2013 sea ice thread!!!

[mamooth]

Sheer and utter bullshit.

Yes, that would be how you linked to discussions about Antarctic land ice when the topic was the correct prediction of the Antarctic sea ice growth by AGW scientists. Why did you think you could pull off that kind of dishonest stunt? You have to have learned by now that I always call you out when you pull that kind of sleaze.

Pout and squeal all you want, declare how your cult says it can't be possible, but AGW scientists correctly predicted Antarctic sea ice growth way ahead of time.

Let me go dig such a prediction out of the archives. Ah, right here, page 795, from a 1991 paper.

S. Manabe, R. J. Stouffer, M. J. Spelman and K. Bryan
---
It is surprising, however, that the sea-ice thickness in the G integration increases significantly in the immediate vicinity of the Antarctic Continent despite the increase of atmospheric carbon dioxide.
---

There. I've backed my case. Time for you to back yours, by giving us some direct sources showing AGW scientists predicting an immediate Antarctic sea ice melt.

 

[westwall]

Ol' Walleyes is lying once again. All too easy to copy the links;

Is Antarctica losing or gaining ice?

Skeptic arguments that Antarctica is gaining ice frequently hinge on an error of omission, namely ignoring the difference between land ice and sea ice.

In glaciology and particularly with respect to Antarctic ice, not all things are created equal. Let us consider the following differences. Antarctic land ice is the ice which has accumulated over thousands of years on the Antarctica landmass itself through snowfall. This land ice therefore is actually stored ocean water that once fell as precipitation. Sea ice in Antarctica is quite different as it is generally considered to be ice which forms in salt water primarily during the winter months.

In Antarctica, sea ice grows quite extensively during winter but nearly completely melts away during the summer (Figure 1). That is where the important difference between antarctic and arctic sea ice exists. Arctic sea ice lasts all the year round, there are increases during the winter months and decreases during the summer months but an ice cover does in fact remain in the North which includes quite a bit of ice from previous years (Figure 1). Essentially Arctic sea ice is more important for the earth's energy balance because when it melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the oceans whereas Antarctic sea ice normally melts each summer leaving the earth's energy balance largely unchanged

Poor olfraud, don't you realize that you have zero credibility? No one but your fellow travelers believe your BS anymore.... tsk tsk...


Vast Antarctic ice sheet 'in play' with global warming - World News

Global Warming Impact Zones | Antarctica

Is Global Warming Melting Antarctica's Ice? | LiveScience

And on and on..though it is amusing to see your "experts" fall all over themselves trying to cover their asses with their failed predictions that global warming was causing the Antarctic to melt at an "ever increasing rate".

You guys are so full of shit you no longer know which way is up.

 

[westwall]

Sheer and utter bullshit.

Yes, that would be how you linked to discussions about Antarctic land ice when the topic was the correct prediction of the Antarctic sea ice growth by AGW scientists. Why did you think you could pull off that kind of dishonest stunt? You have to have learned by now that I always call you out when you pull that kind of sleaze.

Pout and squeal all you want, declare how your cult says it can't be possible, but AGW scientists correctly predicted Antarctic sea ice growth way ahead of time.

Let me go dig such a prediction out of the archives. Ah, right here, page 795, from a 1991 paper.

S. Manabe, R. J. Stouffer, M. J. Spelman and K. Bryan
---
It is surprising, however, that the sea-ice thickness in the G integration increases significantly in the immediate vicinity of the Antarctic Continent despite the increase of atmospheric carbon dioxide.
---

There. I've backed my case. Time for you to back yours, by giving us some direct sources showing AGW scientists predicting an immediate Antarctic sea ice melt.

Once again I say bullshit. They didn't start with that lie till TWO years ago. Before that it was all AGW is melting the Antarctic ice at an ever increasing rate. Screw you and your pathetic lies.

 

[mamooth]

Once again I say bullshit.

Running so soon? Yeah, that sure surprised everyone.

I showed you were full of shit, as usual, using documentation. Instead of just admitting you were wrong, or simply quietly slinking away (which I always allow, being I'm a gracious forgiving soul), you choose instead to double down on "dishonest" and start deliberately lying. That's because you've always been too much of a sacless wonder to ever admit you made a mistake.

I know it, you know it, everyone knows it. You're being a little bitch, crying because you got humiliated again. How 'bout you man up for a change, instead of pissing your pants whenever I speak? And if you can't stop pissing yourself, you'd think you'd learn to avoid talking with me, knowing that it's just going to result in you needing to change your pants again.

 

[westwall]

Once again I say bullshit.

Running so soon? Yeah, that sure surprised everyone.

I showed you were full of shit, as usual, using documentation. Instead of just admitting you were wrong, or simply quietly slinking away (which I always allow, being I'm a gracious forgiving soul), you choose instead to double down on "dishonest" and start deliberately lying. That's because you've always been too much of a sacless wonder to ever admit you made a mistake.

I know it, you know it, everyone knows it. You're being a little bitch, crying because you got humiliated again. How 'bout you man up for a change, instead of pissing your pants whenever I speak? And if you can't stop pissing yourself, you'd think you'd learn to avoid talking with me, knowing that it's just going to result in you needing to change your pants again.

No, you didn't you silly twerp. The only thing you have proven is your complete lack of reality. See ya later admiral

 

[SSDD]

Well, they did predict that the antarctic ice would grow after it refused to melt and continued to grow.

 

[SSDD]

 

[Old Rocks]

Once again I say bullshit.

Running so soon? Yeah, that sure surprised everyone.

I showed you were full of shit, as usual, using documentation. Instead of just admitting you were wrong, or simply quietly slinking away (which I always allow, being I'm a gracious forgiving soul), you choose instead to double down on "dishonest" and start deliberately lying. That's because you've always been too much of a sacless wonder to ever admit you made a mistake.

I know it, you know it, everyone knows it. You're being a little bitch, crying because you got humiliated again. How 'bout you man up for a change, instead of pissing your pants whenever I speak? And if you can't stop pissing yourself, you'd think you'd learn to avoid talking with me, knowing that it's just going to result in you needing to change your pants again.

No, you didn't you silly twerp. The only thing you have proven is your complete lack of reality. See ya later admiral

Walleyes, you dumb fuck, the paper was from 1991. It blows your lies right out of the water.

 

[Old Rocks]

Nice way to post a lie. Here is the whole graph;

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/wordp...olumeAnomalyCurrentV2.png?<?php echo time() ?

 

[Old Rocks]

Ol' Walleyes is lying once again. All too easy to copy the links;

Is Antarctica losing or gaining ice?

Skeptic arguments that Antarctica is gaining ice frequently hinge on an error of omission, namely ignoring the difference between land ice and sea ice.

In glaciology and particularly with respect to Antarctic ice, not all things are created equal. Let us consider the following differences. Antarctic land ice is the ice which has accumulated over thousands of years on the Antarctica landmass itself through snowfall. This land ice therefore is actually stored ocean water that once fell as precipitation. Sea ice in Antarctica is quite different as it is generally considered to be ice which forms in salt water primarily during the winter months.

In Antarctica, sea ice grows quite extensively during winter but nearly completely melts away during the summer (Figure 1). That is where the important difference between antarctic and arctic sea ice exists. Arctic sea ice lasts all the year round, there are increases during the winter months and decreases during the summer months but an ice cover does in fact remain in the North which includes quite a bit of ice from previous years (Figure 1). Essentially Arctic sea ice is more important for the earth's energy balance because when it melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the oceans whereas Antarctic sea ice normally melts each summer leaving the earth's energy balance largely unchanged

Poor olfraud, don't you realize that you have zero credibility? No one but your fellow travelers believe your BS anymore.... tsk tsk...


Vast Antarctic ice sheet 'in play' with global warming - World News

Global Warming Impact Zones | Antarctica

Is Global Warming Melting Antarctica's Ice? | LiveScience

And on and on..though it is amusing to see your "experts" fall all over themselves trying to cover their asses with their failed predictions that global warming was causing the Antarctic to melt at an "ever increasing rate".

You guys are so full of shit you no longer know which way is up.

Global Warming Impact Zones | Antarctica

Antarctica is covered by two ice sheets. The larger East Antarctic ice sheet covers the majority of the continent, while the West Antarctic ice sheet has significant ice shelves floating in the ocean. Taken together, they contain about 90 percent of Earth’s ice, 70 percent of its freshwater, and contain enough water to raise sea level by around 200 feet if they were to melt completely.

In the spring of 2002, scientists were shocked to discover that an ice shelf the size of Rhode Island had disintegrated in just over a month from the West Antarctica ice sheet. The collapse of the Larsen B ice shelf was a wake up call to scientists who had thought that these large areas of ice would take a millennium to disappear, not a month.

But the collapse of the Larsen B ice shelf was only the tip of the iceberg for ice loss in the Antarctic. Satellite measurements made by NASA since 2002 show that Antacrtica as a whole is losing mass at an accelerating rate.


Because the floating ice of the West Antarctic is subject to both warming air and ocean temperatures, scientists think it is especially vulnerable to global warming. Until recently, it was thought that only coastal areas of the West Antarctic were vulnerable to melting. But satellite analysis has revealed that large inland regions are also showing signs of the impacts of warming. There is also evidence that in addition to the loss known to be occurring in West Antarctica, East Antarctica has also been losing ice since 2006.

Human activities have been identified as an important driver of Antarctic climate change, though a complex set of natural factors are also important. Rigorous analysis of temperature trends show that Antarctica has been warming at an average rate of about 0.2 °F per decade (from 1957 to 2006) or about 1°F for the last half century, roughly comparable to the warming observed for the globe as a whole. Arctic warming is expected to continue as greenhouse gas concentrations rise and the ozone hole heals.

 

[Old Rocks]

Vast Antarctic ice sheet 'in play' with global warming - World News

By Miguel Llanos, NBC News

Scientists have long focused on Antarctica&#8217;s smaller ice sheet as being vulnerable to warming, but two new studies project that part of the continent's much larger ice sheet is also at risk -- and that ice now held back on land there could add to sea level rise by 2100.


Follow @msnbc_us

"This is the first legitimate evidence that this part of Antarctica is in play," Bob Bindschadler, a NASA earth scientist who has studied Antarctica for 30 years, told msnbc.com. "The potential, the reservoir of ice ... is vast."

In fact, that area, known as the East Antarctic Ice Sheet, has 10 times as much ice as the West Antarctic Ice Sheet.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One study, published Wednesday in the journal Nature, used a computer model to project what would happen in Antarctica's Weddell Sea if temperatures rose in line with U.N. projections for 2100.

 

[Old Rocks]

Is Global Warming Melting Antarctica's Ice? | LiveScience

Over the course of the past 50 years, climate records show that while regional air temperatures have decreased in much of the Antarctic, in the Antarctic Peninsula they have increased by 4.5 degrees Fahrenheit (2.5 degrees Celsius), or about five times the rate of warming measured for the rest of the world, according to NASA.

NASA uses satellites to measure average global temperatures by monitoring heat-sensitive objects on the ground while also incorporating records from the European Space Agency's Remote Sensing Satellites (ERS) and the Canadian Space Agency's RADARSAT satellite. Using this data, NASA determined that climate warming cause the disintegration of large ice shelves (platforms of ice spanning from the shore into the ocean) in the Antarctic Peninsula in 1995 and 2002. Many of these ice shelves are continuing to crumble.

"Ice around the edges of most of Antarctica is melting or calving off into icebergs more than it is snowing inland, as there's not enough snow to replace the ice that is lost around the edges," Pettit told Life's Little Mysteries. "So yes, in total we are losing ice for much of Antarctica, with the most ice being lost in the Antarctic Peninsula."

Dang, Walleyes, every one of these articles states that Antarctica is losing ice, and may start losing it at an even more rapid pace as the ocean warms in response to global warming. Was that your intent? Have you finally agreed with 97% of the other scientists in the world?

 

[IanC]

Given that the AGW scientists correctly predicted the Antarctic ice growth ahead of time, the cranks look kind of crazy for claiming they ignored it. I guess in crankland, "predicted" = "ignored".

The current ice area is being kept up by behind-schedule (compared to recent years) melts in Hudson Bay and Baffin Bay, due to the cold weather there over May. That will be meaningless in the final tally, since Hudson Bay and Baffin Bay always melt out completely.

It's what's happening in the central arctic that's going to determine the final tally. The slushified areas there are still counted as ice-covered in the tally, despite their fragility. Melting near the pole is more a factor of water temperature than of sunlight and air temperature, so increased ice surface area in contact with water is a significant factor.

let me get this straight....you are saying that climate science has/is predicting ice growth for Antarctica?

or are you saying that some predictions are for gain/ some are for loss, and that there are enough predictions made in any direction for anywhere that you can find one to support your position, no matter how often it changes?

 

[Old Rocks]

No, Ian, he stated flat out that the scientists predicted sea ice growth for Antarctica. There were some that thought that the warming would cause more snow to fall on the continent, but that has not turned out to be the case. And while the sea ice is increasing, it melts almost completely every year. In the meantime, the continent is losing an ever increasing amount of ice.

 

[SSDD]

Nice way to post a lie. Here is the whole graph;

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/wordp...olumeAnomalyCurrentV2.png?<?php echo time() ?

Idiot. Try posting a graph that describes the same thing. Do you understand the difference between a graph describing ice thickness and a graph describing a volume anomoly? Guess not.

 

[SSDD]

let me get this straight....you are saying that climate science has/is predicting ice growth for Antarctica?

or are you saying that some predictions are for gain/ some are for loss, and that there are enough predictions made in any direction for anywhere that you can find one to support your position, no matter how often it changes?

His story was from 2010. I did some looking and if you go further back, you don't find any stories predicting antarctic ice growth...prior to the time that it was becoming clear that the antarctic was not going to melt, all of the predictions were for rapid melting and incredible sea level increases.

They predicted melting till it didn't melt then they predicted growth after it was clear that the ice was growing.

 

[westwall]

let me get this straight....you are saying that climate science has/is predicting ice growth for Antarctica?

or are you saying that some predictions are for gain/ some are for loss, and that there are enough predictions made in any direction for anywhere that you can find one to support your position, no matter how often it changes?

His story was from 2010. I did some looking and if you go further back, you don't find any stories predicting antarctic ice growth...prior to the time that it was becoming clear that the antarctic was not going to melt, all of the predictions were for rapid melting and incredible sea level increases.

They predicted melting till it didn't melt then they predicted growth after it was clear that the ice was growing.

Exactly right. Prior to 2010 all claims were melting, then rapid melting, then melting faster than they ever could have imagined then ooooppps, the brakes came on and they swiftly changed their tune.

olfraud et al are merely trying to revise history like the good little lackeys they are.

 

[mamooth]

So the denialists are _still_ refusing to acknowledge the 1991 climate science paper that specifically predicted the increase in Antarctic sea ice? Of course they are. It's what cultists do.

Do they consider themselves liars? Not really. I think Westwall honestly thinks he's an honest person, as a result of his cult programming. It's part of the cult indoctrination, the cult defining its own members as morally perfect and incapable of lying. Thus, cultists are emotionally unable to process the fact that their cult lied to them. Since, in their eyes, the cult can't lie, that means the bearer of bad news who showed the cult was lying has to be a liar himself. And that would be why poor Westwall goes so unhinged whenever someone shows him how his cult lied.

And the evidence of the cult's lies? Simple refuse to acknowledge such a thing exists. If the bearer of bad news insists on bringing it up again, switch to endless personal attacks to divert attention.

 

[SSDD]

So the denialists are _still_ refusing to acknowledge the 1991 climate science paper that specifically predicted the increase in Antarctic sea ice? Of course they are. It's what cultists do.

Your 1991 paper doesn't support your claims. First he is only talking about increased thickness of sea ice, not continental ice...second, he notes that the increase is surprising..and why would it be surprising?...because all of the predictions were for general ice loss in Antarctica..sea ice and continental ice.

 

[westwall]

So the denialists are _still_ refusing to acknowledge the 1991 climate science paper that specifically predicted the increase in Antarctic sea ice? Of course they are. It's what cultists do.

Your 1991 paper doesn't support your claims. First he is only talking about increased thickness of sea ice, not continental ice...second, he notes that the increase is surprising..and why would it be surprising?...because all of the predictions were for general ice loss in Antarctica..sea ice and continental ice.

You must remember SSDD, their reading comprehension is LOOOOOW