Yep, Americans are so much more freer because of their guns

[Dr Grump]

The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns.

<snip>
Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns. From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American.

<snip>
Rather, they found, in data that has since been repeatedly confirmed, that American crime is simply more lethal. A New Yorker is just as likely to be robbed as a Londoner, for instance, but the New Yorker is 54 times more likely to be killed in the process.

<snip>
Switzerland has the second-highest gun ownership rate of any developed country, about half that of the United States. Its gun homicide rate in 2004 was 7.7 per million people — unusually high, in keeping with the relationship between gun ownership and murders, but still a fraction of the rate in the United States.

Swiss gun laws are more stringent, setting a higher bar for securing and keeping a license, for selling guns and for the types of guns that can be owned. Such laws reflect more than just tighter restrictions. They imply a different way of thinking about guns, as something that citizens must affirmatively earn the right to own.

The United States is one of only three countries, along with Mexico and Guatemala, that begin with the opposite assumption: that people have an inherent right to own guns.

“In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate,” Dan Hodges, a British journalist, wrote in a post on Twitter two years ago. “Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.”

What Explains U.S. Mass Shootings? International Comparisons Suggest an Answer

 

[Jackson]

Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns. From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American.

And if there was strict gun control , fugitive and criminal Americans would own 98% of the guns in America and the "normal" people would be essentially defenseless.

 

[Dr Grump]

Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns. From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American.

And if there was strict gun control , fugitive and criminal Americans would own 98% of the guns in America and the "normal" people would be essentially defenseless.

Sure they would. Like in Canada, Australia, NZ, Ireland, UK, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, The Netherlands....oh, that's right, they're not....

 

[JokerX27505]

Yep, Americans are so much more freer because of their guns

Based on the rest of the post I assume you meant Americans are soooo much more safer because of their guns. "sarcastic tone" since technically yeah being able to have guns is "freer" than not being able to have them.

<snip>
Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns. From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American.

The first sentence here does not support the seconds agenda being forwarded which is funny but the duh when humans decide to hurt others they typically use whats available to them in America its guns compare this with other weapons and countries and what you would find that the numbers of victims in mass murders mirror its populations beliefs/values. If your goal was lowering the number of lives taken in mass killings the biggest variable to tackle wouldn't be the weapon the murderer has but his beliefs/values he uses to justify killing people.

<snip>
Rather, they found, in data that has since been repeatedly confirmed, that American crime is simply more lethal. A New Yorker is just as likely to be robbed as a Londoner, for instance, but the New Yorker is 54 times more likely to be killed in the process.

We can agree that because of the vast amount of guns in America that of course they will be used in nefarious ways just as the opposite is true because of the number of guns in the U.S., homeowners are more protected giving fathers an easier time protecting their wives and children as they are obligated to do so and also providing a check&balance to the government so there is a far less chance that the government becomes separate from the people who it works for "the people" becoming tyrannical as has happened throughout history.


<snip>
Switzerland has the second-highest gun ownership rate of any developed country, about half that of the United States. Its gun homicide rate in 2004 was 7.7 per million people — unusually high, in keeping with the relationship between gun ownership and murders, but still a fraction of the rate in the United States.
Swiss gun laws are more stringent, setting a higher bar for securing and keeping a license, for selling guns and for the types of guns that can be owned. Such laws reflect more than just tighter restrictions. They imply a different way of thinking about guns, as something that citizens must affirmatively earn the right to own.

The United States is one of only three countries, along with Mexico and Guatemala, that begin with the opposite assumption: that people have an inherent right to own guns.

It is extremely difficult to find a direct correlation between a lower incidence of gun related crimes and the existence of strict firearms regulations. In Canada, for example, when handguns were most strictly regulated the statistics note a dramatic increase in the percentage of handguns used in all homicides. Conversely, in very strict regulated Germany, gun related crime is significantly higher than in countries like Israel and Switzerland that have less restrictive, simpler legislation." (Library of Congress, "Firearms Regulations in Various Foreign Countries, May 1998.")Many foreign countries have lower crime rates, and less restrictive firearms laws, than parts of the U.S. that have more restrictions. Many other countries have substantially low crime rates, despite having very different firearms laws. Despite the highly restrictive laws, "Italy`s gun law, `the most restrictive in Europe,` had left Italy's southern provinces alone with a minimum of a thousand firearm murders a year, thirty times Switzerland's total." (Richard A. I. Munday, Most Armed & Most Free?, Brightlingsea, Essex: Piedmont Publishing, 1996.)
But like I said before the countries beliefs/values are a variable.

“In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate,” Dan Hodges, a British journalist, wrote in a post on Twitter two years ago. “Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.”

Anyone who thinks America's population believes killing children is bearable is asinine in the highest degree that is why people fight tooth and nail for the right to protect them themselves instead of relying on a third party that cant get too every child's need instantly when called for.


We both want the same thing but assuming that people who disagree with you are nefarious instead of incompetent is a dangerous accusation and should perhaps refrain from doing so without good evidence. Just because we disagree does not make one of us an angel and the other the devil, most of the time its one party having less facts with the same size heart and compassion than the other.

Also stop using Vox as a source you would be better off opening a fortune cookie for truth.



.

 

[Dr Grump]

Also stop using Vox as a source you would be better off opening a fortune cookie for truth.

.

I assume you read the whole article. Debunk it. Take you time. I expect links though. Not your opinion.

Since when has Vox become the NY Times...

 

[JokerX27505]

Also stop using Vox as a source you would be better off opening a fortune cookie for truth.

.

I assume you read the whole article. Debunk it. Take you time. I expect links though. Not your opinion.

Since when has Vox become the NY Times...

all that and you get hung up on the obvious joke XD its like the terminator scene where he scans all the objects and people up and down around him looking for the perfect outfit but in this case its looking for something you have the ability to refute.
The article is just reposting the UNDP but the point was perhaps looking at the facts that are hidden and not just the cherry pickings of vox.

 

[2aguy]

The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns.

<snip>
Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns. From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American.

<snip>
Rather, they found, in data that has since been repeatedly confirmed, that American crime is simply more lethal. A New Yorker is just as likely to be robbed as a Londoner, for instance, but the New Yorker is 54 times more likely to be killed in the process.

<snip>
Switzerland has the second-highest gun ownership rate of any developed country, about half that of the United States. Its gun homicide rate in 2004 was 7.7 per million people — unusually high, in keeping with the relationship between gun ownership and murders, but still a fraction of the rate in the United States.

Swiss gun laws are more stringent, setting a higher bar for securing and keeping a license, for selling guns and for the types of guns that can be owned. Such laws reflect more than just tighter restrictions. They imply a different way of thinking about guns, as something that citizens must affirmatively earn the right to own.

The United States is one of only three countries, along with Mexico and Guatemala, that begin with the opposite assumption: that people have an inherent right to own guns.

“In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate,” Dan Hodges, a British journalist, wrote in a post on Twitter two years ago. “Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.”

What Explains U.S. Mass Shootings? International Comparisons Suggest an Answer

No....take the same population in Europe...including the separate countries and we are about the same as them....they just have higher body counts in each event.....

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminals...and...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Europe banned weapons for their citizens in the 1920s.....and in the late 1930s, they sent large numbers of their unarmed people...about 12 million to the German socialist, gas chambers.........they have nothing to teach us about guns...

 

[2aguy]

Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns. From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American.

And if there was strict gun control , fugitive and criminal Americans would own 98% of the guns in America and the "normal" people would be essentially defenseless.

Sure they would. Like in Canada, Australia, NZ, Ireland, UK, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, The Netherlands....oh, that's right, they're not....

You have seen the growing gun crime rates in all of those countries...specifically the U.K. Australia, Canada, and Sweden....you are wrong......

The U.K......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.




-------

Two men stabbed dead within hours as violent crime soars in London

The shocking attacks come as new figures revealed crime overall in London is rising, with significant increases in cases of youth violence.


A total of 35 young people under the age of 25 have been murdered in the capital in the last 12 months, an 84 per cent rise on the same period last year.

The number of cases of serious youth violence - a measure of gang activity - also rose by 18 per cent.

-----


as well as a 16 per cent rise in the number of rapes.

-------

Gun crime rose by nearly 19 per cent and the number of shootings was up by 11 per cent to 338.

==============

London now more dangerous than New York City, crime stats suggest

While both London and New York have populations of around 8 million, figures suggest you are almost six times more likely to be burgled in the British capital than in the US city, and one and a half times more likely to fall victim to a robbery.

London has almost three times the number of reported rapes and while the murder rate in New York remains higher, the gap is narrowing dramatically.


The change in fortunes of the two global cities has been put down largely to the difference in tactics adopted by the two police forces.

Both Scotland Yard and the New York City Police Department (NYPD) have just over 30,000 officers each and budgets of around £3 billion a year.

But in the mid-1990s spiralling crime rates in New York - sparked by the crack cocaine epidemic - resulted in radical a new approach being adopted by the city's police department.

Under the leadership of Mayor Rudy Giuliani, and police commissioner, Bill Bratton, the NYPD introduced a zero tolerance approach to low level crime and flooded problem areas with patrols.

The force also put a huge amount of emphasis on community policing in order to build bridges between the police and members of the public.

As a result the murder plummeted from a high in 1990 of over 2,000 to a record low of 335 last year.

That figure is expected to fall even lower this year, and is currently in line to dip below 240.

=======


Arrests plunge by half in 10 years despite soaring crime rate

The new figures come just days after it was revealed the total number of crimes recorded year on year passed the 5 million mark for the first time in a decade.

In the year ending March 2017, only 11 per cent of crimes resulted in someone being charged. In almost half of all crimes (48 per cent) no suspects were identified.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...f-destruction-as-cowboy-builder-a3668551.html

Former home secretary David Blunkett claimed officers were more likely to give warnings rather than arrest people in a bid to avoid paperwork.


However, others have pointed to the pressure put on the dwindling number of officers, with a 13 per cent drop in numbers recorded by the Home Office between 2010 and 2016.

Lord Blunkett said: "Police are reluctant to arrest people because of the amount of paperwork involved, so officers are encouraged to give warnings rather than arrest people.

"That means people are on the street who might otherwise be prosecuted and it sends a signal that reverberates very quickly, leading criminals to think they can get away with it."

Campaigners have warned victims are losing confidence in police forces that increasingly treat crimes such as burglary and assault as minor incidents.

 

[2aguy]

Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns. From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American.

And if there was strict gun control , fugitive and criminal Americans would own 98% of the guns in America and the "normal" people would be essentially defenseless.

Sure they would. Like in Canada, Australia, NZ, Ireland, UK, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, The Netherlands....oh, that's right, they're not....

Australia.....

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

 

[2aguy]

Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns. From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American.

And if there was strict gun control , fugitive and criminal Americans would own 98% of the guns in America and the "normal" people would be essentially defenseless.

Sure they would. Like in Canada, Australia, NZ, Ireland, UK, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, The Netherlands....oh, that's right, they're not....

Canada...

Toronto sees 200% spike in fatal shootings so far this year


Fatal shootings in Toronto have increased 200 per cent in the first four months of this year as compared to the same time last year, police statistics reveal.

• Man, 24, arrested, charged in double homicide at Victoria Park and Ellesmere
  

In the first four months of 2016, the figures show there were 18 homicides involving guns, compared to six fatal shootings by this time in 2015.



----Police say they believe the rise in shooting deaths is partly due to criminals carrying their guns instead of hiding them in secure places.

"It's a considerable increase in homicides," Staff Inspector Greg McLane of Toronto Police's homicide squad said Tuesday.

"It's hard to say whether there are more guns out there, but I'm of the belief that more people are carrying their guns. I ask myself this question: why do street gang and criminal lifestyle people feel they can walk around in communities in the city without fear of being stopped by police?"

McLane said he thinks people previously stored their guns for easy access, including in such unlikely places as trees and diaper bags, but now they are more likely to keep them on their persons.

======================
Gun crime up 56% in Toronto....in 2015...

Toronto seeing 56% increase in shootings in 2015

TORONTO - The number of shootings in Toronto is way up compared to the past two years, according to new police stats.
The Toronto Police Service’s year-to-date numbers show 103 people have been killed or injured in shootings this year — a 56% increase compared to this point last year and a 25.6% increase compared to 2013.
And since those figures were released last week, two more people have been shot to death and five more sent to hospital.
Toronto hasn’t seen this type of spike in gun violence since 2012, which has many people asking what’s being done to address the problem.
=======
Public Health and Gun Control --- A Review (Part II: Gun Violence and Constitutional Issues) | Hacienda Publishing

In the chapter "Bad Medicine --- Doctors and Guns," Kates and associates describe a particularly egregious example of editorial bias and censorship by The New England Journal of Medicine.(6) In 1989, two studies were independently submitted for publication to NEJM. Both authors were affiliated with the University of Washington School of Public Health. One study by Dr. John H. Sloan was a selective two-city comparison of homicide rates in Vancouver, British Columbia, and Seattle, Washington.(21) The other paper was a comprehensive comparison study between the U.S. and Canada by Dr. Brandon Centerwall. Predictably, the editors of the NEJMchose to publish Sloan et al's article with inferior but orthodox data claiming erroneously that severe gun control policies had reduced Canadian homicides and rejected Centerwall's superior study showing that such policies had not affected the rate of homicides in Canada. In fact, the homicide rates were lower in Vancouver before the restrictive gun control laws had been passed in Canada and in fact, rose after the laws were passed. The Vancouver homicide rate increased 25 percent after the institution of the 1977 Canadian law. Sloan and associates glossed over the disparet ethnic compositions of Seattle and Vancouver. When the rates of homicides for whites are compared in both of the cities it turns out that the rate of homicide in Seattle is actually lower than in Vancouver while blacks and hispanics have higher rates of homicides in Seattle was not mentioned by these investigators.

Dr. Centerwall's paper on the comparitive rates of homicides in the U.S. and Canada was finally published in the American Journal of Epidemiology, but his valuable research was not really made widely available to the public.(22) In contradistinction to his valuable gun research data, Centerwall's other research pointing to the effects of TV violence affecting homicide rates have been made widely available, but his data exculpating gun availability and homicide rates has not.(23-25)

 

[2aguy]

Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns. From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American.

And if there was strict gun control , fugitive and criminal Americans would own 98% of the guns in America and the "normal" people would be essentially defenseless.

Sure they would. Like in Canada, Australia, NZ, Ireland, UK, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, The Netherlands....oh, that's right, they're not....

Sweden.....

Why Sweden has more fatal shootings per capita than Norway and Germany

In 2016, some 250 shootings (random, fatal and non-fatal) were registered by police in Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö. In 2014, that number came to 200, indicating that Sweden is experiencing a drastic rise in such incidents.

“We don't really know why yet, but what we can see is that the increase comes as we also see a rise in gang-related crimes and a growing number of criminal networks,” Manne Gerell, a criminologist at Malmö University, told The Local, after Swedish public radio first wrote about new research he is involved in.

 

[JokerX27505]

Dude the copy and paste is too much for me! haha

 

[2aguy]

Dude the copy and paste is too much for me! haha

Yeah...it can be a lot of information...but it shows he doesn't know what he is talking about...he hears the last gun grabber spew talking points and he thinks it's the truth about what is happening now.....

 

[fncceo]

Yep, Americans are so much more freer because of their guns

At least we're not British ...

 

[2aguy]

Yep, Americans are so much more freer because of their guns

At least we're not British ...

Yeah....gun crime is going through the roof in Britain....an island, that banned guns....and London is now more dangerous than New York city.....and the gun crime rate in London went up another 42% last year.....and don't even start on the number of people who have acid thrown in their faces there....

 

[Dr Grump]

all that and you get hung up on the obvious joke XD its like the terminator scene where he scans all the objects and people up and down around him looking for the perfect outfit but in this case its looking for something you have the ability to refute.
The article is just reposting the UNDP but the point was perhaps looking at the facts that are hidden and not just the cherry pickings of vox.

It wasn't cherry picking. When you show snippets of an article it is to highlight the main points (well, that is what I do). I put the link in for a reason. So the whole article can be read.

 

[Dr Grump]

At least we're not British ...

Um, okay....

 

[fncceo]

At least we're not British ...

Um, okay....

Nice retort.

 

[Peach]

The Second Amendment nust be addressed.

 

[Dr Grump]

Nice retort.

Well, I'm sure you were making a point.