14 yr old rape victim lashed to death

[Intense]

Please Keep This Thread on Topic. Further Derailing of the Thread will be Viewed as Trolling and will result in Infractions. Off Topic Posts were moved to Their Own Thread in The Flame Zone where all interested Parties are welcome to continue their conversation.

 

[Liability]

The topic of this thread is the savage brutality inflicted on a 14 year old rape victim by her "family" allegedly because of their understanding of the requirements of Islam.

She got raped. More than bad enough. Upon what appears to have been the mistaken belief that she had a right to seek justice, she reported the rape committed against her by a much older relative.

Speculating a little bit now, in the "tradition" of some Muslim peoples, a rape cannot be criminally penalized unless proved by the testimony of multiple witnesses. This, of course, completely ignores modern science, but worse yet, it means that any rapist who commits his violent brutal conduct out of the eyesight of witnesses can never get convicted. However, by reporting it, the rape victim is acknowledging "sexual relations" outside of marriage. Now THAT'S criminal. SO, naturally, she has to be punished.

And the punishment for the victim? A whipping. In the case of the young girl under discussion here, the whipping caused her to lose consciousness around the 80th blow. She evidently got 100. They took the victim to the hospital, but too late. She couldn't survive her injuries and so, she died.

Like strollingbones, I cannot comprehend how any of that bullshit makes any sense. It is savage. It is brutal. It is misogynistic to an incredible degree. It is barbarism. I speak for myself at this point, but I am not even slightly inclined to shrug my shoulders and say "well, it's a different culture." Fuck that. This is 2011 and these Islamic morons need to be dragged into the 21st century. Or maybe at least the 17th Century?

Other than that, I'm not sure what there is to discuss relevant to this thread topic.

 

[strollingbones]

would we allow a country that borders us to do this? could you image if canada or mexico was doing this? you are right ...there is no justification for this type of culture.

 

[Intense]

would we allow a country that borders us to do this? could you image if canada or mexico was doing this? you are right ...there is no justification for this type of culture.

It seems Predatory.

 

[AllieBaba]

It is predatory. And it needs to be obliterated.

They may have their faith. They may not have Sharia. Sharia is by definition a system which oppresses, tortures and commits human rights violations. We won't tolerate it here, but we also should not allow it to exist anywhere else. It is not democratic, it is not civilized, and it fosters violence, hate, and brutality.

 

[strollingbones]

i am not sure they should be allowed a culture...they will be like wolves....circling waiting....for the moment to strike and advance their ways...

i have little patience for their ways.....and even less tolerance for their ways at this point

 

[AllieBaba]

I feel the same. Tolerating hatred, violence, oppression is not significant of "civility". If fact, just the opposite. It shows callousness, cowardice, and depravity if you are able to "tolerate" such behavior in others.

 

[GHook93]

guess it took care of the problem.... although i do not like to see innocents succumb to some misunderstanders of islam.... the prophet, Muhammad (PBUH), would not allow such a thing..... He was a kind and gentle man who upheld the true faith.... Of course he spent some time raiding caravans, raising havoc with people of the book, and there was an incident with a 9 year old female child..... other than that, he was compassionate and a great counselor to his flock.....

He married a 6 year old dude and then banged her when she was 8 or 9! He was a warlord, who mass-murdered entire populations. He set off his followers to conquer the world in the for of the Caliphates. He authorized political assassinations, raping, looting, forced conversations and slaughter across the Arabia! He was not a gentle or innocent man. He was a child molesting genocidal warlord!

 

[High_Gravity]

What? why would the religion of peace do this?

 

[Skeptik]

It is predatory. And it needs to be obliterated.

They may have their faith. They may not have Sharia. Sharia is by definition a system which oppresses, tortures and commits human rights violations. We won't tolerate it here, but we also should not allow it to exist anywhere else. It is not democratic, it is not civilized, and it fosters violence, hate, and brutality.

Agreed.

Now, when you say "we" won't tolerate it, who are "we"? If we means the US, what do we do about it? If we means the civilized nations of the world, what do we do about it? Are we (whoever we are ) to invade the nation and put a stop to it by force? Remember, the legitimate government has already arrested the miscreants.

 

[GHook93]

he reports said Hena was raped by her 40-year-old relative Mahbub on Sunday. Next day, a fatwa was announced at a village arbitration that she must be given 100 lashes. She fell unconscious after nearly 80 lashes.

Fatally injured Hena was rushed to Naria health complex where she succumbed to her injuries.

Govt asked to explain failure to stop fatwa

what the hell is a fatwa?

Definition: A fatwa is an Islamic religious ruling, a scholarly opinion on a matter of Islamic law.

A fatwa is issued by a recognized religious authority in Islam. But since there is no hierarchical priesthood or anything of the sort in Islam, a fatwa is not necessarily "binding" on the faithful. The people who pronounce these rulings are supposed to be knowledgable, and base their rulings in knowledge and wisdom. They need to supply the evidence from Islamic sources for their opinions, and it is not uncommon for scholars to come to different conclusions regarding the same issue.

Islamic Glossary: Fatwa

And people wonder why the rape stats are so low in these countries. (1) They don't get reported because the victim gets punished and in many cases like this one killed. (2) The Rape victim is see as a perpetrator and is austrized from society and the community, many times disowned by their family. (3) The government of course fudges the stats!

 

[AllieBaba]

It is predatory. And it needs to be obliterated.

They may have their faith. They may not have Sharia. Sharia is by definition a system which oppresses, tortures and commits human rights violations. We won't tolerate it here, but we also should not allow it to exist anywhere else. It is not democratic, it is not civilized, and it fosters violence, hate, and brutality.

Agreed.

Now, when you say "we" won't tolerate it, who are "we"? If we means the US, what do we do about it? If we means the civilized nations of the world, what do we do about it? Are we (whoever we are ) to invade the nation and put a stop to it by force? Remember, the legitimate government has already arrested the miscreants.

There are no legitimate sharia governments.

 

[Kalam]

For that reason alone (if no other), Shariah is surely incompatible with the law of the USA.
Observe the First Amendment.

Certainly, and I wouldn't attempt to claim otherwise. I also don't mean to imply that my views on apostasy or any issue within Shari'ah are the be all and end all of fiqh. There are plenty of Muslims who believe differently.

Is there a fatwa or other pronouncement or law regarding the status in Islam and responsibilities of a Muslim voluntarily living under non-Islamic law?

Of course. There are fatawa representing a broad range of opinions about most issues that pertain to Shari'ah and Islam in general. Some scholars and jurists have opined that a Muslim is honor-bound to observe the laws of the society he chooses to live in so long as those laws don't interfere with his or her right to worship freely. Others have suggested that abiding by a set of laws other than Shari'ah is sinful because doing so involves placing the laws of man above the laws of God. Personally, I see flaws in both of those extreme positions and believe that it's possible to conduct myself according to the commandments of God without trampling upon the social contract that exists between me and any non-Muslim country I choose to live in.

If you want me to post some fatawa related to this question I'll be happy to do so.

 

[logical4u]

The topic of this thread is the savage brutality inflicted on a 14 year old rape victim by her "family" allegedly because of their understanding of the requirements of Islam.

She got raped. More than bad enough. Upon what appears to have been the mistaken belief that she had a right to seek justice, she reported the rape committed against her by a much older relative.

Speculating a little bit now, in the "tradition" of some Muslim peoples, a rape cannot be criminally penalized unless proved by the testimony of multiple witnesses. This, of course, completely ignores modern science, but worse yet, it means that any rapist who commits his violent brutal conduct out of the eyesight of witnesses can never get convicted. However, by reporting it, the rape victim is acknowledging "sexual relations" outside of marriage. Now THAT'S criminal. SO, naturally, she has to be punished.

And the punishment for the victim? A whipping. In the case of the young girl under discussion here, the whipping caused her to lose consciousness around the 80th blow. She evidently got 100. They took the victim to the hospital, but too late. She couldn't survive her injuries and so, she died.

Like strollingbones, I cannot comprehend how any of that bullshit makes any sense. It is savage. It is brutal. It is misogynistic to an incredible degree. It is barbarism. I speak for myself at this point, but I am not even slightly inclined to shrug my shoulders and say "well, it's a different culture." Fuck that. This is 2011 and these Islamic morons need to be dragged into the 21st century. Or maybe at least the 17th Century?

Other than that, I'm not sure what there is to discuss relevant to this thread topic.

I agree. There are those that will tell you how islam is "supposed" to work. This type of animalistic behavior seems to be the "rule", instead of the "exception". This is the evidence, the truth of how islam is actually "practiced". If you point out incidents like this by the thousands, they will pretend it is not possible in their world. Their kool-aid must be as sweet as the far left's.
There is some spiritual parts of islam that can help a person grow. However, the political aspects of islam will always end with a culture practicing brutality on its weakest citizens (not very conducive to spiritual growth).

 

[High_Gravity]

Israeli agents killed this girl not Muslims.

 

[Kalam]

You keep saying that I havent found the way for her to prove she was coerced if the "violator" is a good guy how acts piously. Do you have some kind of proof?

If a person commits a crime, their previous conduct has no bearing on whether or not they're considered guilty of that particularly crime. Since there were supposedly eyewitnesses to the event and people even had to intervene to subdue her assailant, there is no question of whether or not she was coerced and she certainly had no obligation to offer additional proof of her coercion, even according to Imam Malik's questionable views on the issue.

If a person who dutifully observed his obligations pertaining to salah and zakah for his entire life suddenly decided to murder someone, his previous good conduct would not exonerate him. I guess what I'm wondering is why you believe the rapist's previous behavior matters.

 

[sangha]

What? why would the religion of peace do this?

It's based on the Old Testament, which muslims, xtians, and jews all believe in. Edited. You have been warned about Derailing Threads. Censorship is not the issue here, Hi-Jacking Threads is.

 

[AllieBaba]

Christ brough a new law for Christians, and there are no current Christian or Jewish populations that apply the law of Leviticus. Those laws were for a different time.

 

[Skeptik]

It is predatory. And it needs to be obliterated.

They may have their faith. They may not have Sharia. Sharia is by definition a system which oppresses, tortures and commits human rights violations. We won't tolerate it here, but we also should not allow it to exist anywhere else. It is not democratic, it is not civilized, and it fosters violence, hate, and brutality.

Agreed.

Now, when you say "we" won't tolerate it, who are "we"? If we means the US, what do we do about it? If we means the civilized nations of the world, what do we do about it? Are we (whoever we are ) to invade the nation and put a stop to it by force? Remember, the legitimate government has already arrested the miscreants.

There are no legitimate sharia governments.

No, there aren't.

the government of Bangladesh, which is where this incident took place, is a representative democracy, and has outlawed sharia law.

 

[sangha]

Christ brough a new law for Christians, and there are no current Christian or Jewish populations that apply the law of Leviticus. Those laws were for a different time.

All three of the Abrahamic religions believe in the Old Testament and xtians use the OT law to justify many of their beliefs, just like the Muslims do. The God of the Old Testament, which is the same God that all three religions worship, is an angry and violent God. The fact that Jesus brought a new law does not change the nature of God.

The fact remains that the God of the Abrahamic religions is exceedingly angry and violent, willing to visit the worst punishments on people for the slightest of infractions, including infractions perpetrated by others. He is a jealous God who will commit mass murder simply because people don't believe in Him. As much as you may want to seperate the Muslims from the Jews and the xtians, the fact remains that they all worship the same bloody God.