14 and 17 year old injured in shooting, why can't guns be banned?

[harmonica]

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

You are using absolute numbers

If you want to be taken seriously use murders per 100000

The murder rate in Chicago for 2015 was 18.6 per 100000
The murder rate in the entire state of New Hampshire with its extremely lax gun laws in 2015 was less than 1 per 100000

Explain that.

there it is again! population and population density...and state vs Chicago...there is no comparison...not even close ..so your hypothesis is invalid
NH density 147 psm ..pop. 1,300,000
Chi density 11, 000. psm . pop. 2,700,000 147 vs 11 thousand
the whole STATE of NH population is half of Chicago
please give me a city/state with around the same pop. and same/more dense
I gave you LA, NYC, and CHi vs STL
..no, you don't have the same murder rate Chi vs Wyoming, Nevada, etc...it's not because of more guns--but the density and total of the population
you are trying to compare--so the factors have to be comparable for the comparison to be valid

 

[RetiredGySgt]

How do you propose enforcing firearm laws on CRIMINALS? How will you get the weapons they have from them? How again does denying law abiding citizens the right to possess own and carry firearms effect the criminals that do so ILLEGALLY?

 

[harmonica]

How do you propose enforcing firearm laws on CRIMINALS? How will you get the weapons they have from them? How again does denying law abiding citizens the right to possess own and carry firearms effect the criminals that do so ILLEGALLY?

tell me how do the criminals get guns?
if you want a gun you can have it!! but is yours permanently until you die--there--you can have your gun, no rights violated, no infringement, etc....
no gifting, etc....you can have a gun still
it must be registered
locked up when not in use
eventually the proliferation will go down
we want to make it harder for criminals to get guns, yes?....
my friend says he just keeps his guns lying around....remember the NYork prisoners' escape? they got guns from a vacant house! ..these are not tools like a hammer, saw, drill--but the most efficient DESIGNED to kill, hand held wepaons
Columbine shooters got guns from a friend who should;ve been put in jail--but wasn't! harsher laws for strawmen

 

[Skull Pilot]

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

You are using absolute numbers

If you want to be taken seriously use murders per 100000

The murder rate in Chicago for 2015 was 18.6 per 100000
The murder rate in the entire state of New Hampshire with its extremely lax gun laws in 2015 was less than 1 per 100000

Explain that.

there it is again! population and population density...and state vs Chicago...there is no comparison...not even close ..so your hypothesis is invalid
NH density 147 psm ..pop. 1,300,000
Chi density 11, 000. psm . pop. 2,700,000 147 vs 11 thousand
the whole STATE of NH population is half of Chicago
please give me a city/state with around the same pop. and same/more dense
I gave you LA, NYC, and CHi vs STL
..no, you don't have the same murder rate Chi vs Wyoming, Nevada, etc...it's not because of more guns--but the density and total of the population
you are trying to compare--so the factors have to be comparable for the comparison to be valid

You adjust for population density by using a ratio which is why murders per 100000 people is a more accurate way to compare stats.

The murder rate for the entire state of Illinois in 2015 was 5.8 per 100000 still more than 5 times that of NH which has some of the most lax gun laws in the nation.

So tell me again how gun laws lower the murder rate.

 

[Skull Pilot]

How do you propose enforcing firearm laws on CRIMINALS? How will you get the weapons they have from them? How again does denying law abiding citizens the right to possess own and carry firearms effect the criminals that do so ILLEGALLY?

He doesn't propose to do anything to the criminals because he and his ilk actually believe that law abiding people are responsible for the acts of criminals

 

[harmonica]

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

You are using absolute numbers

If you want to be taken seriously use murders per 100000

The murder rate in Chicago for 2015 was 18.6 per 100000
The murder rate in the entire state of New Hampshire with its extremely lax gun laws in 2015 was less than 1 per 100000

Explain that.

there it is again! population and population density...and state vs Chicago...there is no comparison...not even close ..so your hypothesis is invalid
NH density 147 psm ..pop. 1,300,000
Chi density 11, 000. psm . pop. 2,700,000 147 vs 11 thousand
the whole STATE of NH population is half of Chicago
please give me a city/state with around the same pop. and same/more dense
I gave you LA, NYC, and CHi vs STL
..no, you don't have the same murder rate Chi vs Wyoming, Nevada, etc...it's not because of more guns--but the density and total of the population
you are trying to compare--so the factors have to be comparable for the comparison to be valid

You adjust for population density by using a ratio which is why murders per 100000 people is a more accurate way to compare stats.

The murder rate for the entire state of Illinois in 2015 was 5.8 per 100000 still more than 5 times that of NH which has some of the most lax gun laws in the nation.

So tell me again how gun laws lower the murder rate.

you can't compare NH to Chicago or Ill....the largest city in NH has only 110, 000--it is a ridiculous and unscientific comparison
I gave you the murder rates for gun-controlled NYC, LA, and Chicago compared to pro-gun STL
pro-gun STL is the murder capital- of the US---not NYC, CHi, or LA -...
you people probably freaked out when you saw a pro-gun city as the murder capital of the US, and not NYC, LA, or CHi--as you thought

 

[Skull Pilot]

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

You are using absolute numbers

If you want to be taken seriously use murders per 100000

The murder rate in Chicago for 2015 was 18.6 per 100000
The murder rate in the entire state of New Hampshire with its extremely lax gun laws in 2015 was less than 1 per 100000

Explain that.

there it is again! population and population density...and state vs Chicago...there is no comparison...not even close ..so your hypothesis is invalid
NH density 147 psm ..pop. 1,300,000
Chi density 11, 000. psm . pop. 2,700,000 147 vs 11 thousand
the whole STATE of NH population is half of Chicago
please give me a city/state with around the same pop. and same/more dense
I gave you LA, NYC, and CHi vs STL
..no, you don't have the same murder rate Chi vs Wyoming, Nevada, etc...it's not because of more guns--but the density and total of the population
you are trying to compare--so the factors have to be comparable for the comparison to be valid

You adjust for population density by using a ratio which is why murders per 100000 people is a more accurate way to compare stats.

The murder rate for the entire state of Illinois in 2015 was 5.8 per 100000 still more than 5 times that of NH which has some of the most lax gun laws in the nation.

So tell me again how gun laws lower the murder rate.

you can't compare NH to Chicago or Ill....the largest city in NH has only 110, 000--it is a ridiculous and unscientific comparison
I gave you the murder rates for gun-controlled NYC, LA, and Chicago compared to pro-gun STL
pro-gun STL is the murder capital- of the US---not NYC, CHi, or LA -...
you people probably freaked out when you saw a pro-gun city as the murder capital of the US, and not NYC, LA, or CHi--as you thought

I'm NOT comparing NH to Chicago I am comparing the number of murders per 100000 people in different areas of the country.

Ratios are used to adjust for the population differences. Saying that Illinois has more murders than New Hampshire is utterly meaningless but comparing the ratio of murders to population takes into account the population differences.

If gun laws actually decreased murder rates then Illinois would have a lower murder rate per 100000 than New Hampshire.

Utah has the most lax gun laws in the country and their murder rate in 2015 was 1.8 per 100000
California has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation and in 2015 its murder rate was 4.8 per 100000

So tell me again how strict gun laws lower the murder rate

 

[2aguy]

NY city, LA, and Chicago with strict gun laws have a murder rate[ per capita ] far lower than very pro-gun St Louis
NYC much lower
Chicago was well below 50%
those states have lower murder rate than pro-gun Missouri
those cities have a much denser population than STL
..this is crosschecked by STL rated higher on most dangerous cities lists
in fact, STL is the murder capital
St. Louis named murder capital of America – Report
on many comment sites, I see the pro-gunners cite Chicago as a gun law failure--but as you can see in these undeniable stats--it is a huge success compared to very pro-gun STL
Chi murders 2015 - 468 population 2,700,000
NYc murders 2015 328 population 8,500,000
StL murders 2015 188 population 315,000
.....that's well below 50%... a huge difference

and this without equal nationwide gun laws

Sorry..doesn't fly......Chicago has the same gun control as NY and LA...in fact, they don't have gun stores in the city limits....and they have as many gun murders as both LA and NY combined.....

HOuston....comparable in population to Chicago.....in a state with easier gun laws, a city with easy gun laws, and gun stores and gun ranges, on the border with the Mexican narco state..has a lower gun murder number than Chicago.

It is the nature of the criminal...and how the police are handled by the democrats....Chicago is short cops, they hand out less time for gun crimes than NY and LA...and the gangs control a lot of their politicians.....

It isn't law abiding people owning and carrying guns......it is allowing criminals to have a revolving door it's the justice system.

 

[2aguy]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

You do realize that people kill people not firearms, and more frivolous gun laws will not save a single soul… Fact

Violence with firearms is a non-issue in this country… we have much bigger fish to fry.
Get your fucking priorities straight. Jack weed
2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

it is im

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

You do realize that people kill people not firearms, and more frivolous gun laws will not save a single soul… Fact

Violence with firearms is a non-issue in this country… we have much bigger fish to fry.
Get your fucking priorities straight. Jack weed
2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

so we shouldn't try to lower murders??
guns are the MOST efficient hand-held killing device
they are continuously re-designed to kill more efficiently
cars are continuously re-designed for survivability
please see my previous post...gun laws work

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

You are using absolute numbers

If you want to be taken seriously use murders per 100000

The murder rate in Chicago for 2015 was 18.6 per 100000
The murder rate in the entire state of New Hampshire with its extremely lax gun laws in 2015 was less than 1 per 100000

Explain that.

there it is again! population and population density...and state vs Chicago...there is no comparison...not even close ..so your hypothesis is invalid
NH density 147 psm ..pop. 1,300,000
Chi density 11, 000. psm . pop. 2,700,000 147 vs 11 thousand
the whole STATE of NH population is half of Chicago
please give me a city/state with around the same pop. and same/more dense
I gave you LA, NYC, and CHi vs STL
..no, you don't have the same murder rate Chi vs Wyoming, Nevada, etc...it's not because of more guns--but the density and total of the population
you are trying to compare--so the factors have to be comparable for the comparison to be valid

And here you have some more numbers...again, it isn't law abiding people with guns that are the issue.....it is criminals and how the local justice system deals with them.....

Chicago...2016

Population 2.705 million

762

Houston...2016

Population 2.303

302

 

[2aguy]

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

You are using absolute numbers

If you want to be taken seriously use murders per 100000

The murder rate in Chicago for 2015 was 18.6 per 100000
The murder rate in the entire state of New Hampshire with its extremely lax gun laws in 2015 was less than 1 per 100000

Explain that.

there it is again! population and population density...and state vs Chicago...there is no comparison...not even close ..so your hypothesis is invalid
NH density 147 psm ..pop. 1,300,000
Chi density 11, 000. psm . pop. 2,700,000 147 vs 11 thousand
the whole STATE of NH population is half of Chicago
please give me a city/state with around the same pop. and same/more dense
I gave you LA, NYC, and CHi vs STL
..no, you don't have the same murder rate Chi vs Wyoming, Nevada, etc...it's not because of more guns--but the density and total of the population
you are trying to compare--so the factors have to be comparable for the comparison to be valid

And in total...the numbers do not back you up......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN

 

[harmonica]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

You do realize that people kill people not firearms, and more frivolous gun laws will not save a single soul… Fact

Violence with firearms is a non-issue in this country… we have much bigger fish to fry.
Get your fucking priorities straight. Jack weed
2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

it is im

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

You do realize that people kill people not firearms, and more frivolous gun laws will not save a single soul… Fact

Violence with firearms is a non-issue in this country… we have much bigger fish to fry.
Get your fucking priorities straight. Jack weed
2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

so we shouldn't try to lower murders??
guns are the MOST efficient hand-held killing device
they are continuously re-designed to kill more efficiently
cars are continuously re-designed for survivability
please see my previous post...gun laws work

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

You are using absolute numbers

If you want to be taken seriously use murders per 100000

The murder rate in Chicago for 2015 was 18.6 per 100000
The murder rate in the entire state of New Hampshire with its extremely lax gun laws in 2015 was less than 1 per 100000

Explain that.

there it is again! population and population density...and state vs Chicago...there is no comparison...not even close ..so your hypothesis is invalid
NH density 147 psm ..pop. 1,300,000
Chi density 11, 000. psm . pop. 2,700,000 147 vs 11 thousand
the whole STATE of NH population is half of Chicago
please give me a city/state with around the same pop. and same/more dense
I gave you LA, NYC, and CHi vs STL
..no, you don't have the same murder rate Chi vs Wyoming, Nevada, etc...it's not because of more guns--but the density and total of the population
you are trying to compare--so the factors have to be comparable for the comparison to be valid

And here you have some more numbers...again, it isn't law abiding people with guns that are the issue.....it is criminals and how the local justice system deals with them.....

Chicago...2016

Population 2.705 million

762

Houston...2016

Population 2.303

302

England population 53, 000,000 homicides 580
ST louis population 300,000 homicides 188
that's one city vs a country

 

[2aguy]

How do you propose enforcing firearm laws on CRIMINALS? How will you get the weapons they have from them? How again does denying law abiding citizens the right to possess own and carry firearms effect the criminals that do so ILLEGALLY?

tell me how do the criminals get guns?
if you want a gun you can have it!! but is yours permanently until you die--there--you can have your gun, no rights violated, no infringement, etc....
no gifting, etc....you can have a gun still
it must be registered
locked up when not in use
eventually the proliferation will go down
we want to make it harder for criminals to get guns, yes?....
my friend says he just keeps his guns lying around....remember the NYork prisoners' escape? they got guns from a vacant house! ..these are not tools like a hammer, saw, drill--but the most efficient DESIGNED to kill, hand held wepaons
Columbine shooters got guns from a friend who should;ve been put in jail--but wasn't! harsher laws for strawmen

Yes...you have just infringed on gun owners.....guns are protected....they are personal property....

The problem you have...you focus on law abiding gun owners....focus on the criminal....when you catch them, lock them up for 30 years...that is how you stop gun crime.

Registering guns is in violation of the 14th Amendment equal protection....according to Haynes v. United States, criminals do not have to register their illegal guns because it would violate their protection against self incrimination...so you are not going to force normal people to register their guns while letting criminals get away with not registering their guns...and on top of that....

Explain exactly the purpose of registering guns......how do they stop crimes? How do they solve crimes?

As to straw buyers...sure....when someone is trafficking in illegal gun sales, give them 30 years.

 

[2aguy]

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

You are using absolute numbers

If you want to be taken seriously use murders per 100000

The murder rate in Chicago for 2015 was 18.6 per 100000
The murder rate in the entire state of New Hampshire with its extremely lax gun laws in 2015 was less than 1 per 100000

Explain that.

there it is again! population and population density...and state vs Chicago...there is no comparison...not even close ..so your hypothesis is invalid
NH density 147 psm ..pop. 1,300,000
Chi density 11, 000. psm . pop. 2,700,000 147 vs 11 thousand
the whole STATE of NH population is half of Chicago
please give me a city/state with around the same pop. and same/more dense
I gave you LA, NYC, and CHi vs STL
..no, you don't have the same murder rate Chi vs Wyoming, Nevada, etc...it's not because of more guns--but the density and total of the population
you are trying to compare--so the factors have to be comparable for the comparison to be valid

And here is the answer to your question about St. Louis....it isn't law abiding gun owners...it is a justice system that doesn't punish gun criminals...just like we keep telling you guys.....

And the Ferguson Effect........the police giving up on being police....which allows thugs to shoot each other at will.....

And a lack of enough police to do the job...when they aren't afraid to do the job....


Rise in Murders Has St. Louis Debating Why

Jennifer M. Joyce, the city’s circuit attorney, or prosecutor, an elected position, complains that in St. Louis, the illegal possession of a gun is too often “a crime without a consequence,” making it difficult to stop confrontation from turning lethal.

At the same time, deeper social roots of violence such as addiction and unemployment continue unchecked. And city officials also cite what they call a “Ferguson effect,” an increase in crime last year as police officers were diverted to control protests after a white officer shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in the nearby suburb on Aug. 9.

-----------

Now, an overstretched department is forced to pick one neighborhood at a time to flood with officers. Last month, Chief Dotson even asked the state highway patrol if it could lend a dozen men to help watch downtown streets; the agency declined.

The above are the reasons...not law abiding gun owners carrying guns for self defense....

 

[harmonica]

How do you propose enforcing firearm laws on CRIMINALS? How will you get the weapons they have from them? How again does denying law abiding citizens the right to possess own and carry firearms effect the criminals that do so ILLEGALLY?

tell me how do the criminals get guns?
if you want a gun you can have it!! but is yours permanently until you die--there--you can have your gun, no rights violated, no infringement, etc....
no gifting, etc....you can have a gun still
it must be registered
locked up when not in use
eventually the proliferation will go down
we want to make it harder for criminals to get guns, yes?....
my friend says he just keeps his guns lying around....remember the NYork prisoners' escape? they got guns from a vacant house! ..these are not tools like a hammer, saw, drill--but the most efficient DESIGNED to kill, hand held wepaons
Columbine shooters got guns from a friend who should;ve been put in jail--but wasn't! harsher laws for strawmen

Yes...you have just infringed on gun owners.....guns are protected....they are personal property....

The problem you have...you focus on law abiding gun owners....focus on the criminal....when you catch them, lock them up for 30 years...that is how you stop gun crime.

Registering guns is in violation of the 14th Amendment equal protection....according to Haynes v. United States, criminals do not have to register their illegal guns because it would violate their protection against self incrimination...so you are not going to force normal people to register their guns while letting criminals get away with not registering their guns...and on top of that....

Explain exactly the purpose of registering guns......how do they stop crimes? How do they solve crimes?

As to straw buyers...sure....when someone is trafficking in illegal gun sales, give them 30 years.

can't focus on strawmen because no nationwide registration
there will always be criminals
the Constitution writers specifically meant muskets, not semi-autos...that is undeniable

 

[2aguy]

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

You do realize that people kill people not firearms, and more frivolous gun laws will not save a single soul… Fact

Violence with firearms is a non-issue in this country… we have much bigger fish to fry.
Get your fucking priorities straight. Jack weed
2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

it is im

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

You do realize that people kill people not firearms, and more frivolous gun laws will not save a single soul… Fact

Violence with firearms is a non-issue in this country… we have much bigger fish to fry.
Get your fucking priorities straight. Jack weed
2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

so we shouldn't try to lower murders??
guns are the MOST efficient hand-held killing device
they are continuously re-designed to kill more efficiently
cars are continuously re-designed for survivability
please see my previous post...gun laws work

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

You are using absolute numbers

If you want to be taken seriously use murders per 100000

The murder rate in Chicago for 2015 was 18.6 per 100000
The murder rate in the entire state of New Hampshire with its extremely lax gun laws in 2015 was less than 1 per 100000

Explain that.

there it is again! population and population density...and state vs Chicago...there is no comparison...not even close ..so your hypothesis is invalid
NH density 147 psm ..pop. 1,300,000
Chi density 11, 000. psm . pop. 2,700,000 147 vs 11 thousand
the whole STATE of NH population is half of Chicago
please give me a city/state with around the same pop. and same/more dense
I gave you LA, NYC, and CHi vs STL
..no, you don't have the same murder rate Chi vs Wyoming, Nevada, etc...it's not because of more guns--but the density and total of the population
you are trying to compare--so the factors have to be comparable for the comparison to be valid

And here you have some more numbers...again, it isn't law abiding people with guns that are the issue.....it is criminals and how the local justice system deals with them.....

Chicago...2016

Population 2.705 million

762

Houston...2016

Population 2.303

302

England population 53, 000,000 homicides 580
ST louis population 300,000 homicides 188
that's one city vs a country

Britain always had a low murder rate....our non gun murder rate is higher than their total murder rate.........and after they banned and confiscated guns...their gun crime rate has gone up, not down....

They are an island....they banned and confiscated guns.....their gun crime rate is going up...

Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Banning and confiscating guns didn't lower their gun crime or their gun murder rates....

Now....they too are cutting their police numbers, their police money, and they are attacking their police with Politically Correct policies........added to that, they are importing violent people who are taking over their drug trades......and using guns more and more.....and their social welfare state can't civilize their poor, young males anymore...

That is driving their gun crime rate and their violent crime rate....

 

[OnePercenter]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Shouldn't we find out where the bad guys procured the weapon and eliminate it?

They say they did....they are an island.....they banned and confiscated their guns....it isn't working...

Meanwhile, more Americans own and carry guns......our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%....

Shouldn't we find out where the bad guys procured the weapon and eliminate it?

 

[harmonica]

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

You are using absolute numbers

If you want to be taken seriously use murders per 100000

The murder rate in Chicago for 2015 was 18.6 per 100000
The murder rate in the entire state of New Hampshire with its extremely lax gun laws in 2015 was less than 1 per 100000

Explain that.

there it is again! population and population density...and state vs Chicago...there is no comparison...not even close ..so your hypothesis is invalid
NH density 147 psm ..pop. 1,300,000
Chi density 11, 000. psm . pop. 2,700,000 147 vs 11 thousand
the whole STATE of NH population is half of Chicago
please give me a city/state with around the same pop. and same/more dense
I gave you LA, NYC, and CHi vs STL
..no, you don't have the same murder rate Chi vs Wyoming, Nevada, etc...it's not because of more guns--but the density and total of the population
you are trying to compare--so the factors have to be comparable for the comparison to be valid

And here is the answer to your question about St. Louis....it isn't law abiding gun owners...it is a justice system that doesn't punish gun criminals...just like we keep telling you guys.....

And the Ferguson Effect........the police giving up on being police....which allows thugs to shoot each other at will.....

And a lack of enough police to do the job...when they aren't afraid to do the job....


Rise in Murders Has St. Louis Debating Why

Jennifer M. Joyce, the city’s circuit attorney, or prosecutor, an elected position, complains that in St. Louis, the illegal possession of a gun is too often “a crime without a consequence,” making it difficult to stop confrontation from turning lethal.

At the same time, deeper social roots of violence such as addiction and unemployment continue unchecked. And city officials also cite what they call a “Ferguson effect,” an increase in crime last year as police officers were diverted to control protests after a white officer shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in the nearby suburb on Aug. 9.

-----------

Now, an overstretched department is forced to pick one neighborhood at a time to flood with officers. Last month, Chief Dotson even asked the state highway patrol if it could lend a dozen men to help watch downtown streets; the agency declined.

The above are the reasons...not law abiding gun owners carrying guns for self defense....

but as we clearly, undeniably see in the stats I provided, strict gun laws bring murder rates down
you do want murder rates down, yes??

 

[2aguy]

How do you propose enforcing firearm laws on CRIMINALS? How will you get the weapons they have from them? How again does denying law abiding citizens the right to possess own and carry firearms effect the criminals that do so ILLEGALLY?

tell me how do the criminals get guns?
if you want a gun you can have it!! but is yours permanently until you die--there--you can have your gun, no rights violated, no infringement, etc....
no gifting, etc....you can have a gun still
it must be registered
locked up when not in use
eventually the proliferation will go down
we want to make it harder for criminals to get guns, yes?....
my friend says he just keeps his guns lying around....remember the NYork prisoners' escape? they got guns from a vacant house! ..these are not tools like a hammer, saw, drill--but the most efficient DESIGNED to kill, hand held wepaons
Columbine shooters got guns from a friend who should;ve been put in jail--but wasn't! harsher laws for strawmen

Yes...you have just infringed on gun owners.....guns are protected....they are personal property....

The problem you have...you focus on law abiding gun owners....focus on the criminal....when you catch them, lock them up for 30 years...that is how you stop gun crime.

Registering guns is in violation of the 14th Amendment equal protection....according to Haynes v. United States, criminals do not have to register their illegal guns because it would violate their protection against self incrimination...so you are not going to force normal people to register their guns while letting criminals get away with not registering their guns...and on top of that....

Explain exactly the purpose of registering guns......how do they stop crimes? How do they solve crimes?

As to straw buyers...sure....when someone is trafficking in illegal gun sales, give them 30 years.

can't focus on strawmen because no nationwide registration
there will always be criminals
the Constitution writers specifically meant muskets, not semi-autos...that is undeniable

Oh....now you show you are just stupid.........the musket argument...when you do that, you show you have no clue what you are talking about......since you are using a computer that the founders never would have understood, and therefore you must think isn't protected by the 1st Amendment....

Registration doesn't do anything to stop gun criminals......current federal background checks are gotten around by people who can legally buy...and register guns......selling or giving guns to criminals.......registration would not stop this.....

Law abiding gun owners are not shooting people.....90% of gun murders are committed by people with long criminal records including felonies....they cannot legally buy, own or carry guns...right now.......and they are not required by law to register their illegal guns...

So how exactly is registration supposed to effect them?

 

[2aguy]

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

You are using absolute numbers

If you want to be taken seriously use murders per 100000

The murder rate in Chicago for 2015 was 18.6 per 100000
The murder rate in the entire state of New Hampshire with its extremely lax gun laws in 2015 was less than 1 per 100000

Explain that.

there it is again! population and population density...and state vs Chicago...there is no comparison...not even close ..so your hypothesis is invalid
NH density 147 psm ..pop. 1,300,000
Chi density 11, 000. psm . pop. 2,700,000 147 vs 11 thousand
the whole STATE of NH population is half of Chicago
please give me a city/state with around the same pop. and same/more dense
I gave you LA, NYC, and CHi vs STL
..no, you don't have the same murder rate Chi vs Wyoming, Nevada, etc...it's not because of more guns--but the density and total of the population
you are trying to compare--so the factors have to be comparable for the comparison to be valid

And here is the answer to your question about St. Louis....it isn't law abiding gun owners...it is a justice system that doesn't punish gun criminals...just like we keep telling you guys.....

And the Ferguson Effect........the police giving up on being police....which allows thugs to shoot each other at will.....

And a lack of enough police to do the job...when they aren't afraid to do the job....


Rise in Murders Has St. Louis Debating Why

Jennifer M. Joyce, the city’s circuit attorney, or prosecutor, an elected position, complains that in St. Louis, the illegal possession of a gun is too often “a crime without a consequence,” making it difficult to stop confrontation from turning lethal.

At the same time, deeper social roots of violence such as addiction and unemployment continue unchecked. And city officials also cite what they call a “Ferguson effect,” an increase in crime last year as police officers were diverted to control protests after a white officer shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in the nearby suburb on Aug. 9.

-----------

Now, an overstretched department is forced to pick one neighborhood at a time to flood with officers. Last month, Chief Dotson even asked the state highway patrol if it could lend a dozen men to help watch downtown streets; the agency declined.

The above are the reasons...not law abiding gun owners carrying guns for self defense....

but as we clearly, undeniably see in the stats I provided, strict gun laws bring murder rates down
you do want murder rates down, yes??

No...they don't...since you can't explain how we went from 200 million guns to 600 million guns, from 4.7 million people carrying guns to over 16.3 million people legally carrying guns....

And our gun murder rate dropping 49%....

Our gun crime rate dropping 75%...

Our violent crime rate dropping 72%........

And you can't tell us why Houston has fewer gun murders than Chicago....

And I showed you why St. Louis has so many shootings...and it has nothing to do with law abiding gun owners...

 

[2aguy]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Shouldn't we find out where the bad guys procured the weapon and eliminate it?

They say they did....they are an island.....they banned and confiscated their guns....it isn't working...

Meanwhile, more Americans own and carry guns......our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%....

Shouldn't we find out where the bad guys procured the weapon and eliminate it?

We know where...from friends and family for the most part....and as I have posted in the past....prosecutors are not interested in prosecuting the baby momma or grandmother of the gang member who was forced to straw buy their guns..........

What we can do? When you catch a felon with a gun, arrest them and lock them up for 3o years....that is how you deal with gun crime.

If you use a gun in the commission of a crime...30 years....

That is how you deal with gun crime.

Anything else is just attacking law abiding people who don't use their guns for crime.