10 New Oil Pipelines and you're still screwed ..

[healthmyths]

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

I want cheap energy that boost economies and create jobs.

Your clean air, clean water, and unpolluted soil is in greater jeopardy from moving oil by rail car than by pipeline. Another 2k miles of pipeline compared to the 10's of thousands miles of existing pipeline is no environmental threat at all.

Yet, again. You lose.

I only lose if you don't look at all the facts. The US, in the last few years has opened up massive oil and gas reserves that most experts agree will be the highest reserve level in the world. Higher than Saudi Arabia. Looks like energy sufficiency is no longer the problem that it was just a few years ago. No, I won't give you a link to that because it is too easy for you to find yourself. Bakken oil can easily be transported with it's own pipeline that won't have nearly the ecological or political problems that bitumen has. Why don't we use our own, especially when we get no additional energy security or any other benefit from Canadian bitumen anyway?

I have two relatives who work in the Bakken Oil fields... One of them was there when the oil car on a train went off the tracks and burned a town to the ground. Or did you forget that?
North Dakota town evacuates after train derails explodes and burns - The Denver Post
Canadian Oil Train Derails Destroys Center of Town
oil train derails burns town - Bing Videos

These are not imagined environmental problems. These are actual environmental disasters.


Your statement, in no way, gives good cause why the pipeline cannot be built.

Of course the train wreck was a tragedy. I never said there shouldn't be a line for the Bakken oil, which is real oil, and not bitumen. In fact I encourage them to build one. I'm just against Canadian bitumen which we don't need anyway.

AGAIN you are missing the point entirely!
Which would you rather have :
1) a tanker floating 1 mile with 1 million barrels
2) a pipe on dry land with 700 barrels flowing in one mile?
Which has the greater chance of an accident with winter storms, human error and
tell me which would do greater damage 1 million barrels or 700 barrels?
See all these other minor issues fall by the wayside when your common sense says let's build a pipe that transfer 700 barrels in one mile
versus a tanker CARRYING ALL 1 million barrels in 1 mile on the open seas!

 

[80zephyr]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

If OPEC controls the price of oil, why is the price going down? Wouldn't a higher price be in OPEC's best interests? Are you telling us that OPEC countries actually prefer to earn less revenue from oil rather than more?

OPEC will cut the cost of oil to stop fracking, which has to generate enough money to offset the cost of production. I believe that limit as already been reached. They want to "starve" other methods of production.

They will fail.

Mark

 

[healthmyths]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Well it doesn't matter if the Keystone is built or not. Canuck crude is coming your way big time via rail and truck.

Not my way, but I do have empathy (look it up, as a Callous Conservative it's a new concept to you) for the farmers of Nebraska who fear a leak will destroy the in ground water supply and their life style.

Do you ever read any of the comments or do you just spout an uninformed opinion?

FEAR A LEAK???
May I remind you of what a professional hydrologist that LIVES in Ogallala with 40 years studying Ogallala opinion one I far more respect then any laymen's opinion!

"Hydrology is the study of the movement, distribution, and quality of water on Earth and other planets, including the hydrologic cycle, water resources and environmental watershed sustainability."
James Goeke an expert i.e. HYDROLOGIST who LIVES in the Ogallala Aquifer area.
Mr. Goeke said...“A lot of people in the debate about the pipeline talk about how leakage would foul the water and ruin the entire water supply in the state of Nebraska and that’s just a false,” he said.
His explanation is simple. Seventy-five to 80 percent of the aquifer lies west of the proposed pipeline route.
This was 1970 and James Goeke had just joined the team at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln’s Conservation and Survey Division where he still works as a hydrologist. He never would have guessed it, but someday he would own a chunk of western Nebraska and cherish it as much as any person could. Scattered around the state are close to 6,000 holes each about 5 inches in diameter drilled to the base of the Ogallala Aquifer.
During the 1970s, Goeke drilled about 1,000 of those holes in the deepest part of the aquifer.
He said TransCanada could answer every question and was honest and forthcoming. That didn’t immediately quiet all his reluctance, so he continued his research until he came to a conclusion: The Keystone XL pipeline is not a serious threat to the Ogallala Aquifer.

 

[80zephyr]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

saftey isn't my concern ... that obstacle belongs to healthdolt.

my BIGGEST problem is CONGRESS giving away American citizens hard earned land to another Country ... anyone who supports Keystone supports giving away another mans hard earned property to a French Oil Company.

Screw that, Screw Keystone. Screw Congress.

How do you figure? The company building the pipeline has to pay for the use of the land, and furthermore, they are only buying the right-of-way. Farmers and ranchers will still be able to farm and ranch on the land after the pipeline is laid and buried.

well, you're an idiot ..

Keystone XL Eminent Domain Map - Keystone Mapping ProjectKeystone Mapping Project

In other words, you just made an ass of yourself. Under Eminent domain, the company still has to pay for any land it takes. Furthermore, it is only obtaining a right-of-way. It's not taking the surface rights to the land.

and if I don't want to sell any of my land WTF then?

idiot RW's were laying on bridges pointing assault rifles at federal agents over some asshat rancher who didn't even on the land being taken over by the Feds that wasn't being taken over because the FEDS OWNED THE DAMN LAND..


FUCKING POS RW HYPOCRITES ..

Hmm. You do realize that almost all of our infrastructure is built using eminent domain laws? I have personally been involved in the seizing of my families property for highway right of way.

Mark

 

[Wry Catcher]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

 

[healthmyths]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

If OPEC controls the price of oil, why is the price going down? Wouldn't a higher price be in OPEC's best interests? Are you telling us that OPEC countries actually prefer to earn less revenue from oil rather than more?

OPEC will cut the cost of oil to stop fracking, which has to generate enough money to offset the cost of production. I believe that limit as already been reached. They want to "starve" other methods of production.

They will fail.

Mark

Mark... how much does it cost to produce a barrel of oil? Not a hard thing to find out so why did you form an opinion i.e."I believe that limit..."?
How much does it cost to produce crude oil and natural gas - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration EIA

Per the below total cost on shore $16.88 in the middle east!
So you believe they will cut the cost down to $17 a barrel?

 

[80zephyr]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

I am in the building industry. I got a degree in architecture in 1976. When I graduated solar was "on the cusp" of being the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Forgive me if I don't share your enthusiasm.

Mark

 

[tinydancer]

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

I want cheap energy that boost economies and create jobs.

Your clean air, clean water, and unpolluted soil is in greater jeopardy from moving oil by rail car than by pipeline. Another 2k miles of pipeline compared to the 10's of thousands miles of existing pipeline is no environmental threat at all.

Yet, again. You lose.

I only lose if you don't look at all the facts. The US, in the last few years has opened up massive oil and gas reserves that most experts agree will be the highest reserve level in the world. Higher than Saudi Arabia. Looks like energy sufficiency is no longer the problem that it was just a few years ago. No, I won't give you a link to that because it is too easy for you to find yourself. Bakken oil can easily be transported with it's own pipeline that won't have nearly the ecological or political problems that bitumen has. Why don't we use our own, especially when we get no additional energy security or any other benefit from Canadian bitumen anyway?

I have two relatives who work in the Bakken Oil fields... One of them was there when the oil car on a train went off the tracks and burned a town to the ground. Or did you forget that?
North Dakota town evacuates after train derails explodes and burns - The Denver Post
Canadian Oil Train Derails Destroys Center of Town
oil train derails burns town - Bing Videos

These are not imagined environmental problems. These are actual environmental disasters.


Your statement, in no way, gives good cause why the pipeline cannot be built.

Your post strongly suggests that Canada needs to ship it's oil to it's ports and refine it in Canada. We don't need it to travel on our rails, roads or in a pipeline. If we need jobs, build a pipeline to move water from flood prone zones to our Western Desserts and make them into farms.

What part of no one is forcing your refineries to buy our oil?

What part of your companies on the Gulf are tooled for heavy crude and are buying millions of barrels a day don't you get?

Geeze louise get your head out of the clouds and address the reality that you have imported Canuck crude for forever and it's not going to stop being imported.

Get real.

So its pick your poison time. I personally believe that pipelines are the safest way to transport compared to rail or truck.

We are your number one supplier. And that is just not going to change any time at all.

 

[80zephyr]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

If OPEC controls the price of oil, why is the price going down? Wouldn't a higher price be in OPEC's best interests? Are you telling us that OPEC countries actually prefer to earn less revenue from oil rather than more?

OPEC will cut the cost of oil to stop fracking, which has to generate enough money to offset the cost of production. I believe that limit as already been reached. They want to "starve" other methods of production.

They will fail.

Mark

Mark... how much does it cost to produce a barrel of oil? Not a hard thing to find out so why did you form an opinion i.e."I believe that limit..."?
How much does it cost to produce crude oil and natural gas - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration EIA

Per the below total cost on shore $16.88 in the middle east!
So you believe they will cut the cost down to $17 a barrel?

View attachment 34434

Can OPEC cut prices to stifle competition? Absolutely. But, the SECOND they raise prices, these alternatives go back on line.

So, unless OPEC wants to live in a perpetual state of low cost oil, their plan will fail.

Mark

 

[tinydancer]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Well it doesn't matter if the Keystone is built or not. Canuck crude is coming your way big time via rail and truck.

So let it be and stay the fuck out of our internal, national business.

Hey we are not making you buy our oil. Your companies want it and it's coming to you by hook or by crook. Rail imports have surged like crazy.

 

[healthmyths]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

Test plots of switchgrass at Auburn University have produced up to 15 tons of dry biomass per acre, and five- year yields average 11.5 tons—enough to make 1,150 gallons of ethanol per acre each year.
Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures
OK so ONE acre generated 1,150 gallons of ETHANOL.. not gas..
The USA alone burned in 2013 burned 13,310,000,000 of ethanol How much ethanol is produced imported and consumed the United States - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration EIA
To replace that 13.3 billion of gallons with switchgrass would require 11,573,913 acres... just to replace ethanol!
In 2013, about 134.51 billion gallons of gas was burned.
To replace all the 134,510,000,000 of gas with switchgrass at 1,150 gallons per acre would require 116,965,217 acres.
The U.S. land area covers nearly 2.3 billion acres. USDA ERS - Land Use Land Value Tenure Background
Or 20% of all farmland used JUST for Switchgrass to replace all the gasoline burned in the USA.
BUT it gets more complicated..
1.5 gallons of ethanol produces the energy of one gallon of gasoline. ...
So that means 30% of all farmland..just to use SWITCHGRASS!
Plus none of the above has calculated the COSTS of switching entirely to Switchgrass.
Yea another one of the "promising" with subsidies let's put on a stage play... mentality!
Reality versus ....child play!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I really don't care if Keystone has or has not an effect on gas prices.
I DO care though 1 million barrels traveling one mile on the worst piece of stormy ocean in a tanker when in one mile less then 700 barrels travels
through a pipeline ON DRY LAND!
The absolute idiocy of anti-Keystone people is they oppose because of the "environment"?
What is their problem in comprehending the simple fact that 1 million barrels traveling one mile on the ocean has
1) not only a GREATER risk of an accident
2) but when the accident occurs a GREATER area of being DAMAGED
3) by a GREATER amount of oil
then 700 barrels traveling one mile on dry land in a pipeline that joins already 185,000 miles of oil pipelines traversing the USA?
Are you anti-Keystone environmentalists that totally ignorant of real numbers..i.e. 1 million is a BIGGER number then 700 !

Are you trying to say that diluted bitumen (it's not oil) transported in that pipeline will not be refined and immediately put on transport ships for delivery around the world? Are you saying the diluted bitumen will be used exclusively in the U.S.? It's bound for ocean transport anyway, but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first before it eventually is put on a ship where the potential for disaster you describe is not reduced at all.

but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first

Sounds scary!! How deep is this aquifer?

it's not so much the Asphalt being passed off as oil, but the solvents the Asphalt use to dilute the Asphalt and MAKE it oil ... those solvents can't be cleaned up and the Asphalt WILL NOT flow through a pipeline without the solvents.

That wasn't my question.
How deep is the aquifer?

those solvents can't be cleaned up

Which solvents are they using and why do you feel they can't be cleaned up?

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

pour a 10 gallon barrel of naptha in your backyard and clean it up .. I'll wait.

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

And you base this on your deep understanding of geology?
Will it happen instantly? Or will it take a while?

 

[tinydancer]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

I am in the building industry. I got a degree in architecture in 1976. When I graduated solar was "on the cusp" of being the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Forgive me if I don't share your enthusiasm.

Mark

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

I am in the building industry. I got a degree in architecture in 1976. When I graduated solar was "on the cusp" of being the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Forgive me if I don't share your enthusiasm.

Mark

No guff re: solar. Ditto wind.

Even now Ivanpah is having mega issues. It appears the sun has not been co-operating with them. And on the very serious side of this they have raped the pristine Mojave and fried birds in the sky to build this piece of garbage.

The article is worth the read.

Thermal Solar Energy -- Some Technologies Really Are Dumb

"The largest solar energy facility in the world is already irrelevant and has cost a lot more to construct than any other form of energy.

The Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System is a 5-square-mile, 392 MW array that cost $2.2 billion.

It is located in the Mojave Desert, where the Sun always shines, and is supposed to produce a billion kWhs per year for 25 years.

But there’s a problem – the Sun does not seem to be cooperating.

A spokesman for NRG Energy blamed the weather, saying the Sun didn’t perform as predicted.

Instead of a billion kWhsof electricity, this year Ivanpah will produce less than 0.4 billion kWhrs, making its capacity factor only 12%, not the 30% advertised.

And certainly not the 90% of base load generators like nuclear power."

Thermal Solar Energy -- Some Technologies Really Are Dumb - Forbes

 

[Wry Catcher]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

I am in the building industry. I got a degree in architecture in 1976. When I graduated solar was "on the cusp" of being the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Forgive me if I don't share your enthusiasm.

Mark

You see the glass half full, or maybe empty. I don't. Did you read the link I posted, things have changed a lot since 1976. In the SF Bay Area parking lots in schools and many municipal buildings are now covered with solar panels, roofs in many municipal building and even privately owned homes and businesses are going solar. Windmills were in use in San Francisco at the turn of the century despite much skepticism, yet were instrumental in the building of Golden Gate Park:

San Francisco s Historic Dutch Windmill

At the turn of this century, San Francisco's coast was lined with barren, windblown sand dunes. Almost no plants could survive the shifting, inhospitable environment. There was no evidence that this desolate wasteland would one day be home to the spectacular gardens and fields of Golden Gate Park. The essential problem facing the early developers of the park was how to provide the enormous quantities of water necessary to transform the dunes into a lush paradise.
Initially, the Spring Valley Water Company supplied water for the development of the park. But the water they supplied was expensive; $1,050 per month for enough water to irrigate only 75 acres, and so the city pursued alternative sources of fresh water. Wells were drilled along the San Francisco's coast as early as 1873, indicating that there was fresh water which could be tapped very near the ocean. A proposal was made to build a windmill right on the dunes and to use the prevailing westernly winds to pump water from beneath the dunes and into the park.

A lot of skepticism surrounded the decision to built a windmill along San Francisco's coastline. People doubted that an extensive source of fresh water could be found so close to the ocean. There were also concerns that the proposed windmill would not provide enough force to successfully pump water. Despite the doubts, construction of the windmill was ordered in 1902. Commisioners Speckle, Lloyd, and Aaron were appointed by Schmitz (John McLaren, superintendent of the Golden Gate Park) to oversee the construction of the windmill, at a cost not to exceed $14,000. Fulton Engineering Company won the bid to supply the necessry ironwork, at a price of $3100 and the Pope & Talbot Lumber Co. donated Oregon Pine spars. Construction of the Dutch Windmill was completed prior to June 30th, 1902, at a total cost of $16,000.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Are you trying to say that diluted bitumen (it's not oil) transported in that pipeline will not be refined and immediately put on transport ships for delivery around the world? Are you saying the diluted bitumen will be used exclusively in the U.S.? It's bound for ocean transport anyway, but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first before it eventually is put on a ship where the potential for disaster you describe is not reduced at all.

but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first

Sounds scary!! How deep is this aquifer?

it's not so much the Asphalt being passed off as oil, but the solvents the Asphalt use to dilute the Asphalt and MAKE it oil ... those solvents can't be cleaned up and the Asphalt WILL NOT flow through a pipeline without the solvents.

That wasn't my question.
How deep is the aquifer?

those solvents can't be cleaned up

Which solvents are they using and why do you feel they can't be cleaned up?

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

pour a 10 gallon barrel of naptha in your backyard and clean it up .. I'll wait.

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

And you base this on your deep understanding of geology?
Will it happen instantly? Or will it take a while?

Yeah Todd, no one gives a shit about pollution in our air or water, especially when the alternative (preventing pollution) would cut the income of the polluters.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as....

As long as the sun sets and the wind is variable.

Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass.

Great idea, First World countries don't need good energy sources, they can burn weeds and manure.

 

[westwall]

I really don't care if Keystone has or has not an effect on gas prices.
I DO care though 1 million barrels traveling one mile on the worst piece of stormy ocean in a tanker when in one mile less then 700 barrels travels
through a pipeline ON DRY LAND!
The absolute idiocy of anti-Keystone people is they oppose because of the "environment"?
What is their problem in comprehending the simple fact that 1 million barrels traveling one mile on the ocean has
1) not only a GREATER risk of an accident
2) but when the accident occurs a GREATER area of being DAMAGED
3) by a GREATER amount of oil
then 700 barrels traveling one mile on dry land in a pipeline that joins already 185,000 miles of oil pipelines traversing the USA?
Are you anti-Keystone environmentalists that totally ignorant of real numbers..i.e. 1 million is a BIGGER number then 700 !

Are you trying to say that diluted bitumen (it's not oil) transported in that pipeline will not be refined and immediately put on transport ships for delivery around the world? Are you saying the diluted bitumen will be used exclusively in the U.S.? It's bound for ocean transport anyway, but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first before it eventually is put on a ship where the potential for disaster you describe is not reduced at all.

but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first

Sounds scary!! How deep is this aquifer?

it's not so much the Asphalt being passed off as oil, but the solvents the Asphalt use to dilute the Asphalt and MAKE it oil ... those solvents can't be cleaned up and the Asphalt WILL NOT flow through a pipeline without the solvents.

That wasn't my question.
How deep is the aquifer?

those solvents can't be cleaned up

Which solvents are they using and why do you feel they can't be cleaned up?

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

pour a 10 gallon barrel of naptha in your backyard and clean it up .. I'll wait.

Typical brain dead response. Naphtha is insoluable in water nimrod. Before you make a complete fool of yourself (too late) I suggest you do basic research.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first

Sounds scary!! How deep is this aquifer?

it's not so much the Asphalt being passed off as oil, but the solvents the Asphalt use to dilute the Asphalt and MAKE it oil ... those solvents can't be cleaned up and the Asphalt WILL NOT flow through a pipeline without the solvents.

That wasn't my question.
How deep is the aquifer?

those solvents can't be cleaned up

Which solvents are they using and why do you feel they can't be cleaned up?

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

pour a 10 gallon barrel of naptha in your backyard and clean it up .. I'll wait.

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

And you base this on your deep understanding of geology?
Will it happen instantly? Or will it take a while?

Yeah Todd, no one gives a shit about pollution in our air or water, especially when the alternative (preventing pollution) would cut the income of the polluters.

There is no pollution involved in your unreliable more expensive "green energy". LOL!
Your "green energy" would cut everyone's income.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are you trying to say that diluted bitumen (it's not oil) transported in that pipeline will not be refined and immediately put on transport ships for delivery around the world? Are you saying the diluted bitumen will be used exclusively in the U.S.? It's bound for ocean transport anyway, but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first before it eventually is put on a ship where the potential for disaster you describe is not reduced at all.

but the XL line routs it across a critical aquifer first

Sounds scary!! How deep is this aquifer?

it's not so much the Asphalt being passed off as oil, but the solvents the Asphalt use to dilute the Asphalt and MAKE it oil ... those solvents can't be cleaned up and the Asphalt WILL NOT flow through a pipeline without the solvents.

That wasn't my question.
How deep is the aquifer?

those solvents can't be cleaned up

Which solvents are they using and why do you feel they can't be cleaned up?

the point is if spilled those solvents will make it to the aquifer, regardless of depth.

pour a 10 gallon barrel of naptha in your backyard and clean it up .. I'll wait.

Typical brain dead response. Naphtha is insoluable in water nimrod. Before you make a complete fool of yourself (too late) I suggest you do basic research.

Not to mention so volatile, it would evaporate long before seeping hundreds of feet down into an aquifer.
Liberals are usually pretty weak on the science.