10 New Oil Pipelines and you're still screwed ..

[Toddsterpatriot]

In other words, you just made an ass of yourself. Under Eminent domain, the company still has to pay for any land it takes. Furthermore, it is only obtaining a right-of-way. It's not taking the surface rights to the land.

and if I don't want to sell any of my land WTF then?

idiot RW's were laying on bridges pointing assault rifles at federal agents over some asshat rancher who didn't even on the land being taken over by the Feds that wasn't being taken over because the FEDS OWNED THE DAMN LAND..


FUCKING POS RW HYPOCRITES ..

Hmm. You do realize that almost all of our infrastructure is built using eminent domain laws? I have personally been involved in the seizing of my families property for highway right of way.

Mark

You're right, but the eminent domained land used for highways and other infrastructure are used for Americans. This Keystone pipeline carries a foreign product destined for export to other countries after being refined in gulf coast refineries. The refining also creates more air pollution for an area that's already known as cancer alley. So anyway, I ask how much good will this pipeline help USA.

Why would this oil be exported if we're still importing heavy crude from Venezuela?

Probably to refine here and send to other countries. From what I read, much of the refined tar sand product is destined to go on the world market.

Probably to refine here and send to other countries.

Excellent! I love it when American companies can profitably produce value added goods for export.

 

[OnePercenter]

If OPEC controls the price of oil, why is the price going down? Wouldn't a higher price be in OPEC's best interests? Are you telling us that OPEC countries actually prefer to earn less revenue from oil rather than more?

Putin shooting down civilian aircraft. Putin promoting cyber terrorism.

Oil prices also affect currencies, such as the Russian ruble, which, in tandem with oil, has lost more than 30 percent since June.

Less revenue?

The cut won't negatively affect Gulf producers - Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, and the UAE- since they can sustain lower prices, as they have trillions saved up in buffer funds.

Doesn't take long to amass trillions when you're making $80.00/barrel profit.

 

[OnePercenter]

There is no down side to building the Keystone pipeline, hence Obama is a stupid moron.

Reducing or eliminating oil supply to the Midwest.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

yup smooth sailing in Houston Ship Channel ...

march, 2014


Ship Channel remains closed after oil spill - Houston Chronicle


now go pet the cat

That wasn't shit.
And it was closed for all of two days.

 

[Toro]

I remember an American pipeline that travels across Canadian territory.
I wonder if they whined like you when it was built?

Only the Canadian Leftist whiners.

 

[tinydancer]

There is no down side to building the Keystone pipeline, hence Obama is a stupid moron.

Reducing or eliminating oil supply to the Midwest.

Keystone I is still delivering to Illinois. Keystone II is of course still delivering to Oklahoma and with the southern leg of XL completed to Nederland Texas not one drop of crude has been redirected, reduced or eliminated.

Wood River is just kicking ass for example in Illinois. They've not been cut off and they are rocking on.

And the refined product is going to stay in the midwest. You should check out their website to learn about all their upgrades.

 

[OnePercenter]

Keystone I is still delivering to Illinois. Keystone II is of course still delivering to Oklahoma and with the southern leg of XL completed to Nederland Texas not one drop of crude has been redirected, reduced or eliminated.

Wood River is just kicking ass for example in Illinois. They've not been cut off and they are rocking on.

And the refined product is going to stay in the midwest. You should check out their website to learn about all their upgrades.

Here's your documented fact.

Pipeline Primer

 

[healthmyths]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

I want cheap energy that boost economies and create jobs.

Your clean air, clean water, and unpolluted soil is in greater jeopardy from moving oil by rail car than by pipeline. Another 2k miles of pipeline compared to the 10's of thousands miles of existing pipeline is no environmental threat at all.

Yet, again. You lose.

I only lose if you don't look at all the facts. The US, in the last few years has opened up massive oil and gas reserves that most experts agree will be the highest reserve level in the world. Higher than Saudi Arabia. Looks like energy sufficiency is no longer the problem that it was just a few years ago. No, I won't give you a link to that because it is too easy for you to find yourself. Bakken oil can easily be transported with it's own pipeline that won't have nearly the ecological or political problems that bitumen has. Why don't we use our own, especially when we get no additional energy security or any other benefit from Canadian bitumen anyway?

Once again! Which is a larger number 1 million barrels traveling one mile on the open ocean that has a greater risk and larger potential for destruction OR 700 barrels traveling in one mile of pipeline on DRY LAND?
Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?
Everything being equal China will by the oil. How it gets to China is the issue.
You want one million barrels a day travel on Pacific Northwest ports are being increasingly used to ship oil and coal to Asia.
Unfortunately,Northwest inland and coastal waters are some of the most dangerous in the world, with strong winds, powerful currents, rocky shores and river bars.
Unstable, steep slopes threaten train traffic heading to coal/oil ports, and a huge fishery and shellfish industry is at risk if a spill occurs.
The Pacific coastal water from south of the Columbia River outfall to the tip of Vancouver Island to the north (see map below), is commonly known as the Graveyard of the Pacific, and for good reason. You start with abruptly rising rocky coasts, add strong winds, and mix in low visibility from incessant fog and rain.

Strong winds, sometimes reaching hurricane strength, batter the Washington and Oregon coasts in winter and the foggiest location in the continental U.S. is Cape Disappointment on the northern terminus of the Columbia River (with 106 days a year of dense fog!). The interaction of the westward moving flow of the Columbia River and incoming waves produces the dangerous Columbia Bar (see picture), with large waves and threatening shoals. Strong easterly winds exit the Strait of Juan de Fuca, frequently reaching 60-80 mph.
Cliff Mass Weather Blog Are Pacific Northwest Waters Too Risky for Oil And Coal Ships

It just doesn't make sense to ship 1 million barrels in that waterway.
Pipe to Houston. Travel by ship in the calmer Gulf of Mexico and then through the Panama Canal to China.
That will be the LEAST risk of greater damage to the USA... not shipping it through waters 1/3 of the year has dense fog!

 

[BULLDOG]

I really don't care if Keystone has or has not an effect on gas prices.
I DO care though 1 million barrels traveling one mile on the worst piece of stormy ocean in a tanker when in one mile less then 700 barrels travels
through a pipeline ON DRY LAND!
The absolute idiocy of anti-Keystone people is they oppose because of the "environment"?
What is their problem in comprehending the simple fact that 1 million barrels traveling one mile on the ocean has
1) not only a GREATER risk of an accident
2) but when the accident occurs a GREATER area of being DAMAGED
3) by a GREATER amount of oil
then 700 barrels traveling one mile on dry land in a pipeline that joins already 185,000 miles of oil pipelines traversing the USA?
Are you anti-Keystone environmentalists that totally ignorant of real numbers..i.e. 1 million is a BIGGER number then 700 !

Are you trying to say that diluted bitumen (it's not oil) transported in that pipeline will not be refined and immediately put on transport ships for delivery around the world? Are you saying the diluted bitumen will be used exclusively in the U.S.? It's bound for ocean transport anyway, but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first before it eventually is put on a ship where the potential for disaster you describe is not reduced at all.

but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first

Sounds scary!! How deep is this aquifer?

it's not so much the Asphalt being passed off as oil, but the solvents the Asphalt use to dilute the Asphalt and MAKE it oil ... those solvents can't be cleaned up and the Asphalt WILL NOT flow through a pipeline without the solvents.

That wasn't my question.
How deep is the aquifer?

those solvents can't be cleaned up

Which solvents are they using and why do you feel they can't be cleaned up?

Gee I love it when they start to blather on about caring about the Ogallala aquifer.



Bloody freaking hypocrites. All the left wing whackos do is regurgitate lying talking points. This is all political theater.

Here you go Toddster. Here is a map of the pipelines that already cross the Ogallala.

How many are carrying Bitumen?

 

[Siete]

Are you trying to say that diluted bitumen (it's not oil) transported in that pipeline will not be refined and immediately put on transport ships for delivery around the world? Are you saying the diluted bitumen will be used exclusively in the U.S.? It's bound for ocean transport anyway, but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first before it eventually is put on a ship where the potential for disaster you describe is not reduced at all.

but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first

Sounds scary!! How deep is this aquifer?

it's not so much the Asphalt being passed off as oil, but the solvents the Asphalt use to dilute the Asphalt and MAKE it oil ... those solvents can't be cleaned up and the Asphalt WILL NOT flow through a pipeline without the solvents.

That wasn't my question.
How deep is the aquifer?

those solvents can't be cleaned up

Which solvents are they using and why do you feel they can't be cleaned up?

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

pour a 10 gallon barrel of naptha in your backyard and clean it up .. I'll wait.

Typical brain dead response. Naphtha is insoluable in water nimrod. Before you make a complete fool of yourself (too late) I suggest you do basic research.

so spill 10 gallons in your backyard and clean it up you dumbass. I listed the deadly cancer causing shit that they use to dilute freakin Asphalt, try reading the thread while you are moping up a hypothetical liquid I named in a hypothetical scenario ... too late hell. Too late for the French loving Canadian ass kissers.

 

[BULLDOG]

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

I want cheap energy that boost economies and create jobs.

Your clean air, clean water, and unpolluted soil is in greater jeopardy from moving oil by rail car than by pipeline. Another 2k miles of pipeline compared to the 10's of thousands miles of existing pipeline is no environmental threat at all.

Yet, again. You lose.

I only lose if you don't look at all the facts. The US, in the last few years has opened up massive oil and gas reserves that most experts agree will be the highest reserve level in the world. Higher than Saudi Arabia. Looks like energy sufficiency is no longer the problem that it was just a few years ago. No, I won't give you a link to that because it is too easy for you to find yourself. Bakken oil can easily be transported with it's own pipeline that won't have nearly the ecological or political problems that bitumen has. Why don't we use our own, especially when we get no additional energy security or any other benefit from Canadian bitumen anyway?

I have two relatives who work in the Bakken Oil fields... One of them was there when the oil car on a train went off the tracks and burned a town to the ground. Or did you forget that?
North Dakota town evacuates after train derails explodes and burns - The Denver Post
Canadian Oil Train Derails Destroys Center of Town
oil train derails burns town - Bing Videos

These are not imagined environmental problems. These are actual environmental disasters.


Your statement, in no way, gives good cause why the pipeline cannot be built.

Yuppers it was Bakken crude that burnt 47 people alive in Lac Megantic.

If people really took the time to consider where their rail lines that are carrying oil go thru urban centers they'd freak.

"It was Bakken oil that exploded in Lac Megantic, Quebec, last summer, incinerating much of the downtown and killing 47 people.

Again, Keystone’s opponents can’t place the blame on inferior standards or an uncaring foreign government, as the disaster involved a U.S. rail line carrying Bakken oil.

And similar accidents have taken place in the U.S. — in addition to the Casselton accident in December, a 90-car Genesee and Wyoming train carrying 2.7 million gallons of crude oil derailed and caught fire in rural Alabama in November, sending flames 300 feet into the air."

Kelly McParland The surge in rail accidents shifts Keystone debate from Canadian oil to U.S. safety National Post

As far as train wrecks in Canada, I certainly feel for them, but that's their problem to deal with. I'm not aware of any widespread opposition to a pipeline to transport bakkin oil. Bitumen is a problem. Oil from the bakken field , not so much. Why don't they lay one?

 

[Siete]

Bit oil and Keystone is just another RW project that has the same outcome as the rest of their pet projects.

Has Lois been arrested yet? How about the birth certificate bs? how about anything?

Keystone will pass because Saudi spent 10 billion $$ on a refinery in Texas City with Shell. I have no doubts about Keystone passing. I have no doubts about RW's are constantly getting punked by whoever and whatever comes along .. just as long as they can defend some other country and bitch about their own, their ALL IN.

 

[BULLDOG]

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

I want cheap energy that boost economies and create jobs.

Your clean air, clean water, and unpolluted soil is in greater jeopardy from moving oil by rail car than by pipeline. Another 2k miles of pipeline compared to the 10's of thousands miles of existing pipeline is no environmental threat at all.

Yet, again. You lose.

I only lose if you don't look at all the facts. The US, in the last few years has opened up massive oil and gas reserves that most experts agree will be the highest reserve level in the world. Higher than Saudi Arabia. Looks like energy sufficiency is no longer the problem that it was just a few years ago. No, I won't give you a link to that because it is too easy for you to find yourself. Bakken oil can easily be transported with it's own pipeline that won't have nearly the ecological or political problems that bitumen has. Why don't we use our own, especially when we get no additional energy security or any other benefit from Canadian bitumen anyway?

I have two relatives who work in the Bakken Oil fields... One of them was there when the oil car on a train went off the tracks and burned a town to the ground. Or did you forget that?
North Dakota town evacuates after train derails explodes and burns - The Denver Post
Canadian Oil Train Derails Destroys Center of Town
oil train derails burns town - Bing Videos

These are not imagined environmental problems. These are actual environmental disasters.


Your statement, in no way, gives good cause why the pipeline cannot be built.

Of course the train wreck was a tragedy. I never said there shouldn't be a line for the Bakken oil, which is real oil, and not bitumen. In fact I encourage them to build one. I'm just against Canadian bitumen which we don't need anyway.

*sigh* You really need to get up to speed. You import heavy crude from Venezuela and Nigeria as well.

Canada has been your number one supplier since 2004. Yes. From those oil sands.

You produce only 9 million barrels a day max. But America on the whole uses up to 18 million barrels of oil a day.

Do the math. Your EIA has stated that your imports will be necessary for many decades to come.

Now you have a choice. Buy a wood stove; get off the net; pump your water by hand; learn to ride a horse and get all your neighbors to do the same.

OR

Import oil from people who only riot when they lose the Stanley Cup and don't want to behead you.

Oh God.....you're not actually going with the old "approve the line or get used to riding a horse and using a wood stove" silliness are you? When our recently found reserves go on line, our oil deficit will be significantly reduced, and the 2mbd from Canada is and will be less critical than you oil company cheerleaders want people to believe. We aren't hurting for supply right now. There will be no reduction in cost between Canadian supply or anywhere else. Build a line and collect the oil we have in country. We don't need to be Canada's only customer. Are you really that invested in assuring oil companies a higher profit, or do you just support them because you oppose environmentalists? All you can do is carry on about how it won't be so bad, but can you give me one real reason why it would be necessary or even good for our country? No jobs, sold on the world market, anything else?

 

[BULLDOG]

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

I want cheap energy that boost economies and create jobs.

Your clean air, clean water, and unpolluted soil is in greater jeopardy from moving oil by rail car than by pipeline. Another 2k miles of pipeline compared to the 10's of thousands miles of existing pipeline is no environmental threat at all.

Yet, again. You lose.

I only lose if you don't look at all the facts. The US, in the last few years has opened up massive oil and gas reserves that most experts agree will be the highest reserve level in the world. Higher than Saudi Arabia. Looks like energy sufficiency is no longer the problem that it was just a few years ago. No, I won't give you a link to that because it is too easy for you to find yourself. Bakken oil can easily be transported with it's own pipeline that won't have nearly the ecological or political problems that bitumen has. Why don't we use our own, especially when we get no additional energy security or any other benefit from Canadian bitumen anyway?

I have two relatives who work in the Bakken Oil fields... One of them was there when the oil car on a train went off the tracks and burned a town to the ground. Or did you forget that?
North Dakota town evacuates after train derails explodes and burns - The Denver Post
Canadian Oil Train Derails Destroys Center of Town
oil train derails burns town - Bing Videos

These are not imagined environmental problems. These are actual environmental disasters.


Your statement, in no way, gives good cause why the pipeline cannot be built.

Of course the train wreck was a tragedy. I never said there shouldn't be a line for the Bakken oil, which is real oil, and not bitumen. In fact I encourage them to build one. I'm just against Canadian bitumen which we don't need anyway.

AGAIN you are missing the point entirely!
Which would you rather have :
1) a tanker floating 1 mile with 1 million barrels
2) a pipe on dry land with 700 barrels flowing in one mile?
Which has the greater chance of an accident with winter storms, human error and
tell me which would do greater damage 1 million barrels or 700 barrels?
See all these other minor issues fall by the wayside when your common sense says let's build a pipe that transfer 700 barrels in one mile
versus a tanker CARRYING ALL 1 million barrels in 1 mile on the open seas!

Just as soon as you can show that it will all be used here and not put on ships immediately after refining, you might have a point.

 

[BULLDOG]

Are you trying to say that diluted bitumen (it's not oil) transported in that pipeline will not be refined and immediately put on transport ships for delivery around the world? Are you saying the diluted bitumen will be used exclusively in the U.S.? It's bound for ocean transport anyway, but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first before it eventually is put on a ship where the potential for disaster you describe is not reduced at all.

but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first

Sounds scary!! How deep is this aquifer?

it's not so much the Asphalt being passed off as oil, but the solvents the Asphalt use to dilute the Asphalt and MAKE it oil ... those solvents can't be cleaned up and the Asphalt WILL NOT flow through a pipeline without the solvents.

That wasn't my question.
How deep is the aquifer?

those solvents can't be cleaned up

Which solvents are they using and why do you feel they can't be cleaned up?

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

pour a 10 gallon barrel of naptha in your backyard and clean it up .. I'll wait.

Typical brain dead response. Naphtha is insoluable in water nimrod. Before you make a complete fool of yourself (too late) I suggest you do basic research.

Lots of things are insoluble in water, but that doesn't make them safe. The bitumen it's self is not soluble in water either, but I don't want to drink it.




Health and safety considerations
Forms of naphtha may be carcinogenic, and frequently products sold as naphtha contain some impurities which may also have harmful properties of their own.[7][8] Like many hydrocarbon products, they are products of a refining process in which a complex soup of chemicals is broken into another range of chemicals, which are then graded and isolated mainly by their specific gravity and volatility. There is, therefore, a range of distinct chemicals included in each product. This makes rigorous comparisons and identification of specific carcinogens difficult, especially in our modern environment where people are daily exposed to many such products, and is further complicated by exposure to a significant range of other known and potential carcinogens.[9]
"Light naphtha [is] a mixture consisting mainly of straight-chained and cyclic aliphatic hydrocarbons having from five to nine carbon atoms per molecule. Heavy naphtha, a mixture consisting mainly of straight-chained and cyclic aliphatic hydrocarbons having from seven to nine carbons per molecule."[10] "Almost all volatile, lipid-soluble organic chemicals cause general, nonspecific depression of the central nervous system or general anesthesia."[11] The OSHA PEL TWA = 100 parts-per-million (ppm); Health Hazards/Target Organs = eyes, skin, RS, CNS, liver, kidney. Symptoms of acute exposure are dizziness and narcosis with loss of consciousness. The World Health Organization categorizes health effects into three groups: reversible symptoms (Type 1), mild chronic encephalopathy (Type 2) and severe chronic toxic encephalopathy (Type 3).
Topical exposure to naphtha can cause a burning sensation on the skin within a period of minutes to an hour, followed by contact dermatitis—a rash—that can last for days to weeks.

 

[westwall]

but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first

Sounds scary!! How deep is this aquifer?

it's not so much the Asphalt being passed off as oil, but the solvents the Asphalt use to dilute the Asphalt and MAKE it oil ... those solvents can't be cleaned up and the Asphalt WILL NOT flow through a pipeline without the solvents.

That wasn't my question.
How deep is the aquifer?

those solvents can't be cleaned up

Which solvents are they using and why do you feel they can't be cleaned up?

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

pour a 10 gallon barrel of naptha in your backyard and clean it up .. I'll wait.

Typical brain dead response. Naphtha is insoluable in water nimrod. Before you make a complete fool of yourself (too late) I suggest you do basic research.

Lots of things are insoluble in water, but that doesn't make them safe. The bitumen it's self is not soluble in water either, but I don't want to drink it.




Health and safety considerations
Forms of naphtha may be carcinogenic, and frequently products sold as naphtha contain some impurities which may also have harmful properties of their own.[7][8] Like many hydrocarbon products, they are products of a refining process in which a complex soup of chemicals is broken into another range of chemicals, which are then graded and isolated mainly by their specific gravity and volatility. There is, therefore, a range of distinct chemicals included in each product. This makes rigorous comparisons and identification of specific carcinogens difficult, especially in our modern environment where people are daily exposed to many such products, and is further complicated by exposure to a significant range of other known and potential carcinogens.[9]
"Light naphtha [is] a mixture consisting mainly of straight-chained and cyclic aliphatic hydrocarbons having from five to nine carbon atoms per molecule. Heavy naphtha, a mixture consisting mainly of straight-chained and cyclic aliphatic hydrocarbons having from seven to nine carbons per molecule."[10] "Almost all volatile, lipid-soluble organic chemicals cause general, nonspecific depression of the central nervous system or general anesthesia."[11] The OSHA PEL TWA = 100 parts-per-million (ppm); Health Hazards/Target Organs = eyes, skin, RS, CNS, liver, kidney. Symptoms of acute exposure are dizziness and narcosis with loss of consciousness. The World Health Organization categorizes health effects into three groups: reversible symptoms (Type 1), mild chronic encephalopathy (Type 2) and severe chronic toxic encephalopathy (Type 3).
Topical exposure to naphtha can cause a burning sensation on the skin within a period of minutes to an hour, followed by contact dermatitis—a rash—that can last for days to weeks.

I think that even a silly person like you would know enough not to drink anything that makes your eyes water and causes your nose to run and smells bad. Forgive me if I'm wrong and you actually DO enjoy living your life to the fullest, but intelligent people are ....well intelligent enough to know that you shouldn't imbibe it.

 

[BULLDOG]

but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first

Sounds scary!! How deep is this aquifer?

it's not so much the Asphalt being passed off as oil, but the solvents the Asphalt use to dilute the Asphalt and MAKE it oil ... those solvents can't be cleaned up and the Asphalt WILL NOT flow through a pipeline without the solvents.

That wasn't my question.
How deep is the aquifer?

those solvents can't be cleaned up

Which solvents are they using and why do you feel they can't be cleaned up?

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

pour a 10 gallon barrel of naptha in your backyard and clean it up .. I'll wait.

Typical brain dead response. Naphtha is insoluable in water nimrod. Before you make a complete fool of yourself (too late) I suggest you do basic research.

Not to mention so volatile, it would evaporate long before seeping hundreds of feet down into an aquifer.
Liberals are usually pretty weak on the science.

light Naptha vaporizes between 86F and 194F Heavy naptha between 194F and 392F. The Ogallala stays pretty close to 59F year round, with a close to linear average gradient to ground level. Heavy naptha evaporate wouldn't evaporate at all, and light naptha might lose some of it's higher constituents, but not many. How about dazzling me with all that scientific knowledge and explain why you don't think it would make it to the water.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first

Sounds scary!! How deep is this aquifer?

it's not so much the Asphalt being passed off as oil, but the solvents the Asphalt use to dilute the Asphalt and MAKE it oil ... those solvents can't be cleaned up and the Asphalt WILL NOT flow through a pipeline without the solvents.

That wasn't my question.
How deep is the aquifer?

those solvents can't be cleaned up

Which solvents are they using and why do you feel they can't be cleaned up?

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

pour a 10 gallon barrel of naptha in your backyard and clean it up .. I'll wait.

Typical brain dead response. Naphtha is insoluable in water nimrod. Before you make a complete fool of yourself (too late) I suggest you do basic research.

Lots of things are insoluble in water, but that doesn't make them safe. The bitumen it's self is not soluble in water either, but I don't want to drink it.




Health and safety considerations
Forms of naphtha may be carcinogenic, and frequently products sold as naphtha contain some impurities which may also have harmful properties of their own.[7][8] Like many hydrocarbon products, they are products of a refining process in which a complex soup of chemicals is broken into another range of chemicals, which are then graded and isolated mainly by their specific gravity and volatility. There is, therefore, a range of distinct chemicals included in each product. This makes rigorous comparisons and identification of specific carcinogens difficult, especially in our modern environment where people are daily exposed to many such products, and is further complicated by exposure to a significant range of other known and potential carcinogens.[9]
"Light naphtha [is] a mixture consisting mainly of straight-chained and cyclic aliphatic hydrocarbons having from five to nine carbon atoms per molecule. Heavy naphtha, a mixture consisting mainly of straight-chained and cyclic aliphatic hydrocarbons having from seven to nine carbons per molecule."[10] "Almost all volatile, lipid-soluble organic chemicals cause general, nonspecific depression of the central nervous system or general anesthesia."[11] The OSHA PEL TWA = 100 parts-per-million (ppm); Health Hazards/Target Organs = eyes, skin, RS, CNS, liver, kidney. Symptoms of acute exposure are dizziness and narcosis with loss of consciousness. The World Health Organization categorizes health effects into three groups: reversible symptoms (Type 1), mild chronic encephalopathy (Type 2) and severe chronic toxic encephalopathy (Type 3).
Topical exposure to naphtha can cause a burning sensation on the skin within a period of minutes to an hour, followed by contact dermatitis—a rash—that can last for days to weeks.

Lots of things are insoluble in water, but that doesn't make them safe.

True, but it does make it harder for them to contaminate an aquifer, idiot!

 

[BULLDOG]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

I want cheap energy that boost economies and create jobs.

Your clean air, clean water, and unpolluted soil is in greater jeopardy from moving oil by rail car than by pipeline. Another 2k miles of pipeline compared to the 10's of thousands miles of existing pipeline is no environmental threat at all.

Yet, again. You lose.

I only lose if you don't look at all the facts. The US, in the last few years has opened up massive oil and gas reserves that most experts agree will be the highest reserve level in the world. Higher than Saudi Arabia. Looks like energy sufficiency is no longer the problem that it was just a few years ago. No, I won't give you a link to that because it is too easy for you to find yourself. Bakken oil can easily be transported with it's own pipeline that won't have nearly the ecological or political problems that bitumen has. Why don't we use our own, especially when we get no additional energy security or any other benefit from Canadian bitumen anyway?

Once again! Which is a larger number 1 million barrels traveling one mile on the open ocean that has a greater risk and larger potential for destruction OR 700 barrels traveling in one mile of pipeline on DRY LAND?
Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?
Everything being equal China will by the oil. How it gets to China is the issue.
You want one million barrels a day travel on Pacific Northwest ports are being increasingly used to ship oil and coal to Asia.
Unfortunately,Northwest inland and coastal waters are some of the most dangerous in the world, with strong winds, powerful currents, rocky shores and river bars.
Unstable, steep slopes threaten train traffic heading to coal/oil ports, and a huge fishery and shellfish industry is at risk if a spill occurs.
The Pacific coastal water from south of the Columbia River outfall to the tip of Vancouver Island to the north (see map below), is commonly known as the Graveyard of the Pacific, and for good reason. You start with abruptly rising rocky coasts, add strong winds, and mix in low visibility from incessant fog and rain.

Strong winds, sometimes reaching hurricane strength, batter the Washington and Oregon coasts in winter and the foggiest location in the continental U.S. is Cape Disappointment on the northern terminus of the Columbia River (with 106 days a year of dense fog!). The interaction of the westward moving flow of the Columbia River and incoming waves produces the dangerous Columbia Bar (see picture), with large waves and threatening shoals. Strong easterly winds exit the Strait of Juan de Fuca, frequently reaching 60-80 mph.
Cliff Mass Weather Blog Are Pacific Northwest Waters Too Risky for Oil And Coal Ships

It just doesn't make sense to ship 1 million barrels in that waterway.
Pipe to Houston. Travel by ship in the calmer Gulf of Mexico and then through the Panama Canal to China.
That will be the LEAST risk of greater damage to the USA... not shipping it through waters 1/3 of the year has dense fog!

So you are afraid fog might make a ship more likely to spill? You're grabbing at straws now. You know a little bad weather won't effect a ship.

 

[BULLDOG]

it's not so much the Asphalt being passed off as oil, but the solvents the Asphalt use to dilute the Asphalt and MAKE it oil ... those solvents can't be cleaned up and the Asphalt WILL NOT flow through a pipeline without the solvents.

That wasn't my question.
How deep is the aquifer?

those solvents can't be cleaned up

Which solvents are they using and why do you feel they can't be cleaned up?

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

pour a 10 gallon barrel of naptha in your backyard and clean it up .. I'll wait.

Typical brain dead response. Naphtha is insoluable in water nimrod. Before you make a complete fool of yourself (too late) I suggest you do basic research.

Lots of things are insoluble in water, but that doesn't make them safe. The bitumen it's self is not soluble in water either, but I don't want to drink it.




Health and safety considerations
Forms of naphtha may be carcinogenic, and frequently products sold as naphtha contain some impurities which may also have harmful properties of their own.[7][8] Like many hydrocarbon products, they are products of a refining process in which a complex soup of chemicals is broken into another range of chemicals, which are then graded and isolated mainly by their specific gravity and volatility. There is, therefore, a range of distinct chemicals included in each product. This makes rigorous comparisons and identification of specific carcinogens difficult, especially in our modern environment where people are daily exposed to many such products, and is further complicated by exposure to a significant range of other known and potential carcinogens.[9]
"Light naphtha [is] a mixture consisting mainly of straight-chained and cyclic aliphatic hydrocarbons having from five to nine carbon atoms per molecule. Heavy naphtha, a mixture consisting mainly of straight-chained and cyclic aliphatic hydrocarbons having from seven to nine carbons per molecule."[10] "Almost all volatile, lipid-soluble organic chemicals cause general, nonspecific depression of the central nervous system or general anesthesia."[11] The OSHA PEL TWA = 100 parts-per-million (ppm); Health Hazards/Target Organs = eyes, skin, RS, CNS, liver, kidney. Symptoms of acute exposure are dizziness and narcosis with loss of consciousness. The World Health Organization categorizes health effects into three groups: reversible symptoms (Type 1), mild chronic encephalopathy (Type 2) and severe chronic toxic encephalopathy (Type 3).
Topical exposure to naphtha can cause a burning sensation on the skin within a period of minutes to an hour, followed by contact dermatitis—a rash—that can last for days to weeks.

I think that even a silly person like you would know enough not to drink anything that makes your eyes water and causes your nose to run and smells bad. Forgive me if I'm wrong and you actually DO enjoy living your life to the fullest, but intelligent people are ....well intelligent enough to know that you shouldn't imbibe it.

You're the one who said it was insoluble in water as if that made any difference.