fact that if there was a "pile driver" mass involved in the destruction of the towers, what magic kept said mass aligned over the center of the tower(s) so as to facilitate the total destruction of the building(s).
whats up with that?

 

[Skylar]

black boxes were found. Transcript from one was used in court. Some of the other boxes were heard by family, others were too damaged.

wreckage from pentagon was taken to a hanger at Dulles that is owned by the NTSB for forensic examination then the pieces were boxed up and disposed of as toxic waste
wreckage from WTC was taken to staten island

pieces were still being found as late as last year over a wide area of Manhattan.

The Flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders for "FLT11" & "FLT175" were never found and in rubble that was sorted for human remains & artifacts, not even a piece of a flight recorder could be found so as to actually confirm the presents of "FLT11" or "FLT175"

Yet you've ignored every flight recorder.....including those that were found. Including those from flight 77 and flight 93. And you ignore them for no other reason than they contradict your conspiracy. You're like the avatar of Confirmation Bias. As anything that doesn't confirm what you already believe, you ignore as fake.

If only reality worked that way.

"wreckage from pentagon was taken to a hanger" Can this be documented? Where is the source for this info?

Can you document any of your claims? That all 43 videos of the South Tower impact were faked? That the audio on the WTC 7 video was faked? That all the eye witness accounts of Flight 77 hitting the pentagon were faked? That there was a single bomb anywhere in the WTC plaza? That there was a single thermite reaction?

Of course not. You can't back up anything you've said. But as is so common with your ilk, Documentation and verification is only for *other* people. Never yourself. You can't even meet your own standards. Let alone the standards of reason, logic, or evidence. Your conspiracy just doesn't work.

and in the case of any one of the 4 airliners or rather alleged airliners, what documents the amount of wreckage having been recovered? either by weight or volume or?

Why do you ignore the evidence you do have? For example, pictures oh-plenty of commercial airliner debris at the pentagon.......the eye witness accounts of a plane hitting the pentagon.....the radar records of flight 77 that end abruptly at the Pentagon impact site......the black boxes of flight 77 that were pulled from Pentagon.....the ASCE report affirming the damage was consistent with an impact from a commercial airliner.......the genetic matching of bodies from the pentagon matching passengers and crew from flight 77? The plane debris from flight 77 matching not only the same plane as Flight 77....but the exact variant used by American Airlines.

This is amazing relevant evidence that no rational person would ever ignore.

But you do.

You ignore it all, the massive, compelling, overlapping evidence that demonstrates the absurdity of your silly little conspiracy. And then laughably pretend that if you ignore the evidence, we must ignore it as well.

So, um....how's that working out for you?

 

[n0spam4me]

black boxes were found. Transcript from one was used in court. Some of the other boxes were heard by family, others were too damaged.

wreckage from pentagon was taken to a hanger at Dulles that is owned by the NTSB for forensic examination then the pieces were boxed up and disposed of as toxic waste
wreckage from WTC was taken to staten island

pieces were still being found as late as last year over a wide area of Manhattan.

The Flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders for "FLT11" & "FLT175" were never found and in rubble that was sorted for human remains & artifacts, not even a piece of a flight recorder could be found so as to actually confirm the presents of "FLT11" or "FLT175"

Yet you've ignored every flight recorder.....including those that were found. Including those from flight 77 and flight 93. And you ignore them for no other reason than they contradict your conspiracy. You're like the avatar of Confirmation Bias. As anything that doesn't confirm what you already believe, you ignore as fake.

If only reality worked that way.

"wreckage from pentagon was taken to a hanger" Can this be documented? Where is the source for this info?

Can you document any of your claims? That all 43 videos of the South Tower impact were faked? That the audio on the WTC 7 video was faked? That all the eye witness accounts of Flight 77 hitting the pentagon were faked? That there was a single bomb anywhere in the WTC plaza? That there was a single thermite reaction?

Of course not. You can't back up anything you've said. But as is so common with your ilk, Documentation and verification is only for *other* people. Never yourself. You can't even meet your own standards. Let alone the standards of reason, logic, or evidence. Your conspiracy just doesn't work.

and in the case of any one of the 4 airliners or rather alleged airliners, what documents the amount of wreckage having been recovered? either by weight or volume or?

Why do you ignore the evidence you do have? For example, pictures oh-plenty of commercial airliner debris at the pentagon.......the eye witness accounts of a plane hitting the pentagon.....the radar records of flight 77 that end abruptly at the Pentagon impact site......the black boxes of flight 77 that were pulled from Pentagon.....the ASCE report affirming the damage was consistent with an impact from a commercial airliner.......the genetic matching of bodies from the pentagon matching passengers and crew from flight 77? The plane debris from flight 77 matching not only the same plane as Flight 77....but the exact variant used by American Airlines.

This is amazing relevant evidence that no rational person would ever ignore.

But you do.

You ignore it all, the massive, compelling, overlapping evidence that demonstrates the absurdity of your silly little conspiracy. And then laughably pretend that if you ignore the evidence, we must ignore it as well.

So, um....how's that working out for you?

There are some bits that totally trump other bits, the fact that the official story included alleged CELL-PHONE calls from airliners that were moving far too fast and flying far too high to have cell-phone connections function at all and yet these people insisted that the passengers of the hijacked airliners made these cell-phone calls.... what a crock.
rather much discredits the official story right away. The additional fact here is that if the official story promotes a video of an alleged commercial airliner "FLT175" penetrating a wall just like "B movie special effects" .... and people are not outraged about this? The other bit is that its obvious, ( that is to anyone who didn't sleep through middle school science ) that the towers & 7 were destroyed by planned & engineered events NOT the product of aircraft crashes + fire. The manner of destruction of the towers & 7 could not have happened unless the energy to accomplish the destruction had focus, without focus, you may as well have thrown mass quantities of fire-crackers around the inside of the buildings and set them off at random, to no result at all. Given an examination of the events from a probability POV, it is seen to be most improbable that airliners ( that BTW are not designed to function as missiles and can not be expected to perform as missiles ) could penetrate the WTC walls as was alleged for the North tower & South tower and completely disappear inside. This can only be interpreted as pursuant to a goal of giving the appearance that there were commercial airliners used as weapons but not actually involving any real airliners.

 

[Skylar]

There are some bits that totally trump other bits, the fact that the official story included alleged CELL-PHONE calls from airliners that were moving far too fast and flying far too high to have cell-phone connections function at all and yet these people insisted that the passengers of the hijacked airliners made these cell-phone calls.... what a crock.

Says you. Remember, you don't actually know what you're talking about. You claim that all 43 videos of the south tower impact were faked. But you can't actually back that claim up. You claim that the fires in WTC 7 were 'theatrical'. But you have absolutely nothing to back the claim. You claim that all the debris at the pentagon was planted. But you can back that accusation with nothing more than your ability to type it. You claim that all the witnesses to each of the plane impacts were plants. Yet you have zero evidence to back that up.

You may believe that you simply ignoring overwhelming evidence, thousands of witnesses, dozens of videos, eye witness experts by the score and every picture that contradicts you magically makes them all disappear.

But it really doesn't. We can still see every piece of evidence, read every witness account contradicting your silly conspiracy, see every picture, watch every video, see every giant, theory killing hole in your claims. Your desperate, willful ignorance doesn't actual resolve the failure of any portion of your conspiracy. It only demonstrates the failure of your process.

So your conspiracy is tripley irrational. As first, its based on nothing but conjecture and innuendo. Second, its insanely elaborate and pointlessly complex.....being quite simply the most complicated plot ever conceived by man in the history of our planet. Occam's Razor just shreds the idea to ribbons as laughably implausible. And third, it requires you to ignore *massive* contradictory evidence that is immediately relevant and extremely compelling.

And no rational person would do any of these things. You do them all. No thank you.

 

[n0spam4me]

There are some bits that totally trump other bits, the fact that the official story included alleged CELL-PHONE calls from airliners that were moving far too fast and flying far too high to have cell-phone connections function at all and yet these people insisted that the passengers of the hijacked airliners made these cell-phone calls.... what a crock.

Says you. Remember, you don't actually know what you're talking about. You claim that all 43 videos of the south tower impact were faked. But you can't actually back that claim up. You claim that the fires in WTC 7 were 'theatrical'. But you have absolutely nothing to back the claim. You claim that all the debris at the pentagon was planted. But you can back that accusation with nothing more than your ability to type it. You claim that all the witnesses to each of the plane impacts were plants. Yet you have zero evidence to back that up.

You may believe that you simply ignoring overwhelming evidence, thousands of witnesses, dozens of videos, eye witness experts by the score and every picture that contradicts you magically makes them all disappear.

But it really doesn't. We can still see every piece of evidence, read every witness account contradicting your silly conspiracy, see every picture, watch every video, see every giant, theory killing hole in your claims. Your desperate, willful ignorance doesn't actual resolve the failure of any portion of your conspiracy. It only demonstrates the failure of your process.

So your conspiracy is tripley irrational. As first, its based on nothing but conjecture and innuendo. Second, its insanely elaborate and pointlessly complex.....being quite simply the most complicated plot ever conceived by man in the history of our planet. Occam's Razor just shreds the idea to ribbons as laughably implausible. And third, it requires you to ignore *massive* contradictory evidence that is immediately relevant and extremely compelling.

And no rational person would do any of these things. You do them all. No thank you.

aside from the appeals to authority, what do YOU have as support for the 19 suicidal hijackers story?

 

[CAPTCHATHIS]

black boxes were found. Transcript from one was used in court. Some of the other boxes were heard by family, others were too damaged.

wreckage from pentagon was taken to a hanger at Dulles that is owned by the NTSB for forensic examination then the pieces were boxed up and disposed of as toxic waste
wreckage from WTC was taken to staten island

pieces were still being found as late as last year over a wide area of Manhattan.

Ah, but remember: Spammy's conspiracy requires that they were all faked. Every black box, radar record, piece of debris, genetic test matching a body at the impact site to a hijacked plane passenger, video, eye witness, everything.

This is how the conspiracy works: the only 'legitimate' evidence is that which confirms the conspiracy. If it doesn't, its fake. Or as the truther mantra goes: anything that doesn't ape the conspiracy becomes part of it.. That's also known as 'confirmation bias'. Its a classic fallacy of logic. And Spammy's theory couldn't exist without it.

"that they were all faked. Every black box"

Little faking required when it's claimed the black boxes from Flights 11 and 175 are "not found" and the voice recorder from Flight 77 is "unreadable." Plus there is no positive evidence linking the NTSB provided data file, allegedly from the AA77 data recorder to the specific aircraft.

"No Evidence Linking FDR Data to American 77"
Flight Data Expert Confirmation No Evidence Linking FDR Data to American 77

The FBI initially refused to release the voice recording from Flight 93, eventually let 'family' members listen to it in a closed session and finally in 2006 as a result of the Moussaoui trial released a transcript which begins four minutes after the terrorists took control of the plane.

Pilots for 9/11 Truth received the Flight 93 data from the NTSB and did a close analysis of the data they contained. After expert review and cross check, Pilots for 9/11 Truth concluded that the information in these NTSB documents does not support, and in some instances factually contradicts, the official government position that United Airlines Flight 93 created the impact crater as reported, in Somerset County, PA on the morning of September 11, 2001

Pilots For Truth Press Release - Flight Of United 93

Per a FOIA request to the NTSB asking the process by which the wreckage from the crash sites was positively identified as belonging to the respective planes: "Unfortunately, the NTSB doesn't have any records regarding the above requested information."

FOIA Document:
Ntsb No Records Pertaining To Process Of Positive Identification Of 9 11 Aircraft Wreckage - Pilots For 9 11 Truth Forum

 

[Skylar]

Per a FOIA request to the NTSB asking the process by which the wreckage from the crash sites was positively identified as belonging to the respective planes: "Unfortunately, the NTSB doesn't have any records regarding the above requested information."

The NTSB didn't conduct the investigation into the crashes. The FBI did. Which, of course, you know. But really hope we don't. Why then would the NTSB not having data on an investigation the NTSB didn't conduct be an indication of some conspiracy?

Flight Data Recorder Expert Dennis Cimino

And who says that Dennis Cimino is a flight data recorder expert?

 

[n0spam4me]

Per a FOIA request to the NTSB asking the process by which the wreckage from the crash sites was positively identified as belonging to the respective planes: "Unfortunately, the NTSB doesn't have any records regarding the above requested information."

The NTSB didn't conduct the investigation into the crashes. The FBI did. Which, of course, you know. But really hope we don't. Why then would the NTSB not having data on an investigation the NTSB didn't conduct be an indication of some conspiracy?

Flight Data Recorder Expert Dennis Cimino

And who says that Dennis Cimino is a flight data recorder expert?

and who sez that you are an expert on anything at all?
the facts are in, the video that alleges to show "FLT175" penetrating the south wall of the South tower, is fake because "FLT175" would have had to violate the laws of physics in order to do what was show in TV. Therefore TV LIES!
other bits can be subject of speculation, but the facts available through the bogus videos shown to the world right after the events of 9/11/2001, totally seal the deal, its FAKE! the towers & 7 were destroyed intentionally by an engineered demolition and there were no airliners hijacked that day, no cell phone calls from the airliners ..... etc ..... we have been lied to through the most powerful propaganda machine ever invented.

 

[Skylar]

and who sez that you are an expert on anything at all?

I'm not quoting me on the collapse of WTC 7. I'm quoting the FDNY, who are experts

...also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.

Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html

An expert with 33 years of experience who was actually there. But you ignore him just the same. As your sole critiera of credibility is that a source agree with you. Thta's it. If they don't ape whatever silly conspiracy you're shucking, you ignore them.

Back in reality, you've presented no credible reason to ignore Hayden or any of the FDNY on why WTC 7 came down. You simply do.....because you'd rather cling to your failed little conspiracy than learn what actually happened.

And it gets worse;

The major concern at that time at that particular location was number Seven, building number seven, which had taken a big hit from the north tower. When it fell,

it ripped steel out from between the third and sixth floors across the facade on Vesey Street. We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing.

Assistant Chief Frank Fellini

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Fellini_Frank.txt

But you know more than Frank Fellini, who has decades of experience with building fires and watched the WTC 7 burn.....because you saw a youtube video once?

Um, no.

The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we wouldn’t lose any more people.

We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was giver., at 5:30 in the afternoon, World Trade Center collapsed completely I continued to operate at the scene….

Chief Daniel Nigro.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Nigro_Daniel.txt

Guess Chief Nigro is in on it too. After all, my little conspiracy theorist....anything that doesn't ape your conspiracy must be part of it!

Right?

Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area –

Yeah -- be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it. There was considerable discussion with Con Ed regarding the substation in that building and the feeders and the oil coolants and so on.

And their concern was of the type of fire we might have when it collapsed. They shut down the power, and when it did collapse, the things that they were concerned with would have been. That's about it

Chief Frank Cruthers;
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Cruthers.txt

But they are ALL wrong, and only you can be right? Um, no. They are experts who were there. You're clueless and weren't.

And of course, you never even tried to answer my question:

And who says that Dennis Cimino is a flight data recorder expert?

Try again.

 

[CAPTCHATHIS]

Per a FOIA request to the NTSB asking the process by which the wreckage from the crash sites was positively identified as belonging to the respective planes: "Unfortunately, the NTSB doesn't have any records regarding the above requested information."

The NTSB didn't conduct the investigation into the crashes. The FBI did. Which, of course, you know. But really hope we don't. Why then would the NTSB not having data on an investigation the NTSB didn't conduct be an indication of some conspiracy?

Flight Data Recorder Expert Dennis Cimino

And who says that Dennis Cimino is a flight data recorder expert?

and who sez that you are an expert on anything at all?
the facts are in, the video that alleges to show "FLT175" penetrating the south wall of the South tower, is fake because "FLT175" would have had to violate the laws of physics in order to do what was show in TV. Therefore TV LIES!
other bits can be subject of speculation, but the facts available through the bogus videos shown to the world right after the events of 9/11/2001, totally seal the deal, its FAKE! the towers & 7 were destroyed intentionally by an engineered demolition and there were no airliners hijacked that day, no cell phone calls from the airliners ..... etc ..... we have been lied to through the most powerful propaganda machine ever invented.

While I tend to agree that the hijackings are must likely bogus, the lack of a hijacking and planes hitting the towers are not mutually exclusive.It's been pretty well documented that 'drone' technology and even the ability to overtake control of a manned aircraft existed in 2001. Of course considerable effort has been made to create a "legend" for the 19 +1. It supports the official story, serving the greater agenda, wastes the effort of investigators and creates more lines for divisiveness among those seeking the truth as well people in general.

 

[n0spam4me]

what you have are appeals to authority and arguments from incredulity.

The fact remains that the "collapse" of the towers & 7 prove beyond any doubt that the mainstream media has been treating the public like mushrooms and indeed insulting every sentient being on this planet!

When the evidence that is allegedly proof that there was an airliner hit to the South tower and said video shows an event that would involve the violation of the laws of physics to accomplish. oh well .... total show-stopper!
what do you want?

 

[CAPTCHATHIS]

and who sez that you are an expert on anything at all?

I'm not quoting me on the collapse of WTC 7. I'm quoting the FDNY, who are experts

...also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.

Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html

An expert with 33 years of experience who was actually there. But you ignore him just the same. As your sole critiera of credibility is that a source agree with you. Thta's it. If they don't ape whatever silly conspiracy you're shucking, you ignore them.

Back in reality, you've presented no credible reason to ignore Hayden or any of the FDNY on why WTC 7 came down. You simply do.....because you'd rather cling to your failed little conspiracy than learn what actually happened.

And it gets worse;

The major concern at that time at that particular location was number Seven, building number seven, which had taken a big hit from the north tower. When it fell,

it ripped steel out from between the third and sixth floors across the facade on Vesey Street. We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing.

Assistant Chief Frank Fellini

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Fellini_Frank.txt

But you know more than Frank Fellini, who has decades of experience with building fires and watched the WTC 7 burn.....because you saw a youtube video once?

Um, no.

The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we wouldn’t lose any more people.

We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was giver., at 5:30 in the afternoon, World Trade Center collapsed completely I continued to operate at the scene….

Chief Daniel Nigro.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Nigro_Daniel.txt

Guess Chief Nigro is in on it too. After all, my little conspiracy theorist....anything that doesn't ape your conspiracy must be part of it!

Right?

Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area –

Yeah -- be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it. There was considerable discussion with Con Ed regarding the substation in that building and the feeders and the oil coolants and so on.

And their concern was of the type of fire we might have when it collapsed. They shut down the power, and when it did collapse, the things that they were concerned with would have been. That's about it

Chief Frank Cruthers;
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Cruthers.txt

But they are ALL wrong, and only you can be right? Um, no. They are experts who were there. You're clueless and weren't.

And of course, you never even tried to answer my question:

And who says that Dennis Cimino is a flight data recorder expert?

Try again.

and who sez that you are an expert on anything at all?

I'm not quoting me on the collapse of WTC 7. I'm quoting the FDNY, who are experts

...also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.

Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html

An expert with 33 years of experience who was actually there. But you ignore him just the same. As your sole critiera of credibility is that a source agree with you. Thta's it. If they don't ape whatever silly conspiracy you're shucking, you ignore them.

Back in reality, you've presented no credible reason to ignore Hayden or any of the FDNY on why WTC 7 came down. You simply do.....because you'd rather cling to your failed little conspiracy than learn what actually happened.

And it gets worse;

The major concern at that time at that particular location was number Seven, building number seven, which had taken a big hit from the north tower. When it fell,

it ripped steel out from between the third and sixth floors across the facade on Vesey Street. We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing.

Assistant Chief Frank Fellini

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Fellini_Frank.txt

But you know more than Frank Fellini, who has decades of experience with building fires and watched the WTC 7 burn.....because you saw a youtube video once?

Um, no.

The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we wouldn’t lose any more people.

We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was giver., at 5:30 in the afternoon, World Trade Center collapsed completely I continued to operate at the scene….

Chief Daniel Nigro.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Nigro_Daniel.txt

Guess Chief Nigro is in on it too. After all, my little conspiracy theorist....anything that doesn't ape your conspiracy must be part of it!

Right?

Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area –

Yeah -- be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it. There was considerable discussion with Con Ed regarding the substation in that building and the feeders and the oil coolants and so on.

And their concern was of the type of fire we might have when it collapsed. They shut down the power, and when it did collapse, the things that they were concerned with would have been. That's about it

Chief Frank Cruthers;
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Cruthers.txt

But they are ALL wrong, and only you can be right? Um, no. They are experts who were there. You're clueless and weren't.

And of course, you never even tried to answer my question:

And who says that Dennis Cimino is a flight data recorder expert?

Try again.

Frank Fellini aka The Amazing Kreskin predicted the building would collapse five or six hours before it did.
Not buying it.

 

[CAPTCHATHIS]

WTC7 housed:
IRS, Secret Service, SEC, Department of Defense, CIA, EEOC, NY Office of Emergency Mgmt and gets a footnote in 9-11 Commission Report

 

[aris2chat]

black boxes were found. Transcript from one was used in court. Some of the other boxes were heard by family, others were too damaged.

wreckage from pentagon was taken to a hanger at Dulles that is owned by the NTSB for forensic examination then the pieces were boxed up and disposed of as toxic waste
wreckage from WTC was taken to staten island

pieces were still being found as late as last year over a wide area of Manhattan.

The Flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders for "FLT11" & "FLT175" were never found and in rubble that was sorted for human remains & artifacts, not even a piece of a flight recorder could be found so as to actually confirm the presents of "FLT11" or "FLT175"

Yet you've ignored every flight recorder.....including those that were found. Including those from flight 77 and flight 93. And you ignore them for no other reason than they contradict your conspiracy. You're like the avatar of Confirmation Bias. As anything that doesn't confirm what you already believe, you ignore as fake.

If only reality worked that way.

"wreckage from pentagon was taken to a hanger" Can this be documented? Where is the source for this info?

Can you document any of your claims? That all 43 videos of the South Tower impact were faked? That the audio on the WTC 7 video was faked? That all the eye witness accounts of Flight 77 hitting the pentagon were faked? That there was a single bomb anywhere in the WTC plaza? That there was a single thermite reaction?

Of course not. You can't back up anything you've said. But as is so common with your ilk, Documentation and verification is only for *other* people. Never yourself. You can't even meet your own standards. Let alone the standards of reason, logic, or evidence. Your conspiracy just doesn't work.

and in the case of any one of the 4 airliners or rather alleged airliners, what documents the amount of wreckage having been recovered? either by weight or volume or?

Why do you ignore the evidence you do have? For example, pictures oh-plenty of commercial airliner debris at the pentagon.......the eye witness accounts of a plane hitting the pentagon.....the radar records of flight 77 that end abruptly at the Pentagon impact site......the black boxes of flight 77 that were pulled from Pentagon.....the ASCE report affirming the damage was consistent with an impact from a commercial airliner.......the genetic matching of bodies from the pentagon matching passengers and crew from flight 77? The plane debris from flight 77 matching not only the same plane as Flight 77....but the exact variant used by American Airlines.

This is amazing relevant evidence that no rational person would ever ignore.

But you do.

You ignore it all, the massive, compelling, overlapping evidence that demonstrates the absurdity of your silly little conspiracy. And then laughably pretend that if you ignore the evidence, we must ignore it as well.

So, um....how's that working out for you?

There are some bits that totally trump other bits, the fact that the official story included alleged CELL-PHONE calls from airliners that were moving far too fast and flying far too high to have cell-phone connections function at all and yet these people insisted that the passengers of the hijacked airliners made these cell-phone calls.... what a crock.
rather much discredits the official story right away. The additional fact here is that if the official story promotes a video of an alleged commercial airliner "FLT175" penetrating a wall just like "B movie special effects" .... and people are not outraged about this? The other bit is that its obvious, ( that is to anyone who didn't sleep through middle school science ) that the towers & 7 were destroyed by planned & engineered events NOT the product of aircraft crashes + fire. The manner of destruction of the towers & 7 could not have happened unless the energy to accomplish the destruction had focus, without focus, you may as well have thrown mass quantities of fire-crackers around the inside of the buildings and set them off at random, to no result at all. Given an examination of the events from a probability POV, it is seen to be most improbable that airliners ( that BTW are not designed to function as missiles and can not be expected to perform as missiles ) could penetrate the WTC walls as was alleged for the North tower & South tower and completely disappear inside. This can only be interpreted as pursuant to a goal of giving the appearance that there were commercial airliners used as weapons but not actually involving any real airliners.

analog phones can be used during flights. With a hijacking, the passengers were hardly concerned with interfering signals to instruments, they wanted to speak to their loved ones. Not every passenger phone was used, but those who could get a signal I sure tried.