2016 Arctic sea ice thread

[jc456]

As jc won't explain the theory he keeps invoking, I'll have to help him out.

His goof sources take the percent of energy the sun emits as IR, claim CO2 blocks some of that percentage from hitting the ground, and therefore that more CO2 prevents more IR from hitting the ground, cooling the earth.

The giant flaw with their method is lumping all IR in one category. Shortwave IR, which is where most of the energy is, isn't blocked by CO2. Hence, increasing CO2 doesn't stop it from reaching the surface, hence their theory is nonsense.

And no back radiation, don't forget, that piece you.... You can't prove

Have you explained how Evans was able to directly measure what you say does not exist?

Why, I don't agree with it. I don't have to agree with everything he writes, but he does agree with me in other areas as I pointed out. Curry doesn't agree with everything I believe, she however is correct about most. You're just showing your lib belief that one must agree 100% or the person doesn't make the cut for you.

 

[jc456]

Crick enjoy the read:

I read it. The guy got some very basic things wrong. For example, he claims the earth can't warm unless the sun warms, because it would make the earth radiate more, which would remove the heat. However, by that stupid logic, it's impossible for a blanket to make a person warmer, because the person would radiate more heat as he got warmer, removing the heat. Hence, that stupid logic is obviously wrong.

So, that source fails hard at elementary physics, just like all of your sources.

You'd be more convincing if, instead of just linking to conspiracy cult web pages and yelling "I WIN!", you'd actually explain your claim in your own words. So do so. Tell us, in your own words, why CO2 has a cooling effect. Now I could summarize the crackpot argument in a sentence, but you're the one who needs to do so. After all, if you don't even understand your own theory, why should we take you seriously?

Funny stuff tooth. again a blanket isn't our atmosphere and hasn't a thing to do with surface temperatures and heat transfers. Sorry.

How does CO2 cool the planet?

how does it heat it? .03% of the atmosphere, where is the power?

It is 0.04% of the atmosphere, up from 0.028% prior to the Industrial Revolution. As to the how, perhaps you've heard mention of the Greenhouse Effect? If not, we could give you a link to several good explanations.

.04% now dude, that's a scary %. LOL. .04 isn't even a fkn dot in the sky as you look up. It is why there is no issue with CO2.

 

[Crick]

God are you stupid. The temperature has barely risen 1C in 150 years as that level has slowly grown to its present value. No one is saying the sky is on fire. For you to reject it because YOU think it sounds too small is stupidity at its finest.

 

[jc456]

God are you stupid. The temperature has barely risen 1C in 150 years as that level has slowly grown to its present value. No one is saying the sky is on fire. For you to reject it because YOU think it sounds too small is stupidity at its finest.

Maybe so, but that dot in the sky didn't do it. No gas did.

 

[jc456]

Can you say hoax?

 

[Crick]

God are you stupid. The temperature has barely risen 1C in 150 years as that level has slowly grown to its present value. No one is saying the sky is on fire. For you to reject it because YOU think it sounds too small is stupidity at its finest.

Maybe so, but that dot in the sky didn't do it. No gas did.

What did? How many different ideas have you suggested as alternate sources of that heating and how many of them have worked out?

 

[jc456]

God are you stupid. The temperature has barely risen 1C in 150 years as that level has slowly grown to its present value. No one is saying the sky is on fire. For you to reject it because YOU think it sounds too small is stupidity at its finest.

Maybe so, but that dot in the sky didn't do it. No gas did.

What did? How many different ideas have you suggested as alternate sources of that heating and how many of them have worked out?

It's simple, the planet is 75% water. What about that escapes you?

 

[Crick]

Let's try again. What do you believe has been causing the world to warm up for the last 150 years?

 

[RollingThunder]

2016 will be the year that Arctic sea ice extent and volume reaches a new record low, significantly lower than the previous record low in 2012. This is a result of the extremely high temperatures the Arctic has been experiencing this year as a result of human caused global warming.....up to 29 degrees F. above normal in some parts of the Arctic.

We've never seen anything like this': Arctic sea ice hit a stunning new low in May
Washington Post
By Chris Mooney
June 7, 2016
(excerpts)
The 2016 race downward in Arctic sea ice continued in May with a dramatic new record. The average area of sea ice atop the Arctic Ocean last month was just 12 million square kilometers (4.63 million square miles), according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC). That beats the prior May record (from 2004) by more than half a million square kilometers, and is well over a million square kilometers, or 500,000 square miles, below the average for the month. Another way to put it is this: The Arctic Ocean this May had more than three Californias less sea ice cover than it did during an average May between 1981 and 2010. And it broke the prior record low for May by a region larger than California, although not quite as large as Texas.

This matters because 2016 could be marching toward a new record for the lowest amount of ice ever observed on top of the world at the height of melt season September. The previous record September low was set in 2012. But heres what the National Snow and Ice Data Center has to say about that: "Daily extents in May were also two to four weeks ahead of levels seen in 2012, which had the lowest September extent in the satellite record. The monthly average extent for May 2016 is more than one million square kilometers (386,000 square miles) below that observed in May 2012." In other words, for Arctic sea ice, May 2016 was more like June 2012 the record-breaking year. Going into the truly warm months of the year, then, the ice is in a uniquely weak state. "We've never seen anything like this before," said Mark Serreze, who directs the center. "It's way below the previous record, very far below it, and we're something like almost a month ahead of where we were in 2012."

All of this will be very fresh and clear in the minds of the American public when election time rolls around in November, after the Republican candidates for President and Congress have been busy throughout their campaigns claiming that human caused global warming isn't really happening. Most sane people (so not necessarily tea-baggers and rightwingnut ideologues) can recognize insanity when they see it, and the American people will go to the polls this Fall knowing that the Republican stooges for the fossil fuel industry are bug-fuck crazy and totally out of touch with reality. This issue may well be instrumental in the Democrats regaining control of the House and Senate.

 

[jc456]

Let's try again. What do you believe has been causing the world to warm up for the last 150 years?

manufactured/ fudged data from our trusted sources/ or not so trusted.

 

[LaDexter]

It is absolutely par for the course of the tippy toppiest "top climate scientists" that the subject of this thread is ARCTIC Sea Ice, not EARTH Sea Ice..


CHERRY PICKING, FUDGING, and outright FRAUD.

CHERRY PICKING - just look at Arctic Sea Ice, not Antarctic Sea Ice

FUDGING - taking highly correlated satellite and balloon data showing no warming in the atmosphere and fudging both with uncorrelated "corrections" to show "warming"

FRAUD - the three Pacific Island chains are "sinking" because of rising sea level caused by "warming" by CO2, nevermind all three are right on the lip of the Pacific Ring of Fire, or the fact that no other island on the planet is "sinking...."

 

[RollingThunder]

Let's try again. What do you believe has been causing the world to warm up for the last 150 years?

manufactured/ fudged data from our trusted sources/ or not so trusted.

Standard denier cult crackpot conspiracy theory bullshit from the troll JustCrazy, which, besides being very insane, does not at all explain the massive and well observed melting of the Arctic sea ice and the ice sheets on Greenland.

 

[LaDexter]

It is so very pathetic to observe "humans" addicted to acting like parrots.

The URBAN HEAT SINK EFFECT is where the "warmers" get that "warming" over the past 150 years. When grass, dirt and trees are converted into buildings, pavement, highways etc., you get warming on the surface. To convert nature to Tokyo, you warm 10 degrees.

Greenland is not melting. Antarctica is not melting. The ocean is not rising. The atmosphere is not warming, The oceans are not warming. There is no breakout in 'cane activity. There is only

THE DELIBERATE MISINTERPRETATION OF THE URBAN HEAT SINK EFFECT on the SURFACE GROUND TEMPERATURE SERIES...

the only temperature series that shows warming in the raw data...

 

[RollingThunder]

CHERRY PICKING, FUDGING, and outright FRAUD.

Yup! That's all you ever post, all right, LaDumbshit.

FUDGING - taking highly correlated satellite and balloon data showing no warming in the atmosphere and fudging both with uncorrelated "corrections" to show "warming"

Your denier cult insanity runs deep, LaDumbshit, as anyone reading your demented posts immediately notices.

In the real world....

Climate Deniers’ Favorite Temperature Dataset Just Confirmed Global Warming
ClimateProgress
BY Dr. JOE ROMM
MAR 2, 2016
(excerpts)
February smashed monthly global temperature records, according to the satellite dataanalyzed by the University of Alabama at Huntsville (UAH). Climate science deniers need a new meme to replace their “satellites find no warming since 1998” talking point, which replaced the “there’s been no warming since 1998” talking point after that one fell apart when 2014 became the hottest year on record -- and again when 2015 blew away the 2014 record. In fact, for those who live in reality, as opposed to in denial, satellite data, ground-based weather stations, sea-based buoys, and even weather balloons all reveal a steady long-term warming trend. Let’s start with the UAH data, which show a stunning 1.5°F (0.83°C) warming in February 2016 compared to the historical (1981-2010) average for the lower troposphere (the lowest part of the atmosphere):

The lower tropospheric temperature (LT) anomaly, via UAH scientist Roy Spencer.

How amazing is this temperature jump? First off, remember that the 1981-2010 baseline used by the UAH is itself some 0.8°F (0.45°C) hotter than pre-industrial levels -- so you can add that to all of the numbers here. Second, February was more than half a degree Fahrenheit -- 0.52°F (0.29°C) -- warmer than January, which itself was “the warmest January in satellite record.” Third, it was so hot last month that Dr. Roy Spencer of the UAH reports, “Incredibly, land areas outside the tropics in the Northern Hemisphere were a 'whopping' 1.46 degrees C above average, 0.5 degrees above any previous monthly anomaly.” This is a 2.6°F warming above the 1981-2010 average -- topping the previous anomaly by 0.9°F. Fourth, it was so hot last month that Spencer -- one of country’s leading climate science deniers -- told the Washington Post: "I’ve always cautioned fellow skeptics that it’s dangerous to claim no warming. There has been warming." The UAH’s Spencer and Dr. John Christy — both leading deniers -- reported just last month that the UAH data shows a “Global climate trend since Nov. 16, 1978 [of] +0.12 C [0.22F] per decade.”

Lower atmospheric warming over land outside of the tropics (vs. the 1981-2020 average) via UAH scientist Roy Spencer.

FRAUD - the three Pacific Island chains are "sinking" because of rising sea level caused by "warming" by CO2, nevermind all three are right on the lip of the Pacific Ring of Fire, or the fact that no other island on the planet is "sinking...."

Total bullshit, you clueless denier cult troll.

The Marshall Islands Are Disappearing
The New York Times
Dec 1, 2015

Seychelles Sinks As Climate Change Advances
NPR
September 22, 2010

Pacific islands fighting for survival as sea levels rise
Japan Times
BY JOHN VIDAL
Sept 6, 2013
(excerpts)
LONDON – Pacific islanders challenged world leaders this week to act on climate change, warning that their low-lying atolls are close to becoming uninhabitable because of rising seas and increasingly severe floods, droughts and storm surges. “The Pacific is fighting for its survival. Climate change has already arrived,” said Christopher Loeak, president of the Marshall Islands. The Marshall Islands, a group of 29 atolls and coral islands standing on average only two meters above sea level, and lying halfway between Australia and Hawaii, is particularly vulnerable to climate change. Many other small island Pacific “microstates,” including the Solomons, Tuvalu and the Carteret Islands, have all suffered rapid erosion, higher tides, storm surges and inundation of wells with seawater. Earlier this year Kiribati’s president, Anote Tong, predicted his country was likely to become uninhabitable because of inundation and contamination of its freshwater supplies.

EU climate commissioner Connie Hedegaard pledged last week to support the Pacific island states at the summit. “These low-lying islands risk being swamped by rising sea levels and their inhabitants forced to emigrate. Weather extremes in the Pacific are not about a distant future. They have become the new normal. Heat waves, floods, droughts and rising oceans are the new reality of an ever warming world."

 

[jc456]

CHERRY PICKING, FUDGING, and outright FRAUD.

Yup! That's all you ever post, all right, LaDumbshit.

FUDGING - taking highly correlated satellite and balloon data showing no warming in the atmosphere and fudging both with uncorrelated "corrections" to show "warming"

Your denier cult insanity runs deep, LaDumbshit, as anyone reading your demented posts immediately notices.

In the real world....

Climate Deniers’ Favorite Temperature Dataset Just Confirmed Global Warming
ClimateProgress
BY Dr. JOE ROMM
MAR 2, 2016
(excerpts)
February smashed monthly global temperature records, according to the satellite dataanalyzed by the University of Alabama at Huntsville (UAH). Climate science deniers need a new meme to replace their “satellites find no warming since 1998” talking point, which replaced the “there’s been no warming since 1998” talking point after that one fell apart when 2014 became the hottest year on record -- and again when 2015 blew away the 2014 record. In fact, for those who live in reality, as opposed to in denial, satellite data, ground-based weather stations, sea-based buoys, and even weather balloons all reveal a steady long-term warming trend. Let’s start with the UAH data, which show a stunning 1.5°F (0.83°C) warming in February 2016 compared to the historical (1981-2010) average for the lower troposphere (the lowest part of the atmosphere):

The lower tropospheric temperature (LT) anomaly, via UAH scientist Roy Spencer.

How amazing is this temperature jump? First off, remember that the 1981-2010 baseline used by the UAH is itself some 0.8°F (0.45°C) hotter than pre-industrial levels -- so you can add that to all of the numbers here. Second, February was more than half a degree Fahrenheit -- 0.52°F (0.29°C) -- warmer than January, which itself was “the warmest January in satellite record.” Third, it was so hot last month that Dr. Roy Spencer of the UAH reports, “Incredibly, land areas outside the tropics in the Northern Hemisphere were a 'whopping' 1.46 degrees C above average, 0.5 degrees above any previous monthly anomaly.” This is a 2.6°F warming above the 1981-2010 average -- topping the previous anomaly by 0.9°F. Fourth, it was so hot last month that Spencer -- one of country’s leading climate science deniers -- told the Washington Post: "I’ve always cautioned fellow skeptics that it’s dangerous to claim no warming. There has been warming." The UAH’s Spencer and Dr. John Christy — both leading deniers -- reported just last month that the UAH data shows a “Global climate trend since Nov. 16, 1978 [of] +0.12 C [0.22F] per decade.”

Lower atmospheric warming over land outside of the tropics (vs. the 1981-2020 average) via UAH scientist Roy Spencer.

FRAUD - the three Pacific Island chains are "sinking" because of rising sea level caused by "warming" by CO2, nevermind all three are right on the lip of the Pacific Ring of Fire, or the fact that no other island on the planet is "sinking...."

Total bullshit, you clueless denier cult troll.

The Marshall Islands Are Disappearing
The New York Times
Dec 1, 2015

Seychelles Sinks As Climate Change Advances
NPR
September 22, 2010

Pacific islands fighting for survival as sea levels rise
Japan Times
BY JOHN VIDAL
Sept 6, 2013
(excerpts)
LONDON – Pacific islanders challenged world leaders this week to act on climate change, warning that their low-lying atolls are close to becoming uninhabitable because of rising seas and increasingly severe floods, droughts and storm surges. “The Pacific is fighting for its survival. Climate change has already arrived,” said Christopher Loeak, president of the Marshall Islands. The Marshall Islands, a group of 29 atolls and coral islands standing on average only two meters above sea level, and lying halfway between Australia and Hawaii, is particularly vulnerable to climate change. Many other small island Pacific “microstates,” including the Solomons, Tuvalu and the Carteret Islands, have all suffered rapid erosion, higher tides, storm surges and inundation of wells with seawater. Earlier this year Kiribati’s president, Anote Tong, predicted his country was likely to become uninhabitable because of inundation and contamination of its freshwater supplies.

EU climate commissioner Connie Hedegaard pledged last week to support the Pacific island states at the summit. “These low-lying islands risk being swamped by rising sea levels and their inhabitants forced to emigrate. Weather extremes in the Pacific are not about a distant future. They have become the new normal. Heat waves, floods, droughts and rising oceans are the new reality of an ever warming world."

this still doesn't answer why ice melts in the arctic and not in the antarctic. Why is this since CO2 is the same above both? Let's stay on topic if you don't mind.

 

[LaDexter]

This individual is a terrible example of just how right Joseph Goebbels was...

The Marshall Islands are sinking. (Some) Pacific Islands are sinking.... and this totally retarded individual cannot figure out WHY just three (or a couple more) island chains in the Pacific are sinking but nothing else is... even though there is an entire thread explaining that in this forum.

Also in this forum are 100 different posts by me linking the truth of 2005, that the highly correlated satellite and balloon data showing precisely no warming in the atmosphere was fudged with two uncorrelated "corrections." The satellites had an "orbit wobble" and the balloon thermometers were just wrong.... because without warming in the atmosphere, the tippys are outed completely...

Anyway, let's try this one...

Do you know what the Pacific Ring of Fire is???

 

[LaDexter]

"this still doesn't answer why ice melts in the arctic and not in the antarctic. Why is this since CO2 is the same above both? Let's stay on topic if you don't mind."


This particular double yellowhead seems to think we are impressed by an endless number of fudge charts and easily discredited links. Indeed, not only is the Antarctic Sea Ice growing, but 90% of Earth ice on Antarctica has added at least 80 billion tons of ice every year since Algore started lying about CO2...

 

[RollingThunder]

This individual is a terrible example of just how right Joseph Goebbels was...

Yeah....everybody noticed that about you as soon as you started to pump out your deranged and very fraudulent propaganda memes and denier cult lies, LaDumbshit. And you're right that you are terrible at it too, especially compared to your hero, Herr Goebbels, who would be ashamed of your pathetically stupid and easily debunked lies.

The Marshall Islands are sinking. (Some) Pacific Islands are sinking.... and this totally retarded individual cannot figure out WHY just three (or a couple more) island chains in the Pacific are sinking but nothing else is...

Actually, little retard, most coastal locales around the world are indeed experiencing the first indications of sea level rise.....some more than others.

Global and European sea-level rise
European Environment Agency
Global mean sea level (GMSL) has risen by 19 cm from 1901 to 2013 at an average rate of 1.7 mm/year. There has been significant decadal variation of the rate of increase but an acceleration is detectable over this period. The rate of sea level rise over the last two decades, when satellite measurements have been available, is higher at 3.2 mm/year. Most coastal regions in Europe have experienced an increase in absolute sea level as well as in sea level relative to land, but there is significant regional variation. Extreme high coastal water levels have increased at many locations around the European coastline. This increase appears to be predominantly due to increases in mean local sea level at most locations rather than to changes in storm activity.

Is Sea Level Rising?
NOAA
Yes, there is strong evidence that global sea level gradually rose in the 20th century and is currently rising at an increased rate, after a period of little change between AD 0 and AD 1900. Sea level is projected to rise at an even greater rate in this century. The two major causes of global sea level rise are thermal expan- sion of the oceans (water expands as it warms) and the loss of land-based ice due to increased melting.

Recurrence flooding in Miami Beach as an indicator of accelerating rates of sea level rise along the US Atlantic coast
Authors: Wdowinski, S.; Bray, R. L.; Kirtman, B. P.; Wu, Z.
American Geophysical Union - abstract #OS33C-1089



(Global sea level rise since 1870. Image source: Dr. James Hansen.)

Also in this forum are 100 different posts by me....

....all of which are utter crap, unsupported claims, pathetic lies and retarded nonsense.

 

[RollingThunder]

Greenland is not melting. Antarctica is not melting. The ocean is not rising. The atmosphere is not warming, The oceans are not warming. There is no breakout in 'cane activity.

In the real world, all of that is indeed occurring. Greenland and Antarctica ARE melting; sea levels around the world ARE rising; the atmosphere and the oceans ARE warming; tropical cyclones ARE getting more intense.

Only reality-challenged denier cult retards like you claim otherwise, LaDumbshit,

 

[jc456]

Greenland is not melting. Antarctica is not melting. The ocean is not rising. The atmosphere is not warming, The oceans are not warming. There is no breakout in 'cane activity.

In the real world, all of that is indeed occurring. Greenland and Antarctica ARE melting; sea levels around the world ARE rising; the atmosphere and the oceans ARE warming; tropical cyclones ARE getting more intense.

Only reality-challenged denier cult retards like you claim otherwise, LaDumbshit,

Except you have no evidence so more fraudulent posts. Liar, liar,...dododododo!