1/3rd of Women in US Military Raped, 90 Percent Reported Sexual Harassment

[CurveLight]

I have never participated in a thread here where it didn't evolve into childish crude name-calling. People complain about forums that have filters and moderation, this site is prime example of why those boundaries are set in place.

It's a double edged sword. The politics section of this site really sucks because it is overrun with people who are not here to discuss and learn. When you prove they are wrong they suddenly disappear from the thread or close their eyes and just try to shout away the facts. I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to childish remarks but I have no problem addressing facts nor admitting mistakes. Sites that are over moderated become so damn obsessed with rules it makes the purpose of the board moot, but you can find better discussions than there are on here. So I guess it's all a compromise.

 

[Kalam]

Was I forming policy? I just know how a lot of men act after various wars and skirmishes. I seriously doubt they were trained to...uh oh you don't think they were trained to smell the pansys and weep as the dew decorated the rain forests, do you?

You are of the opinion that women should not serve in battle. I hope you'll excuse me for expecting a bit more substance in your defense.

Kalam, that's NOT what your video said.

Don't be purposefully dense. When you hear veterans talk about killing "japs" or "gooks" or "hajis", do you assume that they're referring to combatants or to every non-American they encountered?

I'm just going by what YOU posted...

Let's try to work our way through this again. Were you under the impression that there were roving bands of Muslim women in the Caucasus that shoot every non-Muslim they happen to encounter? A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

and it doesn't look good for the unbelievers...

Such is the punishment for those who persecute and slaughter Muslims.

because Amir Khattab might have written that,

But clearly, you know the true motivations of the kavkaz mujahideen in spite of being previously unaware that the conflict even existed. Is that right?

but I think the goal is to be akin to Mohammed, isn't it?

And we know what Mohammed did.

One of us does.

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children. - Sahih Bukhari, Jihad, no. 258 (also reported by Muslim)

Narrated Anas ibn Malik: The Prophet said, "Go in Allah's name, trusting in Allah and adhering to the religion of Allah's Apostle. Do not kill a decrepit old man, or a young infant, or a child, or a woman. Do not be dishonest about plunder, but collect your earnings; do right and act well, for Allah loves those who do good." - Sunan Abu Dawud, Jihad, no. 2608​

The advice of Abu Bakr:

"I advise you ten things: Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the plunder, and do not be cowardly." - Malik's Muwatta, no. 2110​

What does all of this remind me of? Oh, yeah.

"Our targets are the Russian occupation forces, their military bases, command headquarters and also their local collaborators who pursue and kill peaceful Muslims. Civil objects and innocent civilians are not our targets." - Dokka Khamatovich Umarov (Emir)

"[Shaykh Abdul-Halim Sadulayev (President, KIA 2006)] also said that while the resistance will continue to try to inflict the maximum damage on the Russian armed forces and military targets, they will not attack peaceful civilians, women, and children, and will not take them hostage." - RFE

"We would not like to be akin to those who kill sleeping civilians with bombs and shells." - Amir Khattab (commander of foreign mujahideen, KIA 2002)​

 

[Navy1960]

The report Aside, here are some real numbers,

In 2004 the US Military had a total of had a total of 2374 REPORTED cases of secual assault Commanders took punititve action against 274 offenders in completed investigations , 79 Court Martials, 91 Non-Judicial punishments, 104 adverse actions and discharges. As of Sept. 30th 2004 there were 212,000 active duty women in the military, so the number is hardly 30% but it is still a problem and those that do this sort of nonsense HAVE NO PLACE in the US Military. I can think of not one single person that I know of that would have put up with anything remotly close to this once it came to light. The key is to provide the mechanisms in which those within the military can report this, and believe it or not the military has come a long way in that area and is still going in a postitive direction the report from the OP's article not withstanding. Anyone who suggests that the atmosphere within the military would condone this sort of nonsense does not understand that this behavior runs contrary to good unit cohesion and discipline which is vital in combat and the carrying out of the missions tasked to the military.

http://www.sapr.mil/contents/references/2005 RTC Sexual Assaults.pdf

As for those who would suggest that women have no place in the military , I might suggest that at least from the aviation standpoint that argument does not hold, because at this very moment, you have women that are currently flying tanker missions, airlift missions, and yes Close Air Support missions in several different aircraft types from C-17's to F-18's and they are doing so with honor, and their accomplishments reflect the highest tradtions of service as they do for all the people that are currently doing the hard work of defending this nation.

 

[AllieBaba]

YOu obviously never met any strong women, and I know many women who could kick many men's ass. And as a women who played sports most of her life, I can tell you I am more aggressive and competitive than some men. Go watch a WNBA game or even women's college basketball. I played co ed bball for a few years and was never cloths lined by a guy, when I played high school that was the secret weapon for some girls. You really need to get your head out of the sand and realize women are not all susie homemaker anymore.

Women still aren't as strong as men, overall, and no matter how fit a woman is, there is always a man who can overpower her.

just like a man.

I have no idea what you're trying to say there. If you're trying to say I'm a man, you're wrong. If you're trying to say there's always a man stronger than the next guy, you're right.

 

[CurveLight]

The report Aside, here are some real numbers,

In 2004 the US Military had a total of had a total of 2374 REPORTED cases of secual assault Commanders took punititve action against 274 offenders in completed investigations , 79 Court Martials, 91 Non-Judicial punishments, 104 adverse actions and discharges. As of Sept. 30th 2004 there were 212,000 active duty women in the military, so the number is hardly 30% but it is still a problem and those that do this sort of nonsense HAVE NO PLACE in the US Military. I can think of not one single person that I know of that would have put up with anything remotly close to this once it came to light. The key is to provide the mechanisms in which those within the military can report this, and believe it or not the military has come a long way in that area and is still going in a postitive direction the report from the OP's article not withstanding. Anyone who suggests that the atmosphere within the military would condone this sort of nonsense does not understand that this behavior runs contrary to good unit cohesion and discipline which is vital in combat and the carrying out of the missions tasked to the military.

http://www.sapr.mil/contents/references/2005 RTC Sexual Assaults.pdf

As for those who would suggest that women have no place in the military , I might suggest that at least from the aviation standpoint that argument does not hold, because at this very moment, you have women that are currently flying tanker missions, airlift missions, and yes Close Air Support missions in several different aircraft types from C-17's to F-18's and they are doing so with honor, and their accomplishments reflect the highest tradtions of service as they do for all the people that are currently doing the hard work of defending this nation.

Great job on affirming the honorable service given by females and while I understand the desire to resist seeing our military being guilty of endless sexual crimes it is an ugly reality. The specific numbers are not the centerpiece. What is at stake is acknowledging the assaults happen way way way way too damn much.

 

[bodecea]

The report Aside, here are some real numbers,

In 2004 the US Military had a total of had a total of 2374 REPORTED cases of secual assault Commanders took punititve action against 274 offenders in completed investigations , 79 Court Martials, 91 Non-Judicial punishments, 104 adverse actions and discharges. As of Sept. 30th 2004 there were 212,000 active duty women in the military, so the number is hardly 30% but it is still a problem and those that do this sort of nonsense HAVE NO PLACE in the US Military. I can think of not one single person that I know of that would have put up with anything remotly close to this once it came to light. The key is to provide the mechanisms in which those within the military can report this, and believe it or not the military has come a long way in that area and is still going in a postitive direction the report from the OP's article not withstanding. Anyone who suggests that the atmosphere within the military would condone this sort of nonsense does not understand that this behavior runs contrary to good unit cohesion and discipline which is vital in combat and the carrying out of the missions tasked to the military.

http://www.sapr.mil/contents/references/2005 RTC Sexual Assaults.pdf

As for those who would suggest that women have no place in the military , I might suggest that at least from the aviation standpoint that argument does not hold, because at this very moment, you have women that are currently flying tanker missions, airlift missions, and yes Close Air Support missions in several different aircraft types from C-17's to F-18's and they are doing so with honor, and their accomplishments reflect the highest tradtions of service as they do for all the people that are currently doing the hard work of defending this nation.

Thank you for that. But as to your last point, it wasn't easy getting that respect. It was a long hard haul in the 70s and 80s to get that respect. I have some pretty sad stories in that regard....maybe someday we can swap sea stories.

 

[CMike]

Women should not be in combat.

If ever there is a great example of why this is so it's Israel.

Israel is a tiny country under constant threat of extintion by it's arab neighbors.

Yet, they never allowed women in combat. It doesn't work.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

According to a Military Rape Crisis study, over 90% of all rape survivors are involuntarily discharge from service.

Military Rape Crisis Center - Legal

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Lies, Damned Lies, and Military Sexual Assault Statistics : Smart Girl Nation

The statistic comes from a study of PTSD sufferers published in Military Medicine in May 2004. The research sample was not, as Benedict would have you believe, culled from a general pool of female veterans or current servicewomen. Instead, participants were selected from “an eligible pool of 4,918 representatively sampled veterans seeking VA disability benefits for PTSD.”

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Is this any higher than in the general population? I don't think so.

You think 30% of women in the United States have been raped?

• 1 in 3 women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime. • 1 in 6 women report rape or attempted rape at sometime in her life. • 1 in 4 girls will be sexually assaulted by the age of 18. • 1 in 6 boys will be sexually assaulted by the age of 18. • Approximately 68% of rape victims knew their assailant. 28% of victims are raped by husbands or boyfriends, 35% by acquaintances, and 5% by other relatives. 29% of female victims reported that the offender was a stranger. (US. Dept of Justice) • 73% of those forced to have sex fail to recognize their experience as rape.

Sexual Assault - Statistics

 

[bodecea]

Women should not be in combat.

If ever there is a great example of why this is so it's Israel.

Israel is a tiny country under constant threat of extintion by it's arab neighbors.

Yet, they never allowed women in combat. It doesn't work.

Actually that is not true. Women have been in combat in the Israel Army. They pulled them out in most cases because they found that the Arabs (during wars) were less likely to surrender to women troops.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces

I stand corrected, they still use them in a combat front line capacity.

 

[CMike]

According to a Military Rape Crisis study, over 90% of all rape survivors are involuntarily discharge from service.

Military Rape Crisis Center - Legal

Your sources are from non credible sites. Therefore, they are meaningless.

 

[CMike]

Women should not be in combat.

If ever there is a great example of why this is so it's Israel.

Israel is a tiny country under constant threat of extintion by it's arab neighbors.

Yet, they never allowed women in combat. It doesn't work.

Actually that is not true. Women have been in combat in the Israel Army. They pulled them out in most cases because they found that the Arabs (during wars) were less likely to surrender to women troops.

And your proof of this is?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I've always said women don't belong in the military for a TON of reasons. A lot of men argue with that but I don't care, police, firemen, troops...If I call the police because my house is being broken into by a huge thug and a woman shows up, I'm gonna be ticked off. I can shoot straight too, what I need is that aggressive male mind to take control of the situation with the shoulders to back it up. Same thing on the battleground. And I don't think the scent of Chanel #5 in a life or death situation is going to help matters.

This is not to say that any woman in the military is at fault. Far from it. But it's still a BAD PLAN. I've never been in the military but (forgive me if I'm wrong) but it seems like the military is geared toward football locker-room mentality...women probably wouldn't fare well there either

YOu obviously never met any strong women, and I know many women who could kick many men's ass. And as a women who played sports most of her life, I can tell you I am more aggressive and competitive than some men. Go watch a WNBA game or even women's college basketball. I played co ed bball for a few years and was never cloths lined by a guy, when I played high school that was the secret weapon for some girls. You really need to get your head out of the sand and realize women are not all susie homemaker anymore.

Women still aren't as strong as men, overall, and no matter how fit a woman is, there is always a man who can overpower her.

And for every big man there's someone smaller who can land a hip toss into an armbar

 

[geauxtohell]

Women should not be in combat.

If ever there is a great example of why this is so it's Israel.

Israel is a tiny country under constant threat of extintion by it's arab neighbors.

Yet, they never allowed women in combat. It doesn't work.

Women are in combat, doofus. In case you haven't been paying attention, the nature of warfare has changed a tad in the past 40 years.

There are no "front lines" and there are no safe jobs. If you are going to allow women into the military, specifically the Army and Marines, then women are going to be in combat. It's not like the bad guys give a fuck about our rules and regulations.

Maybe you could go tell the young specialist who received a silver star for her valorous action under hostile enemy fire that "it doesn't work".

The one point we would probably agree on is getting rid of the separate standards for women and men.

If women are in the military, they are in combat, they should be able to meet all the same standards as an Infantryman.

The same should go for age. I knew too many 45 year old infantry LTC's who could max the PT test at the 18-21 year old bracket.

 

[CMike]

Women in Combat: Why Rush to Judgment?

Israel

The only reliable record of women in combat is provided by Israel, a nation whose policy is widely misunderstood. The popular conception is that Israeli women fight alongside men as equals. The truth is that although Israel drafts both women and men for military service, Israel has excluded women from combat units since 1950.

To be sure, female soldiers fought alongside male colleagues in Israel's War of Liberation, which ended in 1948. Because of the problems that this created, Israeli women never again were sent into battle. Explains military historian Edward N. Luttwak of the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, who has written a book about the Israeli military: "Men moved to protect the women members of the unit instead of carrying out the mission of the unit." (Telephone interview, June 10, 1991.) Luttwak adds that women are integrated into the Israeli military at many levels, and conduct most of the training. Women also serve in the Mossad, Israel's elite counter-terrorist force. But women are excluded, Luttwak notes, from infantry and other combat positions based on "the pragmatic experience of 40 years." (Ibid.)

The Israelis also bar women from combat for cultural reasons. After the War of Liberation, Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion said that placing women in combat violated the Jewish concept of womanhood and women's status as mothers. (Interview with senior Israeli military official, June 12, 1991, Washington, D.C.) At a Washington briefing this month, a senior Israeli military official said that even tentative experiments with women serving aboard missile-defense boats had failed miserably. Furthermore, he said, because of its cultural heritage, Israel "is not ready to pay the price of a woman being held hostage, a woman returning crippled." (Ibid.)


In hearings before the Military Personnel Subcommittee of the House Committee on Armed Services in November 1979, Brigadier General Andrew J. Gatsis, USA (retired), testified that Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Dayan told him that during Israel's War of Liberation, "we had a constant fear of what the Arabs would do to our women if they captured them." The men, Dayan told Gatsis, "could not stand the psychological stress" of watching women being killed and captured. Gatsis also said that Dayan "felt that [having women in combat units] knocked down their combat effectiveness." ("Women in the Military," hearings before the Military Personnel Subcommittee of the Committee on Armed Services, House of Representatives, November 13-16, 1979 and February 11, 1980, pp. 281-282.)

 

[CMike]

Women should not be in combat.

If ever there is a great example of why this is so it's Israel.

Israel is a tiny country under constant threat of extintion by it's arab neighbors.

Yet, they never allowed women in combat. It doesn't work.

Women are in combat, doofus. In case you haven't been paying attention, the nature of warfare has changed a tad in the past 40 years.

There are no "front lines" and there are no safe jobs. If you are going to allow women into the military, specifically the Army and Marines, then women are going to be in combat. It's not like the bad guys give a fuck about our rules and regulations.

Maybe you could go tell the young specialist who received a silver star for her valorous action under hostile enemy fire that "it doesn't work".

The one point we would probably agree on is getting rid of the separate standards for women and men.

If women are in the military, they are in combat, they should be able to meet all the same standards as an Infantryman.

The same should go for age. I knew too many 45 year old infantry LTC's who could max the PT test at the 18-21 year old bracket.

No. Women should not be in combat for the reasons that Israel found out.

 

[geauxtohell]

Environment needs to change?

You mean we need a 100% homosexual military?

Then we'd be Holland.

I think the terrorists would be pissed off more somehow.

That would be a great psy-op weapon. Create an all gay unit that's job was to reign hell upon the insurgency.

We could call them the "Fabulous Basterds".

 

[geauxtohell]

Women should not be in combat.

If ever there is a great example of why this is so it's Israel.

Israel is a tiny country under constant threat of extintion by it's arab neighbors.

Yet, they never allowed women in combat. It doesn't work.

Women are in combat, doofus. In case you haven't been paying attention, the nature of warfare has changed a tad in the past 40 years.

There are no "front lines" and there are no safe jobs. If you are going to allow women into the military, specifically the Army and Marines, then women are going to be in combat. It's not like the bad guys give a fuck about our rules and regulations.

Maybe you could go tell the young specialist who received a silver star for her valorous action under hostile enemy fire that "it doesn't work".

The one point we would probably agree on is getting rid of the separate standards for women and men.

If women are in the military, they are in combat, they should be able to meet all the same standards as an Infantryman.

The same should go for age. I knew too many 45 year old infantry LTC's who could max the PT test at the 18-21 year old bracket.

No. Women should not be in combat for the reasons that Israel found out.

That went over your head like a tent. My point is that women are going to be in combat whether we like it or not and regardless of our regulations. Jessica Lynch was a truck driver. Her ass landed in combat.

So either don't let women into the military so we can truly keep women out of combat or pull your head out of the sand.

 

[CMike]

I am not talking about combat support roles, I am talking about actual combat.