CDZ Zuckerberg Calls for a Universal Basic Income

[Cellblock2429]

/----/ And where does a UBI program get its money?

see post #284

/——/ I cant see post numbers on my iPhone. It would have killed you to just answer my question?

 

[Cellblock2429]

Another problem with Basic is the inflation. Look how Social Security payments are constantly going up: there would be continual agitation to raise the amount of Basic. If there is bad inflation in the economy, that would again be unsustainable for such a program.

/----/ How many nations have thrived on paying people to sit home and do nothing?

None have solved simple poverty to date. Next question.[/QUOTE
/——/ hard work, education and smart money management solves poverty 100% of the time.

 

[JimBowie1958]

/----/ And where does a UBI program get its money?

see post #284

/——/ I cant see post numbers on my iPhone. It would have killed you to just answer my question?

The mods get onto you if you repeat posts, so they say to just reference the post by number, but I can cut and paste it here for you.

So, fewer jobs means less revenue to pay for UBI, right? I just don't see how the numbers add up, $40 grand a year for every adult?

OK, this is off the cuff calculation, but here goes.

1.Costs of labor for corporations today:
How Much of Gross Revenue Should Go to Payroll?

Payroll is the total amount a business pays out for labor, including bonuses, benefits and owner draws. For some businesses, like highly automated production facilities, labor is a relatively small percentage of the costs of producing the product. But for other labor-intensive businesses, like restaurants and theme parks, labor costs are a much greater percentage of costs, ranging up to 20 to 40 percent. Payroll costs average more than 60 percent of total expenses in the trucking industry.​

So for percentage of corporate budget as an average, lets just use 25% for an easy number and it is in the range of these costs for labor, and a bit on the low side.

2. Corporate gross profit, nationally is around $7.5 trillion, as they are on average paying a 17% tax rate after deductions, and paid in around $1.74 trillion, this puts all corporate profit at $10.5 trillion.

3. Percentage of total costs vrs profit for average company in US is 7.5%. So total operation budget for US corporations is around $130 trillion, of which 25% is labor cost for our case example here.

4. Total cost of labor in our corporations then would be about $130 trillion x 0.25 = $42 trillion saved labor costs once we are 100% robotic. This brings total corporate profits to $52 trillion annually, way up from $10 trillion.

So if we had a robotics tax that replaced the lost federal/state/municipal taxes, at a 33% tax rate, that would bring in $14 trillion in government revenues to pay for the UBI, or $39,000 per man woman and child in the USA at a population of 360 million.

You think that could work?

$39,000/ person while corporate profits are still up by $38 trillion nationally?

 

[JimBowie1958]

/——/ hard work, education and smart money management solves poverty 100% of the time.

Not 100% of the time, but most of the time, sure.

Sometimes people cannot get employment due to handicaps, antisocial personalities, etc.

 

[Cellblock2429]

/----/ And where does a UBI program get its money?

see post #284

/——/ I cant see post numbers on my iPhone. It would have killed you to just answer my question?

The mods get onto you if you repeat posts, so they say to just reference the post by number, but I can cut and paste it here for you.

So, fewer jobs means less revenue to pay for UBI, right? I just don't see how the numbers add up, $40 grand a year for every adult?

OK, this is off the cuff calculation, but here goes.

1.Costs of labor for corporations today:
How Much of Gross Revenue Should Go to Payroll?

Payroll is the total amount a business pays out for labor, including bonuses, benefits and owner draws. For some businesses, like highly automated production facilities, labor is a relatively small percentage of the costs of producing the product. But for other labor-intensive businesses, like restaurants and theme parks, labor costs are a much greater percentage of costs, ranging up to 20 to 40 percent. Payroll costs average more than 60 percent of total expenses in the trucking industry.​

So for percentage of corporate budget as an average, lets just use 25% for an easy number and it is in the range of these costs for labor, and a bit on the low side.

2. Corporate gross profit, nationally is around $7.5 trillion, as they are on average paying a 17% tax rate after deductions, and paid in around $1.74 trillion, this puts all corporate profit at $10.5 trillion.

3. Percentage of total costs vrs profit for average company in US is 7.5%. So total operation budget for US corporations is around $130 trillion, of which 25% is labor cost for our case example here.

4. Total cost of labor in our corporations then would be about $130 trillion x 0.25 = $42 trillion saved labor costs once we are 100% robotic. This brings total corporate profits to $52 trillion annually, way up from $10 trillion.

So if we had a robotics tax that replaced the lost federal/state/municipal taxes, at a 33% tax rate, that would bring in $14 trillion in government revenues to pay for the UBI, or $39,000 per man woman and child in the USA at a population of 360 million.

You think that could work?

$39,000/ person while corporate profits are still up by $38 trillion nationally?

/——/ The robot tax will be passed on to the consumers like all other taxes making the products too expensive to buy. Duhhhhhhh

 

[Cellblock2429]

/——/ hard work, education and smart money management solves poverty 100% of the time.

Not 100% of the time, but most of the time, sure.

Sometimes people cannot get employment due to handicaps, antisocial personalities, etc.

/——-/ we’re not talking about those who cannot work because of illness or disability. I didn’t think that was necessary to point out.

 

[JimBowie1958]

/——/ The robot tax will be passed on to the consumers like all other taxes making the products too expensive to buy. Duhhhhhhh

The robot tax will be only one third of what was once the prior human labor cost, so no, it will actually make the products cheaper.

Do you actually read then think about what people post in response to you?

 

[JimBowie1958]

/——-/ we’re not talking about those who cannot work because of illness or disability. I didn’t think that was necessary to point out.

Why?

You dont think disabled people lose their homes and jobs?

I can tell you through personal experience that they can and do.

 

[danielpalos]

end the capital gains preference; Hard Work or Nothing.

/——-/ capital gains is double taxation

ordinary income.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So, fewer jobs means less revenue to pay for UBI, right? I just don't see how the numbers add up, $40 grand a year for every adult?

OK, this is off the cuff calculation, but here goes.

1.Costs of labor for corporations today:
How Much of Gross Revenue Should Go to Payroll?

Payroll is the total amount a business pays out for labor, including bonuses, benefits and owner draws. For some businesses, like highly automated production facilities, labor is a relatively small percentage of the costs of producing the product. But for other labor-intensive businesses, like restaurants and theme parks, labor costs are a much greater percentage of costs, ranging up to 20 to 40 percent. Payroll costs average more than 60 percent of total expenses in the trucking industry.​

So for percentage of corporate budget as an average, lets just use 25% for an easy number and it is in the range of these costs for labor, and a bit on the low side.

2. Corporate gross profit, nationally is around $7.5 trillion, as they are on average paying a 17% tax rate after deductions, and paid in around $1.74 trillion, this puts all corporate profit at $10.5 trillion.

3. Percentage of total costs vrs profit for average company in US is 7.5%. So total operation budget for US corporations is around $130 trillion, of which 25% is labor cost for our case example here.

4. Total cost of labor in our corporations then would be about $130 trillion x 0.25 = $42 trillion saved labor costs once we are 100% robotic. This brings total corporate profits to $52 trillion annually, way up from $10 trillion.

So if we had a robotics tax that replaced the lost federal/state/municipal taxes, at a 33% tax rate, that would bring in $14 trillion in government revenues to pay for the UBI, or $39,000 per man woman and child in the USA at a population of 360 million.

You think that could work?

$39,000/ person while corporate profits are still up by $38 trillion nationally?

Wow! So much bad math.

Corporate gross profit, nationally is around $7.5 trillion, as they are on average paying a 17% tax rate after deductions, and paid in around $1.74 trillion, this puts all corporate profit at $10.5 trillion.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

$1.74 trillion is corporate profits. Why would you divide corporate profits by the tax rate?

$130 trillion x 0.25 = $42 trillion saved labor

Ignoring your garbage "operation budget" number ($130 trillion), 130 x .25 is 32.5 not 42

This brings total corporate profits to $52 trillion annually,

OMG! Just stop.

You think that could work?

No. Your really bad, godawful math couldn't work.

For real numbers, try the following source.

U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)

 

[danielpalos]

Another problem with Basic is the inflation. Look how Social Security payments are constantly going up: there would be continual agitation to raise the amount of Basic. If there is bad inflation in the economy, that would again be unsustainable for such a program.

/----/ How many nations have thrived on paying people to sit home and do nothing?

None have solved simple poverty to date. Next question.[/QUOTE
/——/ hard work, education and smart money management solves poverty 100% of the time.

dude; corporate welfare recipients could even afford to hire entire departments to help them conform to rational choice theory or fill out corporate welfare forms in triplicate, as necessary.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Another problem with Basic is the inflation. Look how Social Security payments are constantly going up: there would be continual agitation to raise the amount of Basic. If there is bad inflation in the economy, that would again be unsustainable for such a program.

/----/ How many nations have thrived on paying people to sit home and do nothing?

None have solved simple poverty to date. Next question.[/QUOTE
/——/ hard work, education and smart money management solves poverty 100% of the time.

dude; corporate welfare recipients could even afford to hire entire departments to help them conform to rational choice theory or fill out corporate welfare forms in triplicate, as necessary.

/——-/ Ahhhhh Communist make work projects where people pretend to work and the gubmint pretends to pay them.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Corporate gross profit, nationally is around $7.5 trillion, as they are on average paying a 17% tax rate after deductions, and paid in around $1.74 trillion, this puts all corporate profit at $10.5 trillion.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

$1.74 trillion is corporate profits. Why would you divide corporate profits by the tax rate?

Actually that is profit for one quarter. "Corporate profits in the United States increased by USD 94.4 billion, or 5.7 percent, to USD 1,738.2 billion in the third quarter of 2017,.... "

Now I know you are a far-right libertarian pr-corproation 'advocate' to put it nicely, but for the sake of lurkers and others I am going to respond to your very rude and hostile post.

As I said it was 'off the cuff' calculations and I made a mistake with the link. The total amount of corporate taxes paid by corporations is not well presented anywhere, typically, in a clear manner, as total corporate taxes are not just corporate 'income tax' but also includes excise taxes and half that of the total paid to Social Security and so forth. The total came to around 1.2 trillion paid into the FEDERAL government, and state and local taxes brought it to around $1.7 trillion nationally at all levels of government and for taxes of all kinds. I cant find the link anymore, but I found this chart that shows my numbers in the ball park for corporate taxes paid into the Federal government.

Now since all corporate taxes nationally average 17% of corporate taxes paid, I took the inverse to arrive at a calculated estimate of total corporate profit of all kinds, which was $10 trillion. The $1.738 trillion for one quarter is based on taxable profits, which is not all corporate profits. But even so, the $6.8 trillion is not far off my calculation for total corporate profits, both taxable and nontaxable.

$130 trillion x 0.25 = $42 trillion saved labor

Ignoring your garbage "operation budget" number ($130 trillion), 130 x .25 is 32.5 not 42

Another mistake, but even using this corrected number, my point is still valid. Corporate profits would still be a total of new profit through robotics of $32 trillion plus current profits of $10 trillion, but to low-ball this further lets use the $6.8 trillion number for a grand total of $39 trillion. A 33% robotics tax on profits gained by replacing human labor would net close to $11 trillion instead of $14 trillion. This would fund a UBI of around $33,000 per man woman or child if we use an estimated population of 330 million US citizens instead of my original 360 million..

That is still easily affordable to the corporations as they lose a little bit of their robotics windfall in order to keep the rest of the country from eating them for dinner.

This brings total corporate profits to $52 trillion annually,

OMG! Just stop.

You really cant stand data counter to your world view, can you?

You think that could work?
No. Your really bad, godawful math couldn't work.

It was not 'gawdawful' and still fairly close for working purposes as an off the cuff estimate. We dont know what the future holds, so that is all that can be done anyway.

For real numbers, try the following source.

U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)

Lol, yeah thanks, Oligarch data for Oligarch purposes, no thank you but it could be helpful in the future.

You really came across as an arrogant touchy person intolerant of disagreeing points of view.

You really should work on that.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Another problem with Basic is the inflation. Look how Social Security payments are constantly going up: there would be continual agitation to raise the amount of Basic. If there is bad inflation in the economy, that would again be unsustainable for such a program.

/----/ How many nations have thrived on paying people to sit home and do nothing?

None have solved simple poverty to date. Next question.[/QUOTE
/——/ hard work, education and smart money management solves poverty 100% of the time.

dude; corporate welfare recipients could even afford to hire entire departments to help them conform to rational choice theory or fill out corporate welfare forms in triplicate, as necessary.

/——-/ Ahhhhh Communist make work projects where people pretend to work and the gubmint pretends to pay them.

With UBI there would be no make work bullshit.

It is a basic income for everyone with no obligations whatsoever.

 

[danielpalos]

Another problem with Basic is the inflation. Look how Social Security payments are constantly going up: there would be continual agitation to raise the amount of Basic. If there is bad inflation in the economy, that would again be unsustainable for such a program.

/----/ How many nations have thrived on paying people to sit home and do nothing?

None have solved simple poverty to date. Next question.[/QUOTE
/——/ hard work, education and smart money management solves poverty 100% of the time.

dude; corporate welfare recipients could even afford to hire entire departments to help them conform to rational choice theory or fill out corporate welfare forms in triplicate, as necessary.

/——-/ Ahhhhh Communist make work projects where people pretend to work and the gubmint pretends to pay them.

we have actual infrastructure that needs to be upgraded.

 

[Cellblock2429]

/----/ How many nations have thrived on paying people to sit home and do nothing?

None have solved simple poverty to date. Next question.[/QUOTE
/——/ hard work, education and smart money management solves poverty 100% of the time.

dude; corporate welfare recipients could even afford to hire entire departments to help them conform to rational choice theory or fill out corporate welfare forms in triplicate, as necessary.

/——-/ Ahhhhh Communist make work projects where people pretend to work and the gubmint pretends to pay them.

we have actual infrastructure that needs to be upgraded.

/——/ I thought Obozo fixed all the shovel ready jobs with his trillion dollar stimulus

 

[Cellblock2429]

/----/ How many nations have thrived on paying people to sit home and do nothing?

None have solved simple poverty to date. Next question.[/QUOTE
/——/ hard work, education and smart money management solves poverty 100% of the time.

dude; corporate welfare recipients could even afford to hire entire departments to help them conform to rational choice theory or fill out corporate welfare forms in triplicate, as necessary.

/——-/ Ahhhhh Communist make work projects where people pretend to work and the gubmint pretends to pay them.

With UBI there would be no make work bullshit.

It is a basic income for everyone with no obligations whatsoever.

/——-/ Oh you mean put America on welfare. Why didn’t you say so?

 

[JimBowie1958]

/——-/ Oh you mean put America on welfare. Why didn’t you say so?

It is not welfare as it is not needs based, it is simply a guarranteed income for everybody.

 

[Cellblock2429]

/——-/ Oh you mean put America on welfare. Why didn’t you say so?

It is not welfare as it is not needs based, it is simply a guarranteed income for everybody.

/——-/ Yup another gubmint handout aka welfare.

 

[JimBowie1958]

It is not welfare as it is not needs based, it is simply a guarranteed income for everybody.

/——-/ Yup another gubmint handout aka welfare.

So you think all government checks to people is welfare? Is Social Security welfare to you, or military retirement benefits? lol

Welfare is needs based government payouts that is not earned or a benefit for being a citizen, as it is based on NEED, and nothing else other than citizenship.

Why do you have a problem using the English language?