Young republicans push back!!!!!!!!!!!

[manu1959]

Double standard?

Premise 1: A group has a celebration for their race, gender, ethnicity, etc: 100%. Do what you want, I could care less.

Premise 2: A group has a celebration that is completely reactionary to a celebration another group is already having; this "celebration" isn't a celebration at all, merely a statement being made in a condescending way to antoher group: don't agree with this

Also, you'll find you'll achieve more effective results in conversation if you don't yell, curse, and sputter. If this isn't grounds for a moderator's intervention, I don't know what is.

premise no1 is the fag and lesbos right?

and premise number 2 is us white dudes

no wait..premise no 2 is the fags and no1 is the white dues with hot chicks

hang on i am out of vino back in a sec

 

[007]

Double standard?

Premise 1: A group has a celebration for their race, gender, ethnicity, etc: 100%. Do what you want, I could care less.

Premise 2: A group has a celebration that is completely reactionary to a celebration another group is already having; this "celebration" isn't a celebration at all, merely a statement being made in a condescending way to antoher group: don't agree with this

Also, you'll find you'll achieve more effective results in conversation if you don't yell, curse, and sputter. If this isn't grounds for a moderator's intervention, I don't know what is.

My God nakey... you are so full of shit it makes my head hurt.

So let me get this straight... "you called this heterosexual group and asked them *why* they wanted to have their party"? No? Then wait a minute... then how can you be so cock sure... hold on... not COCK sure... I'll have to say PUSSY sure... wait, no, that's for ME, yeah... you'd be COCK sure, that you can say WHY they're having they're celebration?

And please don't tell me it's just you and your wisdom that's figured this out. I'd believe that you "DIVINDED" your accusation before that...

 

[Trigg]

why can't us white dudes just have a party with nobody but white dudes....

Because apparently, in this country, celebrating being white or straight is racist and homophobic.

I really have never seen the purpose of gay pride. Does anyone really need to know what goes on in someone elses bedroom???

I do agree that the "straight pride parade" was reactionary to the "gay pride parade", but so what. These students were tired of having the gay agenda stuffed down their throat, so they had a parade. Again, I don't see a reason to have any parades celebrating what goes on IN THE BEDROOM, geez... it's private... leave it in private.

 

[007]

Because apparently, in this country, celebrating being white or straight is racist and homophobic.

I really have never seen the purpose of gay pride. Does anyone really need to know what goes on in someone elses bedroom???

I do agree that the "straight pride parade" was reactionary to the "gay pride parade", but so what. These students were tired of having the gay agenda stuffed down their throat, so they had a parade. Again, I don't see a reason to have any parades celebrating what goes on IN THE BEDROOM, geez... it's private... leave it in private.

The very basic, simple, and blazingly apparent reason this whole thing is an issue, is the queers have a double standard. "We can do it but you can't".

It's... as... simple... as... that.

And it's just ANOTHER example of liberals at work.

I agree with the premise, we don't need a "pride" this or that about anything.

 

[no1tovote4]

Because apparently, in this country, celebrating being white or straight is racist and homophobic.

Why the heck would I want to celebrate that I am Caucasian and Heterosexual? I certainly don't define my whole life around those facts.

I think the problem is the whole idea of defining yourself as a minority because of _________(Insert Reason Here). Therefore protections must come from the Federal Government in order to keep your right to ________(Insert "Right" Here). Now at this point you cannot digress from fighting for these "rights" and must only define yourself as this minority.

You can really make a Bureaucratic form for almost every function of the Liberal Agenda as they all follow exactly the same pattern.

 

[dilloduck]

Why the heck would I want to celebrate that I am Caucasian and Heterosexual? I certainly don't define my whole life around those facts.

I think the problem is the whole idea of defining yourself as a minority because of _________(Insert Reason Here). Therefore protections must come from the Federal Government in order to keep your right to ________(Insert "Right" Here). Now at this point you cannot digress from fighting for these "rights" and must only define yourself as this minority.

You can really make a Bureaucratic form for almost every function of the Liberal Agenda as they all follow exactly the same pattern.

True---all resulting in---"I get to do whatever I want to do because_____."

 

[dmp]

It won't be long before "Child Molestor's Week" is celebrated. Those who molest children freely participate in their behavior, many feel they are the way they are from birth - Their deviant behavior stems from the same lack of control that homosexuals exhibit. "Rapists and Murders Month" should follow...maybe we'll see a "Used Car Salesmen Week" as well?

All of those things are types of behaviours people CHOOSE to participate in...same as Homosexuality. If Homosexual-Pride weeks happen, ANY group who shares the same behaviour patterns should be allowed to have a parade.

 

[nakedemperor]

It won't be long before "Child Molestor's Week" is celebrated. Those who molest children freely participate in their behavior, many feel they are the way they are from birth - Their deviant behavior stems from the same lack of control that homosexuals exhibit. "Rapists and Murders Month" should follow...maybe we'll see a "Used Car Salesmen Week" as well?

All of those things are types of behaviours people CHOOSE to participate in...same as Homosexuality. If Homosexual-Pride weeks happen, ANY group who shares the same behaviour patterns should be allowed to have a parade.

Child molestor's harm children and break the law. Rapists and murderers do the same.

Homosexuals harm no one, unless they (like anyone) have an STD and fail to alert their partner and have protected sex. This "lack of self control" exhibited by homosexuals doesn't really make sense to me. I know dozens of homosexuals at Brown, and probably twice that number back home in NYC, and none of them are any more or less promiscuous than the average 18-25 year old. I think this may be a generalization that holds true for some pockets of gay communities but not necessarily for the gay community at large. The disproportionate amount of homosexual child molestors I think stems from a couple of things-- first, all men who rape/molest boys aren't necessarily homosexuals; they're deranged people who might be exhibited a character trait that isn't necessarily their true sexuality. Obviously this argument doesn't hold water for those who believe homosexual acts make you gay and abstaining from homosexual acts makes you straight, but its just IMHO. Second, homosexuals have a much harder time dealing with their psychological and cognitive development in a society with is largely intolerant of their sexuality. This friction could lead to derangement at the developmental level and cause psychological damage to homosexuals, resulting in their actions.

This isn't letting one of the hook, its an explanation, not an excuse, and rapists and molesters whomever they are and whatever their motives should be punished equally.

 

[manu1959]

.... homosexuals have a much harder time dealing with their psychological and cognitive development in a society with is largely intolerant of their sexuality. This friction could lead to derangement at the developmental level and cause psychological damage to homosexuals, resulting in their actions...

classic...it is societies fault that homosexuals are messed up

 

[manu1959]

It won't be long before "Child Molestor's Week" is celebrated. Those who molest children freely participate in their behavior, many feel they are the way they are from birth - Their deviant behavior stems from the same lack of control that homosexuals exhibit. "Rapists and Murders Month" should follow...maybe we'll see a "Used Car Salesmen Week" as well?

All of those things are types of behaviours people CHOOSE to participate in...same as Homosexuality. If Homosexual-Pride weeks happen, ANY group who shares the same behaviour patterns should be allowed to have a parade.

check out the ACLU's defense of NAMBLA :shocked:

 

[dmp]

Child molestor's harm children and break the law. Rapists and murderers do the same.

Homosexuals harm no one, unless they (like anyone) have an STD and fail to alert their partner and have protected sex. This "lack of self control" exhibited by homosexuals doesn't really make sense to me. I know dozens of homosexuals at Brown, and probably twice that number back home in NYC, and none of them are any more or less promiscuous than the average 18-25 year old. I think this may be a generalization that holds true for some pockets of gay communities but not necessarily for the gay community at large. The disproportionate amount of homosexual child molestors I think stems from a couple of things-- first, all men who rape/molest boys aren't necessarily homosexuals; they're deranged people who might be exhibited a character trait that isn't necessarily their true sexuality. Obviously this argument doesn't hold water for those who believe homosexual acts make you gay and abstaining from homosexual acts makes you straight, but its just IMHO. Second, homosexuals have a much harder time dealing with their psychological and cognitive development in a society with is largely intolerant of their sexuality. This friction could lead to derangement at the developmental level and cause psychological damage to homosexuals, resulting in their actions.

This isn't letting one of the hook, its an explanation, not an excuse, and rapists and molesters whomever they are and whatever their motives should be punished equally.

Not all rapists and molesters should be convicted - yet are. My point is, ALL behaviors listed are the result of people's decisions to participate. If homosexuals are 'minorities', 'murderers', 'rapists', and 'used car salesmen' should ALSO seek protection/sanction of their behaviour. There are some who feel sex between adults and children is perfectly NORMAL, because they could probably cite a pigmy gazelle somewhere in nature where it occurs. Their willful actions are no less valid than homosexuals' willfull actions. Killing takes place EVERYWHERE in the animal kingdom - thus, should be considered NATURAL by society. Some killers say they were BORN that way, I mean, after all, who would CHOOSE to be a killer and face such HORRIBLE persecution. Nobody would CHOOSE a killer/Rapist lifestyle, therefore they MUST be born that way, right?

I wonder if you will ever concede that homosexuality is 100% the choice of the participant, and NOT some inate uncontrollable urge which should be thought of as 'normal'.

 

[nakedemperor]

Not all rapists and molesters should be convicted - yet are. My point is, ALL behaviors listed are the result of people's decisions to participate.

Homosexuality is not a behavior. It has behavioral manifestations. Murder is a behavior. Molestation is a behavior. Rape is a behavior.

If homosexuals are 'minorities', 'murderers', 'rapists', and 'used car salesmen' should ALSO seek protection/sanction of their behaviour.

Murderers and rapists could, if they chose to, celebrate their minority status, but everyone would condemn if because they're celebrating harmful behavior. Homosexuals' celebrations celebrate non-harmful behavior, and thus are very different from the other hypothetical celebrations you mentioned. It is more like "used car salesmen" celebrations; some people might not understand why salesmen and homosexuals want to celebrate they're differences, but because they are not harmful differences with harmful behavioral manifestations, they should not be included in your 'murderers and rapists' analogy.

There are some who feel sex between adults and children is perfectly NORMAL, because they could probably cite a pigmy gazelle somewhere in nature where it occurs.

Homosexuals point to homosexuality in nature to assert that being gay isn't predicated on doing or not doing gay things. They don't point to homosexuality in nature to assert whether it is "good" or "bad"; that's a completely different argument which anti-gays rebut with (mistakenly) when gays try to prove that there is something genetic or psychological that predisposes one to homosexuality (as opposed to merely choosing to participate in homosexual acts). Pointing to animals strips away the social pressures and ego-driven choices that human beings make, showing that homosexuality occuring in nature must be independant of these singularly human external influences.

Similarly, anyone who points to nature to assert whether sex with children is mistakenly assuming that if it happens in nature it's necessarily "good" or "acceptable". All they've proven is that animals do it too, and do so without external societal influences (I don't even know if your pigmy gazzelle reference was true, but I'm speaking to the point if it is true). Some anti-gay proponents will read this paragraph and think that I'm being hypocritical, but the key difference remains: gays point to nature to show that homosexuality isn't based on one's behavior (therefore there is no "choice" involved) but not necessarily to prove that homosexuality is acceptable (we hold that to be self evident based on the principles of non-harm and expression of romance, not merely sexual urges), whereas pedophiles (mistakenly) point to nature to justify their actions as acceptable because it is found in nature (and like D said, this is a false premise).

Their willful actions are no less valid than homosexuals' willfull actions. Killing takes place EVERYWHERE in the animal kingdom - thus, should be considered NATURAL by society. Some killers say they were BORN that way, I mean, after all, who would CHOOSE to be a killer and face such HORRIBLE persecution. Nobody would CHOOSE a killer/Rapist lifestyle, therefore they MUST be born that way, right?

Like I said, you're not a killer until you've killed someone, and you're not a rapist until you've raped someone; some people are more psychological prone to these things, and should seek help because the behavioral manifestations of these psychological conditions are unacceptable and harmful. Participating in homosexuals acts, on the other, hand, doesn't make you gay. You could also be gay and not ever participate in homosexual acts. The difference is, these behavioral manifestations of a certain psyhological predisposition aren't harmful or (we think) societally unacceptable.

I wonder if you will ever concede that homosexuality is 100% the choice of the participant, and NOT some inate uncontrollable urge which should be thought of as 'normal'.

Homosexuality is 0% the choice of the participant. Homosexual acts are 100% the chice of the participant. But these urges, unlike murder and rape (where your argument breaks down) aren't harmful or unacceptable.

 

[Trigg]

Homosexuals harm no one, unless they (like anyone) have an STD and fail to alert their partner and have protected sex. This "lack of self control" exhibited by homosexuals doesn't really make sense to me. I know dozens of homosexuals at Brown, and probably twice that number back home in NYC, and none of them are any more or less promiscuous than the average 18-25 year old. I think this may be a generalization that holds true for some pockets of gay communities but not necessarily for the gay community at large. The disproportionate amount of homosexual child molestors I think stems from a couple of things-- first, all men who rape/molest boys aren't necessarily homosexuals; they're deranged people who might be exhibited a character trait that isn't necessarily their true sexuality. Obviously this argument doesn't hold water for those who believe homosexual acts make you gay and abstaining from homosexual acts makes you straight, but its just IMHO. Second, homosexuals have a much harder time dealing with their psychological and cognitive development in a society with is largely intolerant of their sexuality. This friction could lead to derangement at the developmental level and cause psychological damage to homosexuals, resulting in their actions.

None of this explains why gays feel the need to have "gay pride parades". Why would they feel the need to celebrate what they're doing in the bedroom??
The heterosexual collage students thought they'd have a "straight pride parade" , so what. Why would the gay students be against this? It's exclusionary, so what!! Gay pride is exclusionary to straight people!!

Maybe they were sick of the gay agenda being shoved down their throats and thought they'd do this to be smart asses, who knows. IMO if a collage is going to allow pride weeks, they have to let everyone have one, not just minorities and gays. Other wise it is a double standard.

 

[nakedemperor]

Maybe they were sick of the gay agenda being shoved down their throats and thought they'd do this to be smart asses, who knows. IMO if a collage is going to allow pride weeks, they have to let everyone have one, not just minorities and gays. Other wise it is a double standard.

Anyone is allowed to have one. But I think its petty, condescending, and unnecessary to have a completely reactionary celebration where the participants didn't create it to "celebrate" anything. It is, if anything, unintentionally legitimizing a gay pride week, but I doubt either side looks at it that way.

 

[dmp]

Homosexuals' celebrations celebrate non-harmful behavior

Keep telling yourself that, bro ...

• 
  From 1994 to 1997, the percentage of homosexual men reporting multiple partners and unprotected anal sex rose from 23.6 percent to 33.3 percent, with the largest increase among men under 25.The data relating to gay promiscuity were obtained from self-identified gay men. Some advocates argue that the average would be lower if closeted homosexuals were included in the statistics. That is likely true, according to data obtained in a 2000 survey in Australia that tracked whether men who had sex with men were associated with the gay community. Men who were associated with the gay community were nearly four times as likely to have had more than 50 sex partners in the six months preceding the survey as men who were not associated with the gay community
  
• A study based upon statistics from 1986 through 1990 estimated that 20-year-old gay men had a 50 percent chance of becoming HIV positive by age 55.13 As of June 2001, nearly 64 percent of men with AIDS were men who have had sex with men.
  
• A study done in Baltimore and reported in the Archives of Internal Medicine found that gay men contracted syphilis at three to four times the rate of heterosexuals.
  
• Male homosexual behaviour is not simply either 'active' or 'passive,' since penile-anal, mouth-penile, and hand-anal sexual contact is usual for both partners, and mouth-anal contact is not infrequent. . . . Mouth-anal contact is the reason for the relatively high incidence of diseases caused by bowel pathogens in male homosexuals. Trauma may encourage the entry of micro-organisms and thus lead to primary syphilitic lesions occurring in the anogenital area. . . . In addition to sodomy, trauma may be caused by foreign bodies, including stimulators of various kinds, penile adornments, and prostheses
  
• Anal Cancer
  Chlamydia trachomatis
  Cryptosporidium
  Giardia lamblia
  Herpes simplex virus
  Human immunodeficiency virus
  Human papilloma virus
  Isospora belli
  Microsporidia
  Gonorrhea
  Viral hepatitis types B & C
  Syphilis
  
  -Sexual transmission of some of these diseases is so rare in the exclusively heterosexual population as to be virtually unknown. Others, while found among heterosexual and homosexual practitioners, are clearly predominated by those involved in homosexual activity. Syphilis, for example is found among heterosexual and homosexual practitioners. But in 1999, King County, Washington (Seattle), reported that 85 percent of syphilis cases were among self-identified homosexual practitioners.
  
  __________
  
  Doesn't Hurt Anyone ...
• Similarly, a study in the Journal of Clinical Pathology found that homosexual men had a much higher prevalence of pharyngeal (throat) gonorrhea--15.2 percent compared with 4.1 percent for heterosexual men
  
• In addition, the Archives of Internal Medicine found that homosexuals acquired syphilis at a rate ten times that of heterosexuals
  
• Recent studies show homosexuals have a substantially greater risk of suffering from a psychiatric problems than do heterosexuals. We see higher rates of suicide, depression, bulimia, antisocial personality disorder, and substance abuse. This paper highlights some new and significant considerations that reflect on the question of those mental illnesses and on their possible sources
  

I could go on and on...frankly, Homosexuals are sort of like crack addicts in so much that they cannot control their miss-placed desires - even if it kills them.

 

[nakedemperor]

Your critique is based on a health problem, not a homosexuality problem. Homosexuals who don't screen their partners and don't use protection deserve what they get, but you can't fault their sexual and romantic attraction towards men for that, you can fault poor decisions by the minority of gays in terms of safeguarding their own health. Heterosexuals transmit STDs to (granted at a lower rate because vaginal sex isn't as conducive to the spread of STDs), does that make heterosexuality harmful to others?

Also, do you have any data to post within the last 8 years? The trends may have shifted.

 

[dmp]

Heterosexuals transmit STDs to (granted at a lower rate because vaginal sex isn't as conducive to the spread of STDs), does that make heterosexuality harmful to others?

Yes - the only safe sex is when two virgins marry, and never have sex with others. However, what you seem to want to brush away by turning the topic to heterosexuals is: "Homosexuality is a destructive lifestyle choice, causing needless death of thousands. Statistics show quite easily the GREATLY increased 'damage' inflicted on homosexuals by homosexuals, AND damage to our society because of their behaviour choices (Increased risks of child molestation, etc)."


I'll look for more recent info - post some up if you find any, too.

 

[nakedemperor]

Yes - the only safe sex is when two virgins marry, and never have sex with others.

Agreed. And when safer sex, screening, and abstinence become more common in the homosexual community (I hope and expect, as should everyone) as a reaction to their being more prone to transmission of STDs, their own STD rates will go down. If this happens, I hope people stop refering to homosexuality as a destructive lifestyle and start realizing that unprotected sex and not screening one's partner is actual destructive lifestyle.

However, what you seem to want to brush away by turning the topic to heterosexuals is: "Homosexuality is a destructive lifestyle choice, causing needless death of thousands. Statistics show quite easily the GREATLY increased 'damage' inflicted on homosexuals by homosexuals, AND damage to our society because of their behaviour choices (Increased risks of child molestation, etc)."

I don't harbor any ill will towards heterosexuals because some of them have STDs-- I harbor ill will towards the heterosexuals who have unprotected sex and transmit STDs to their partners. This isn't a reason to abhor the "hetero lifestyle" its a reason to abhor the lifestyle of heteros (and homos) who disregard their own health and the health of others.

I'll look for more recent info - post some up if you find any, too.

Will do cap'n

 

[dmp]

I don't harbor any ill will towards heterosexuals because some of them have STDs-- I harbor ill will towards the heterosexuals who have unprotected sex and transmit STDs to their partners. This isn't a reason to abhor the "hetero lifestyle" its a reason to abhor the lifestyle of heteros (and homos) who disregard their own health and the health of others.

...because only sexually promiscuous people spread STDs at alarming rates - and those rates are even HIGHER among homosexuals - which tend to have more partners ANYWAY.

 

[nakedemperor]

...because only sexually promiscuous people spread STDs at alarming rates - and those rates are even HIGHER among homosexuals - which tend to have more partners ANYWAY.

Know of any recent studies on homosexual and heterosexual sexual partner rates?