Zimmerman

[Gadawg73]

[]Zimmerman is not white trash, he is Hispanic. I think you would qualify much more readily, living in a shit hole as you do. I would have no objection if Zimmerman patrolled my neighborhood, especially if I lived in a shit hole.

Once again, his father was visiting his fiance who was a resident of the community. Being whiny is bad enough, but being pathologically needy and an ignoramus to boot must be very difficult for you.

The suburb of Chicago I live in has an average family income of 88K...

And, no, I don't want white trash with guns wandering my neighborhood and I'm not sure why you would either.

Point was, he had a right to be there. Zimmerman did not have a right to shoot him, and the folks in Florida are not going to have a race riot over this trash. He's got an inevitable date with a shank in a shower...

If Martin attacked him he had every right to shoot him.
And more will be shot also as soon as the riot starts.
All legal. Time to stock up on #5 shells and hollow points.

 

[Meathead]

Where I did I say he was either?
And if you weren't so stupid, you would understand that I was trying to explain he can be both.
And you should never comment on someone's lack of intelligence either.

Sorry, it may have been impolite of me, but I don't suffer fools gladly. I not big on tolerating self-righteous idiots either.

So how do you tolerate yourself?

Stupid question, but par for the course. Again, I have a problem with fools and self-righteous idiots. And again, I apologize for being impolite, but I am tiring of that as well.

 

[jtpr312]

[


Chicago? Lol, you ALREADY have enough black trash running around with illegally concealed handguns in your neck of the woods. Tell us, how has that no guns allowed program worked out over the years for your murder rates and violent crime rates in chicago?

Thank you so much for showing your racism...

Hey, Gadawg... others who aren't racist. When are you all going to take this clown to task.

You a-holes are too much. It's now rascist to use DOJ, Dept of Correction and Police Dept crime stats? Kiss my Irish ass you scrotey sob. It is what it is, and the FACT is that the DOJ (That's the Dept of Justice), the Ill DOC and Chicago PD statistics say you have a large, large, large number of young negro males arrested with guns or arrested for committing firearm related offenses. You want to whine and cry rascism, take it up with the freaking negroes who cause these DOJ. DOC and CPD numbers to be so high NOT the man who just relays the facts.

 

[Gadawg73]

[

No it does not make him "a child" in the criminal courts of every state.
Turn the tables, Martin carrying a gun and shoots Zimmerman.
Martin gets tried as an adult.
And you would crying for him to be let go because Zimmerman is white and Martin is a black "child".

If Martin had shot Zimmerman, he'd have been arrested that very night. He'd have gotten a shitty public defender and the only reason he wouldn't be on death row is because we finally got a Supreme court to rule that we can't execute people for crimes committed as children.

Whew. It was kind of disturbing being in the same club with Iran and Saudi Arabia there.

You are not very bright Joe. You think you are as you have an opinion on everything and always know everything about everything.
A little bit of information once again for you Joe: most public defenders are some of the best criminal defense attorneys around. Get it Joe? MOST And guess why? Because they handle MORE cases than most criminal lawyers in private practice, take more cases to trial and try more cases in a year than most criminal lawyers do in a decade. Most jurisdictions use private lawyers anyway and the state pays them about 60% of their normal rate. WELL DUH Additionally, in most ALL murder cases the defendant is given a PRIVATE attorney that is skilled in his trade of defending murder cases and the state pays for it.
You watch too much TV. You do not know shit about criminal defense law, the court system, lawyers or public defenders. Come to think of it, you do not jack shit about much of what you claim you do.

 

[Luissa]

Sorry, it may have been impolite of me, but I don't suffer fools gladly. I not big on tolerating self-righteous idiots either.

So how do you tolerate yourself?

Stupid question, but par for the course. Again, I have a problem with fools and self-righteous idiots. And again, I apologize for being impolite, but I am tiring of that as well.

So you have problem with yourself?

 

[Gadawg73]

The person he was stalking was killed. You heard him say someone is following him and his girlfriend said to run. He did and was killed. Poor kid.

What was the sentence handed down to Zimmerman for stalking today?
I thought there was a presumption of innocence in The United States Contsitution?
All claims that Zimmerman is a stalker are to be ignored because under the Constitution all defendants are presumed innocent.
Do you know you live in the United States and we have a Constitution here?
Welcome to America. Where have you been living before moving here recently?

Following someone is not "stalking" him. This is the most accepted definition of stalking:

"A form of harassment generally comprised of repeated persistent following with no legitimate reason and with the intention of harming, or so as to arouse anxiety or fear of harm in the person being followed. Stalking may also take the form of harassing telephone calls, computer communications, letter-writing, etc."

Nothing Zimmerman did fit that definition. The record is clear that Zimmerman was on neighborhood watch and observed someone he knew didn't reside in the area. Since there had been a number of recent burglaries in the neighborhood, Zimmerman called the police. So far, nothing illegal, in fact so far Zimmerman is doing everything that a good man would do.

After Zimmerman made the call, he was advised not to follow Martin, and he said he obeyed the recommendation. There is not one shred of credible evidence that shows Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after that. Zimmerman reported he had lost sight of Martin and then headed back to his truck. There is not a thread of credible evidence to disprove what Zimmerman said. Zimmerman claimed that Martin approached him from behind and hit hm on the head, knocking him to the ground. Eyewitnesses reported seeing Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him as he called for help.

The forensic evidence is conclusive: Martin was shot at point-blank range while he was on top of Zimmerman, beating him. I would suggest to all you Martin defenders, that if Zimmerman really wanted to kill Martin, he would not have waited until Martin knocked him to the ground. Those people who suggest that Martin was shot as he was running away from Zimmerman are most likely racist fools who didn't take the time to read anything about the case. Clearly, it didn't happen that way.

Martin's attack on Zimmerman cannot be justified. Under the law, as soon as Martin hit Zimmerman upside the head, Martin became the criminal and Zimmerman became the victim.

In this country, one does not have the right to physically assault someone just because they don't like what they're doing. Being followed does not justify beating the crap out of the one who is following you. Following someone is not a crime, but beating them is.

I'm sorry that a young man died. But since it is highly likely that Zimmerman would have been killed or at least grievously injured if he had not ended the attack with deadly force, Zimmerman's actions were justified both legally and morally.

Have any of you Martin defenders ever paused to ponder what would have happened to Zimmerman if he had not defended himself the only way he could? Would his "following" of Martin justified him being beaten to death?

My analysis: Martin was a hot-head who did not like anyone looking at him the wrong way. He resented a White man observing him and decided to teach that White man a lesson. Martin, the NO_LIMIT_NIGGA (Martin's Facebook screen name), sucker-punched Zimmerman, and then straddled him pounding him around the head and shoulders. Zimmerman had no choice but to use deadly force and he did. Zimmerman did not start the fight, Martin did. The NO_LIMIT_NIGGA found out - too late, unfortunately - that there indeed are limits.

Where have I defended Martin, Professor?

 

[jtpr312]

Funny how libs think Zimmerman is white for purposes of crimes, but he'd get a hispanic status for university admissions.

Lol. Liberal think at it's best.

 

[Meathead]

So how do you tolerate yourself?

Stupid question, but par for the course. Again, I have a problem with fools and self-righteous idiots. And again, I apologize for being impolite, but I am tiring of that as well.

So you have problem with yourself?

As I said, I do not suffer fools gladly. It's been fun Luissa, Ciao.

 

[Amelia]

There is white Latino and non white Latino, Zimmerman is white, tard.

Zimmerman should be convicted because he's white and offed a black drug addict thug. We don't even need a trial for that.

Martin was a drug addict? First I heard of that.

You didn't hear that he had marijuana in his system when he died?

Or you question the "addict" appellation?

 

[jtpr312]

SO? Point was, he wasn't "trespassing" like the guy from "Germany's Bitch*" claimed he was.

(*What the Czech Republic has been most of it's history.)

If he left the public streets and cut between two homes, as Zimmerman and at least one witness states, he WAS trespassing. Just because you have a right to be in a neighborhood does not give you the right to cut through someone's back yard, or between people's homes. At night that would be very suspicious behavior, especially when done by a negro male in a dark colored hoodie at night.

First off they are not public streets, it is a private community and he wasn't trespassing. That is how these communities work. The green space is communal.

Actually no, you're wrong. Even in a gated community there are public, meaning ALL residents can use them, thoroughfares, and there is PRIVATE property, meaning the grass between the homes, and the front and back yards. The green between the homes in NOT a public thoroughfare, nor is your backyard and if he left the public use portions and cut between homes, or cut through back yards, as has been alleged, he most certainly was tresspassing.

 

[Luissa]

Zimmerman should be convicted because he's white and offed a black drug addict thug. We don't even need a trial for that.

Martin was a drug addict? First I heard of that.

You didn't hear that he had marijuana in his system when he died?

Or you question the "addict" appellation?

First off that doesn't make him a drug addict, second his levels of THC were low which would mean he didn't smoke that day.
Plus marihuana usually doesn't make one angry.

 

[jtpr312]

There is white Latino and non white Latino, Zimmerman is white, tard.

Zimmerman should be convicted because he's white and offed a black drug addict thug. We don't even need a trial for that.

Martin was a drug addict? First I heard of that.

The things you don't know, or have not heard of, can fill volumes if your posts are any indication of what you don't know.

 

[Luissa]

If he left the public streets and cut between two homes, as Zimmerman and at least one witness states, he WAS trespassing. Just because you have a right to be in a neighborhood does not give you the right to cut through someone's back yard, or between people's homes. At night that would be very suspicious behavior, especially when done by a negro male in a dark colored hoodie at night.

First off they are not public streets, it is a private community and he wasn't trespassing. That is how these communities work. The green space is communal.

Actually no, you're wrong. Even in a gated community there are public, meaning ALL residents can use them, thoroughfares, and there is PRIVATE property, meaning the grass between the homes, and the front and back yards. The green between the homes in NOT a public thoroughfare, nor is your backyard and if he left the public use portions and cut between homes, or cut through back yards, as has been alleged, he most certainly was tresspassing.

Sure bud.
He deserved be shot then.

 

[Wry Catcher]

world doesnt care anymore

Yea the liberal press only cared when the they were trying to put an "racist" WHITE MAN (even though he turned out to be Hispanic) in jail for killing an innocent black midget!

When the tables turned and the TRUE story became an innocent Hispanic defending himself from a LARGE guilty black teen, with a deeply troubled past, who was 100% in the wrong, then the liberal world didn't care!

Not only liberal people, sane people all over the world understand that an armed man killed an unarmed teenager. The armed man's actions were the proximate cause of the incident which lead to the teenagers death.

Give a coward a gun and he develops "Dutch Courage"; a common characteristic of wannabe cops and conservatives who lurk around here.

 

[jtpr312]

First off they are not public streets, it is a private community and he wasn't trespassing. That is how these communities work. The green space is communal.

Actually no, you're wrong. Even in a gated community there are public, meaning ALL residents can use them, thoroughfares, and there is PRIVATE property, meaning the grass between the homes, and the front and back yards. The green between the homes in NOT a public thoroughfare, nor is your backyard and if he left the public use portions and cut between homes, or cut through back yards, as has been alleged, he most certainly was tresspassing.

Sure bud.
He deserved be shot then.

He deserved to be shot because he acted like a typical n&**^r and attacked what he thought was a fat, helpless, out of shape white dude. Surprise, the dude had a gun. Screw trayvon, he was a thug and he got what he asked for.

 

[Luissa]

The community is still private property, ie private roads. There is more than one unit to a building, ie grass between buildings is communal property.
And a kid cutting between houses, which probably happens often, completely warrants a deranged man following him and shooting him.

 

[Luissa]

Actually no, you're wrong. Even in a gated community there are public, meaning ALL residents can use them, thoroughfares, and there is PRIVATE property, meaning the grass between the homes, and the front and back yards. The green between the homes in NOT a public thoroughfare, nor is your backyard and if he left the public use portions and cut between homes, or cut through back yards, as has been alleged, he most certainly was tresspassing.

Sure bud.
He deserved be shot then.

He deserved to be shot because he acted like a typical n&**^r and attacked what he thought was a fat, helpless, out of shape white dude. Surprise, the dude had a gun. Screw trayvon, he was a thug and he got what he asked for.

I am sorry Martin doesn't fit your stereotype. And you have no proof he attacked Zimmerman first, a deranged man who spent way too much time playing wannabe cop.

 

[Gadawg73]

Following someone is not "stalking" him. The this is the most accepted definition of stalking:

"A form of harassment generally comprised of repeated persistent following with no legitimate reason and with the intention of harming, or so as to arouse anxiety or fear of harm in the person being followed. Stalking may also take the form of harassing telephone calls, computer communications, letter-writing, etc."

Nothing Zimmerman did fit that definition. The record is clear that Zimmerman was on neighborhood watch and observed someone he knew didn't reside in the area. Since there had been a number of recent burglaries in the neighborhood, Zimmerman called the police. So far, nothing illegal, in fact so far Zimmerman is doing everything that a good man would do.

No disagreement there.

After Zimmerman made the call, he was advised not to follow Martin, and he said he obeyed the recommendation. There is not one shred of credible evidence that shows Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after that. Zimmerman reported he had lost sight of Martin and then headed back to his truck. There is not a thread of credible evidence to disprove what Zimmerman said.

Actually there is. A time distance analysis of the dispatcher call based on where Zimmerman parked his truck to the point of confrontation shows that there is no way Zimmerman could have arrived at the point of confrontation unless he had continued to proceed away from the truck AFTER the dispatcher advised him not to follow Martin. The dispatcher heard Zimmerman exit the truck and heard the change in voice as Zimmerman changed from speaking in the truck to walking/running outside the truck and immediately question Zimmerman.

Then of course there was Zimmerman in the reenactment video the next morning were he even says he moved away from the truck.

So both time/distance analysis showed he moved away and he said he moved away.




Correct, Zimmerman claimed that Martin approached from behind that night (audio tapes). That changed the next morning to Martin approached from in front (Video Reenactment). In both cases Zimmerman claims that Martin challenged him.

However the audio witness claims that it was the male voice she heard on the phone that challenged Martin, not the other way around. Zimmerman, when he made the statements to police that night and did the reenactment the next day didn't know that Martin was on the phone at the time that Zimmerman makes claims about Martins actions.



The forensic evidence ONLY shows that the muzzle of the gun was in close proximity to Martin's hoodie, it does not conclusively prove that Martin was on top. As a matter of fact a forensic examination actually casts doubt as to that situation and at least one eye witness report says that the person on top at the time the gun was fired rose and moved into the light and that person was Zimmerman.

Now as to the forensic evidence, I wouldn't be surprised if the state has medical, ballistic and forensic experts testify as to a couple of things:

1. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman "beating him", and as Zimmerman claims, Martin punched him (as reported in the audio tapes) over a dozen times in the face then that is not likely to be a true statement since there was only one "1/8 x 1/4 inch small abrasion on the fourth finger of the left hand" (Medical Examiner's Autopsy Report). I've been in fights before in my younger days, you don't punch someone in a boney mass like the head and end up with only one small scraping of the skin.

2. Zimmerman claims that Martin was on top of him beating his head into the ground, Martin was a little over 6 feet tall, taking into account average arm length and that Martin would have to lean over Zimmerman when straddling him to at various time punch him, cover his mouth and nose with his hands, and grab the side of his head to beat it against the ground - such actions of flexing the arms means the chest of Zimmerman and Martin were in the neighborhood of 18 inches or so between them. The travel path of the bullet was perpendicular to Martins chest right over the heart. That means that Zimmerman would have had to draw his weapon, move it from the right rear hip where his holster was, maneuver it between the bodies, cock the wrist at an unnatural angle (because of the relationship of Martin being at a different angle with respect to Zimmerman) and fire. A more natural movement of the arm/elbow rotation in such a draw and fire scenario would have been for the gun to be placed more to the side of the chest with a upward trajectory.

3. Clearly there was a struggle between Zimmerman and Martin and Martin got a least one good shoot into Zimmerman's face causing the extensive nose bleed in the photo. Zimmerman also claims that Martin placed his hands over Zimmerman's nose and mouth. A close, external examination of the body is standard procedure for an autopsy, yet the ME makes no mention of any of Zimmerman's blood on Martin's hands as would be expected if the two conditions were as Zimmerman said (he was bleeding and Martin placed his hands in the blood). In addition forensic analysis returned no Zimmerman DNA from Martin's hands or from the tests conducted on the cuffs of the sweatshirt Martin was wearing. Yet if Martin was putting his hands over Zimmerman's nose and mouth as Zimmerman claimed, there would have been blood.

4. Forensic analysis of both Martin's clothing and Zimmerman's clothing was conducted by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. Zimmerman claims the firearm was discharged between the two chest of the struggling individuals on the ground and that he was below Martin. There of course was GSR (Gun Shot Residue) on Martins clothes, but there was none on Zimmerman's cloths (neither the chest of his jacket nor the front of the sleeves) as would be expected for the discharge of a firearm in such a close space (between the chests). There would have been GSR blowing back from Martins chest, there would have been GSR expelled out the ejection port, and unburned gunpowder would have fallen due to gravity with Zimmerman below Martin. There was of course GSR on Zimmerman's hands but none on the sleeves (or chest). That implies that the arm of Zimmerman was extended away from the body which would not have been possible with Martin on top at the time of the shooting as Zimmerman's arm would have extended though Martin.




I'm not a "Martin Defender", however I'm not a "Zimmerman Defender" either. Zimmerman has already proven that he is willing to lie to the court if he thinks he will get away with it. What I do however is look at all the evidence to see if it contradicts or supports Zimmerman story.




I agree, it's pretty hard to shoot someone in the chest if they are running away. Of course I've never seen anyone claim that Zimmerman shot Martin while Martin had turned and ran.




Now you are making an assumption with incomplete or no evidence. There is no doubt that Martin and Zimmerman were in a struggle, yet you are assuming that Martin attacked Zimmerman, it could have very well been the other way around and that Zimmerman "attacked" Martin and the statement of the audio witness contradicts Zimmerman's version of who confronted who.

Martin walked away once and Zimmerman followed in his truck, then Martin ran away and Zimmerman followed on foot - if Martin attempted to leave the third time and Zimmerman then grabbed him, then Martin was defending himself. Which under Florida self-defense and Stand Your Ground laws he had a perfect right to do.

(Not saying there is proof that Zimmerman grabbed Martin, just saying that just because Zimmerman said Martin punched him first does not also make that true either.)




And neither is walking through a neighborhood when you are a guest of a resident of that neighborhood a crime either.



Zimmerman's actions were not justified if Zimmerman is the one that initiated hostilities, neither legally or morally.




Of course Zimmerman defended himself from his perspective during the struggle, but this is not an "instant" in time incident. Zimmerman took direct action to start the events of that evening including the pursuit of Martin after Martin had fled the area on a dark and rainy night. From Martin's perspective he did not now who this individual was, there was no indication (and Zimmerman has not said at this point) that he called out and identified himself as Neighborhood Watch. From Martin's perspective there was this weird guy pursuing him that he'd tried to get away from through two separate actions and here he was again approaching and confronting him (as per the audio witness).

My analysis: Martin was a hot-head who did not like anyone looking at him the wrong way.

From the dispatcher call it is clear that Martin "the hot-head" had tried to evade Zimmerman twice. Once by walking away from Zimmerman's truck when Zimmerman stopped near the clubhouse and a second time by running away after Zimmerman had followed him down Twin Trees Lane.

The "hot head" appears to have been Zimmerman interjecting himself in a police matter in direct violation of the training that Neighborhood Watch personnel are given. We are told to observe and report, NOT to attempt to intercede in the event - that is the job of the police.

He resented a White man observing him and decided to teach that White man a lesson. Martin, the NO_LIMIT_NIGGA (Martin's Facebook screen name), sucker-punched Zimmerman, and then straddled him pounding him around the head and shoulders. Zimmerman had no choice but to use deadly force and he did. Zimmerman did not start the fight, Martin did. The NO_LIMIT_NIGGA found out - too late, unfortunately - that there indeed are limits.

And to provide a contrast to an obviously biased evaluation in support of Zimmerman lets turn it around in the other direction.

"George Zimmerman resentful of black people walking through his neighborhood and decided to take the law into his own hands. He called the police for no other reason then this black kid was on his turf. Zimmerman, DATNiggyTB (Zimmerman's MySpace screen name), then chased this kid down grabbing him so he didn't get away like the other black kids a few months before. Which isn't surprising considering that Zimmerman was arrested for assaulting a police officer, broke the leg of a woman while he was a bouncer, and received a restraining order for domestic violence. But the kid struggled so Zimmerman shot him. Now Zimmerman is learning there are limits to what a gun toting vigilante can get away with."​

Now, is that stupid? Sure it is. But see how that works from the other perspective?


>>>>

The prosecution will not go into any speculation of the fight with the Medical Examiner. They have to have 100% concrete proof that Martin was being attacked by Zimmerman to offer anything on the fight. If they do not and go into it they are screwing themselves and created the doubt themselves. Maybe, could have, might have been has been explained by me in great detail before. Prosecutors never do that. Defense lawyers offer that as the burden of proof is on the prosecution 100% and the defense has to prove nothing.

Zimmerman IS NOT being charged for disobeying a police command. So why do you keep bringing up this "he was told not to pursue by the dispatcher" which is totally false? "You do not need to do that" is no command. And I doubt they can mention that in any way as that is prejudicial to the jury as he is not charged with it as far as I know. You can not say "he was told not to do something" out of thin air unless there was a direct order from a police official and that is not the case. So that is out of the equation.

All your talk of "took direct action" and "from Martin's perspective" is all speculation. Now I happen to agree with you on many issues, not all of them, but speculation is not allowed at trial by any witness the prosecution puts up and none of them can testify in any way "Well, if it happened this way, if Martin had done this as it appeared it may have, since Zimmerman had pursued and probably did not identify himself" none of that is allowed as all the forensic evidence introduced is given as it is, as it lays. The determiner of fact is the jury as they are the ones that determine the facts.

 

[jtpr312]

The community is still private property, ie private roads. There is more than one unit to a building, ie grass between buildings is communal property.
And a kid cutting between houses, which probably happens often, completely warrants a deranged man following him and shooting him.

You're just ignorant aren't you? Let me say it slowly for you. e v e n i n a p r i v a t e g a t e d c o m m u n i t y t h e r e a r e P U B L I C U S E w a l k w a y s t h a t
A L L r e s i d e n t s c a n u s e , and there are P R I V A T E portions of the community like your yards and the areas between your house and your neighbor's house. As for the rest of your crap, that's all it is, crap. Here is a fact son, statistics show that a large portion of crimes are committed by young black males, so when you see a young black male, wearing a hoodie, creeping between house and through yards, anyone with half a brain may get suspicious. As for Zimmerman being deranged, I have heard of no evidence that he was ever diagnosed with any type of mental disorder, which in the state of Fla would disqualify him from buying and/or carrying a handgun, he was well within his rights to follow the suspicious looking young black male and if said young black male would have gone on about his business and gone home, instead of cutting back and attacking Zimmerman, he'd be alive today.

 

[Amelia]

Actually no, you're wrong. Even in a gated community there are public, meaning ALL residents can use them, thoroughfares, and there is PRIVATE property, meaning the grass between the homes, and the front and back yards. The green between the homes in NOT a public thoroughfare, nor is your backyard and if he left the public use portions and cut between homes, or cut through back yards, as has been alleged, he most certainly was tresspassing.

Sure bud.
He deserved be shot then.

He deserved to be shot because he acted like a typical n&**^r and attacked what he thought was a fat, helpless, out of shape white dude. Surprise, the dude had a gun. Screw trayvon, he was a thug and he got what he asked for.

We don't need jerks like you explaining the details of this case. When you talk like that you're just handing the bleeding hearts an excuse to ignore the facts of the case and assume that Zimmerman was racist like you.