17 yo boy shot by police because he wasn't resisting arrest.

[Uncensored2008]

dodge! answer the question

Or you'll shoot me 7 times?

Oh and duhs, I did answer the question. The answer was, "it depends on the circumstance."

Dodge!

Ford!

 

[dannyboys]

No, it doesn't address how things are different it addresses how it became mandatory and the length of training time increased. There was no details about the specific training that was received.

You were asked specifically what additional training

Notice how when she starts getting her argument destroyed....she all of a sudden "has to go to work"?

Her argument was destroyed the minute she made it and even after she moved the goalpost.

My argument has been consistent. Police need better training and two police officers per car would help to cut down on these incidents.

What better training do they need in your opinion? You've been asked this before and yet you haven't responded.

So you have zero evidence that two cops in a car and better training, whatever the hell that consists of, would reduce these types of incidents. We are just supposed to take your word for it. A person with zero law enforcement experience. SMH

I already explained that in the beginning of this thread. They need to learn how to de-escalate situations and not escalate them. I think that is an important thing to learn how to do for an officer, and that would take a bit of training.

Listen asshole! The cops DO de-escalate potential 'situations' thousands of times a day across the country.
The cops ARE carefully screened AND trained.
Once in awhile some fucking loser punk brat and or thug will not be reasoned with. This is the case with your little 17 year old loser punk brat. He never has the slightest intent to even handing over his paperwork.
The fucking brat 'got dead'. Big fucking deal.
Go make your cat food sandwich and have a shower. You stink.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Amazing that progressive like myself and a regressive like unhinged are juxtaposed on this topic.
The difference must be the many experiences I had with law inforcement during my my memorable misspent youth
His must be mental illness. .

Mine is my support for liberty and free nation.

Your's is driven by you lust for a totalitarian police state. Your position on this is no surprise at all.

My surprises is that so-called conservatives are joining you in the anti-liberty position.

 

[dannyboys]

I can just imagine how it's going to go with the lawsuit...

When your son got his license, did he sign the document stating he must have his license while driving?
Parents: "I don't know."
Attorney for the PD: Did he sign his name to anything?
Parents: Yes
Attorney for PD: This document is what every newly licensed driver must sign. Would you read the high lighted part?
Parents: "The license must be on the person when he/she is driving."
Attorney for PD: Now let's look at the video where part of the exchange where the PO asked for his license. Video shows PO calmly asking for his drivers license, poi and registration 6 TIMES. Attorney marks on black board each time the kid does not comply. One time he admits he doesn't have it but still does not hand over poi or registration.
Attorney: How many times did the po ask for license, poi, and registration, counting to each mark made when the kid refused to show anything.
Parents: Six times.
Attorney : Did you tell your son not to comply six times but hand over documents on the seventh try from the officer?
Parents : No
Attorney: What did the kid say when he was told to get out of the car? Puts video on kid's statement, "I don't have to.
Parents: He didn't have to get out of the car.
Attorney: Was that correct?
Parents: No answer, mother cries instead..

Kid guilty escalating the situation until he tries to fight a police officer.

What does a police officer have to do when in an altercation with someone who resists arrest, fights back, the kid was warned.

Maybe mom and dad have another teenager they can save from being an asshole when stopped by police. Do as the officer requests and show him your license, poi and registration. If you don't have it, say that. It's not worth a life. At least most lives.

Plaintiff: What is the usual charge for driving without a license on you, remember that the victim was a licensed driver, he simply did not have the document on him.

PD: Uh, it's an infraction that results in a ticket.

Plaintiff: What is the usual punishment?

PD: Uh, a $20 fine

Plaintiff: Not death?

PD: Um no, it's an extremely minor offense.

Plaintiff: So a person convicted of not having their license would not normally be put to death?

The brat did not get killed b/c he didn't have his paperwork.
He got killed b/c he attacked a cop.
And you fucking well know it.
Typical LIB dummy non-logic.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Two officers per patrol car is a waste of resources. The majority of police interactions are uneventful and positive.

Not at all. It would save tons in lawsuits.

explain what the hell you're stating here? You still haven't stated how to pay for this.

It would save money and lives in the long run. Do you know how expensive it is to go to court?

based on what study? Can you post that study? How does it save money? You haven't stated where the funds come from yet.

It's common sense. Duh. Do you have a solution? Let's hear it.

Common sense? You mean like the common sense that when an officer is ATTACKED he defends himself?

 

[bucs90]

I can just imagine how it's going to go with the lawsuit...

When your son got his license, did he sign the document stating he must have his license while driving?
Parents: "I don't know."
Attorney for the PD: Did he sign his name to anything?
Parents: Yes
Attorney for PD: This document is what every newly licensed driver must sign. Would you read the high lighted part?
Parents: "The license must be on the person when he/she is driving."
Attorney for PD: Now let's look at the video where part of the exchange where the PO asked for his license. Video shows PO calmly asking for his drivers license, poi and registration 6 TIMES. Attorney marks on black board each time the kid does not comply. One time he admits he doesn't have it but still does not hand over poi or registration.
Attorney: How many times did the po ask for license, poi, and registration, counting to each mark made when the kid refused to show anything.
Parents: Six times.
Attorney : Did you tell your son not to comply six times but hand over documents on the seventh try from the officer?
Parents : No
Attorney: What did the kid say when he was told to get out of the car? Puts video on kid's statement, "I don't have to.
Parents: He didn't have to get out of the car.
Attorney: Was that correct?
Parents: No answer, mother cries instead..

Kid guilty escalating the situation until he tries to fight a police officer.

What does a police officer have to do when in an altercation with someone who resists arrest, fights back, the kid was warned.

Maybe mom and dad have another teenager they can save from being an asshole when stopped by police. Do as the officer requests and show him your license, poi and registration. If you don't have it, say that. It's not worth a life. At least most lives.

Plaintiff: What is the usual charge for driving without a license on you, remember that the victim was a licensed driver, he simply did not have the document on him.

PD: Uh, it's an infraction that results in a ticket.

Plaintiff: What is the usual punishment?

PD: Uh, a $20 fine

Plaintiff: Not death?

PD: Um no, it's an extremely minor offense.

Plaintiff: So a person convicted of not having their license would not normally be put to death?

You forgot the rest:

Defense: Expert witness....is it a deadly situation when a suspect tries to take a weapon from a cop?
Expert: Yes.
Defense: If knocked unconcious....could a cops weapon be taken?
Expert: Yes.
Defense: Would it be legal for a cop to use deadly force to prevent his weapon from being taken...or to prevent being knocked unconcious?
Expert: Yes.
Defense: Really? Why?
Expert: SCOTUS Graham v. Connor.
Defense: EVEN IF the assault resulted from an original stop for a minor offense.

Expert: YES. If a cop stops someone for littering....and they attack the cop and try to kill him...and the cop kills the suspect...he was not killed "for littering". That's a trick liberals use to try to smear cops. He was killed for threatening the cops life. It just so happens that this threat emerged from a stop for a petty offense.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Everyone needs to treat a Police encounter as a survival situation. These guys are already on edge they have a near impossible job. Use some basic common sense, for a few minutes shut your mouth, be respectful do everything he says. Your chances of living will go up dramatically.

Everything you say is true. Be aware that police are dangerous killers who will kill you at the slightest provocation. You're not dealing with the Crips or the Sinaloa cartel, don't expect any rationality or compassion from the police, these are killers who would just as likely shoot you as say hello.

My question is, why do we put up with this? Is this North Korea?

 

[dannyboys]

Look, this issue isn't rocket surgery. Any decent cop could have handled this situation short of ending up with a dead kid on his hands. Period.

Yeah, I think better training is in order as well.

Keep up the pace Cowgirl. You'll be at 34000 by the end of the week..........'period'. HAAAA HAAAA
Let's see: 15 months divided by 33000 posts equals how many a day?
I bet you're a fucking dream to be around in person. NOT!

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
We can't afford two police officers in each car.

Who is "we?"

What city?

Except for motorcycle traffic cops, my home city already requires two officers in a car.

 

[daws101]

dodge! answer the question

Or you'll shoot me 7 times?

Oh and duhs, I did answer the question. The answer was, "it depends on the circumstance."

Dodge!

"It depends on the circumstances," was not a dodge. It was the correct answer.

False the circumstances in which a cop asks for your ID are for all practical purposes the same.
Unhinged's answer was out of context to the subject therefore a dodge.

 

[bucs90]

"De-escalation" is the libs new favorite word.

De-escalation is like a dance. Takes 2 to tango. If the suspect refuses to comply....the cop then has 2 choices.

1. Force compliance.
2. Say fuck it and walk away.

That's the cold reality.

The De-escalation came....6 times....as the cop calmly asked for compliance. The brat driver refused to tango. He did not want peaceful compliance with the law.

So then came the choice.

1. FORCE compliance.
2. Walk away.

Now...I can absolutely make an argument for #2. These days....#2 is being chosen A LOT. It's why crime in urban areas is surging. I chose #2 several times on patrol.

However....a lawful and civil society will never function if cops only choose #2. Law is not law without enforcement. And a society with no laws...is anarchy. Which is what most lefties and some extreme right wing radicals want.

 

[daws101]

Amazing that progressive like myself and a regressive like unhinged are juxtaposed on this topic.
The difference must be the many experiences I had with law inforcement during my my memorable misspent youth
His must be mental illness. .

Mine is my support for liberty and free nation.

Your's is driven by you lust for a totalitarian police state. Your position on this is no surprise at all.

My surprises is that so-called conservatives are joining you in the anti-liberty position.

Yep extreme melodrama brought on by untreated mental illness.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Sorry asshole. As no charges were laid and no trial conducted there is no possibility then to bring a civil suit.
Keep fucking dreaming.

Calm down sparky.

The civil suit is already in process.

{The lawsuit, filed Wednesday against Eaton County Sheriff's Sgt. Jonathan Frost and the county, says the officer was driving a new patrol car on Feb. 28 that had "improperly bright or misaimed headlights, even on low beams." Deven Guilford, 17, who had been driving to his girlfriend's house after playing basketball at his church, was one of three drivers to flash their brights at the officer to get him to dim his lights, the suit says. Frost stopped all three drivers.}

An Unarmed Teen Flashed His Brights At A Cop And Ended Up Dead

OJ got away with murder, just as Frost did - but he lost the civil suit, just as Frost will.

 

[bucs90]

[
We can't afford two police officers in each car.

Who is "we?"

What city?

Except for motorcycle traffic cops, my home city already requires two officers in a car.

What city? Most cities who do that do it because of gas expenses and a budget that can't replace cars as quickly as police work goes through them.

 

[JakeStarkey]

SCOTUS Graham v. Connor is the guide, but not the absolute shield some want it to be.

The office rin North Charleston will involved Graham v. Connor and the judge will agree with the prosecution when the latter shows how in this particular instance that SCOTUS Graham v. Connor was not reached in order to shield cops from murder charges.

 

[daws101]

[
We can't afford two police officers in each car.

Who is "we?"

What city?

Except for motorcycle traffic cops, my home city already requires two officers in a car.

Mine doesn't.

 

[bucs90]

Sorry asshole. As no charges were laid and no trial conducted there is no possibility then to bring a civil suit.
Keep fucking dreaming.

Calm down sparky.

The civil suit is already in process.

{The lawsuit, filed Wednesday against Eaton County Sheriff's Sgt. Jonathan Frost and the county, says the officer was driving a new patrol car on Feb. 28 that had "improperly bright or misaimed headlights, even on low beams." Deven Guilford, 17, who had been driving to his girlfriend's house after playing basketball at his church, was one of three drivers to flash their brights at the officer to get him to dim his lights, the suit says. Frost stopped all three drivers.}

An Unarmed Teen Flashed His Brights At A Cop And Ended Up Dead

OJ got away with murder, just as Frost did - but he lost the civil suit, just as Frost will.

So the lawsuit is basically gonna say.....

Ford produced factory lights that are too bright....and it forced our clients son to disobey the cop, resist the arrest, and attack him in a manner that threatened the cops life. Therefore....someone must pay.

 

[dannyboys]

If your point is that two people can better restrain one person then you are correct. But that's not the issue and not your original claim. The claim was that two cops per patrol car would reduce the amount of police/citizen shootings and would prevent idiots like this punk from making the dumbass decision to attack an armed officer.

But if you wish to move the goalpost, then go ahead, but the fact remains you have not shown your solution would solve anything other than retraining one person.

No, I never claimed that two officers would change a person's behavior. NEVER. Now, stop being dishonest. My point is that citizens and cops would be safer from shootings.

Yet you provide no evidence to back that point up.

It's common sense.

Ok tell us. You just got named director of the police academy. How will you make the training "better"?

Oh....remember....your recruits are a diverse cross section of American society.....not 100 very fit 18-22 year old male Marine recruits. It's 100 people of mixed gender and race and backgrounds, ages 21 through mid 40s....with workers comp laws in place in case they get hurt.

Oh....there's also lawyers waiting to sue, the DOJ threatening fines against you if you don't lower standards....AND the media waiting to expose "militarized" training if you get too harsh on them.

Now...please....inform us of this better training?

Well, I never claimed to be an expert, but IMO 6 weeks is certainly not a very long time, and perhaps police academy training time should be extended. At one time, 6 week course may have been sufficient, but not in today's day and age. There is ALWAYS room for improvement.

Police Chief Magazine - View Article

asic police recruit training has been an unsettled topic for many years in the United States. Historically, in many states, the issue has been to provide more training for recruits. Yet, in recent times, special interest groups have made their ways into academy curricula, due to the timeliness of their advocacies. Racial profiling, cultural diversity, mental health, and domestic violence are several of these areas. As a result of these training topics and other task-oriented subjects, some recruit training programs exceed 1,000 hours. That would mean that recruits are in a classroom for about half of their first year. This extended training commitment certainly is at odds with the desire of many agencies to deploy new officers expediently. Many agencies are wondering if there is a more efficient way to get their recruits the training they need.


20th-Century Police Training Model

Ever since the U.S. Congress passed the Safe Streets Act of 1968, which provided substantial federal assistance to local law enforcement agencies for training, basic recruit peace officer training has been a significant and ongoing issue across the country. Even before the passage of that act, John Sullivan, in his book Introduction to Police Science, published in 1966, observed,

While a physician may change his diagnosis or prescription, a lawyer may amend his pleadings, and a judge may take days or weeks to render a decision, when a peace officer makes a decision, it frequently must be instantaneous. Therefore, in order to cope with the many complex emergency duties and responsibilities that confront a peace officer in his/her role, the officer cannot depend entirely upon native ability. Instead he or she must be expertly trained to function effectively as an integral part of today’s modern mechanized police force.1

Almost a decade later, former U.S. attorney general Ramsey Clark also commented on the need for increased police competence by noting, “To be truly professional, police must have high standards of education and personal competence in a wide range of subjects with continuous development and training.”2

In 1973, the National Advisory Commission on Criminal Justice Standards and Goals strongly recommended that every state should require all sworn police employees to complete a minimum of 400 hours of basic training to enable all peace officers to perform their roles effectively.

Even a study prepared by the IACP in 1977 demonstrated that in the mid-1960s, the average police officer in the United States received less than 200 hours of formal training—whereas the 1973 National Advisory Commission reported that physicians received more than 11,000 hours; lawyers, more than 9,000 hours; teachers, more than 7,000 hours; embalmers, more than 5,000 hours; and barbers, more than 4,000 hours.

Yet, ironically, records and research clearly show that as late as 1967, police recruit basic training practices did not even exist for up to 32 percent of the law enforcement agencies within municipalities and counties with populations of greater than 10,000.3 For many agencies, recruit training was almost an afterthought.

For example, in 1975, with a degree in criminal justice administration, Gary Maddox became a police officer. Maddox, now director of the Law Enforcement Training Institute for the University of Missouri–Extension, says it never occurred to him at the time he was hired that it would be a year before he would receive any formal training for the job; then, when he did go to a training academy, it was only 320 hours—eight weeks’ worth. Yet from the time Maddox took his oath, he was expected to make informed, split-second decisions regarding such issues as use of force and constitutional law without a speck of training on which to rely.

By the early 1980s, basic training for peace officers in the United States had finally become mandated in every state. However, this training ranged from as little as 120 hours to as much as 1,000 hours or more, depending on each state’s respective statutes, police agencies, and academy directors. And much of that recruit training was seen as inadequate, because in many instances, the instruction bore little relationship to what was actually expected of peace officers. In the absence of any guidelines that truly related to an analysis of police experiences, instructors and trainers were left with only the formal definition of police authority and other vague, nebulous, and abstract concepts to communicate to peace officer trainees.4

These observations are not meant to discredit or belittle the usually well-intentioned and sincere efforts of police trainers and training administrators to provide job-relevant training at the time. It should be remembered that the role of police in contemporary society has never been clearly defined or universally adopted.

You really are stupid. The article you C&Ped explicitly states that depending on which state the training can be as much as 1000 hours.
The states that only provide 10 hours training are 100% LIBERAL run states.
They allow negro cops too fucking dumb and fat to work at Walmart. It's called affirmative action.

 

[bucs90]

SCOTUS Graham v. Connor is the guide, but not the absolute shield some want it to be.

The office rin North Charleston will involved Graham v. Connor and the judge will agree with the prosecution when the latter shows how in this particular instance that SCOTUS Graham v. Connor was not reached in order to shield cops from murder charges.

It's not a "guide". It is absolute law. If a cop can show he had a reasonable fear for his life or another person's life...he can use deadly force. There is the grey area regarding individual cases of whether the threat was deadly or not. But the law is a law.

Countless cases of cops being killed with their own guns is 100% proof that if someone tries to take a cops gun...it's deadly.

Many incidents of a cop being knocked unconcious...and then the suspect taking their gun....shows that if a cop is at risk of being knocked out or choked out....deadly force may be used (Birmingham had one 2 months ago).

 

[daws101]

Sorry asshole. As no charges were laid and no trial conducted there is no possibility then to bring a civil suit.
Keep fucking dreaming.

Calm down sparky.

The civil suit is already in process.

{The lawsuit, filed Wednesday against Eaton County Sheriff's Sgt. Jonathan Frost and the county, says the officer was driving a new patrol car on Feb. 28 that had "improperly bright or misaimed headlights, even on low beams." Deven Guilford, 17, who had been driving to his girlfriend's house after playing basketball at his church, was one of three drivers to flash their brights at the officer to get him to dim his lights, the suit says. Frost stopped all three drivers.}

An Unarmed Teen Flashed His Brights At A Cop And Ended Up Dead

OJ got away with murder, just as Frost did - but he lost the civil suit, just as Frost will.

So the lawsuit is basically gonna say.....

Ford produced factory lights that are too bright....and it forced our clients son to disobey the cop, resist the arrest, and attack him in a manner that threatened the cops life. Therefore....someone must pay.

Most if not all police vehicles are equipped with brighter than normal lights.
The reason why should be obvious.