10 New Oil Pipelines and you're still screwed ..

[80zephyr]

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

I am in the building industry. I got a degree in architecture in 1976. When I graduated solar was "on the cusp" of being the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Forgive me if I don't share your enthusiasm.

Mark

You see the glass half full, or maybe empty. I don't. Did you read the link I posted, things have changed a lot since 1976. In the SF Bay Area parking lots in schools and many municipal buildings are now covered with solar panels, roofs in many municipal building and even privately owned homes and businesses are going solar. Windmills were in use in San Francisco at the turn of the century despite much skepticism, yet were instrumental in the building of Golden Gate Park:

San Francisco s Historic Dutch Windmill

At the turn of this century, San Francisco's coast was lined with barren, windblown sand dunes. Almost no plants could survive the shifting, inhospitable environment. There was no evidence that this desolate wasteland would one day be home to the spectacular gardens and fields of Golden Gate Park. The essential problem facing the early developers of the park was how to provide the enormous quantities of water necessary to transform the dunes into a lush paradise.
Initially, the Spring Valley Water Company supplied water for the development of the park. But the water they supplied was expensive; $1,050 per month for enough water to irrigate only 75 acres, and so the city pursued alternative sources of fresh water. Wells were drilled along the San Francisco's coast as early as 1873, indicating that there was fresh water which could be tapped very near the ocean. A proposal was made to build a windmill right on the dunes and to use the prevailing westernly winds to pump water from beneath the dunes and into the park.

A lot of skepticism surrounded the decision to built a windmill along San Francisco's coastline. People doubted that an extensive source of fresh water could be found so close to the ocean. There were also concerns that the proposed windmill would not provide enough force to successfully pump water. Despite the doubts, construction of the windmill was ordered in 1902. Commisioners Speckle, Lloyd, and Aaron were appointed by Schmitz (John McLaren, superintendent of the Golden Gate Park) to oversee the construction of the windmill, at a cost not to exceed $14,000. Fulton Engineering Company won the bid to supply the necessry ironwork, at a price of $3100 and the Pope & Talbot Lumber Co. donated Oregon Pine spars. Construction of the Dutch Windmill was completed prior to June 30th, 1902, at a total cost of $16,000.

I will admit, solar energy is much more reliable in California. I live in Wisconsin. And, most people don't live in solar friendly confines like California.

I always fall back to reality. I look around, and I see that the people that believe like you do really don't back their words with actions. If renewables are so incredible, you would have them installed on your own house.

Do you?

Mark

 

[Wry Catcher]

Still screwed when OPEC decides to control the price of global oil ... it's a fact of life... just keep telling yourself Keystone will have an effect on the global market..

Oil prices plummet as OPEC decides against output cut

Have a good T-day .

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as....

As long as the sun sets and the wind is variable.

Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass.

Great idea, First World countries don't need good energy sources, they can burn weeds and manure.

Your ignorance on the issues of renewable energy is amazing.

"Molten salt can be employed as a thermal energy storage method to retain
thermal energy collected by a solar tower or solar trough so that it can be used to generate electricity in bad weather or at night."

Thermal energy storage - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Open you mind.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

I am in the building industry. I got a degree in architecture in 1976. When I graduated solar was "on the cusp" of being the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Forgive me if I don't share your enthusiasm.

Mark

You see the glass half full, or maybe empty. I don't. Did you read the link I posted, things have changed a lot since 1976. In the SF Bay Area parking lots in schools and many municipal buildings are now covered with solar panels, roofs in many municipal building and even privately owned homes and businesses are going solar. Windmills were in use in San Francisco at the turn of the century despite much skepticism, yet were instrumental in the building of Golden Gate Park:

San Francisco s Historic Dutch Windmill

At the turn of this century, San Francisco's coast was lined with barren, windblown sand dunes. Almost no plants could survive the shifting, inhospitable environment. There was no evidence that this desolate wasteland would one day be home to the spectacular gardens and fields of Golden Gate Park. The essential problem facing the early developers of the park was how to provide the enormous quantities of water necessary to transform the dunes into a lush paradise.
Initially, the Spring Valley Water Company supplied water for the development of the park. But the water they supplied was expensive; $1,050 per month for enough water to irrigate only 75 acres, and so the city pursued alternative sources of fresh water. Wells were drilled along the San Francisco's coast as early as 1873, indicating that there was fresh water which could be tapped very near the ocean. A proposal was made to build a windmill right on the dunes and to use the prevailing westernly winds to pump water from beneath the dunes and into the park.

A lot of skepticism surrounded the decision to built a windmill along San Francisco's coastline. People doubted that an extensive source of fresh water could be found so close to the ocean. There were also concerns that the proposed windmill would not provide enough force to successfully pump water. Despite the doubts, construction of the windmill was ordered in 1902. Commisioners Speckle, Lloyd, and Aaron were appointed by Schmitz (John McLaren, superintendent of the Golden Gate Park) to oversee the construction of the windmill, at a cost not to exceed $14,000. Fulton Engineering Company won the bid to supply the necessry ironwork, at a price of $3100 and the Pope & Talbot Lumber Co. donated Oregon Pine spars. Construction of the Dutch Windmill was completed prior to June 30th, 1902, at a total cost of $16,000.

I will admit, solar energy is much more reliable in California. I live in Wisconsin. And, most people don't live in solar friendly confines like California.

I always fall back to reality. I look around, and I see that the people that believe like you do really don't back their words with actions. If renewables are so incredible, you would have them installed on your own house.

Do you?

Mark

When we had our above ground pool, I used black PVC which we attached to the roof on our shed and ran from the pool through the filter to the pool. The water coming out was too hot to touch.

We looked into solar for our roof when we replaced it several years ago. At that time there were few providers and the cost was prohibitive. Today there are many providers and the costs have gone down. If we had to re roof today we would likely do so. Our home is fully insulated, there was none when it was built, and we have replaced all the windows with tinted and double pained glass and use a Prius for our get about vehicle. We are not fanatics, but recycle and do what we can.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I want a safe, secure source of oil.
Canada is better than the Middle East.
Tell me how stopping Keystone helps.

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as....

As long as the sun sets and the wind is variable.

Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass.

Great idea, First World countries don't need good energy sources, they can burn weeds and manure.

Your ignorance on the issues of renewable energy is amazing.

"Molten salt can be employed as a thermal energy storage method to retain
thermal energy collected by a solar tower or solar trough so that it can be used to generate electricity in bad weather or at night."

Thermal energy storage - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Open you mind.

Yeah, let me know when a molten salt solar plant is up and running as cheaply as natural gas or coal.

 

[westwall]

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

I am in the building industry. I got a degree in architecture in 1976. When I graduated solar was "on the cusp" of being the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Forgive me if I don't share your enthusiasm.

Mark

You see the glass half full, or maybe empty. I don't. Did you read the link I posted, things have changed a lot since 1976. In the SF Bay Area parking lots in schools and many municipal buildings are now covered with solar panels, roofs in many municipal building and even privately owned homes and businesses are going solar. Windmills were in use in San Francisco at the turn of the century despite much skepticism, yet were instrumental in the building of Golden Gate Park:

San Francisco s Historic Dutch Windmill

At the turn of this century, San Francisco's coast was lined with barren, windblown sand dunes. Almost no plants could survive the shifting, inhospitable environment. There was no evidence that this desolate wasteland would one day be home to the spectacular gardens and fields of Golden Gate Park. The essential problem facing the early developers of the park was how to provide the enormous quantities of water necessary to transform the dunes into a lush paradise.
Initially, the Spring Valley Water Company supplied water for the development of the park. But the water they supplied was expensive; $1,050 per month for enough water to irrigate only 75 acres, and so the city pursued alternative sources of fresh water. Wells were drilled along the San Francisco's coast as early as 1873, indicating that there was fresh water which could be tapped very near the ocean. A proposal was made to build a windmill right on the dunes and to use the prevailing westernly winds to pump water from beneath the dunes and into the park.

A lot of skepticism surrounded the decision to built a windmill along San Francisco's coastline. People doubted that an extensive source of fresh water could be found so close to the ocean. There were also concerns that the proposed windmill would not provide enough force to successfully pump water. Despite the doubts, construction of the windmill was ordered in 1902. Commisioners Speckle, Lloyd, and Aaron were appointed by Schmitz (John McLaren, superintendent of the Golden Gate Park) to oversee the construction of the windmill, at a cost not to exceed $14,000. Fulton Engineering Company won the bid to supply the necessry ironwork, at a price of $3100 and the Pope & Talbot Lumber Co. donated Oregon Pine spars. Construction of the Dutch Windmill was completed prior to June 30th, 1902, at a total cost of $16,000.

I will admit, solar energy is much more reliable in California. I live in Wisconsin. And, most people don't live in solar friendly confines like California.

I always fall back to reality. I look around, and I see that the people that believe like you do really don't back their words with actions. If renewables are so incredible, you would have them installed on your own house.

Do you?

Mark

Even in California solar isn't living up to expectations.

"The Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System, owned by Google, NRG Energy and BrightSource Energy, uses nearly 175,000 heliostats for this project in California.
It’s going to put about 1,000 people to work building a state-of-the-art facility. And when it’s complete, it will turn sunlight into the energy that will power up to 140,000 homes, pointed out, Obama about Ivanpah in a weekly address in Oct. 2010.
Since going operational in February, Ivanpah could not meet its own expectations, generating only 254,000 megawatt-hours of power."


Greentechlead.com News on Green technologies Wind Solar Smart Grid Sustainability Biofuel Google pursuing grant for ailing Ivanpah solar plant

VIDEO Ivanpah solar power plant not generating as much power as expected - Electric Light Power

 

[Wry Catcher]

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

I am in the building industry. I got a degree in architecture in 1976. When I graduated solar was "on the cusp" of being the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Forgive me if I don't share your enthusiasm.

Mark

You see the glass half full, or maybe empty. I don't. Did you read the link I posted, things have changed a lot since 1976. In the SF Bay Area parking lots in schools and many municipal buildings are now covered with solar panels, roofs in many municipal building and even privately owned homes and businesses are going solar. Windmills were in use in San Francisco at the turn of the century despite much skepticism, yet were instrumental in the building of Golden Gate Park:

San Francisco s Historic Dutch Windmill

At the turn of this century, San Francisco's coast was lined with barren, windblown sand dunes. Almost no plants could survive the shifting, inhospitable environment. There was no evidence that this desolate wasteland would one day be home to the spectacular gardens and fields of Golden Gate Park. The essential problem facing the early developers of the park was how to provide the enormous quantities of water necessary to transform the dunes into a lush paradise.
Initially, the Spring Valley Water Company supplied water for the development of the park. But the water they supplied was expensive; $1,050 per month for enough water to irrigate only 75 acres, and so the city pursued alternative sources of fresh water. Wells were drilled along the San Francisco's coast as early as 1873, indicating that there was fresh water which could be tapped very near the ocean. A proposal was made to build a windmill right on the dunes and to use the prevailing westernly winds to pump water from beneath the dunes and into the park.

A lot of skepticism surrounded the decision to built a windmill along San Francisco's coastline. People doubted that an extensive source of fresh water could be found so close to the ocean. There were also concerns that the proposed windmill would not provide enough force to successfully pump water. Despite the doubts, construction of the windmill was ordered in 1902. Commisioners Speckle, Lloyd, and Aaron were appointed by Schmitz (John McLaren, superintendent of the Golden Gate Park) to oversee the construction of the windmill, at a cost not to exceed $14,000. Fulton Engineering Company won the bid to supply the necessry ironwork, at a price of $3100 and the Pope & Talbot Lumber Co. donated Oregon Pine spars. Construction of the Dutch Windmill was completed prior to June 30th, 1902, at a total cost of $16,000.

I will admit, solar energy is much more reliable in California. I live in Wisconsin. And, most people don't live in solar friendly confines like California.

I always fall back to reality. I look around, and I see that the people that believe like you do really don't back their words with actions. If renewables are so incredible, you would have them installed on your own house.

Do you?

Mark

BTW, my wife was born in Racine and raised in Thiensville. She has two sisters, one lives in Florida, one in Texas and my wife with me in the SF Bay Area.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I want clean air, clean water and unpolluted soil. Tell me how oil sands are clean, coal is clean and solar and renewable sources are bad.

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as....

As long as the sun sets and the wind is variable.

Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass.

Great idea, First World countries don't need good energy sources, they can burn weeds and manure.

Your ignorance on the issues of renewable energy is amazing.

"Molten salt can be employed as a thermal energy storage method to retain
thermal energy collected by a solar tower or solar trough so that it can be used to generate electricity in bad weather or at night."

Thermal energy storage - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Open you mind.

Yeah, let me know when a molten salt solar plant is up and running as cheaply as natural gas or coal.

I can see your great grandfather standing on the side of a dirt road as a horseless carriage went by, saying exactly that; probably yelling, "get a horse".

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as....

As long as the sun sets and the wind is variable.

Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass.

Great idea, First World countries don't need good energy sources, they can burn weeds and manure.

Your ignorance on the issues of renewable energy is amazing.

"Molten salt can be employed as a thermal energy storage method to retain
thermal energy collected by a solar tower or solar trough so that it can be used to generate electricity in bad weather or at night."

Thermal energy storage - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Open you mind.

Yeah, let me know when a molten salt solar plant is up and running as cheaply as natural gas or coal.

I can see your great grandfather standing on the side of a dirt road as a horseless carriage went by, saying exactly that; probably yelling, "get a horse".

I can see your great grandkids, living in the dark, eating cold food, cursing "green energy" and the idiots who pushed it.

 

[jasonnfree]

saftey isn't my concern ... that obstacle belongs to healthdolt.

my BIGGEST problem is CONGRESS giving away American citizens hard earned land to another Country ... anyone who supports Keystone supports giving away another mans hard earned property to a French Oil Company.

Screw that, Screw Keystone. Screw Congress.

How do you figure? The company building the pipeline has to pay for the use of the land, and furthermore, they are only buying the right-of-way. Farmers and ranchers will still be able to farm and ranch on the land after the pipeline is laid and buried.

well, you're an idiot ..

Keystone XL Eminent Domain Map - Keystone Mapping ProjectKeystone Mapping Project

In other words, you just made an ass of yourself. Under Eminent domain, the company still has to pay for any land it takes. Furthermore, it is only obtaining a right-of-way. It's not taking the surface rights to the land.

and if I don't want to sell any of my land WTF then?

idiot RW's were laying on bridges pointing assault rifles at federal agents over some asshat rancher who didn't even on the land being taken over by the Feds that wasn't being taken over because the FEDS OWNED THE DAMN LAND..


FUCKING POS RW HYPOCRITES ..

Hmm. You do realize that almost all of our infrastructure is built using eminent domain laws? I have personally been involved in the seizing of my families property for highway right of way.

Mark

You're right, but the eminent domained land used for highways and other infrastructure are used for Americans. This Keystone pipeline carries a foreign product destined for export to other countries after being refined in gulf coast refineries. The refining also creates more air pollution for an area that's already known as cancer alley. So anyway, I ask how much good will this pipeline help USA.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Even in California solar isn't living up to expectations.

"The Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System, owned by Google, NRG Energy and BrightSource Energy, uses nearly 175,000 heliostats for this project in California.
It’s going to put about 1,000 people to work building a state-of-the-art facility. And when it’s complete, it will turn sunlight into the energy that will power up to 140,000 homes, pointed out, Obama about Ivanpah in a weekly address in Oct. 2010.
Since going operational in February, Ivanpah could not meet its own expectations, generating only 254,000 megawatt-hours of power."


Greentechlead.com News on Green technologies Wind Solar Smart Grid Sustainability Biofuel Google pursuing grant for ailing Ivanpah solar plant

VIDEO Ivanpah solar power plant not generating as much power as expected - Electric Light Power

So I guess they don't need molten salt to store any extra energy?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How do you figure? The company building the pipeline has to pay for the use of the land, and furthermore, they are only buying the right-of-way. Farmers and ranchers will still be able to farm and ranch on the land after the pipeline is laid and buried.

well, you're an idiot ..

Keystone XL Eminent Domain Map - Keystone Mapping ProjectKeystone Mapping Project

In other words, you just made an ass of yourself. Under Eminent domain, the company still has to pay for any land it takes. Furthermore, it is only obtaining a right-of-way. It's not taking the surface rights to the land.

and if I don't want to sell any of my land WTF then?

idiot RW's were laying on bridges pointing assault rifles at federal agents over some asshat rancher who didn't even on the land being taken over by the Feds that wasn't being taken over because the FEDS OWNED THE DAMN LAND..


FUCKING POS RW HYPOCRITES ..

Hmm. You do realize that almost all of our infrastructure is built using eminent domain laws? I have personally been involved in the seizing of my families property for highway right of way.

Mark

You're right, but the eminent domained land used for highways and other infrastructure are used for Americans. This Keystone pipeline carries a foreign product destined for export to other countries after being refined in gulf coast refineries. The refining also creates more air pollution for an area that's already known as cancer alley. So anyway, I ask how much good will this pipeline help USA.

Why would this oil be exported if we're still importing heavy crude from Venezuela?

 

[80zephyr]

Solar and renewable are not efficient enough to meet our power needs at this time. It is as simple as that.

Mark

Solar and wind are viable sources of energy, but will never be developed to their full potential as long as big coal and big oil continued to fund members of Congress and the media, with TV and print ads such as "Chevron Cares" and Exxon Mobil Cares invests in the gulf. Ironically, both and others are investing in renewable and green energy sources but still enjoy the billions of dollars they earn every quarter from oil.

Let's build pipelines and canals, hell Rome did it 2000 years ago, and move water from the wet to the dry regions of our country. Doing so will produce jobs, recreation activities, and grow Switchgrass. See:

Biofuels from Switchgrass Greener Energy Pastures

I am in the building industry. I got a degree in architecture in 1976. When I graduated solar was "on the cusp" of being the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Forgive me if I don't share your enthusiasm.

Mark

You see the glass half full, or maybe empty. I don't. Did you read the link I posted, things have changed a lot since 1976. In the SF Bay Area parking lots in schools and many municipal buildings are now covered with solar panels, roofs in many municipal building and even privately owned homes and businesses are going solar. Windmills were in use in San Francisco at the turn of the century despite much skepticism, yet were instrumental in the building of Golden Gate Park:

San Francisco s Historic Dutch Windmill

At the turn of this century, San Francisco's coast was lined with barren, windblown sand dunes. Almost no plants could survive the shifting, inhospitable environment. There was no evidence that this desolate wasteland would one day be home to the spectacular gardens and fields of Golden Gate Park. The essential problem facing the early developers of the park was how to provide the enormous quantities of water necessary to transform the dunes into a lush paradise.
Initially, the Spring Valley Water Company supplied water for the development of the park. But the water they supplied was expensive; $1,050 per month for enough water to irrigate only 75 acres, and so the city pursued alternative sources of fresh water. Wells were drilled along the San Francisco's coast as early as 1873, indicating that there was fresh water which could be tapped very near the ocean. A proposal was made to build a windmill right on the dunes and to use the prevailing westernly winds to pump water from beneath the dunes and into the park.

A lot of skepticism surrounded the decision to built a windmill along San Francisco's coastline. People doubted that an extensive source of fresh water could be found so close to the ocean. There were also concerns that the proposed windmill would not provide enough force to successfully pump water. Despite the doubts, construction of the windmill was ordered in 1902. Commisioners Speckle, Lloyd, and Aaron were appointed by Schmitz (John McLaren, superintendent of the Golden Gate Park) to oversee the construction of the windmill, at a cost not to exceed $14,000. Fulton Engineering Company won the bid to supply the necessry ironwork, at a price of $3100 and the Pope & Talbot Lumber Co. donated Oregon Pine spars. Construction of the Dutch Windmill was completed prior to June 30th, 1902, at a total cost of $16,000.

I will admit, solar energy is much more reliable in California. I live in Wisconsin. And, most people don't live in solar friendly confines like California.

I always fall back to reality. I look around, and I see that the people that believe like you do really don't back their words with actions. If renewables are so incredible, you would have them installed on your own house.

Do you?

Mark

BTW, my wife was born in Racine and raised in Thiensville. She has two sisters, one lives in Florida, one in Texas and my wife with me in the SF Bay Area.

Ahh, you married a Wisconsinite. Lucky man.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

How do you figure? The company building the pipeline has to pay for the use of the land, and furthermore, they are only buying the right-of-way. Farmers and ranchers will still be able to farm and ranch on the land after the pipeline is laid and buried.

well, you're an idiot ..

Keystone XL Eminent Domain Map - Keystone Mapping ProjectKeystone Mapping Project

In other words, you just made an ass of yourself. Under Eminent domain, the company still has to pay for any land it takes. Furthermore, it is only obtaining a right-of-way. It's not taking the surface rights to the land.

and if I don't want to sell any of my land WTF then?

idiot RW's were laying on bridges pointing assault rifles at federal agents over some asshat rancher who didn't even on the land being taken over by the Feds that wasn't being taken over because the FEDS OWNED THE DAMN LAND..


FUCKING POS RW HYPOCRITES ..

Hmm. You do realize that almost all of our infrastructure is built using eminent domain laws? I have personally been involved in the seizing of my families property for highway right of way.

Mark

You're right, but the eminent domained land used for highways and other infrastructure are used for Americans. This Keystone pipeline carries a foreign product destined for export to other countries after being refined in gulf coast refineries. The refining also creates more air pollution for an area that's already known as cancer alley. So anyway, I ask how much good will this pipeline help USA.

You can thank the liberal members of the Supreme Court for a private firm having the ability to confiscate land for a private good.

As to your question, it has been stated repeatedly that the pipeline is the SAFEST source of transportation for that oil. They are not gonna stop pumping and shipping it. We might as well ship it in the safest possible manner.

Mark

 

[jasonnfree]

well, you're an idiot ..

Keystone XL Eminent Domain Map - Keystone Mapping ProjectKeystone Mapping Project

In other words, you just made an ass of yourself. Under Eminent domain, the company still has to pay for any land it takes. Furthermore, it is only obtaining a right-of-way. It's not taking the surface rights to the land.

and if I don't want to sell any of my land WTF then?

idiot RW's were laying on bridges pointing assault rifles at federal agents over some asshat rancher who didn't even on the land being taken over by the Feds that wasn't being taken over because the FEDS OWNED THE DAMN LAND..


FUCKING POS RW HYPOCRITES ..

Hmm. You do realize that almost all of our infrastructure is built using eminent domain laws? I have personally been involved in the seizing of my families property for highway right of way.

Mark

You're right, but the eminent domained land used for highways and other infrastructure are used for Americans. This Keystone pipeline carries a foreign product destined for export to other countries after being refined in gulf coast refineries. The refining also creates more air pollution for an area that's already known as cancer alley. So anyway, I ask how much good will this pipeline help USA.

You can thank the liberal members of the Supreme Court for a private firm having the ability to confiscate land for a private good.

As to your question, it has been stated repeatedly that the pipeline is the SAFEST source of transportation for that oil. They are not gonna stop pumping and shipping it. We might as well ship it in the safest possible manner.

Mark

However, this is land confiscated for the benefit of a foreign country. Let Canada ship it across it's territories. I really don't see how the pipeline benefits this country.

 

[80zephyr]

In other words, you just made an ass of yourself. Under Eminent domain, the company still has to pay for any land it takes. Furthermore, it is only obtaining a right-of-way. It's not taking the surface rights to the land.

and if I don't want to sell any of my land WTF then?

idiot RW's were laying on bridges pointing assault rifles at federal agents over some asshat rancher who didn't even on the land being taken over by the Feds that wasn't being taken over because the FEDS OWNED THE DAMN LAND..


FUCKING POS RW HYPOCRITES ..

Hmm. You do realize that almost all of our infrastructure is built using eminent domain laws? I have personally been involved in the seizing of my families property for highway right of way.

Mark

You're right, but the eminent domained land used for highways and other infrastructure are used for Americans. This Keystone pipeline carries a foreign product destined for export to other countries after being refined in gulf coast refineries. The refining also creates more air pollution for an area that's already known as cancer alley. So anyway, I ask how much good will this pipeline help USA.

You can thank the liberal members of the Supreme Court for a private firm having the ability to confiscate land for a private good.

As to your question, it has been stated repeatedly that the pipeline is the SAFEST source of transportation for that oil. They are not gonna stop pumping and shipping it. We might as well ship it in the safest possible manner.

Mark

However, this is land confiscated for the benefit of a foreign country. Let Canada ship it across it's territories. I really don't see how the pipeline benefits this country.

If it increases the tax base, it now does. Thanks to liberal jurists.

Mark

 

[jasonnfree]

well, you're an idiot ..

Keystone XL Eminent Domain Map - Keystone Mapping ProjectKeystone Mapping Project

In other words, you just made an ass of yourself. Under Eminent domain, the company still has to pay for any land it takes. Furthermore, it is only obtaining a right-of-way. It's not taking the surface rights to the land.

and if I don't want to sell any of my land WTF then?

idiot RW's were laying on bridges pointing assault rifles at federal agents over some asshat rancher who didn't even on the land being taken over by the Feds that wasn't being taken over because the FEDS OWNED THE DAMN LAND..


FUCKING POS RW HYPOCRITES ..

Hmm. You do realize that almost all of our infrastructure is built using eminent domain laws? I have personally been involved in the seizing of my families property for highway right of way.

Mark

You're right, but the eminent domained land used for highways and other infrastructure are used for Americans. This Keystone pipeline carries a foreign product destined for export to other countries after being refined in gulf coast refineries. The refining also creates more air pollution for an area that's already known as cancer alley. So anyway, I ask how much good will this pipeline help USA.

Why would this oil be exported if we're still importing heavy crude from Venezuela?

Probably to refine here and send to other countries. From what I read, much of the refined tar sand product is destined to go on the world market.

 

[jasonnfree]

and if I don't want to sell any of my land WTF then?

idiot RW's were laying on bridges pointing assault rifles at federal agents over some asshat rancher who didn't even on the land being taken over by the Feds that wasn't being taken over because the FEDS OWNED THE DAMN LAND..


FUCKING POS RW HYPOCRITES ..

Hmm. You do realize that almost all of our infrastructure is built using eminent domain laws? I have personally been involved in the seizing of my families property for highway right of way.

Mark

You're right, but the eminent domained land used for highways and other infrastructure are used for Americans. This Keystone pipeline carries a foreign product destined for export to other countries after being refined in gulf coast refineries. The refining also creates more air pollution for an area that's already known as cancer alley. So anyway, I ask how much good will this pipeline help USA.

You can thank the liberal members of the Supreme Court for a private firm having the ability to confiscate land for a private good.

As to your question, it has been stated repeatedly that the pipeline is the SAFEST source of transportation for that oil. They are not gonna stop pumping and shipping it. We might as well ship it in the safest possible manner.

Mark

However, this is land confiscated for the benefit of a foreign country. Let Canada ship it across it's territories. I really don't see how the pipeline benefits this country.

If it increases the tax base, it now does. Thanks to liberal jurists.

Mark

Sorry, not understanding your question. If what increases. Why all this liberal stuff in everything you write? Not having a good day?

 

[tinydancer]

In other words, you just made an ass of yourself. Under Eminent domain, the company still has to pay for any land it takes. Furthermore, it is only obtaining a right-of-way. It's not taking the surface rights to the land.

and if I don't want to sell any of my land WTF then?

idiot RW's were laying on bridges pointing assault rifles at federal agents over some asshat rancher who didn't even on the land being taken over by the Feds that wasn't being taken over because the FEDS OWNED THE DAMN LAND..


FUCKING POS RW HYPOCRITES ..

Hmm. You do realize that almost all of our infrastructure is built using eminent domain laws? I have personally been involved in the seizing of my families property for highway right of way.

Mark

You're right, but the eminent domained land used for highways and other infrastructure are used for Americans. This Keystone pipeline carries a foreign product destined for export to other countries after being refined in gulf coast refineries. The refining also creates more air pollution for an area that's already known as cancer alley. So anyway, I ask how much good will this pipeline help USA.

Why would this oil be exported if we're still importing heavy crude from Venezuela?

Probably to refine here and send to other countries. From what I read, much of the refined tar sand product is destined to go on the world market.

Well you're reading lies then. Think about it. You only produce 9 million barrels of oil a day.

You use 18 million barrels a day. Consequently you rely on imports to fill the demand. The EIA your very own government agency has pointed out that minimum 80% of crude that is refined remains for domestic usage.

And a quick note, but an important one.Keystone is not an oil producer. TransCanada neither drills or refines oil. They are simply a delivery mechanism. And consequently have no say whatsoever what your American refineries do with the crude. They don't own it.

Now as to Keystone XL. You already have Keystone I and Keystone II to Illinois and Oklahoma. delivering Canadian crude.The southern leg of XL has been completed and crude from Canada and Oklahoma reserves have been flowing to Nederland Texas since January 2014.

And whether or not your left wing whacko extremists can keep holding up the northern portion of XL that would also deliver crude from North Dakota's Bakken fields to the Gulf , suppliers have found alternate routes that cross America anyway.

Keystone XL has just been one huge political game. Nothing to do with the environment at all.

So pick your poison. I believe pipelines are the safest as compared to rail or truck but to each his own.

No matter what the crude is wanted and is coming to the Gulf. I have no doubt that Keystone will still be built because it is the most cost efficient way of shipping crude.

"
Delays of the Keystone XL pipeline are providing little obstacle to Western Canadian oil producers getting their crude to the U.S. Gulf Coast, with shipments set to more than double next year.

The volume of Canadian crude processed at Gulf Coast refineries could climb to more than 400,000 barrels a day in 2015 from 208,000 in August, according to Jackie Forrest, vice president of Calgary-based ARC Financial Corp.

The increase comes as Enbridge Inc.’s Flanagan South and an expanded Seaway pipeline raise their capacity to ship oil by as much as 450,000 barrels a day. Canadian exports to the Gulf rose 83 per cent in the past four years.

The expansion shows Canadians are finding alternative entry points into the U.S. while the Keystone saga drags on. In the latest chapter, a Democratic senator and a Republican representative are seeking votes in their chambers to set the project in motion.

The two are squaring off in a runoff election for a Senate seat from Louisiana, a state where support for the project is strong.

“Keystone is kind of old news,” Sandy Fielden, director of energy analytics at Austin, Texas-based consulting company RBN Energy, said Nov. 12 in an e-mail. “Producers have moved on and are looking for new capacity from other pipelines.”

TransCanada Corp.’s Keystone XL, which would transport Alberta’s heavy oil sands crude to refineries on the Gulf, has been held up for six years, awaiting Obama administration approval.

Energy companies in Canada, including Suncor Energy Inc., Imperial Oil Ltd. and Canadian Natural Resources Ltd., produce crude from thick oil sands in remote areas of northern Alberta.

The companies want pipelines and rail networks expanded so they can export more of their product, which has sold for an average $20-a-barrel discount to the U.S. benchmark West Texas Intermediate over the past year.

Canada sent about 54,000 barrels a day to the U.S. Gulf by rail in the first half of 2014, said Forrest at Arc Financial, which is a private equity management company that invests in energy companies"

More at link:

Western Canada s oil exports to U.S. accelerate as Keystone XL becomes old news

 

[SwimExpert]

Hey we are not making you buy our oil. Your companies want it and it's coming to you by hook or by crook. Rail imports have surged like crazy.

Then there's no issue. Next!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In other words, you just made an ass of yourself. Under Eminent domain, the company still has to pay for any land it takes. Furthermore, it is only obtaining a right-of-way. It's not taking the surface rights to the land.

and if I don't want to sell any of my land WTF then?

idiot RW's were laying on bridges pointing assault rifles at federal agents over some asshat rancher who didn't even on the land being taken over by the Feds that wasn't being taken over because the FEDS OWNED THE DAMN LAND..


FUCKING POS RW HYPOCRITES ..

Hmm. You do realize that almost all of our infrastructure is built using eminent domain laws? I have personally been involved in the seizing of my families property for highway right of way.

Mark

You're right, but the eminent domained land used for highways and other infrastructure are used for Americans. This Keystone pipeline carries a foreign product destined for export to other countries after being refined in gulf coast refineries. The refining also creates more air pollution for an area that's already known as cancer alley. So anyway, I ask how much good will this pipeline help USA.

You can thank the liberal members of the Supreme Court for a private firm having the ability to confiscate land for a private good.

As to your question, it has been stated repeatedly that the pipeline is the SAFEST source of transportation for that oil. They are not gonna stop pumping and shipping it. We might as well ship it in the safest possible manner.

Mark

However, this is land confiscated for the benefit of a foreign country. Let Canada ship it across it's territories. I really don't see how the pipeline benefits this country.

I remember an American pipeline that travels across Canadian territory.
I wonder if they whined like you when it was built?