14 and 17 year old injured in shooting, why can't guns be banned?

[Rustic]

it is im
so we shouldn't try to lower murders??
guns are the MOST efficient hand-held killing device
they are continuously re-designed to kill more efficiently
cars are continuously re-designed for survivability
please see my previous post...gun laws work

We have many, many more firearms than people up here and no violent crime not to speak of, and some of the most lax firearm laws in the country.
Getting killed by a tree or falling out of bed is more probable than getting killed by someone using a so called "assault weapon" or any firearm for that matter....
2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

Not according to your silly link.

We have much bigger fish to fry, all the violence is in the progressive controlled areas so you guys have that to deal with that's none of our business...

No comment about the lie you tried to pass off in your link? Didn't think I would look at it?

Liar is you. You keep claiming more firearms means more murder and more crime and it simply is NOT true. We have 25 years worth of data to prove you are wrong. You keep claiming more concealed carry and more open carry will lead to more crime we have 25 years worth of data to prove you wrong.

My understanding that firearms are incapable of mind control...
Air Jordans seem to cause a lot more violence... fact

 

[Skull Pilot]

I've counted. You have 6 different points to make, and you repeat them continuously, no matter how many times they have been shot down. Why don't you just number them so you don't have to do all that typing? It would be so much easier for you to post #5 and #2 instead of all that crap above.

They havent been shot down dumb ass. In the US more firearms has lead to LESS murder LESS crime. as PROVEN by the last 25 years statistics. You and your ilk have screamed that concealed and open carry would lead to MORE crime and yet NOT IN A SINGLE STATE has that happened ANYWHERE. No wild west shootouts like you claimed no extra murders no extra shootings. In fact it has lead to LESS crime and LESS murder.

0.23 deaths per 100,000 is pretty hard to beat. How close do you think we are?

3.0 or there about However isnt it telling you ignore the fact we dropped by a significant number while England went up?

I use the gun murder rate which is as you have stated 3 per 100000 Bulldog is also including suicide which isn't a crime

It's not a crime, but still effected by the number of guns available. Removing suicide from the calculation would further reduce England's rate per 100,000 substantially as well.

No it isn't. There are thousands of ways to kill yourself.

Japan has a higher suicide rate than we do and they have banned private ownership of guns

 

[Skull Pilot]

But you people always say guns cause crime don't you?

We have more guns and a decreasing crime rate. So it seems guns don't cause crime.

All the gun laws in the UK did not lower their murder rate below what it was before the gun laws were passed did they? Their gun crime rate is rising ours is falling.

What you people never seem to understand is that guns in the hands of law abiding citizens are not the problem yet you want to hold gun owners responsible for crimes committed with guns

In ever said guns increase crime. Guns increase senseless death. You can't argue with a 0.23 per 100,000 gun related death rate, especially compared to our gun related death rate.

And you keep including suicide

Suicide is a choice that is all it is all it ever will be.

Murder is senseless and i have already shown that gun laws do not decrease the murder rate.

You've shown nothing but a silly list of gun nut talking points that can be disproved by any teenager.

No here you go

List of countries by intentional homicide rate by decade - Wikipedia

Look at the chart and tell me what the murder r ate for the UK was in 1950
What was it for the US in 1950

What was the murder rate for the UK in 2010
WHat was it for the US in 2010

Answers since you probably can't figure it out from the chart yourself

UK murder rate in 1950 .79 per 100000
US murder rate in 1950 4.6 per 100000

UK murder rate in 2010 1.14 per 100000
US murder rate in 2010 4.5 per 100000

so tell me what id the UK's gun laws do for their murder rate?

They kept it at 1/4 of what our rate is.

No their rate went UP after all the gun laws were passed ours stayed the same

What you fail to understand is out murder rate has always been higher than the UK's and their rate went UP despite all their gun laws

so tell me again how gun laws reduce the murder rate

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

You do realize that people kill people not firearms, and more frivolous gun laws will not save a single soul… Fact

Violence with firearms is a non-issue in this country… we have much bigger fish to fry.
Get your fucking priorities straight. Jack weed
2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

Firearms is a big issue in this country.

Only to control freaks like you

 

[harmonica]

I feel much safer in western South Dakota where firearms outnumber people many, many times over - than in Chicago where the opposite is true....
more firearms less violent crime... fact

read post # 104
ok--South Dakota population 865,000 density 11 psm
Chicago population 2,700,000 density 11,000.....that's 11 vs 11 THOUSAND psm
no comparison...guns are not making it safer

 

[harmonica]

Don't try to bring logic and reason into this. A full blown gun nut is trying to make a point. Just sit back and watch the amazing contortions he goes through.

Only a complete imbecile would think like that. Only an abject moron would repeat the same mistake that our Constitution sought to help the people of a nation avoid. But your biggest mistake is thinking that the foundation of gun ownership in the US is based on personal protection.

Maybe if you ever did some reading you'd learn what the real purpose of gun ownership is.
But that''d be like asking a camel to talk nuclear physics.....

Maybe if you spent some time in Venezuela you'd get it. Keep pushing....you'll end up in your own Venezuela sucking some dictators boots, idiot.

People that blame guns for violence are at the bottom of the freaking IQ barrel. Excuse me, UNDER the barrel.

I don't have a problem with guns. I have several myself. I have a problem with them being present in every thing you do and every place you go. Gun nuts who think they need to be armed 24/7 scare me to death. Back when the NRA was more concerned with gun safety instead of gun sales, they said guns should be safely stored away unless you were going to or from a reasonable place where you intended to use them. (Practice, hunting, etc.) My 6 year old niece's dance recital is not a reasonable place to be armed. It is not reasonable for guns to be present when I stop at a convenience store to get a loaf of bread. Guns are great if they are kept and used in reasonable, safe places. Even Old Tombstone made you check your gun when you came to town. The OK Corral wasn't a corral. It was an alley, and the gunfight happened as the Marshall was enforcing the gun check law on someone who refused to check his gun. Gun nuts were dangerous back then too.

So.......crime only happens when you are at home......got it. Convenience stores are never robbed....the clerks never murdered....got it.

How did you develop your psychic abilities.....that tell you where and when a gun is and isn't needed? The rest of us would love to know.....

Gun safety.....you mean like this? Asswipe....

NRA’s Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program Reaches 30 Million Children

It's a shame that they don't teach that a gun in public is not supposed to be a fashion statement, or a political point.

It's no one else's business but the person that owns the firearm, you control freaks can fuck off.
Criminal control not gun control... because the last I heard firearms cannot kill on their own… LOL

humans have been murdering/robbing/raping/etc since the beginning of time
you will not and cannot stop humans from being ---HUMANS....can you?
much, much, much easier to control guns than to control humans --this is undeniable
C4 is banned, grenades banned, controlled...you can control guns better...for one, all guns must be registered......that's not against the Constitution, etc

 

[Rustic]

Only a complete imbecile would think like that. Only an abject moron would repeat the same mistake that our Constitution sought to help the people of a nation avoid. But your biggest mistake is thinking that the foundation of gun ownership in the US is based on personal protection.

Maybe if you ever did some reading you'd learn what the real purpose of gun ownership is.
But that''d be like asking a camel to talk nuclear physics.....

Maybe if you spent some time in Venezuela you'd get it. Keep pushing....you'll end up in your own Venezuela sucking some dictators boots, idiot.

People that blame guns for violence are at the bottom of the freaking IQ barrel. Excuse me, UNDER the barrel.

I don't have a problem with guns. I have several myself. I have a problem with them being present in every thing you do and every place you go. Gun nuts who think they need to be armed 24/7 scare me to death. Back when the NRA was more concerned with gun safety instead of gun sales, they said guns should be safely stored away unless you were going to or from a reasonable place where you intended to use them. (Practice, hunting, etc.) My 6 year old niece's dance recital is not a reasonable place to be armed. It is not reasonable for guns to be present when I stop at a convenience store to get a loaf of bread. Guns are great if they are kept and used in reasonable, safe places. Even Old Tombstone made you check your gun when you came to town. The OK Corral wasn't a corral. It was an alley, and the gunfight happened as the Marshall was enforcing the gun check law on someone who refused to check his gun. Gun nuts were dangerous back then too.

So.......crime only happens when you are at home......got it. Convenience stores are never robbed....the clerks never murdered....got it.

How did you develop your psychic abilities.....that tell you where and when a gun is and isn't needed? The rest of us would love to know.....

Gun safety.....you mean like this? Asswipe....

NRA’s Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program Reaches 30 Million Children

It's a shame that they don't teach that a gun in public is not supposed to be a fashion statement, or a political point.

It's no one else's business but the person that owns the firearm, you control freaks can fuck off.
Criminal control not gun control... because the last I heard firearms cannot kill on their own… LOL

humans have been murdering/robbing/raping/etc since the beginning of time
you will not and cannot stop humans from being ---HUMANS....can you?
much, much, much easier to control guns than to control humans --this is undeniable
C4 is banned, grenades banned, controlled...you can control guns better...for one, all guns must be registered......that's not against the Constitution, etc

Firearm registration is absolutely unconstitutional, there is no way that will fly... absolutely unacceptable.
Enforce current laws... no more frivolous gun laws.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I feel much safer in western South Dakota where firearms outnumber people many, many times over - than in Chicago where the opposite is true....
more firearms less violent crime... fact

read post # 104
ok--South Dakota population 865,000 density 11 psm
Chicago population 2,700,000 density 11,000.....that's 11 vs 11 THOUSAND psm
no comparison...guns are not making it safer

Correction ILLEGAL guns are not making it easier.

Compare the number of legal gun owners in SD a to those in Chicago.

You'll find that the vast majority of murders that are committed in Chicago are by people who are legally ineligible to purchase firearms.

I don't know how many times I have to say this but he we go:

Law abiding citizens who happen to own firearms never have been, are not now nor will they ever be responsible for the acts of criminals.

 

[harmonica]

I feel much safer in western South Dakota where firearms outnumber people many, many times over - than in Chicago where the opposite is true....
more firearms less violent crime... fact

read post # 104
ok--South Dakota population 865,000 density 11 psm
Chicago population 2,700,000 density 11,000.....that's 11 vs 11 THOUSAND psm
no comparison...guns are not making it safer

Correction ILLEGAL guns are not making it easier.

Compare the number of legal gun owners in SD a to those in Chicago.

You'll find that the vast majority of murders that are committed in Chicago are by people who are legally ineligible to purchase firearms.

I don't know how many times I have to say this but he we go:

Law abiding citizens who happen to own firearms never have been, are not now nor will they ever be responsible for the acts of criminals.

exactly--correct--yes--it's too easy to get guns !!!!
many times I see guns stolen from cars........stolen from houses because they are not locked up...strawman purchases
and if all guns are registered, they can be better controlled and kept out of criminal hands
I love guns...if I could I would own many....for SD and historical guns ......but I would keep them double locked when not in use...I try to make sure my valuables are just not lying around

 

[Rustic]

I feel much safer in western South Dakota where firearms outnumber people many, many times over - than in Chicago where the opposite is true....
more firearms less violent crime... fact

read post # 104
ok--South Dakota population 865,000 density 11 psm
Chicago population 2,700,000 density 11,000.....that's 11 vs 11 THOUSAND psm
no comparison...guns are not making it safer

Correction ILLEGAL guns are not making it easier.

Compare the number of legal gun owners in SD a to those in Chicago.

You'll find that the vast majority of murders that are committed in Chicago are by people who are legally ineligible to purchase firearms.

I don't know how many times I have to say this but he we go:

Law abiding citizens who happen to own firearms never have been, are not now nor will they ever be responsible for the acts of criminals.

exactly--correct--yes--it's too easy to get guns !!!!
many times I see guns stolen from cars........stolen from houses because they are not locked up...strawman purchases
and if all guns are registered, they can be better controlled and kept out of criminal hands
I love guns...if I could I would own many....for SD and historical guns ......but I would keep them double locked when not in use...I try to make sure my valuables are just not lying around

More frivolous gun laws means punishment of firearm owners… Absolutely unnecessary. Firearm registration is absolutely unconstitutional it should be rejected to the greatest extent.
Criminals are called criminals for a reason they don't obey the law so none of that stuff you speak of would work on them...

 

[harmonica]

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

 

[Skull Pilot]

I feel much safer in western South Dakota where firearms outnumber people many, many times over - than in Chicago where the opposite is true....
more firearms less violent crime... fact

read post # 104
ok--South Dakota population 865,000 density 11 psm
Chicago population 2,700,000 density 11,000.....that's 11 vs 11 THOUSAND psm
no comparison...guns are not making it safer

Correction ILLEGAL guns are not making it easier.

Compare the number of legal gun owners in SD a to those in Chicago.

You'll find that the vast majority of murders that are committed in Chicago are by people who are legally ineligible to purchase firearms.

I don't know how many times I have to say this but he we go:

Law abiding citizens who happen to own firearms never have been, are not now nor will they ever be responsible for the acts of criminals.

exactly--correct--yes--it's too easy to get guns !!!!
many times I see guns stolen from cars........stolen from houses because they are not locked up...strawman purchases
and if all guns are registered, they can be better controlled and kept out of criminal hands
I love guns...if I could I would own many....for SD and historical guns ......but I would keep them double locked when not in use...I try to make sure my valuables are just not lying around

It's not as easy as you think.

There is no need to register guns there is already a record of every gun bought.

And you are still saying that law abiding people are still somehow responsible for the acts of criminals. Tell me do you think women who are raped are responsible for being raped too?

Should men who never committed rape be treated like rapists and have their names put on a registry?

And in all reality if we treated criminals who commit gun crimes with the severity warranted there would be fewer gun crimes but our revolving door penal system is letting violent people out and we don't have the stomach to impose severe and mandatory sentencing for criminals who commit crimes with firearms.

Stop targeting the law abiding people and concentrate on the real problem, The criminals.

 

[Rustic]

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

We are not Europe, we want nothing to do with that cesspool. Nothing they do applies to here.
Firearm violence is a non-issue here, the most violent people are in progressive controlled areas they should fix their own shit.
2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

 

[Skull Pilot]

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

We are not Europe, we want nothing to do with that cesspool. Nothing they do applies to here.
Firearm violence is a non-issue here, the most violent people are in progressive controlled areas they should fix their own shit.
2017 Real Time Death Statistics in America

Actually gun crimes in the UK are on the rise while gun crimes here are decreasing

 

[harmonica]

I feel much safer in western South Dakota where firearms outnumber people many, many times over - than in Chicago where the opposite is true....
more firearms less violent crime... fact

read post # 104
ok--South Dakota population 865,000 density 11 psm
Chicago population 2,700,000 density 11,000.....that's 11 vs 11 THOUSAND psm
no comparison...guns are not making it safer

Correction ILLEGAL guns are not making it easier.

Compare the number of legal gun owners in SD a to those in Chicago.

You'll find that the vast majority of murders that are committed in Chicago are by people who are legally ineligible to purchase firearms.

I don't know how many times I have to say this but he we go:

Law abiding citizens who happen to own firearms never have been, are not now nor will they ever be responsible for the acts of criminals.

exactly--correct--yes--it's too easy to get guns !!!!
many times I see guns stolen from cars........stolen from houses because they are not locked up...strawman purchases
and if all guns are registered, they can be better controlled and kept out of criminal hands
I love guns...if I could I would own many....for SD and historical guns ......but I would keep them double locked when not in use...I try to make sure my valuables are just not lying around

More frivolous gun laws means punishment of firearm owners… Absolutely unnecessary. Firearm registration is absolutely unconstitutional it should be rejected to the greatest extent.
Criminals are called criminals for a reason they don't obey the law so none of that stuff you speak of would work on them...

wrong
all my other posts more than clearly show gun bans /laws DO work.....the stats are there--undeniable
gun laws do work, as seen in my post on NYCity, LA, and Chicago...gun laws do work
and those are not nation wide
those large cities with strict gun laws have a much, much lower murder rate
..the Constitution meant muskets, not semi-auto weapons

 

[Skull Pilot]

I feel much safer in western South Dakota where firearms outnumber people many, many times over - than in Chicago where the opposite is true....
more firearms less violent crime... fact

read post # 104
ok--South Dakota population 865,000 density 11 psm
Chicago population 2,700,000 density 11,000.....that's 11 vs 11 THOUSAND psm
no comparison...guns are not making it safer

Correction ILLEGAL guns are not making it easier.

Compare the number of legal gun owners in SD a to those in Chicago.

You'll find that the vast majority of murders that are committed in Chicago are by people who are legally ineligible to purchase firearms.

I don't know how many times I have to say this but he we go:

Law abiding citizens who happen to own firearms never have been, are not now nor will they ever be responsible for the acts of criminals.

exactly--correct--yes--it's too easy to get guns !!!!
many times I see guns stolen from cars........stolen from houses because they are not locked up...strawman purchases
and if all guns are registered, they can be better controlled and kept out of criminal hands
I love guns...if I could I would own many....for SD and historical guns ......but I would keep them double locked when not in use...I try to make sure my valuables are just not lying around

More frivolous gun laws means punishment of firearm owners… Absolutely unnecessary. Firearm registration is absolutely unconstitutional it should be rejected to the greatest extent.
Criminals are called criminals for a reason they don't obey the law so none of that stuff you speak of would work on them...

wrong
all my other posts more than clearly show gun bans /laws DO work.....the stats are there--undeniable
gun laws do work, as seen in my post on NYCity, LA, and Chicago...gun laws do work
and those are not nation wide
those large cities with strict gun laws have a much, much lower murder rate
..the Constitution meant muskets, not semi-auto weapons

They do not work.

If they did wouldn't the UK have a lower murder rate than they did before they started passing all their gun laws that you love so much?

The murder rate in the UK in 1950 was .78 per 100000 in 2010 it was 1.14 per 1000

The murder rate in the US in 1950 was 4.6 per 100000 in 2010 it was 4.8 per 100000

SO tell me how all those UK gun laws lower the murder rate.

 

[Rustic]

I feel much safer in western South Dakota where firearms outnumber people many, many times over - than in Chicago where the opposite is true....
more firearms less violent crime... fact

read post # 104
ok--South Dakota population 865,000 density 11 psm
Chicago population 2,700,000 density 11,000.....that's 11 vs 11 THOUSAND psm
no comparison...guns are not making it safer

Correction ILLEGAL guns are not making it easier.

Compare the number of legal gun owners in SD a to those in Chicago.

You'll find that the vast majority of murders that are committed in Chicago are by people who are legally ineligible to purchase firearms.

I don't know how many times I have to say this but he we go:

Law abiding citizens who happen to own firearms never have been, are not now nor will they ever be responsible for the acts of criminals.

exactly--correct--yes--it's too easy to get guns !!!!
many times I see guns stolen from cars........stolen from houses because they are not locked up...strawman purchases
and if all guns are registered, they can be better controlled and kept out of criminal hands
I love guns...if I could I would own many....for SD and historical guns ......but I would keep them double locked when not in use...I try to make sure my valuables are just not lying around

More frivolous gun laws means punishment of firearm owners… Absolutely unnecessary. Firearm registration is absolutely unconstitutional it should be rejected to the greatest extent.
Criminals are called criminals for a reason they don't obey the law so none of that stuff you speak of would work on them...

wrong
all my other posts more than clearly show gun bans /laws DO work.....the stats are there--undeniable
gun laws do work, as seen in my post on NYCity, LA, and Chicago...gun laws do work
and those are not nation wide
those large cities with strict gun laws have a much, much lower murder rate
..the Constitution meant muskets, not semi-auto weapons

If a gun ban was put in place millions on both sides would die, you have no idea of the difference between a sporting rifle and a so-called "assault weapon" because there is none… So stop before you make a fool out of yourself

 

[Rustic]

 

[Skull Pilot]

please answer this:
London population 8,700,000 2015 murders 118
ST Louis population 300,00 2015 murders 188
why the huge, huge, huge difference? it's not cultural--London has it's poor/etc
London density 14,000 psm
STL density 5000 psm

You are using absolute numbers

If you want to be taken seriously use murders per 100000

The murder rate in Chicago for 2015 was 18.6 per 100000
The murder rate in the entire state of New Hampshire with its extremely lax gun laws in 2015 was less than 1 per 100000

Explain that.

 

[Rustic]