1 woman & her purse vs. 3 violent men...no one has a gun...poor woman...

[beagle9]

Brain, you are being deceitful again...you do not mean high capacity magazines...you want to ban the magazine that is issued with the pistol or rifle...the standard magazine...

And you have gone on in post after post saying that if only these guys had to change magazines more often then the good guys can tackle them..you have...post after post...well the Sandy Hook shooter, from that post, changed magazines multiple times....and was not tackled by anyone...

And another point from Sandy Hook...he did combat reloads...he reloaded after he only used part of the magazine...so when he reloaded there was still a live round in the chamber so if anyone charged him he could still shoot them...since he wasn't letting the gun run dry...and then reload....so your theory now requires multiple people...at the same time to know when he decides to reload, quickly organize a joint attack and tackle him...again...not going to happen...and it only happened in very rare cases compared to all other mass shootings where it took actual good guys...with 30 round magazines in AR-15s and 15 round magazines in their Glocks and M&Ps to go in and either kill the guy, or force him to commit suicide...

And the killer who did use legally mandated 10 round magazines...the Santa Barbara killer...still killed 6 people with those 10 round magazines...killers will get standard magazines illegally if they decide that is what they want, or they will just use 10 round magazines and still kill people....the only people effected by a ban on standard magazines...the law abiding people who won't use them to murder people...and who may very well need them to survive an encounter with one or more criminals...

And this most recent shooting....sorry...they are interpreting what happend and they are most likely wrong...why...the kid killed the people he wanted to kill and then his gun either malfunctioned or he had to reload....then he planned on shooting himself but the teacher surprised him....why do we know he wasn't going to continue shooting after his weapon was cleared....because he had a functioning weapon after the reload or clearing...and he didn't shoot the teacher who was at close range and empty handed....he turned the gun on himself....if he had planned on killing random students and staff, he would have killed her...

Forcing honest, law abiding citizens to give up standard magazines is wrong because it will be an actual way to ban certain types of pistols...from what I have read, when you ban the standard magazine...you make the weapon inoperable because they don't have 10 round magazines for those weapons...you then increase the burden on the companies because now they have to make magazines for police and military, and then other magazines for civilians...making current guns unusable...since most of the current laws don't allow just counting out 10 bullets...

Millions of regular people own guns and don't use them to shoot other people...you want to ban them from having standard capacity magazines....that ban which will not stop one crime, or one mass shooting...just dumb

Didn't have those problems the last time we limited mag capacity. And since we have done it before it will be easier for companies this time.

I want to slow the bad guys to save lives. Any decent person would want to. If gun owners are really good guys they should be on board.

6 children escaped while that asshole reloaded. That should be enough reason. I'd give my life to save 6 children. You won't even lower your mag cap, that says a lot.

You see this is where you keep going wrong here, where as you want the good guy's to be included in the punishment with the bad guy's. Now why is it you feel this way Brain ? If we lived in this nation the way you think we should, then we would all be enslaved by those who think we should be punished also because of the bad guy's (not taking any chances so punish us all right), because they are running along side of us in the world, just like they always have been. How about lets just find solutions to stop the bad guys in this nation, while keeping all the good guy's freedoms and liberties intact whatdaya say ?

You got a problem with that concept, the concept of keeping America free while dealing with the bad guy's all at the same time ? There are ENEMIES among us now, and sadly they are people who set all of this stuff up, but yet hide their hands when the crap hit's the fan.

 

[Brain357]

Well, since drunk drivers kill just as many people as criminals do...let's use your logic to solve that problem....

All cars should have breathalyzers that keep them from starting till you blow in a tube...and stop occasionally requiring you to re blow to restart the car...all cars... since 10,000 or more people a year are killed by drunk drivers...right...that way you save lives....more than any imaginary lives saved by a magazine ban...right? Every single car in the country should require you to blow into a tube...to test your alcohol lever before you drive...right?

6 children escaped while that asshole reloaded. That should be enough reason. I'd give my life to save 6 children. You won't even lower your mag cap, that says a lot.

Sadly, only 6...and he reloaded several times....and it didn't save any more children than that and that, only because luck was with them...since it didn't save any other children while he kept reloading the other times...right?

I want to slow the bad guys to save lives.

This didn't slow him down...or any of the other mass shooters...they were stopped by armed citizens or armed police....

End gun free school zones...allow parents and specific trained staff to carry guns...and you would likely have saved all those children...that is how you save lives...not some stupid idea that only affects people who obey the law....

Any decent person would want to.

Any decent person wouldn't want to disarm the good guys while the bad guys break the law...and get the magazines they want anyway...but that would require rational thought....

Not sure why you are talking about cars.

Yes only 6. If he had smaller mags it probably would have been more.

I've given examples where it did stop the shooter. And I've given you an example where it helped the armed person in stopping the shooter. It's a win for everyone.

Nobody is disarming the good guys. Only a gun nut would consider somebody with a 10 rd mag disarmed. That is pretty stupid. Every successful defense I have ever heard of was done with less than 10 rds! Remember the woman with the .38 revolver who defended against 3 armed criminals? Well she will still be armed!

 

[Brain357]

yeah...and technology just made your point even dumber than it already was...3D printers can make 30 round magazines...and these are just our 3D printers....imagine printers in 10-15 years and what they will be able to do...and for criminals....

3D Printers And High Capacity Magazine Bans - Business Insider

Wilson argues that the high capacity magazine ban wouldn’t just be wrong, but also impossible to enforce, as his project aims to show. Even if Defense Distributed’s original goal of printing a gun from scratch remains out of reach, the restrictions on magazine could be far more easily bypassed, he says. “[Lawmakers] are taking a giant step backward, and it makes everything we’ve talked about more practical,” says Wilson. “There’s more opportunity to demonstrate the usefulness, the consequences of our project. I can already print this magazine and show that prohibition has run up against a problem.”

So determined killers already have the means to bypass your ban...but law abiding citizens won't by pass the ban...because they follow the law...

Your argument is done...

Pretty sure you don't just hit print and a usable mag pops out. You think they print springs too? Sure.

If somebody can afford a 3D printer they aren't going to risk going to jail making magazines.

And as was proved by the shooter in CA, these guys won't go through the effort.

 

[Brain357]

And of course a 30 round magazine ban would very likely just be a major headache for cops and prosectuors...and from a liberal crap site no less...

Colorado Magazine ban bill unenforceable

Bad bills make for bad laws.

Highlights:

"HB 1224 places impossible enforcement decisions on
Colorado law enforcement. To effectively enforce HB 1224, Colorado law
enforcement would need to be able to determine: 1) whether a magazine is
“designed to be readily converted;” 2) whether a magazine was in existence prior
to the ban; and 3) whether a magazine had been in continuous possession since
the enactment of the ban."

Simply put, prosecutors would have no way of knowing weather the 30 round magazine you have is grandfathered or not, unless you tell them. A defendant pleading the 5th typically does not meet the states burden of proof.

You would stop manufacturers from flooding the market with them. That would make them rare and much less likely to be used in crime over time.

 

[beagle9]

And of course a 30 round magazine ban would very likely just be a major headache for cops and prosectuors...and from a liberal crap site no less...

Colorado Magazine ban bill unenforceable

Bad bills make for bad laws.

Highlights:

"HB 1224 places impossible enforcement decisions on
Colorado law enforcement. To effectively enforce HB 1224, Colorado law
enforcement would need to be able to determine: 1) whether a magazine is
“designed to be readily converted;” 2) whether a magazine was in existence prior
to the ban; and 3) whether a magazine had been in continuous possession since
the enactment of the ban."

Simply put, prosecutors would have no way of knowing weather the 30 round magazine you have is grandfathered or not, unless you tell them. A defendant pleading the 5th typically does not meet the states burden of proof.

You would stop manufacturers from flooding the market with them. That would make them rare and much less likely to be used in crime over time.

Again who are you wanting not to have these mag's ? The bad guy's right, so how about the good guy's, should you want them to not have what they wish to have if they can handle it ? The crazy thing is that the bleeding heart left wants all to be stripped of their freedoms and liberties in this nation, and they want to do this as so that they can take complete control and power over this nation, and yep you had better believe it too. If they didn't want this, then they would be constantly talking about how to stop the bad guy's without ever taking the good guy's and/or good gal's rights, liberties and freedoms away. Anyone figure this out yet ? I mean they set the stage up, and then they try and seize upon the outcomes as if they are the good guy's when in fact we all know what has happened here in this nation.

 

[Brain357]

And of course a 30 round magazine ban would very likely just be a major headache for cops and prosectuors...and from a liberal crap site no less...

Colorado Magazine ban bill unenforceable

Bad bills make for bad laws.

Highlights:

"HB 1224 places impossible enforcement decisions on
Colorado law enforcement. To effectively enforce HB 1224, Colorado law
enforcement would need to be able to determine: 1) whether a magazine is
“designed to be readily converted;” 2) whether a magazine was in existence prior
to the ban; and 3) whether a magazine had been in continuous possession since
the enactment of the ban."

Simply put, prosecutors would have no way of knowing weather the 30 round magazine you have is grandfathered or not, unless you tell them. A defendant pleading the 5th typically does not meet the states burden of proof.

You would stop manufacturers from flooding the market with them. That would make them rare and much less likely to be used in crime over time.

Again who are you wanting not to have these mag's ? The bad guy's right, so how about the good guy's, should you want them to not have what they wish to have if they can handle it ? The crazy thing is that the bleeding heart left wants all to be stripped of their freedoms and liberties in this nation, and they want to do this as so that they can take complete control and power over this nation, and yep you had better believe it too. If they didn't want this, then they would be constantly talking about how to stop the bad guy's without ever taking the good guy's and/or good gal's rights, liberties and freedoms away. Anyone figure this out yet ? I mean they set the stage up, and then they try and seize upon the outcomes as if they are the good guy's when in fact we all know what has happened here in this nation.

Give some real examples of good guys needing a magazine over 10 rds for defense. I've not heard of one yet. But I can give you a long list of criminals emptying big mags into innocent people. If you carry a concealed gun it holds less than 10, this wouldn't only help your good guy.

 

[2aguy]

Only a gun nut would consider somebody with a 10 rd mag disarmed.

You mean experienced firearm instructors....police officers....

I have given several examples...and videos of actual shootouts where the victim very well may have needed more than 10 rounds in their pistol...

 

[2aguy]

Here you have more than 12 shots fired by the criminals...looks like they were pretty determined to kill someone...you want to limit anyone who may be their victim to a 10 round magazine...if there is more than one shooter...say 2 that leaves them 5 shots per perp....if 3, you are down to 3 per perp. not counting misses....

See why you are wrong..

 

[Brain357]

Here you have more than 12 shots fired by the criminals...looks like they were pretty determined to kill someone...you want to limit anyone who may be their victim to a 10 round magazine...if there is more than one shooter...say 2 that leaves them 5 shots per perp....if 3, you are down to 3 per perp. not counting misses....

See why you are wrong..

Let me draw your attention again to the woman with a .38 revolver we defended against 3 armed criminals. You don't need to kill anyone for defense. Criminals don't want to be shot.

 

[Brain357]

Only a gun nut would consider somebody with a 10 rd mag disarmed.

You mean experienced firearm instructors....police officers....

I have given several examples...and videos of actual shootouts where the victim very well may have needed more than 10 rounds in their pistol...

No you have not.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Pretty sure you don't just hit print and a usable mag pops out. You think they print springs too? Sure.

If somebody can afford a 3D printer they aren't going to risk going to jail making magazines.

And as was proved by the shooter in CA, these guys won't go through the effort.

You're nuts.

I'm in California and at most rifle ranges the majority of people have 20 and 30 round magazines. No one enforces the capacity ban because it is absurdly stupid.

This is a law where if one committed a crime with a gun that had a high capacity mag, extra charges will be added. Other than that, the law will never be enforced - it is stupid and everyone, including LEO's knows it.

 

[Brain357]

Pretty sure you don't just hit print and a usable mag pops out. You think they print springs too? Sure.

If somebody can afford a 3D printer they aren't going to risk going to jail making magazines.

And as was proved by the shooter in CA, these guys won't go through the effort.

You're nuts.

I'm in California and at most rifle ranges the majority of people have 20 and 30 round magazines. No one enforces the capacity ban because it is absurdly stupid.

This is a law where if one committed a crime with a gun that had a high capacity mag, extra charges will be added. Other than that, the law will never be enforced - it is stupid and everyone, including LEO's knows it.

Funny how that mass shooter didn't use hi cap mags. Seems like the law works.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Funny how that mass shooter didn't use hi cap mags. Seems like the law works.

It works by merit of it not stopping a shooting?

You have a strange definition of "works."

 

[2aguy]

Let me draw your attention again to the woman with a .38 revolver we defended against 3 armed criminals. You don't need to kill anyone for defense. Criminals don't want to be shot.

All criminals will break off their attack immediately...like the guys in the video of the bar shoot out....where they kept shooting and shooting...if you had a 5 shot .38 you would run out of ammo...quickly...

What do you do Brain if the criminals decide they want to kill you....if there are 3-4 of them and they are armed and shooting...with a 5 shot .38 you have just over 1 bullet per criminal...if you hit...so now tell me Brain...do you want just 5 or 10 rounds in your gun?

 

[Brain357]

Let me draw your attention again to the woman with a .38 revolver we defended against 3 armed criminals. You don't need to kill anyone for defense. Criminals don't want to be shot.

All criminals will break off their attack immediately...like the guys in the video of the bar shoot out....where they kept shooting and shooting...if you had a 5 shot .38 you would run out of ammo...quickly...

What do you do Brain if the criminals decide they want to kill you....if there are 3-4 of them and they are armed and shooting...with a 5 shot .38 you have just over 1 bullet per criminal...if you hit...so now tell me Brain...do you want just 5 or 10 rounds in your gun?

If that is the case you are probably a criminal. That simply does not happen to regular people. And if it does you are dead regardless of your mag size. What if aliens attack? Probably just as likely. Stop worrying about what isn't going to happen. Criminals are using hi cap mags to kill innocent people, that's what is happening.

 

[2aguy]

Or, you are just caught in the middle of 2 gangs fighting....and you are the guy in the middle....so multiple shooters...and you have 5 bullets...decisions, decisions....

 

[2aguy]

Criminals are using hi cap mags to kill innocent people, that's what is happening.

And will keep happening since they won't obey a mag cap law...

 

[Brain357]

Or, you are just caught in the middle of 2 gangs fighting....and you are the guy in the middle....so multiple shooters...and you have 5 bullets...decisions, decisions....

If you are caught in the middle of 2 gangs fighting it won't matter how big your mag is. You have any real examples of someone who isn't a criminal caught between two gangs?

 

[Brain357]

Criminals are using hi cap mags to kill innocent people, that's what is happening.

And will keep happening since they won't obey a mag cap law...

Again the shooter from CA did obey the law so you can't say that. Most criminals don't need hi cap magazines so they won't bother spending the extra money to get them. They use them now because they are so plentiful.

 

[Brain357]

Or, you are just caught in the middle of 2 gangs fighting....and you are the guy in the middle....so multiple shooters...and you have 5 bullets...decisions, decisions....

BTW, what exactly would you do in this instance? You think a hi cap mag would save you? Would you actually start shooting at them? Seems the only thing you can do is run or drop on the ground and hope nobody shoots you. You draw and start shooting and you are toast. Both gangs will be shooting at you. Intelligence is your best defense, not a hi cap mag.