17 yo boy shot by police because he wasn't resisting arrest.

[dannyboys]

Where is the evidence that two cops would cut down on police/citizen shootings and prevent people from acting irrationally and making stupid decisions. You offer a solution but then fail to show that it would actually solve what you claim it will.

Hmm. Now, WHY would they want 2 officers per car? How on EARTH does that make any sense at all?

Baltimore Sergeant Warns Superiors: “It Is About To Get Ugly”

BuzzFeed News has also learned that the Baltimore Police Department’s chief of patrol sent out a text message to all commanders ordering officers to take added caution: “2 OFFICERS PER CAR.. DOUBLE UP ALL PATROL CARS,” the order read.

Context!

This is a city where the cops are under siege, this is to protect the cops not the citizens.

It helps both, cops and citizens since two officers would be able to more easily restrain a suspect. Do you not understand that? Why not? It's really quite simple concept.

Did you even read the article you posted?

It's not about protecting anyone but the COPS!


Sgt. Lennardo Bailey told the “Eastern Command Staff” [sic’d]:

“I have been to five calls today and three of those five calls for service; I have been challenged to a fight. Some of them I blew off but one of them almost got ugly. I don’t want anybody to say that I did not tell them what is going on. This is no intel this is really what’s going on the street. This is my formal notification. It is about to get ugly.”

Yes I did. You said they couldn't "afford" to (or somebody on the thread said that). Well, apparently they can.

No they can't Cowgirl!
If they could afford to have two LEO's every patrol car they would. They don't b/c they can't!
Get that through your brain! The ONLY time and place there are two LEO's in a patrol car is for officer safety b/c they are patrolling extremely dangerous neighborhoods.
Dear God you're stupid.

 

[sealybobo]

What gets me is ChrisL believes she proposed a solution to stop events like the one in the OP. But she obviously doesn't know what a solution is.

A solution is the solving of a problem and she readily admits it will not be 100 percent effective so therefore it is not a solution because it solves nothing. Events such as th eone illustrated in the OP will continue to happen.

My answer is there is no solution when dealing with irrational people.

The officer was doing his job, whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant, he had a job to do. He was attacked, he had literally a split second to react, He relied on his years of service and training to protect himself. Unfortunately it resulted in the death of the young man. Want to blame someone? Blame the young man that attacked the cop.

This weekend on George Stephanopolis they did a story on some inner city kids who were befriended by the cops and shown what it is like when you pull someone over. All the kids had a new found respect and understanding of how scary it is to pull someone over, and then have that person start fighting you or resisting arrest. Put your hands behind your head, get on the ground, do whatever the cops tell you to do.

If you are a little 5 foot woman cop, you should be able to arrest any 6 foot monster size man no problem. If not, get shot.

 

[ChrisL]

The #1 thing that will "cut down" these incidents....which are already statistically EXTREMELY rare....is a massive public campaign to STOP RESISTING ARREST.

Public service announcements and commercials. Just like the "Just Say No" federal drug campaign in the 80s. "Just Comply". Resisting arrest is overwhelmingly the #1 cause of these incidents.

That's not going to work because in most cases they are dealing with people who want to get away.

 

[ChrisL]

Hmm. Now, WHY would they want 2 officers per car? How on EARTH does that make any sense at all?

Baltimore Sergeant Warns Superiors: “It Is About To Get Ugly”

BuzzFeed News has also learned that the Baltimore Police Department’s chief of patrol sent out a text message to all commanders ordering officers to take added caution: “2 OFFICERS PER CAR.. DOUBLE UP ALL PATROL CARS,” the order read.

Context!

This is a city where the cops are under siege, this is to protect the cops not the citizens.

It helps both, cops and citizens since two officers would be able to more easily restrain a suspect. Do you not understand that? Why not? It's really quite simple concept.

Did you even read the article you posted?

It's not about protecting anyone but the COPS!


Sgt. Lennardo Bailey told the “Eastern Command Staff” [sic’d]:

“I have been to five calls today and three of those five calls for service; I have been challenged to a fight. Some of them I blew off but one of them almost got ugly. I don’t want anybody to say that I did not tell them what is going on. This is no intel this is really what’s going on the street. This is my formal notification. It is about to get ugly.”

Yes I did. You said they couldn't "afford" to (or somebody on the thread said that). Well, apparently they can.

No they can't Cowgirl!
If they could afford to have two LEO's every patrol car they would. They don't b/c they can't!
Get that through your brain! The ONLY time and place there are two LEO's in a patrol car is for officer safety b/c they are patrolling extremely dangerous neighborhoods.
Dear God you're stupid.

That's not true since some communities are doing just that.

 

[bucs90]

Oh, and the officers would also be safer on patrol with immediate backup available for them.

I laid that all out for you. I worked 8 years at Atlanta PD...zone 3. 2 per car is NOT safer. It makes cops FEEL safer...and as a result...some do riskier and more aggressive shit. For every incident that is resolved better....2 per car creates 5 more that escalate and go worse because it enables risky behavior by aggressive officers.

Next police work myth or idea you have that my experience can debunk???

 

[ChrisL]

What gets me is ChrisL believes she proposed a solution to stop events like the one in the OP. But she obviously doesn't know what a solution is.

A solution is the solving of a problem and she readily admits it will not be 100 percent effective so therefore it is not a solution because it solves nothing. Events such as th eone illustrated in the OP will continue to happen.

My answer is there is no solution when dealing with irrational people.

The officer was doing his job, whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant, he had a job to do. He was attacked, he had literally a split second to react, He relied on his years of service and training to protect himself. Unfortunately it resulted in the death of the young man. Want to blame someone? Blame the young man that attacked the cop.

This weekend on George Stephanopolis they did a story on some inner city kids who were befriended by the cops and shown what it is like when you pull someone over. All the kids had a new found respect and understanding of how scary it is to pull someone over, and then have that person start fighting you or resisting arrest. Put your hands behind your head, get on the ground, do whatever the cops tell you to do.

If you are a little 5 foot woman cop, you should be able to arrest any 6 foot monster size man no problem. If not, get shot.

That's a good point. Should women officers be patrolling alone?

 

[ChrisL]

Oh, and the officers would also be safer on patrol with immediate backup available for them.

I laid that all out for you. I worked 8 years at Atlanta PD...zone 3. 2 per car is NOT safer. It makes cops FEEL safer...and as a result...some do riskier and more aggressive shit. For every incident that is resolved better....2 per car creates 5 more that escalate and go worse because it enables risky behavior by aggressive officers.

Next police work myth or idea you have that my experience can debunk???

I don't believe you.

 

[bucs90]

The #1 thing that will "cut down" these incidents....which are already statistically EXTREMELY rare....is a massive public campaign to STOP RESISTING ARREST.

Public service announcements and commercials. Just like the "Just Say No" federal drug campaign in the 80s. "Just Comply". Resisting arrest is overwhelmingly the #1 cause of these incidents.

That's not going to work because in most cases they are dealing with people who want to get away.

Ummm......THAT'S THE POINT....to make people who today want to resist....to stop resisting. Hence the need for the campaign.

 

[ChrisL]

Oh, and the officers would also be safer on patrol with immediate backup available for them.

I laid that all out for you. I worked 8 years at Atlanta PD...zone 3. 2 per car is NOT safer. It makes cops FEEL safer...and as a result...some do riskier and more aggressive shit. For every incident that is resolved better....2 per car creates 5 more that escalate and go worse because it enables risky behavior by aggressive officers.

Next police work myth or idea you have that my experience can debunk???

You were never a cop. Stop lying.

 

[bucs90]

Oh, and the officers would also be safer on patrol with immediate backup available for them.

I laid that all out for you. I worked 8 years at Atlanta PD...zone 3. 2 per car is NOT safer. It makes cops FEEL safer...and as a result...some do riskier and more aggressive shit. For every incident that is resolved better....2 per car creates 5 more that escalate and go worse because it enables risky behavior by aggressive officers.

Next police work myth or idea you have that my experience can debunk???

I don't believe you.

I don't give a shit. But I'll keep debunking your nonsense about cops with my experience.

 

[ChrisL]

The #1 thing that will "cut down" these incidents....which are already statistically EXTREMELY rare....is a massive public campaign to STOP RESISTING ARREST.

Public service announcements and commercials. Just like the "Just Say No" federal drug campaign in the 80s. "Just Comply". Resisting arrest is overwhelmingly the #1 cause of these incidents.

That's not going to work because in most cases they are dealing with people who want to get away.

Ummm......THAT'S THE POINT....to make people who today want to resist....to stop resisting. Hence the need for the campaign.

Hmm. I think people are well aware that they SHOULDN'T resist the police, but people are people and are going to do those kinds of things. However, I am not against such a campaign. Unlike yourself, I am all for anything that would help.

 

[ChrisL]

Oh, and the officers would also be safer on patrol with immediate backup available for them.

I laid that all out for you. I worked 8 years at Atlanta PD...zone 3. 2 per car is NOT safer. It makes cops FEEL safer...and as a result...some do riskier and more aggressive shit. For every incident that is resolved better....2 per car creates 5 more that escalate and go worse because it enables risky behavior by aggressive officers.

Next police work myth or idea you have that my experience can debunk???

I don't believe you.

I don't give a shit. But I'll keep debunking your nonsense about cops with my experience.

Well you were completely WRONG about the article I posted. Lol. You must have only read my post and not clicked on the link I provided for you. Of course, you cannot copy an ENTIRE article. I'm familiar with the rules.

 

[ChrisL]

Oh, and the officers would also be safer on patrol with immediate backup available for them.

I laid that all out for you. I worked 8 years at Atlanta PD...zone 3. 2 per car is NOT safer. It makes cops FEEL safer...and as a result...some do riskier and more aggressive shit. For every incident that is resolved better....2 per car creates 5 more that escalate and go worse because it enables risky behavior by aggressive officers.

Next police work myth or idea you have that my experience can debunk???

I don't believe you.

I don't give a shit. But I'll keep debunking your nonsense about cops with my experience.

Lol.

 

[ChrisL]

Oh, and the officers would also be safer on patrol with immediate backup available for them.

I laid that all out for you. I worked 8 years at Atlanta PD...zone 3. 2 per car is NOT safer. It makes cops FEEL safer...and as a result...some do riskier and more aggressive shit. For every incident that is resolved better....2 per car creates 5 more that escalate and go worse because it enables risky behavior by aggressive officers.

Next police work myth or idea you have that my experience can debunk???

I don't believe you.

I don't give a shit. But I'll keep debunking your nonsense about cops with my experience.

I hope all cops aren't as angry and emotional as you are.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

No, it doesn't address how things are different it addresses how it became mandatory and the length of training time increased. There was no details about the specific training that was received.

You were asked specifically what additional training

Notice how when she starts getting her argument destroyed....she all of a sudden "has to go to work"?

Her argument was destroyed the minute she made it and even after she moved the goalpost.

My argument has been consistent. Police need better training and two police officers per car would help to cut down on these incidents.

What better training do they need in your opinion? You've been asked this before and yet you haven't responded.

So you have zero evidence that two cops in a car and better training, whatever the hell that consists of, would reduce these types of incidents. We are just supposed to take your word for it. A person with zero law enforcement experience. SMH

I already explained that in the beginning of this thread. They need to learn how to de-escalate situations and not escalate them. I think that is an important thing to learn how to do for an officer, and that would take a bit of training.

You haven't explained anything or I wouldn't be asking. The cops are not psychology professors they are not there to coddle petulant brats that don't want to cooperate.

 

[bucs90]

Then why post about that era?
First tell us why the current training isn't adequate and what improvements you believe need to be made.

I guess you didn't bother to read the article. It is comparing the way we used to train officers to how we train them now and things we could do differently.

No, it doesn't address how things are different it addresses how it became mandatory and the length of training time increased. There was no details about the specific training that was received.

You were asked specifically what additional training

Notice how when she starts getting her argument destroyed....she all of a sudden "has to go to work"?

Her argument was destroyed the minute she made it and even after she moved the goalpost.

My argument has been consistent. Police need better training and two police officers per car would help to cut down on these incidents.

Yet.....you can offer ANY ideas of what that means...and you ignore what I've told you on why 2 officers per car will not reduce violent incidents.

2 per car is good for saving gas. It's why some PDs do it. Budget reasons.

It does not reduce the number of violent incidents. For every 1 it may prevent...it creates others due to the false confidence it gives aggressive cops who do risky shit more often because "backup is here" mentality.

Yes. You have been consistent. You're wrong...but yes...you're sticking to it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Let us all agree the deniers here are correct.

The kid is still dead. Forever.

We had a family counsel Sunday night with the older teenagers and adults on vid links set up by my second son.

The oldest son conducted the meeting. His point is that none of us have the legal authority to resist an officer who is in the performance of his duty. S/he has a weapon, and if an individual is stupid enough to violently resist much less attack an officer, that cop is determined that s/he will be the one to go home to her or his loved ones at the end of the shift. That cop is convinced that the citizen's right to go home safe just went down the toilet when the incident escalated to violence.

So if we are involved with the police, simply comply and take it up with your lawyers later.

 

[bucs90]

Oh, and the officers would also be safer on patrol with immediate backup available for them.

I laid that all out for you. I worked 8 years at Atlanta PD...zone 3. 2 per car is NOT safer. It makes cops FEEL safer...and as a result...some do riskier and more aggressive shit. For every incident that is resolved better....2 per car creates 5 more that escalate and go worse because it enables risky behavior by aggressive officers.

Next police work myth or idea you have that my experience can debunk???

I don't believe you.

I don't give a shit. But I'll keep debunking your nonsense about cops with my experience.

I hope all cops aren't as angry and emotional as you are.

Translation: "I hate that I can't beat you in this debate so I'm calling you angry and emotional".

 

[Jackson]

Well, I have way too many replies to respond to them all on this thread, so I will just say that we need two officers to every patrol car and the officers need better training. That much is obvious, I think.

We can't afford two police officers in each car.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I can just imagine how it's going to go with the lawsuit...

When your son got his license, did he sign the document stating he must have his license while driving?
Parents: "I don't know."
Attorney for the PD: Did he sign his name to anything?
Parents: Yes
Attorney for PD: This document is what every newly licensed driver must sign. Would you read the high lighted part?
Parents: "The license must be on the person when he/she is driving."
Attorney for PD: Now let's look at the video where part of the exchange where the PO asked for his license. Video shows PO calmly asking for his drivers license, poi and registration 6 TIMES. Attorney marks on black board each time the kid does not comply. One time he admits he doesn't have it but still does not hand over poi or registration.
Attorney: How many times did the po ask for license, poi, and registration, counting to each mark made when the kid refused to show anything.
Parents: Six times.
Attorney : Did you tell your son not to comply six times but hand over documents on the seventh try from the officer?
Parents : No
Attorney: What did the kid say when he was told to get out of the car? Puts video on kid's statement, "I don't have to.
Parents: He didn't have to get out of the car.
Attorney: Was that correct?
Parents: No answer, mother cries instead..

Kid guilty escalating the situation until he tries to fight a police officer.

What does a police officer have to do when in an altercation with someone who resists arrest, fights back, the kid was warned.

Maybe mom and dad have another teenager they can save from being an asshole when stopped by police. Do as the officer requests and show him your license, poi and registration. If you don't have it, say that. It's not worth a life. At least most lives.

Plaintiff: What is the usual charge for driving without a license on you, remember that the victim was a licensed driver, he simply did not have the document on him.

PD: Uh, it's an infraction that results in a ticket.

Plaintiff: What is the usual punishment?

PD: Uh, a $20 fine

Plaintiff: Not death?

PD: Um no, it's an extremely minor offense.

Plaintiff: So a person convicted of not having their license would not normally be put to death?